Suicide can make sense for young people, too, if there are strong signs the person will suffer for their life. Also, the important thing is for them to be aware of the risks in terms of the consequences of a failed attempt.
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AndyCurious
Warlock
- Sep 13, 2018
- 707
Well said :)
LiveSlowDieFast
Specialist
- Nov 14, 2018
- 338
You mean like an echo chamber? I understand what you mean, although in my personal opinion I'd say people here are relatively level-headed in that regard at least compared to other sites like this.
couldnt agree more; sites like this are a blessing. But I don't think that everybody who is looking into suicide has tried to get help. Most probably have, but what if that's not the case? I guess a community like this can also give a lot of support, maybe in all sorts of directions.
Rose
ad finitum
- Nov 11, 2018
- 96
Plenty of people are in the shit before 25. I'd starve or freeze to death, and have to endure constant mental suffering (which has been proven to be extremely treatment resistant) before I reached an arbitrary mark like that.
I agree that in some cases CTB is not the proper decision to make, and while brain development can factor into this, it's definitely not the only thing at play. Plenty of people are horrible at decision making past having a fully developed brain, and plenty of people are better than average beforehand. We cannot be lumping people into groups like this if we want to minimize damage & suffering.
CTB shouldn't be encouraged, but it should be allowed to be considered. Everything is subjective, that includes suffering. Because of this, I see no value in youth or "life yet to be lived" in this context.
A death by CTB is a tragedy because the person felt like it was the only way out. There is no difference between a thought-out CTB at a young age and the same at an old age. Both serve to avoid pain.
We should seek to help those that have easily fixed problems get out of them, yes. We also shouldn't tell people they're making the wrong decision based on age alone. People in all age groups CTB when there can be better options, so we should be trying our best to support everyone the same, no matter what the decision ends up being in the end.
(also we have to keep in mind intense problems before your brain is fully developed can, well, develop into even worse ones in that time. Same thing with situations.)
I agree that in some cases CTB is not the proper decision to make, and while brain development can factor into this, it's definitely not the only thing at play. Plenty of people are horrible at decision making past having a fully developed brain, and plenty of people are better than average beforehand. We cannot be lumping people into groups like this if we want to minimize damage & suffering.
CTB shouldn't be encouraged, but it should be allowed to be considered. Everything is subjective, that includes suffering. Because of this, I see no value in youth or "life yet to be lived" in this context.
A death by CTB is a tragedy because the person felt like it was the only way out. There is no difference between a thought-out CTB at a young age and the same at an old age. Both serve to avoid pain.
We should seek to help those that have easily fixed problems get out of them, yes. We also shouldn't tell people they're making the wrong decision based on age alone. People in all age groups CTB when there can be better options, so we should be trying our best to support everyone the same, no matter what the decision ends up being in the end.
(also we have to keep in mind intense problems before your brain is fully developed can, well, develop into even worse ones in that time. Same thing with situations.)
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15dec
ember in the dark
- Dec 7, 2018
- 1,550
Yeah, I'd like to think the community here doesn't encourage anyone to ctb but just makes sure they're aware of the risks and how to reduce them, etc. The percentage of people who haven't tried to get help is probably very slim. I'd like to encourage people here to try to access treatment but since most people are here to find out how to ctb I'm not sure if it's helpful, sadly enough
Jen Erik
-
- Oct 12, 2018
- 637
"we need an honest discussion". to what end?
NoOneKnows
Specialist
- Sep 12, 2018
- 323
I think if you commit crime as 18+ year old, yuo will be tried and potentially put in jail like an adult. Not to say if you are livingi n abusive household as a child, you grow up much more faster than yr peers, brain development doesnt follow the standards
Rose
ad finitum
- Nov 11, 2018
- 96
The best we can do is tell them that getting help is an option.
We have to keep in mind individual capabilities when it comes to exhausting all options as well. Some people try their hardest to fix things and it doesn't look like they're trying at all. It's definitely tragic when it seems someone could have easily fixed their issues, but ultimately it's all subjective. Something that one person could easily handle can be completely crushing for another, no matter how simple it seems from the external pov.
What I'm saying is we can never know for sure, and all we can do is make sure people understand their options. CTB and otherwise.
Severen
Enlightened
- Jun 30, 2018
- 1,819
You don't know what kind of problems they have though...
ChickenAndPotatoes
Veteran Veteran
- Nov 8, 2018
- 137
What about people who have gone through harsh child abuse growing up. I did. I was abused (naked and clothed belt whippings, molested tongue in mouth kissing and almost raped, cussed at and threatened) by both parents. There are parents who are concerned only with themselves, etc. and don't care at all about their children.
There should be no age requirement.
There should be no age requirement.
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NumbItAll
expendable
- May 20, 2018
- 1,116
I think it is absolutely sick to bring someone into a painful existence and then prevent them from leaving because of some misguided notion of "wisdom." Everyone is so full of shit.
Rose
ad finitum
- Nov 11, 2018
- 96
I agree with this. The loss of potential to live a good life doesn't stack up at all to the loss of potential to bear even more intense suffering & have everything get worse.
You may be unable to undo CTB, but you're also going to be unable to regret it. It sets everything to 0.
I see this under and over 25 rubbish as no different to a pro lifer saying all people who CTB are irrational. No offence OP. Just because the brain doesnt fully mature untill a certain point dkes not mean that all choices made from that point on including suicide are rational. Its sad but young people are incresingly taking their own lives because they can not bare years of tourment they have already been through and the possibility of it not stopping. Just like us above 25 cant bare the pain we have already endured and the possibility of it continuing. We are the same regardless of our years. Support for all suicidal people thats what we need not to alienate those under 25 so they cant speak out and possibly CTB anyway
Angst Filled Fuck Up
Visionary
- Sep 9, 2018
- 2,985
I would rather just PM the OP with my life circumstances so that he can make an informed decision and give me the green light only if he sees fit. Good grief.
GreenLantern
John Stewart
- Nov 18, 2018
- 129
But you can't just up and leave the army whenever you want. You have to wait until they discharge you. Sometimes in times of war (like now), they will even keep you past your contract/date of discharge.
Severen
Enlightened
- Jun 30, 2018
- 1,819
The way I see it is, if you are suffering and can't take it anymore and you are 100% positive, it won't get better, then it's best to CTB, no matter your age. But of course, you shouldn't just jump to the conclusion it won't get better. You should do your research. And sometimes, depression interferes with your ability to figure out if it won't get better or not. So make sure, your head is clear, first.
GreenLantern
John Stewart
- Nov 18, 2018
- 129
If we're going to have an age limit, it certainly should not be as high as 25! Yes it is true that the brain isn't fully developed untl that age, but lots people have hard lives and endure bad shit long before that. And it still takes awhile to get to that age. I'm well over 25 and to this day, one of the worst experiences I've had in life was in my teens.
If there's going to be any age limit, it should be 18. I do have a lot of empathy for kids and teens going through any kind of suffering that may be suicidal, especially if it's at the hands of other people and you don't have a lot of power at that age. If a person is considered a legal adult that can do most things, they should be able to make the decision to ctb to if that's what they want to do. Considering how hard childhood is for some people, the least people can do is let them ctb as soon as they are an adult.
Also I don't like it when people condescend toward young (or young looking) people. Ageism against the young is hardly ever discussed in society. People like to beat up on young people and tell them you can't do this, you can't do that, you're not good enough for this, or smart enough for that, or I'm better than you at this, by virtue of me being older. That's not cool, and it's often untrue. If anything people should be trying to encourage and uplift young people rather than beating them down.
If there's going to be any age limit, it should be 18. I do have a lot of empathy for kids and teens going through any kind of suffering that may be suicidal, especially if it's at the hands of other people and you don't have a lot of power at that age. If a person is considered a legal adult that can do most things, they should be able to make the decision to ctb to if that's what they want to do. Considering how hard childhood is for some people, the least people can do is let them ctb as soon as they are an adult.
Also I don't like it when people condescend toward young (or young looking) people. Ageism against the young is hardly ever discussed in society. People like to beat up on young people and tell them you can't do this, you can't do that, you're not good enough for this, or smart enough for that, or I'm better than you at this, by virtue of me being older. That's not cool, and it's often untrue. If anything people should be trying to encourage and uplift young people rather than beating them down.
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I first attempted to CTB when I was just barely 15. Here I am now, 49, again attempting/considering CTB.
For anyone here above X age to declare that someone below X age does not have the foresight to rationally CTB is the height of "do as I say, not as I do" hypocricy. Are we not, by seeking to do exactly as they would do, proving that their youthful exploration of the decision to CTB is showing perspicacity beyond their age?
Yes, the human brain is in a different state of development below a certain age. Yes, a person gains perspective as one ages, and the younger a person is the fewer options other than CTB they might see. But pain is not age-dependant. Nor is clearheadedness. Nor is rationality. And there's a reason for the truism, "Out of the mouths of babes oft times come gems of truth."
No one here wants to see anyone else die, least of all those who are just starting their lives. But we can't see anyone's situation other than our own, and it doesn't matter anyone's age, the paternalism of solipsistic ignorance is out of place on a forum dedicated to individual freedom of choice.
I would —and have— counsel anyone, regardless of age, to examine all other options before CTB. I think that is part of my responsibility as a compassionate human. But I also must accept the imperative of free choice, and if an individual has made their choice to CTB, compassion also demands I offer what knowledge I have to help ensure their death is as gentle and peaceful as possible.
And compassion should never be age-dependant.
For anyone here above X age to declare that someone below X age does not have the foresight to rationally CTB is the height of "do as I say, not as I do" hypocricy. Are we not, by seeking to do exactly as they would do, proving that their youthful exploration of the decision to CTB is showing perspicacity beyond their age?
Yes, the human brain is in a different state of development below a certain age. Yes, a person gains perspective as one ages, and the younger a person is the fewer options other than CTB they might see. But pain is not age-dependant. Nor is clearheadedness. Nor is rationality. And there's a reason for the truism, "Out of the mouths of babes oft times come gems of truth."
No one here wants to see anyone else die, least of all those who are just starting their lives. But we can't see anyone's situation other than our own, and it doesn't matter anyone's age, the paternalism of solipsistic ignorance is out of place on a forum dedicated to individual freedom of choice.
I would —and have— counsel anyone, regardless of age, to examine all other options before CTB. I think that is part of my responsibility as a compassionate human. But I also must accept the imperative of free choice, and if an individual has made their choice to CTB, compassion also demands I offer what knowledge I have to help ensure their death is as gentle and peaceful as possible.
And compassion should never be age-dependant.
You can't regret a successful suicide, but you can regret not trying.
About the young age.
For myself i am 36 and going to ctb.
But about this sort of issue, only thing us all that are older than 25 or 30 whatever.
Just dont encourage them try to talk when you do notice they are young, but talk about there is more than this.
Just to help out keep it positive with them.
For myself i am 36 and going to ctb.
But about this sort of issue, only thing us all that are older than 25 or 30 whatever.
Just dont encourage them try to talk when you do notice they are young, but talk about there is more than this.
Just to help out keep it positive with them.
I'm 21. I'm old enough to drink alcohol, am considered a legal adult in every country, can go to war, etc. I'm old enough to ctb.
ChickenAndPotatoes
Veteran Veteran
- Nov 8, 2018
- 137
Also, people in Syria, the Gaza strip, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan. Look at pictures of war. Look at the effects of the dropping of white phosphorous on Palestinians in Gaza. Wars, kidnappings, governments firing on peaceful protesters. It seems quite a few of us are from countries that war on home soil isn't a regularity. All of these people in wartorn countries that have PTSD, etc. Servicemembers who fought in Vietnam. All young people. And lots of children killed too. So suicide can't really be just for old folks when you live in a crumpled, bombed out village/town and you've seen people killed.
Kuba
God still keeps me in life
- Dec 4, 2018
- 28
silentinbetween
Member
- Apr 30, 2018
- 44
I am also 17, and sometimes I think about this issue too. I do wonder if maybe if I held out it will all get better and magically fix itself. But the fact remains that I've been miserable since the 4th grade, and every year gets worse and worse. Every person I connect to and trust hurts me again and again and it honestly feels like some deity is sending me good experiences only to rip them away and stomp on my pathetic hopes, if that makes sense lol. Because of the worry that I am being too hasty, I've set my deadline to 20, an arbitrary number that appeals to me for some irrational reason. But I'm tempted every day to CTB.
I don't think there can be a solution to this issue, both in making a decision and on enforcement. People and their experiences differ so vastly that to make a blanket statement about maturity just seems irrational. And the fact remains that no matter what people's opinions are on suicide and age, young people are going to kill themselves.
I don't think there can be a solution to this issue, both in making a decision and on enforcement. People and their experiences differ so vastly that to make a blanket statement about maturity just seems irrational. And the fact remains that no matter what people's opinions are on suicide and age, young people are going to kill themselves.
I wish i was 17 dude best time of life up to 24. But life goes differently for everyone.
Just try profesional help first and check your friends maybe you need different people around you. Things do change fast in the age range.
Red star
Experienced
- Sep 15, 2018
- 206
It's hard to say cause I was actively trying to ctb at those ages too. Telling me not to because of x y z wouldn't of made a difference. If my needs were being met that would mean more to me than advice.
ChemicallyCalm
Nothing Special
- Nov 24, 2018
- 55
If they have tried everything and have reasons for wanting to ctb then I'll accept that any day of the week.
What if a 17 year old is in an abusive household and has no possibility of ever leaving? They just have to suffer for 8 more years until they can finally die? Sorry but that's crazy.
What if a 17 year old is in an abusive household and has no possibility of ever leaving? They just have to suffer for 8 more years until they can finally die? Sorry but that's crazy.
My only regret is not ctb when I was younger. If someone has a problem with younger users on here, just don't reply to their posts or give them advice.
IMO 25 is still young, you get less likely to ctb if you're older than 30. But for me personally, I don't think it would have been a mistake if I caught the bus at like 20, that was when my life went to shit and it's been shit ever since. You can never know when life gets better or worse. You can be 18 and there can be happy adventures waiting for you or just loneliness and mental hospital trips. Everyone should seek help anyway, but if it doesn't help, what else can one do?
