War has started

[Arvinneedstodie]

I'd really appreciate any reasonable suggestions on what should I do now, as I cannot think straight at all.

It's so awful hearing what you just mentioned. I feel so fking spoiled right now and also really fking useless. Please stay safe, stay tuned to what's happening form multiple sources if you can. Do you have any backup plans? Maybe it's best if you have some plans of where to go and where to find help if things do get worse. From the media that I'm seeing here in America are reporting that there are refugees already streaming into Poland and the borders are open for anyone who wishes to seek refuge or passage. I have seen mentions of NGOs within Ukraine that are organizing and helping people flee Ukraine. IDK your situation, but it's best to know a way out.

Please keep us up to date, that's important that first account info from the grounds are getting out. There are lots of people on here and all over the internet keeping close attention to what's happening, and lots of people are listening and rooting for Ukrainians.

 

[forgotten15]

i live in Poland, next to Ukraine. i'm trying to buy sn asap. if russia attacks us i'm catching that bus

I also live near Ukraine and honestly I had the same reaction. Having sn feels so relieving. I hope you get yours soon if this is what you want.

 

[Grey-zoner]

As other posters have noted, it looks like Russia will try to depose the government and probably annex more territory. This is bringing considerable sanctions on Russia and its economy, but it won't stop Putin (he has a big friend in Xi either way). Maybe China will get to finance Russia's economy for the next few years and get them heavily in debt.
I hope our Ukrainian members will keep us updated on their conditions. Stay safe. Let us know how you're doing.

 

[Arvinneedstodie]

As awful as the situation is in Ukraine right now, there are so good news! Many Russian people are protesting on the streets of Moscow, Saint Petersburg and all over the Russia right now. There are livestreams of people chanting anti war anti Putin slogans while the police move in to contain them. I hope at the end of all of this the democratic world and the free world will finally stop the infighting and unite against Putin and Xi. The rules based liberal world order is not perfect but it sure as hell beats the authoritarian ethno-nationalist alternative that Putin and Xi want to offer the world.

 

[motel rooms]

Yeah, I just feel like Russia's going to incorporate the Russian-populated part of Ukraine and the US isn't going to stop until every person is Western Ukraine is eating Big Macs with BLM fists and rainbow flags on them. I'm completely pessimistic about the possibility of Ukraine just being Ukrainian.

You're wrong, Putin wants to control all of Ukraine, he wants a fully pro-Russian Ukrainian government & president. All of this started in 2014 when Ukraine turned its back on him/Russia & dared to look to the EU for the first time. Watch Putin's speech, he said that Russia & Ukraine are one (Russian) nation, that Ukraine is incapable of self-governance & that it must be denazified. To him, a Ukrainian who refuses to be Russian is a fucking Nazi... Should Ukraine join NATO? Absolutely not, that would be extremely unwise. Should it be allowed to make the decision to join the EU? Yes. Finland is an EU member state that isn't a NATO member because it borders Russia.

 

[Nolan96]

You're wrong, Putin wants to control all of Ukraine, he wants a fully pro-Russian Ukrainian government & president. All of this started in 2014 when Ukraine turned its back on him/Russia & dared to look to the EU for the first time. Watch Putin's speech, he said that Russia & Ukraine are one (Russian) nation, that Ukraine is incapable of self-governance & that it must be denazified. To him, a Ukrainian who refuses to be Russian is a fucking Nazi... Should Ukraine join NATO? Absolutely not, that would be extremely unwise. Should it be allowed to make the decision to join the EU? Yes. Finland is an EU member state that isn't a NATO member because it borders Russia.

Calling everyone who doesn't acquiesce fully to you a Nazi and using that as a justification to do anything you want to them?
Wow Putin's been reading the American handbook!

Like I said in my original post, I personally see no reason to prefer the EU over Russia, so all I see is hypocrisy in a lot of people attacking Putin while praising EU expansionism and denying Eastern Ukrainians the right to decide which country they want to be a part of.

 

[hungry_ghost]

Some guy has an interesting theory that this is Putin destroying US-installed biolabs in the Ukraine, in an attempt to stop the US from releasing another bioweapon.

There is some weird political connection between the US and Ukraine, including Biden, Pelosi, Kerry, and some other politician I can't remember having children who work in Ukraine.

 

[motel rooms]

Like I said in my original post, I personally see no reason to prefer the EU over Russia, so all I see is hypocrisy in a lot of people attacking Putin while praising EU expansionism and denying Eastern Ukrainians the right to decide which country they want to be a part of.

Hahaha... A gay guy sees no difference between the EU & Russia. Well, if I held you by the hand & kissed you in the middle of a Russian town, we'd both get arrested for public indecency & promotion of perversity. If you're a journalist critical of a European leader, you don't get poisoned or thrown out the window. Also, in case you didn't know this, the average Russian is quite poor: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47800419

As for EU expansionism, it isn't easy to qualify for EU membership (many countries have gotten rejected many times) & you're perfectly free to leave the union. Ask someone from the Baltic countries, Poland, Hungary or Romania if they'd like to put their neck under the Russian boot again & if their country's economy is in better shape than when it joined the EU.

Some guy has an interesting theory that this is Putin destroying US-installed biolabs in the Ukraine, in an attempt to stop the US from releasing another bioweapon.
There is some weird political connection between the US and Ukraine, including Biden, Pelosi, Kerry, and some other politician I can't remember having children who work in Ukraine.

Really, Pashenyka? Maybe there's some weird connection between that interesting theory & your Russian name.

 

[omoidarui]

altho i identify left, now would have been a pretty good time to have trump as pres

 

[Nolan96]

Hahaha... A gay guy sees no difference between the EU & Russia. Well, if I held you by the hand & kissed you in the middle of a Russian town, we'd both get arrested for public indecency & promotion of perversity. If you're a journalist critical of a European leader, you don't get poisoned or thrown out the window. Also, in case you didn't know this, the average Russian is quite poor: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47800419

As for EU expansionism, it isn't easy to qualify for EU membership (many countries have gotten rejected many times) & you're perfectly free to leave the union. Ask someone from the Baltic countries, Poland, Hungary or Romania if they'd like to put their neck under the Russian boot again & if their country's economy is in better shape than when it joined the EU.

The anti-gay stuff in Russia does scare me since I'm gay of course.

In general, I definitely doubt that freedom of expression is more valued in the US than in Russia though. Just different taboos.

I won't pretend to know a whole lot about economics, although I don't like communism and I'm glad Russia's moved on (mostly?) from that.

In the US, we're taught that we and Western Europe are 100% solely responsible for all the poverty and societal problems in all the economically struggling countries in the world and should feel very guilty about that. Except Russia. Because Russia is the enemy. Even though we've done more to directly disrupt their economy than just about any other country's.
Sinister bold-faced hypocrisy.

 

[motel rooms]

altho i identify left, now would have been a pretty good time to have trump as pres

Wot?

 

[Judah]

View attachment 164571909831.mp4
Sumy becomes the first provincial capital to fall to Russia

Rescuers finished dismantling the rubble in the town of Lipetsk, Odessa region, where Russia hit a military unit 22 people were declared dead - 11 men and 11 women 6 people rescued from the rubble and taken to hospital
View attachment 164572113925.mp4
Hundreds of people in many Russian cities protest against the war in Ukraine
View attachment 164572170236.mp4
Kadyrov's Chechen troops arrive in Ukraine
View attachment 164572569319.mp4
First video of Russians in Chernobyl

 

[WrongPlaceWrongTime]

As awful as the situation is in Ukraine right now, there are so good news! Many Russian people are protesting on the streets of Moscow, Saint Petersburg and all over the Russia right now. There are livestreams of people chanting anti war anti Putin slogans while the police move in to contain them. I hope at the end of all of this the democratic world and the free world will finally stop the infighting and unite against Putin and Xi. The rules based liberal world order is not perfect but it sure as hell beats the authoritarian ethno-nationalist alternative that Putin and Xi want to offer the world.

Maybe there's the chance that since if there is lack of popular support in Russia for the invasion, combined with Ukraine resisting hard enough, then Putin might call it quits. I'm likely describing an over-idealistic scenario here though, so take it with a grain of salt

 

[omoidarui]

actually it's exactly this weird erracticness in the things trump says that makes him unpredictable as a foe an makes me feel slightly safer even if only superficially "rUsSia will nEver do this if im in charge….." (but actually my comment was in half-jest because i realise there's also an amount of fear to be had and a potential war just by having an idiot like that in the White House lol)

 

[motel rooms]

I won't pretend to know a whole lot about economics, although I don't like communism and I'm glad Russia's moved on (mostly?) from that.

In the US, we're taught that we and Western Europe are 100% solely responsible for all the poverty and societal problems in all the economically struggling countries in the world and should feel very guilty about that. Except Russia. Because Russia is the enemy. Even though we've done more to directly disrupt their economy than just about any other country's. Sinister bold-faced hypocrisy.

Listen, you're deeply critical of the West with good reason, but downplaying the fact that Putin is an imperialist autocrat who poisons everyone who criticizes him & keeps his subjects in abject poverty while ruling the largest, unbelievably resource-rich country in the world is just plain silly. I'm disgusted with American & European hypocrisy too, but Russia is poor because it's a corrupt dictatorship where the rule of law is not respected & where people are treated like medieval serfs forced to bribe even the DMV clerks to get a damn driving license issued. Also, is it possible you haven't heard of the infamous Russian oligarchs & the Russian mob? Most Russians had a higher standard of living during the miserable '70s & '80s in the Soviet Union than they do today...

 

[Istanbulite]

Any Russian SSers? How is the mood in the country?

 

[motel rooms]

Any Russian SSers? How is the mood in the country?

Most people are celebrating Russia's victory.

 

[hungry_ghost]

Really, Pashenyka? Maybe there's some weird connection between that interesting theory & your Russian name.

It's not my real name. Pascha = passover in the Eastern Christian world, which is what it means to me.

I'm not affirming or denying it. But there tends to be esoteric agendas behind anything big that happens in the world, and then we usually only find out later.

Also, the truth is stranger than fiction. Given the things I've learned the past 7 years, I put nothing past anything or anyone.

 

[Istanbulite]

Most people are celebrating Russia's victory.

Are you Russian? I didn't get it? What victory?

 

[Nolan96]

Listen, you're deeply critical of the West with good reason, but downplaying the fact that Putin is an imperialist autocrat who poisons everyone who criticizes him & keeps his subjects in abject poverty while ruling the largest, unbelievably resource-rich country in the world is just plain silly. I'm disgusted with American & European hypocrisy too, but Russia is poor because it's a corrupt dictatorship where the rule of law is not respected & where people are treated like medieval serfs forced to bribe even the DMV clerks to get a damn driving license issued. Also, is it possible you haven't heard of the infamous Russian oligarchs & the Russian mob? Most Russians had a higher standard of living during the miserable '70s & '80s in the Soviet Union than they do today...

Am I anti-West or anti-American? I guess I see American society as being dominated by incredibly horrible people who themselves frequently identify as anti-West and anti-American. So if I'm anti-them, what does that make me? It all gets very complicated.

I also don't think we should blame ourselves for Russia's problems or for anyone's. I wish we'd stop wallowing in guilt and just try to make the world better in general, including for ourselves.

I hate war and I think it's just absurd that Ukraine and Russia can't find a better way to get along and work out conflicts of interests, considering the fact that they're so similar as peoples that it can be hard to tell the difference.

But as the anti-Russian sentiment swells up, I just don't feel it.

 

[motel rooms]

I guess I see American society as being dominated by incredibly horrible people who themselves frequently identify as anti-West and anti-American.

Don't worry, Trump will be back. I'm repulsed by all extremists, I hate misogynists like him as much as misandrists disguised as feminists.

I hate war and I think it's just absurd that Ukraine and Russia can't find a better way to get along and work out conflicts of interests, considering the fact that they're so similar as peoples that it can be hard to tell the difference.

You still haven't learned that the world is absurd?

But as the anti-Russian sentiment swells up, I just don't feel it.

Maybe you'll feel something when Putin has the Ukrainian president executed on live television.

What victory?

People in Russia are sure Russia's gonna win the war. Who's gonna come to Ukraine's rescue?

 

[Nolan96]

Don't worry, Trump will be back. I'm repulsed by all extremists, I hate misogynists like him as much as misandrists disguised as feminists.



You still haven't learned that the world is absurd?



Maybe you'll feel something when Putin has the Ukrainian president executed on live television.

You seem like you're getting upset and of course that wasn't my intention. I don't like when discussions like this get tense.

The world definitely can be absurd. One person's "extremism" is another's norm. I've seen you say things that would be considered right-wing extremism where I'm from. (And probably some other form of extremism in Russia or wherever else.) I think "extremism" is a term that is often just used to put someone in a box and stop listening to them. Often-times it's the people who pose as the "anti-extremists" who are most hateful, violent, and destructive. I do think that's the case here in the US with the all-powerful "resisters" who hated Trump so much.

I hope things don't get too bad in Ukraine.

 

[motel rooms]

You seem like you're getting upset

I do? I'm just from a very different culture than you.

One person's "extremism" is another's norm. I've seen you say things that would be considered right-wing extremism where I'm from. (And probably some other form of extremism in Russia or wherever else.) I think "extremism" is a term that is often just used to put someone in a box and stop listening to them.

So, there's no such thing as extremism? You're the one who mentioned "incredibly horrible people" & said you were "anti-them". Do you really still listen to those people? I see no point in listening to broken records...

Often-times it's the people who pose as the "anti-extremists" who are most hateful, violent, and destructive.

If they're hateful, violent & destructive, I call them extremists no matter what they call themselves. I don't like LGBTQ+ folks who call all str8 people heteroscum, I don't like women who hate all men, I don't like antiracists who think that all whites are racists.

I do think that's the case here in the US with the all-powerful "resisters" who hated Trump so much.

Like I said, I hate that despicable right-wing rabble-rouser as much as I hate left-wing extremists.

I hope things don't get too bad in Ukraine.

They've been bad for years & they'll stay that way... Russia will never leave Ukraine alone. No amount of thoughts & prayers can change that ugly fact...

 

[Nolan96]

I do? I'm just from a very different culture than you.

Yeah, I do often feel kind of screwed over by basically being a bizarre inversion of the culture that hates and rejects me.

A couple months ago I was chatting online with some gay Republican guy from rural Virginia and within an hour of talking he said to me "You're exactly the sort of over-educated, over-sensitive northern city-dwelling intellectual f****t I despise with every fiber of my body, just a Republican-voting version of one" and blocked me.

He wasn't wrong I guess.

Anyway, I won't keep taking up space in the thread to talk on end about how horrible living in America is or my personal problems. I do hope the Russia vs. US/EU issue doesn't eclipse the humanitarian problems of Ukraine.

 

[motel rooms]

He wasn't wrong I guess.

I get accused of not being gay enough all the time. You're too hairy, you wear boring clothes, you can play basketball, str8 guys don't even know you're gay, you're a misogynist because your penis only reacts to other masc dudes, do you even suck c$#& ? Masc4masc pig!!!

 

[Sunset Limited]

 

[Fragile]

Looks like Ukraine will be fighting alone in this cruel war. It's clear that NATO won't do much about this conflict and the useless sanctions will only strengthen Sino-Russian relations.

A new axis is forming in the east, this is the scariest part about this conflict, the writing is on the wall for many countries.

 

[motel rooms]

Looks like Ukraine will be fighting alone in this cruel war. It's clear that NATO won't do much about this conflict

Does that surprise you?

 

[PreussenBlueJay]

This guy's usually pretty good.



Kinda interesting.

 

[Fragile]

Does that surprise you?

Not at all, what really surprises me is that some people still believe that NATO can and will intervene, which is laughable just from a geographic perspective.

And I wouldn't be surprised if some of those very effective sanctions were quietly lifted in the next few months, Europe is in a precarious situation when it comes to its energy sources, Putin and his cronies can do whatever they want right now, as long as they don't step into NATO's members soil.