Discussion Unhealthy Thinking

[flyingrabbitt]

Does anyone else notice the extremely unhealthy thinking patterns a lot of people on the suicide discussion forum fall into?
I'm specifically talking about the all life is bad and suffering is inevitable type of thinking, which I can't fault people for because I've been there but it's so anti recovery and harmful in the long run because it's only going to force you further into your misery and it's sad to see.

The best thing I ever did for myself was changing how I talk about myself and think about the world, instead of life being bad it's the people who hurt me and made me believe life isn't a gift. Instead of "I'm so stupid" jokes I turned to "I'm actually a genius" jokes which also have the perk of making those around you more comfortable because self deprecation can be draining.

Obligatory disclaimer that this isn't to change anyone's perspective, I'm just hoping to have a discussion from people on all sides of this.

 

[Bunnybrains]

I think it really depends on ur circumstances? I mean if u genuinely believe that ur on some floating rock, one in hundreds of billions of lifeforms ever to exist, the change in mindset isnt going to allow u to do much digging youself out of the situation. "Why bother?"

But if your like me with 20k$ in debt, moving across the world away from your support system, disabled and running out of any ability to tolerate waking up in the morning- a shift in mindset isnt gonna do shit. Where do u think i picked this up? I think alot of ppl in the forum slip into it after waking up for the 3rd year, or the 7th year, or the 25th year of "do i really have to wake up and struggle for nothing? Am i going anywhere in life? Can my loved ones be okay eithout me? Do i have to be in pain forever and eqtch the slow decline of my body via anorexia and congenital disorders?" And it all falls apart on you. Err- it did for me. Im trucking along for other people until i can rest. Can things get better? Yes. Can things change? Of course. Its still not going to fix my brain and body being unmistakably broken. Hey, im here much longer than i though i would be. One upside anyways

 

[flyingrabbitt]

But if your like me with 20k$ in debt, moving across the world away from your support system, disabled and running out of any ability to tolerate waking up in the morning- a shift in mindset isnt gonna do shit. Where do u think i picked this up? I think alot of ppl in the forum slip into it after waking up for the 3rd year, or the 7th year, or the 25th year of "do i really have to wake up and struggle for nothing? Am i going anywhere in life? Can my loved ones be okay eithout me? Do i have to be in pain forever and eqtch the slow decline of my body via anorexia and congenital disorders?" And it all falls apart on you. Err- it did for me. Im trucking along for other people until i can rest. Can things get better? Yes. Can things change? Of course. Its still not going to fix my brain and body being unmistakably broken. Hey, im here much longer than i though i would be. One upside anyways

I'm disabled both physically and mentally to the point I require a caretaker with how low functioning I am and despite all that a change in mindset still improved my mood somewhat, I don't think it's a cure by any means but it does make waking up just a little more bearable, keeps you going a little longer.
This does give insight into why people fall into and stay in that pattern of thinking so thank you, it's very appreciated.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Thinking patterns can have an effect how we see things. Unhealthy thinking doesn't develop from one moment to the other this is a slow process over a long period of time sometimes many years and it so difficult to break it up.

I compare it a bit with the process of "learning" now. When we learn sth there is a program written in the brain so we always remember how to do things and at some point it's very difficult to do things in a different way. So it is with unhealthy thinking patters so many of us are having here (myself included).

They are forming when there is nothing else but "negative experience" over a long period of time (e.g. abuse, failures after failures, no chance to achieve certain goals, health issues and many others). The brain remembers negative experiences better than positive ones especially when the positive ones cannot be reproduced or there are simply not enough positive experiences. At a certain point even small things that would make someone happy don't really have an effect any more because this impuls of happieness is far too weak to activate sth in the brain.

It is so incredibly difficult to break out of this "unhealthy thinking" especially with no help. Yes there cases when people can pull themselves out of it but it's very rare.

The longer someone is trapped in unhealthy thinking the harder it is to get out of this and I also would say that at some point it's almost impossible, that's probably the case for most users here, unfortunately.

 

[LittleJem]

I don't think this view is held by that many people on the forums. I've seen one person repeat this idea and maybe a handful or more who agree.

For those that hold it, it's a bit like a religion. Anti-natalism etc…Buddhism has the same perspective really also…to escape life and suffering.However true it is that suffy/death is inevitable viewing all life as bad is kind of a relgion/perspective.

I think lots of us see people living 'normal' and 'happy' lives. We don't see that as attainable for us, but try and make our lives bearable the best we can.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think it depends largely on whether we want to 'recover'. I think some people find it very difficult to accept that some people are CHOOSING NOT to recover. They don't want 'help', they don't want to change their thinking, they don't want people to challenge their thinking. Some simply don't believe 'recovery' is worth the effort. That may well be because they have convinced themselves that life is ALL bad. Rightly or wrongly- that's their experience of it. They may have already tried 'recovery' but, ended up back in the same place- or- even lower.

I think you have to ask yourself- how self aware do you think people on this forum are? Do you suppose the people in the suicide discussion forum are all UNAWARE of what kind of environment they are in? Do you think many there are 'blinded' by their depression? Perhaps habit? Do you think people are getting sucked in to this pit of despair- or- do you suppose they are choosing to stay there because the posts there resonate with how they see the world already? (And they likely think any other way of seeing it is delussional.)

Do you think people here aren't aware that a shift in their thinking will be vital to 'saving' them? I'd say- the majority in fact ARE aware of that. A HUGE amount of people here I imagine have had some therapy/ read some self help books/ watched some life coaching YouTube videos. I imagine quite a few people in the suicide discussion forum don't feel like forcing themselves to think positively because it likely feels like dishonesty to them. I think a lot of people there don't want to recover or- don't actualy believe in it.

Of course- it's going to depend on their life circumstances and history. Still- you're going to have a hard job of convincing someone who's NEVER enjoyed life to recognize the beauty in it. Some people simply don't have a 'happy' phase to work at getting back.

I don't think people here are stupid- I expect they are aware of how outside stimuli- including this forum affects them. Some people choose to move into the 'recovery' section because they realise they DON'T actually want to CTB just yet. Some leave the forum all together- they recognise that it isn't good for them for where they want to be right now.

I do understand the concerns of it being an 'echo chamber' and so forth. I guess it just depends on how impressionable you believe people are. I'd actually say that a lot of people here have VERY strong opinions on what they believe and what they want. I think generally- they tend to naturally move away from the suicide discussion forum if they feel like it's having a negative influence on them. That's just my opinion though.

 

[Remeer]

Hello, yes I have realized what you say and I agree
Nor is this reality strange in the suicide discussion forum, even in this section and offtopic can be found
I see it as a process, they are going through something that takes time, and in part I think that is the grace of the forum of having two such different sections
also mention what they already mentioned, see if the person is willing to change his attitude, although he does not improve with it, his own relationship with himself can improve
one has also gone through that, being trapped in negativity by the situation in which one lives and not seeing the positive
I really hope that the people on the forum improve
greetings, be well

 

[flyingrabbitt]

I think it depends largely on whether we want to 'recover'. I think some people find it very difficult to accept that some people are CHOOSING NOT to recover. They don't want 'help', they don't want to change their thinking, they don't want people to challenge their thinking. Some simply don't believe 'recovery' is worth the effort. That may well be because they have convinced themselves that life is ALL bad. Rightly or wrongly- that's their experience of it. They may have already tried 'recovery' but, ended up back in the same place- or- even lower.

I'm very aware of these people, I used to be like that a little while back.

I think you have to ask yourself- how self aware do you think people on this forum are? Do you suppose the people in the suicide discussion forum are all UNAWARE of what kind of environment they are in? Do you think many there are 'blinded' by their depression? Perhaps habit? Do you think people are getting sucked in to this pit of despair- or- do you suppose they are choosing to stay there because the posts there resonate with how they see the world already? (And they likely think any other way of seeing it is delussional.)

I think some people definitely are blinded by depression but they're definitely a minority, you can see who is and isn't self aware pretty quickly in most cases and most people here are in my opinion. I do think a lot of people are willingly choosing to stay in this pit of despair, with a minority seeing other ways of thinking as delusional.

Do you think people here aren't aware that a shift in their thinking will be vital to 'saving' them? I'd say- the majority in fact ARE aware of that. A HUGE amount of people here I imagine have had some therapy/ read some self help books/ watched some life coaching YouTube videos. I imagine quite a few people in the suicide discussion forum don't feel like forcing themselves to think positively because it likely feels like dishonesty to them. I think a lot of people there don't want to recover or- don't actualy believe in it.

I know in my case I wasn't aware just how much of a difference it made because I had never in my life been happy so I had nothing to compare to, I imagine this to be the case for a lot of people here just seeing the stories posted by others. If you told me last year recovery was possible I would've laughed in your face and told you not for me because I wholeheartedly believed it wasn't, yet I managed to get up on my own two feet.

Of course- it's going to depend on their life circumstances and history. Still- you're going to have a hard job of convincing someone who's NEVER enjoyed life to recognize the beauty in it. Some people simply don't have a 'happy' phase to work at getting back.

Oh absolutely, I don't expect to change anyones view of the world especially on this forum of all places.

I don't think people here are stupid- I expect they are aware of how outside stimuli- including this forum affects them. Some people choose to move into the 'recovery' section because they realise they DON'T actually want to CTB just yet. Some leave the forum all together- they recognise that it isn't good for them for where they want to be right now.

This is true, I definitely believe people here are smart enough to know when this forum has negative effects but that brings me to my next point.

I do understand the concerns of it being an 'echo chamber' and so forth. I guess it just depends on how impressionable you believe people are. I'd actually say that a lot of people here have VERY strong opinions on what they believe and what they want. I think generally- they tend to naturally move away from the suicide discussion forum if they feel like it's having a negative influence on them. That's just my opinion though.

I assume some people use this forum as a means of self harm, similar to how people use proana forums as self harm. Though I agree with people having very strong opinions on here, I wouldn't stick around if people were very impressionable because there's no real discussion to be had with people who have no solid viewpoint.

Responding to all these has really made me think about how and why people think like this and continue to do so, I guess I also never realised just how much recovery takes to turn to because I had no other choice with it.

 

[audison]

Does anyone else notice the extremely unhealthy thinking patterns a lot of people on the suicide discussion forum fall into?
I'm specifically talking about the all life is bad and suffering is inevitable type of thinking, which I can't fault people for because I've been there but it's so anti recovery and harmful in the long run because it's only going to force you further into your misery and it's sad to see.

The best thing I ever did for myself was changing how I talk about myself and think about the world, instead of life being bad it's the people who hurt me and made me believe life isn't a gift. Instead of "I'm so stupid" jokes I turned to "I'm actually a genius" jokes which also have the perk of making those around you more comfortable because self deprecation can be draining.

Obligatory disclaimer that this isn't to change anyone's perspective, I'm just hoping to have a discussion from people on all sides of this.

flyingrabbitt,
I feel you. When I was younger I'd fall into these self-deprecating ruts to the point of being manipulative of people. Most people here are not like that at all, in fact I think this forum provides a sense of community for people going through shared traumas---but it can also be kind of an echo chamber for negativity and anti-recovery sentiments? Now that I'm older I realize how much I used to think about myself and how much it hurt my family, and feel horrible. It's just dangerous because the deeper you fall into the mindset, the harder it is to get out.

Also, love your pfp. Miffy is so cute :)

 

[blujay21]

Does anyone else notice the extremely unhealthy thinking patterns a lot of people on the suicide discussion forum fall into?
I'm specifically talking about the all life is bad and suffering is inevitable type of thinking, which I can't fault people for because I've been there but it's so anti recovery and harmful in the long run because it's only going to force you further into your misery and it's sad to see.

The best thing I ever did for myself was changing how I talk about myself and think about the world, instead of life being bad it's the people who hurt me and made me believe life isn't a gift. Instead of "I'm so stupid" jokes I turned to "I'm actually a genius" jokes which also have the perk of making those around you more comfortable because self deprecation can be draining.

Obligatory disclaimer that this isn't to change anyone's perspective, I'm just hoping to have a discussion from people on all sides of this.

I have thought about the ethics of this website a lot. The type of thought patterns you are talking about are almost certainly exacerbated by the content and general culture of this forum. When I first discovered this site I was put off at first. The obvious issue is that this site might be what pushes some people over the edge, however I have sense changed my opinion quite drastically. I still think that this site has the potential and maybe even directly causes harm on some level especially when it comes to enforcing certain "negative" kinds of thought, however the benefits of this site greatly outweigh the negatives in my opinion. Having a community of people you can share your ideas and feelings with is invaluable, and a lot of these people who are truly blackpilled on the world and their lives get some of their only sense of community and friendship from this place. Lastly I think it is important to acknowledge the amount of effort required to change your perspective like that. It just isn't something a lot of people aren't even capable of let alone willing.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I'm very aware of these people, I used to be like that a little while back.


I think some people definitely are blinded by depression but they're definitely a minority, you can see who is and isn't self aware pretty quickly in most cases and most people here are in my opinion. I do think a lot of people are willingly choosing to stay in this pit of despair, with a minority seeing other ways of thinking as delusional.


I know in my case I wasn't aware just how much of a difference it made because I had never in my life been happy so I had nothing to compare to, I imagine this to be the case for a lot of people here just seeing the stories posted by others. If you told me last year recovery was possible I would've laughed in your face and told you not for me because I wholeheartedly believed it wasn't, yet I managed to get up on my own two feet.


Oh absolutely, I don't expect to change anyones view of the world especially on this forum of all places.


This is true, I definitely believe people here are smart enough to know when this forum has negative effects but that brings me to my next point.


I assume some people use this forum as a means of self harm, similar to how people use proana forums as self harm. Though I agree with people having very strong opinions on here, I wouldn't stick around if people were very impressionable because there's no real discussion to be had with people who have no solid viewpoint.

Responding to all these has really made me think about how and why people think like this and continue to do so, I guess I also never realised just how much recovery takes to turn to because I had no other choice with it.

Don't get me wrong- I admire you for trying to recover. Especially if you had no 'happy' point to refer back to. I do think the will/desire has to be there though. I think it's difficult to half heartedly do something like this for it to work. I mean it may- if someone's lucky. If they make steps in the direction towards living and chance happens to reward them- it can give them the impetus to REALLY believe and continue. It's just whether someone has the resilience to keep trying if/when fate slaps them in the face again. I think many here are simply tired of trying and failing.

Hmm- that's curious- self harm? I definitely think a lot of us enjoy wallowing in misery (me included.) I think it can be more comfortable for us. In my case- trying to think positive will ultimately push me out into the world and into social situations. That terrifies me the most- so yes, I'm perfectly willing to accept that I'm 'happier' to just give up- to tell myself it's ok to give up- which I happen to also believe. And yes- this site is full of support on WHY it's ok for us to give up. I don't think any of it's new to anyone though. We've likely had most of the thoughts already.

I'm curious- if you're open to sharing of course. What made you put your effort into recovery? I'm really happy for you that it's working out. I hope it continues to. For me- I'm waiting for my Dad to go before I CTB. But I'm more comfortable to tread water. I don't actually want to 'recover'. There's the VERY unlikely chance it could happen organically between now and then- all sorts can happen in life after all but- I doubt it will be a conscious/ concerted effort at this point for me. I wish you all the best though.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

Unfortunately, the reality is some people just don't believe their life will ever be at an adequate place to enjoy life, and they may or may not be right. It is not my place to tell them they are right, nor is it your place to tell them they are wrong. Not everyone can be as fortunate as you and have a path to recovery. Some people's life circumstances make it impossible to enjoy life (extreme cases of gender dysphoria, chronic pain, birth defects). You may be the exception to where you were able to start enjoying life in spite of everything that brought you to the point of CTBing in the first place, but again, that is not everyone.

While you could argue that a change of mindset could make their life a lot better, I could argue that it's merely coping and deluding themselves. It goes like the age old question "Do things truly get better? Or do we just get used to how terrible things are?".

If you truly have an issue with people that do not wish to recover or have a negative view on life, you can either:
A. solve the problems that bring people to this site (Unfortunately, you cannot because you are not a miracle worker)
B. Stay in the recovery section and change the settings in your account to where you can block out the suicide, and even off topic section
c. Leave this site altogether.

Sadly, you nor any other pro life person who comes to this forum can make much of a dent in the amount of people who desire to CTB, and you need to accept it. Just like some of us have accepted that our lives will never be great, and choose to CTB instead.

 

[blujay21]

Unfortunately, the reality is some people just don't believe their life will ever be at an adequate place to enjoy life, and they may or may not be right. It is not my place to tell them they are right, nor is it your place to tell them they are wrong. Not everyone can be as fortunate as you and have a path to recovery. Some people's life circumstances make it impossible to enjoy life (extreme cases of gender dysphoria, chronic pain, birth defects). You may be the exception to where you were able to start enjoying life in spite of everything that brought you to the point of CTBing in the first place, but again, that is not everyone.

While you could argue that a change of mindset could make their life a lot better, I could argue that it's merely coping and deluding themselves. It goes like the age old question "Do things truly get better? Or do we just get used to how terrible things are?".

If you truly have an issue with people that do not wish to recover or have a negative view on life, you can either:
A. solve the problems that bring people to this site (Unfortunately, you cannot because you are not a miracle worker)
B. Stay in the recovery section and change the settings in your account to where you can block out the suicide, and even off topic section
c. Leave this site altogether.

Sadly, you nor any other pro life person who comes to this forum can make much of a dent in the amount of people who desire to CTB, and you need to accept it. Just like some of us have accepted that our lives will never be great, and choose to CTB instead.

I respect your opinion on this, but I think this kind of thinking is what OP is referring to. The point is we should not just "accept" that people feel this way and that this is the way things are. I think the solution is making people more hopeful, which this forum certainly has the potential to do. In this way the world is quite analogous to the old myth of pandoras box. When pandoras box was opened sickness and sadness was released upon the world, but so was hope. Frankly however, I cannot blame people for losing hope.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

I respect your opinion on this, but I think this kind of thinking is what OP is referring to. The point is we should not just "accept" that people feel this way and that this is the way things are. I think the solution is making people more hopeful, which this forum certainly has the potential to do. In this way the world is quite analogous to the old myth of pandoras box. When pandoras box was opened sickness and sadness was released upon the world, but so was hope. Frankly however, I cannot blame people for losing hope.

I don't know if you are aware but some people come to this forum because they are sick of being more "hopeful" when it is in vain. You can offer people hope, but do you actually know without a shadow of a doubt the people you are offering hope to will be able to live their ideal lives? I don't think so. You cannot guarantee that someone whom is gender dysphoric will wake up the next day and be the correct sex, you cannot guarantee that someone with chronic pain will wake up and be relieved of it for good etc. Do you expect someone to just run on fumes using the false hope you provide? In order for the hope to be legitimate, there needs to be a factual basis to justify believing things get better.

This place isn't designed to give false hope. People whom have turned and were able to recover are way too biased to relate to people who want to CTB any longer, and really shouldn't be voicing their opinion on the matter, however at the very least you are afforded this right on here. It is best not to overstep your bounds by attempting to turn this place into a utopia that fits your thinking. This place was designed to give people like myself, whom want to give up on life the ability to express that while I wait for the date to CTB without fear of pro lifers trying to dissuade me.

This solution you provided is no different than the ineffective methods that therapists and other self help books provide. You want to keep people alive running on the fumes of false hope just to be a wage slave in a mediocre life for the sake of it. There is no value in living a life you hate, no accomplishment in growing old living a life you hate just to have someone wipe your ass and sponge bathe you when you grow older at state's expenses.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe life inherently is terrible. I know for a fact that there are people whom have a good life. I am just realistic enough to acknowledge that life isn't the way I wish it was for me, nor will it become half as good as the life I want to live, and I wasn't given the life that I wanted to live. I genuinely don't feel like I should have to settle for a life that is mid at best. We come to this site to avoid people like you. We can find your kind (the optimists that want to inject false hope) in any other corner of the internet if we wanted your help. We don't want "help". We want to either be able to live our lives the way we want to be (correct sex, pain free, trauma free, etc.) or not at all.

If you want to make yourselves feel better and inject false hope, there's reddit for that.

 

[Dot]

SaSu = oftn a paradx in tht allowng ppl 2 accpt & connct thse drk feelngs wth th/ validatn of othrs actully hlps mny ppl mve thru thse feelngs & g/ on 2 recovr -- ths plce = oftn jst a season fr mny ppl bt nt fr evry1

A plce tht sys 'feelng lke tht or wantng 2 d/ tht = ok' -- hw cn ppl xplore thse feelngs if thy r jst tld tht thy r wrng & hve 2 fcus on 'hppy' thngs insted -- lke OP sd thy wnt thru a simlr procss -- if OP ws invalid8td durng tht tme thn tht wld hve hd a neg8tve impct on thm -- u needd 2 b in tht plce thn in ordr 2 N-able u 2 b whre u r nw

Ths = wht mny ppl d/ nt undrstnd

= alwys frstr8tng whn ppl assme tht SaSu = hive-mnd of ppl wh/ jst hve a 'depressn kink' or wh/ jst nd 2 thnk bettr thghts

Slf hve a hypnoss injry on top of a neurolgcl issu & am trappd in a 24/7 ptsd flash-bck feed-bck loop & cannt refr2 slf in 1st persn -- = defntly mre complc8td thn jst circl-jerkng neg8tve thghts alng wth evry1 els & jst needng 2 chnge slf mind-st

Thre r a minorty of usrs wh/ xpernce a doomr mnd-set bt thy r oftn th/ loudst -- tht ds nt mean tht thy reprsent th/ frum as a whle bt convrsely d/ nt b surprisd whn vistng a frum cre8td fr suicidl ppl tht u wll fnd membrs wh/ h8 lfe

Membrs regulrly spport ech-othr & try 2 hlp ech-othr thru thr problms & lift ech-othr up -- & smetmes a mind-st changs as a by-prodct of tht spport & smetmes = ds nt

N.e1 wh/ = analysng membrs & castng judgemnt frm a supposd mre N-lightnd plce shld nevr xpect 2 mke mny frnds hre

 

[flyingrabbitt]

I have thought about the ethics of this website a lot. The type of thought patterns you are talking about are almost certainly exacerbated by the content and general culture of this forum. When I first discovered this site I was put off at first. The obvious issue is that this site might be what pushes some people over the edge, however I have sense changed my opinion quite drastically. I still think that this site has the potential and maybe even directly causes harm on some level especially when it comes to enforcing certain "negative" kinds of thought, however the benefits of this site greatly outweigh the negatives in my opinion. Having a community of people you can share your ideas and feelings with is invaluable, and a lot of these people who are truly blackpilled on the world and their lives get some of their only sense of community and friendship from this place.

I was originally put off too, a lot of what I heard about this website was really bad but being here it's honestly pretty good, I enjoy talking to others about their perspective in life and what led them to this forum. I'm very isolated myself so this place is very nice in creating a sense of community.

Lastly I think it is important to acknowledge the amount of effort required to change your perspective like that. It just isn't something a lot of people aren't even capable of let alone willing.

Oh I'm aware, I don't want to shame people with my post, it was more just an open discussion on these types of thinking. I think whether people do/don't want to recover is a personal choice you can't force and encouraging only works if the person is willing to change themselves.

Don't get me wrong- I admire you for trying to recover. Especially if you had no 'happy' point to refer back to. I do think the will/desire has to be there though. I think it's difficult to half heartedly do something like this for it to work. I mean it may- if someone's lucky. If they make steps in the direction towards living and chance happens to reward them- it can give them the impetus to REALLY believe and continue. It's just whether someone has the resilience to keep trying if/when fate slaps them in the face again. I think many here are simply tired of trying and failing.

That's true, my current attempt at recovery is actually my last one because I've been trying for years with no change and I'm exhausted, right now I'm lucky to have a good therapist and support system so I am seeing changes.

Hmm- that's curious- self harm? I definitely think a lot of us enjoy wallowing in misery (me included.) I think it can be more comfortable for us. In my case- trying to think positive will ultimately push me out into the world and into social situations. That terrifies me the most- so yes, I'm perfectly willing to accept that I'm 'happier' to just give up- to tell myself it's ok to give up- which I happen to also believe. And yes- this site is full of support on WHY it's ok for us to give up. I don't think any of it's new to anyone though. We've likely had most of the thoughts already.

I don't fault people for giving up because change is terrifying and sometimes it is easier to just give up which isn't a bad thing, it just personally makes me sad that the world is lacking such a support system for people to be willing to make that change, i think it's a societal problem that mental health services lack funding and treat suicidal people badly to the point people avoid seeking help.

I'm curious- if you're open to sharing of course. What made you put your effort into recovery? I'm really happy for you that it's working out. I hope it continues to. For me- I'm waiting for my Dad to go before I CTB. But I'm more comfortable to tread water. I don't actually want to 'recover'. There's the VERY unlikely chance it could happen organically between now and then- all sorts can happen in life after all but- I doubt it will be a conscious/ concerted effort at this point for me. I wish you all the best though.

This was my last attempt at recovery and I was going to ctb if it didn't work because I could only handle the misery for so much longer, however something has changed and I actually don't mind waking up in the morning. A big part of it was the support system I have which includes my mother who takes care of me, a partner who sticks with me through anything, and a therapist who understands the type of trauma I've been through. I also have DID and that definitely plays a part in my recovery because a part I'm close to is 5 years old and he wants to get better and I can't bring myself to take that away from him if I were to ctb. Understanding my trauma has been very important too because it sheds light on how and why things effect me the way they do.
You're right to say there's a low chance of it happening organically and I hope whatever time you have left here is spent being comfortable.

 

[flyingrabbitt]

While you could argue that a change of mindset could make their life a lot better, I could argue that it's merely coping and deluding themselves. It goes like the age old question "Do things truly get better? Or do we just get used to how terrible things are?".

This is very interesting point actually, it does make me stop to think about how realistic I am with my own thinking because I'm very guilty of ignoring the negative and focusing solely on the positive in the past which is the other side of the coin of people only focusing on the negative, both are unhealthy in the long run.

If you truly have an issue with people that do not wish to recover or have a negative view on life, you can either:
A. solve the problems that bring people to this site (Unfortunately, you cannot because you are not a miracle worker)
B. Stay in the recovery section and change the settings in your account to where you can block out the suicide, and even off topic section
c. Leave this site altogether.

I don't have an issue, I wouldn't have joined the site if I was so against people ctb-ing and not wanting to recover. I asked this specifically in the recovery section because it's more relevant to recovery than general suicide discussion where I'm sure they're tired of seeing ppl question their thinking.

Sadly, you nor any other pro life person who comes to this forum can make much of a dent in the amount of people who desire to CTB, and you need to accept it. Just like some of us have accepted that our lives will never be great, and choose to CTB instead.

You mistake me for being prolife, I'm not. I respect people's choice to ctb and I support it being legal and accessible in every country, death is a human right and that includes suicide. I'm more asking this for a discussion on those kinds of thought patterns rather than getting people to change.

I respect your opinion on this, but I think this kind of thinking is what OP is referring to. The point is we should not just "accept" that people feel this way and that this is the way things are. I think the solution is making people more hopeful, which this forum certainly has the potential to do. In this way the world is quite analogous to the old myth of pandoras box. When pandoras box was opened sickness and sadness was released upon the world, but so was hope. Frankly however, I cannot blame people for losing hope.

No I think people deserve a space without having change forced down their throat, that being the point of the suicide discussion forum. I put this in recovery because it relates more to it and I'd like a discussion on this topic rather than make people hopeful because that's not helpful or realistic for everyone. I think this forum definitely has flaws such as the possibility of radicalising people's views of the world past what they were originally (eg the world is inherently bad and suffering in inevitable) but that's a small thing that definitely doesn't make a bent in how much this forum does help people by creating a safe space no matter where you are in life.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

SaSu = oftn a paradx in tht allowng ppl 2 accpt & connct thse drk feelngs wth th/ validatn of othrs actully hlps mny ppl mve thru thse feelngs & g/ on 2 recovr -- ths plce = oftn jst a season fr mny ppl bt nt fr evry1

A plce tht sys 'feelng lke tht or wantng 2 d/ tht = ok' -- hw cn ppl xplore thse feelngs if thy r jst tld tht thy r wrng & hve 2 fcus on 'hppy' thngs insted -- lke OP sd thy wnt thru a simlr procss -- if OP ws invalid8td durng tht tme thn tht wld hve hd a neg8tve impct on thm -- u needd 2 b in tht plce thn in ordr 2 N-able u 2 b whre u r nw

Ths = wht mny ppl d/ nt undrstnd

= alwys frstr8tng whn ppl assme tht SaSu = hive-mnd of ppl wh/ jst hve a 'depressn kink' or wh/ jst nd 2 thnk bettr thghts

Slf hve a hypnoss injry on top of a neurolgcl issu & am trappd in a 24/7 ptsd flash-bck feed-bck loop & cannt refr2 slf in 1st persn -- = defntly mre complc8td thn jst circl-jerkng neg8tve thghts alng wth evry1 els & jst needng 2 chnge slf mind-st

Thre r a minorty of usrs wh/ xpernce a doomr mnd-set bt thy r oftn th/ loudst -- tht ds nt mean tht thy reprsent th/ frum as a whle bt convrsely d/ nt b surprisd whn vistng a frum cre8td fr suicidl ppl tht u wll fnd membrs wh/ h8 lfe

Membrs regulrly spport ech-othr & try 2 hlp ech-othr thru thr problms & lift ech-othr up -- & smetmes a mind-st changs as a by-prodct of tht spport & smetmes = ds nt

N.e1 wh/ = analysng membrs & castng judgemnt frm a supposd mre N-lightnd plce shld nevr xpect 2 mke mny frnds hre

Translated as requested by Dot.

Sasu is often a paradox in that allowing people to accept and connect these dark feelings with the validation of others actually helps many people move through these feelings and go on to recover. This place is often just a season for many people, but not for everyone.

A place that says feeling like that or wanting to do that (as in feeling like wanting to die or wanting to die). How can people explore those feelings if they are just told they are wrong and have to focus on the happy things instead. Like OP said, they went through a similar place and if the OP was invalidated during that time, then that would have had a negative impact on them. You needed to be in that place in order to enable you to be where you are now.

This is what many people do not understand.
It's always frustrating when people assume that Sasu is a hive mind of people who just have a depression kink or who just need to think better thoughts.

I have a hypnosis injury on top of neurological issue and I am trapped ina 24/7 ptsd flashback feedback loop and cannot refer to myself in the first person. Definitely more complicated than just circle jerking negative thoughts along with everyone else and just needing to change my own mindset.

There are a minority of users whom experience a doomer mindset but they are often the loudest. That doesn't mean they represent the forum as a whole, but conversely do not be surprised when visiting a site credited for suicidal people that you find members who hate life.

Members regularly support each other and try to help each other through their problems and lift each other up, and sometimes mindsets change as a byproduct of that support and sometimes does not.

Anyone who is analyzing members and casting judgment from a suppose enlightened place should never expect to make many friends here.

 

[flyingrabbitt]

Translated as requested by Dot.

Sasu is often a paradox in that allowing people to accept and connect these dark feelings with the validation of others actually helps many people move through these feelings and go on to recover. This place is often just a season for many people, but not for everyone.

A place that says feeling like that or wanting to do that (as in feeling like wanting to die or wanting to die). How can people explore those feelings if they are just told they are wrong and have to focus on the happy things instead. Like OP said, they went through a similar place and if the OP was invalidated during that time, then that would have had a negative impact on them. You need to be in that place in order to enable you to be where you are now.

This is what many people do not understand.
It's always frustrating when people assume that Sasu is a hive mind of people who just have a depression kink or who just need to think better thoughts.

I have a hypnosis injury on top of neurological issue and I am trapped ina 24/7 ptsd flashback feedback loop and cannot refer to myself in the first person. Definitely more complicated than just circle jerking negative thoughts along with everyone else and just needing to change my own mindset.

There are a minority of users whom experience a doomer mindset but they are often the loudest. That doesn't mean they represent the forum as a whole, but conversely do not be surprised when visiting a site credited for suicidal people that you find members who hate life.

Members regularly support each other and try to help each other through their problems and lift each other up, and sometimes a mindset change as a byproduct of that support and sometimes does not.

Anyone who is analyzing members and casting judgment from a suppose enlightened place should never expect to make many friends here.

Thank you for translating!

I agree with Dot about that minority being the loudest, I found a lot more supportive people in my time here even in the suicide discussion.
One thing people said about this forum is that it encourages suicide which it definitely doesn't, when I first heard about it I expected a toxic miserable place but it's quite nice here even as someone in recovery.

 

[murkylake]

Hi, was browsing the recovery section but this post rubbed me the wrong way. It really does seem like you have a "more holy than thou" mindset when it comes to those of us who spend a lot of our time in the suicide discussion forum. Making posts about us and our "unhealthy thinking" makes me feel like you're creating a mental divide in the community. Like we're lesser. We are a community, wether you are in recovery or actively looking to CTB. We're all here because we believe dying is a human right. I like browsing the recovery section, but seeing a post like this that discusses the other members of this community in a negative light is hurtful. This post is hurtful, and you are coming across like you have moral high ground because you don't have "unhealthy thinking" anymore. just saying

 

[WorthlessTrash]

Honestly, I wish I didn't have to be here. Almost no one here wants to die. We just don't want to exist in a life we don't like. I, unfortunately cannot have the life or body I want because I don't have the biological and genetic tools to. Yes, I could "cope", but that doesn't seem like a useful life to me. Cope for what purpose? Just to eventually die anyways? Death isn't bad, it's just inevitable, and if I hate the life I am living, I absolutely should be allowed to get it over with instead of delaying the inevitable.

 

[spinningship]

I wonder to what extent "unhealthy thinking" is a product of a depressed mind. I find when I'm depressed I find these "unhealthy" thoughts much easier to resonate with emotionally than when I'm not depressed they seem absurd. But to me telling someone to simply think different thoughts is like behavioral therapy for kids with ADHD say. It doesn't actually resolve the root issue, it simply forces people to shut up and pretend to think things their mindset doesn't lend them to naturally thinking. It's essentially bringing the level of control over someone to within their own mind like something from an Orwell novel.

One thing I would say is that in my experience I ended up on this forum without ever having sought out help. Maybe I'm a minority I don't know. So I think it's worth making sure that people have looked into all the support available to them, or at least are made aware that they are depressed if they are depressed. Obviously harder to treat things like CPTSD could be at the root of some people's issues and assuming condescendingly that someone should just get help for depression often comes off as unempathetic.

Like I think to some extent all our language is our way of expressing how we feel on the inside in a quite lossy way. To take the language literally which is what I tend to do is to miss something. People find being able to share and connect with others in a similarly shit place in life is the beauty of this forum and why I think it would be an awful shame if we lost it.

 

[flyingrabbitt]

Hi, was browsing the recovery section but this post rubbed me the wrong way. It really does seem like you have a "more holy than thou" mindset when it comes to those of us who spend a lot of our time in the suicide discussion forum. Making posts about us and our "unhealthy thinking" makes me feel like you're creating a mental divide in the community. Like we're lesser. We are a community, wether you are in recovery or actively looking to CTB. We're all here because we believe dying is a human right. I like browsing the recovery section, but seeing a post like this that discusses the other members of this community in a negative light is hurtful. This post is hurtful, and you are coming across like you have moral high ground because you don't have "unhealthy thinking" anymore. just saying

Thank you for letting me know! I feel like I could've worded the original post here better because I can definitely see where you're coming from.
The intent was to open up a conversation about this rather than judge people for having that mindset because I don't see myself as better than those who aren't in recovery for whatever reason that may be.

Honestly, I wish I didn't have to be here. Almost no one here wants to die. We just don't want to exist in a life we don't like.

This one is definitely a big part of why I'm very passionate about societal change in regards to mental health and treatment of suicidal people, also why I'm anti capitalist since that plays an important part in people's suffering.

I, unfortunately cannot have the life or body I want because I don't have the biological and genetic tools to. Yes, I could "cope", but that doesn't seem like a useful life to me. Cope for what purpose? Just to eventually die anyways? Death isn't bad, it's just inevitable, and if I hate the life I am living, I absolutely should be allowed to get it over with instead of delaying the inevitable.

That's understandable and whatever choice you make I hope you find peace with it.

 

[The anhedonic one]

I don't regard it as unhealthy thinking, I regard it as facing reality.
I cannot possibly be optimistic about anything concerning my many problems because these problems have reached a point of being unfixable.
Some of us here are just broken beyond repair now.

 

[NumbItAll]

Optimism was my default outlook for the first 25 years of my life and got me absolutely nowhere. I would happily resume that state if I had any reason to, but unfortunately the results say otherwise.

 

[flyingrabbitt]

I wonder to what extent "unhealthy thinking" is a product of a depressed mind. I find when I'm depressed I find these "unhealthy" thoughts much easier to resonate with emotionally than when I'm not depressed they seem absurd. But to me telling someone to simply think different thoughts is like behavioral therapy for kids with ADHD say. It doesn't actually resolve the root issue, it simply forces people to shut up and pretend to think things their mindset doesn't lend them to naturally thinking. It's essentially bringing the level of control over someone to within their own mind like something from an Orwell novel.

This is true, I know in my case the change in mindset came when I finally had the root issue acknowledged and started treatment for it.

One thing I would say is that in my experience I ended up on this forum without ever having sought out help. Maybe I'm a minority I don't know. So I think it's worth making sure that people have looked into all the support available to them, or at least are made aware that they are depressed if they are depressed. Obviously harder to treat things like CPTSD could be at the root of some people's issues and assuming condescendingly that someone should just get help for depression often comes off as unempathetic.

Cptsd treatment is a bitch, it's what causes pretty much all of my issues and it's also insanely difficult to find a therapist you can connect with not to mention how expensive it can be. Definitely don't fault people for not seeking help or giving up on seeking it because I was treated badly by mental health services for 6 years.

Like I think to some extent all our language is our way of expressing how we feel on the inside in a quite lossy way. To take the language literally which is what I tend to do is to miss something. People find being able to share and connect with others in a similarly shit place in life is the beauty of this forum and why I think it would be an awful shame if we lost it.

Oh absolutely, I really enjoy this forum even if I'm not suicidal and I know this forum would've been such a good place for me if I found it when I was. Im autistic so I definitely have a problem with taking things too literally.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I was originally put off too, a lot of what I heard about this website was really bad but being here it's honestly pretty good, I enjoy talking to others about their perspective in life and what led them to this forum. I'm very isolated myself so this place is very nice in creating a sense of community.


Oh I'm aware, I don't want to shame people with my post, it was more just an open discussion on these types of thinking. I think whether people do/don't want to recover is a personal choice you can't force and encouraging only works if the person is willing to change themselves.

That's true, my current attempt at recovery is actually my last one because I've been trying for years with no change and I'm exhausted, right now I'm lucky to have a good therapist and support system so I am seeing changes.


I don't fault people for giving up because change is terrifying and sometimes it is easier to just give up which isn't a bad thing, it just personally makes me sad that the world is lacking such a support system for people to be willing to make that change, i think it's a societal problem that mental health services lack funding and treat suicidal people badly to the point people avoid seeking help.


This was my last attempt at recovery and I was going to ctb if it didn't work because I could only handle the misery for so much longer, however something has changed and I actually don't mind waking up in the morning. A big part of it was the support system I have which includes my mother who takes care of me, a partner who sticks with me through anything, and a therapist who understands the type of trauma I've been through. I also have DID and that definitely plays a part in my recovery because a part I'm close to is 5 years old and he wants to get better and I can't bring myself to take that away from him if I were to ctb. Understanding my trauma has been very important too because it sheds light on how and why things effect me the way they do.
You're right to say there's a low chance of it happening organically and I hope whatever time you have left here is spent being comfortable.

Thanks so much. You have clearly had a lot to cope with but I'm glad to hear you have such a strong support system. I'm sure that's very important. I hope things continue to improve for you.

 

[Moonomyth]

I'm disabled both physically and mentally to the point I require a caretaker with how low functioning I am and despite all that a change in mindset still improved my mood somewhat, I don't think it's a cure by any means but it does make waking up just a little more bearable, keeps you going a little longer.
This does give insight into why people fall into and stay in that pattern of thinking so thank you, it's very appreciated.

Bolding for emphasis.

A common experience among members of the forum is an exhaustion with the kind of platitudes that are often employed in encouraging others to take on more positive mindsets. I'm sure most, if not all, people here have heard "It gets better!" often enough that some people might have an immediate negative reaction to it.

There's some history behind that specific phrase I won't get into, but that one in particular can ring hollow for many users, because sometimes "It gets better" is a more positive way of saying "It can possibly become bearable."

Depending on the circumstances of the user, "bearable" might be its own kind of horror. You will still be in pain, your issues will never go away, but you may find it tolerable enough. No promises.

I've found that if people are anti-life, it's often because they've seen their options run from miserable to bearable, and never to better. Given those options, it doesn't surprise me that some people would react that way.

 

[audison]

Reading over this again I want to rebuke what I said earlier as I feel like I may have kinda projected my own experience and past manipulation onto other people, especially considering a lot of people don't have a strong support system. Kind of like Moonomyth said I feel like when most people fall into these thinking patterns it's usually because they've actually faced the brunt of life head on and have seen their options run out time and time again. For me the biggest thing that attracted me to this site was the absence of toxic positivity that plagues a lot of help forums, but here I can talk with people who have faced similar traumas I have and genuinely understand them for what they are.