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U

Undefined

genetic trash
Feb 21, 2020
18
why should 'you' get disability because other people are assholes?

I think you are conflicting the cause with the effect. This has to do with the way human brains are biologically wired, and environment/society can only 'hide' these instincts in the sense of restricting the outward expression of it, but the subconscious biases still remain.

I agree with you that lookism shouldn't exist at all on both sides, but practically speaking if one is going to be treated like an object at all, then being seen as a valuable commodity is much preferable than being a disgusting burden, or even a subhuman.
 
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nopointofliving

nopointofliving

Warrior
Apr 19, 2021
513
Hug you tight brother .. :heart::hug::hug:
 
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Life_and_Death

Life_and_Death

Do what's best for you 🕯️ I'm............
Jul 1, 2020
7,031
This has to do with the way human brains are biologically wired, and environment/society can only 'hide' these instincts in the sense of restricting the outward expression of it, but the subconscious biases still remain.
It's something that would have to be "breed out" by teaching the next generation to be more accepting (although I doubt that would happen)
 
siray

siray

the crucified
Dec 28, 2018
178
Thanks for saying in clear words why ugliness is a disability. I myself always felt disgustingly worthless ever since I was self aware.

My parents are weak and ugly and I'm the firstborn, and it's not just the ugliness that I inherited, it's the ghastly weirdness also that I have become in a futile struggle to function like normal humans.

I cannot bear the sight of myself in mirror or photos, I would rather smoke hash and stay high most of the day. I'll CTB in a few months, I'm fucking done with this despicable genetic constitution.
 
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Superdeterminist

Superdeterminist

Enlightened
Apr 5, 2020
1,876
I do think lookism is a big problem in the world that can affect one's outcomes in life quite profoundly. The reality is that humans are biased and tend to treat those they find attractive preferentially. Often we depend on these judging people in positions of power for our own success and that could be a court judge, an employer, and so on. This is not to condemn people who partake in it, we basically all do it in some way, and it's unavoidable. Rather it's to point out another aspect of human nature that causes suffering and we should see if we can somehow get around it. It's another reason why I'm excited about an AI takeover - robot overlords won't (in theory) have this bias.
 
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BluesRunTheGame

BluesRunTheGame

Blackpilled
Dec 15, 2020
1,715
For sure good-looking and even average-looking people don't seem to understand the privilege they've been granted in this society.
 
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Painless_end

Painless_end

Life is too difficult for me
Oct 11, 2019
794
Strong mind is the only component required to live a healthy life.

A person's mind is more important than everything else.

Don't despair over your physical looks. If you can, try to strengthen your mind.

If you can't, you will always suffer like I do.

My lack of mental strength isn't a conscious choice, it exists at the base of my own existence.

I would give everything up to have a strong mental core that can be defended against all the evil and harassment of the world.
 
ExistentialEntropy

ExistentialEntropy

we all go home eventually
Jul 4, 2020
82
Ugliness and shortness, while a major bummer, are not disabilities in the true sense of the word. To be disabled is to have a physical or cognitive handicap that literally dis-ables basic human functions like walking, talking, reading, writing, lifting, eating and so forth. To be disabled is to require some form of assistance, either from equipment or a carer, to get through each day.

Whilst there are many social prejudices against shortness and perceived ugliness, these things alone are not major handicaps to your ability to get through the day. I know they might feel like that, especially if you have been focusing on yourself and your appearance with an over critical eye, but they won't stop you from walking down the street and doing whatever you damn well please.

I say that because that's something you have going for you that you can be grateful for: the fortune of being fully abled. There are many people who would trade places with you just to be able to take a shit without the aid of a carer to wipe their ass.

Feeling as if you are ugly sucks and I'm not belittling your pain. But there are much worse things to have to cope with in life. Focusing on what you have going for you, rather than what you don't like about yourself, is the way to beat it. The world is a messed up place where babies die due to lack of clean water, so whilst you have the privilege of using your body's functions without impedance, it's worth taking advantage of that gift.

I used to be very insecure about my appearance. But I eventually came to the conclusion that no one else really gave a fuck how I looked because they were all wrapped up in their own insecurity anyway. I realised that the most powerful thing I could do was stop playing that game and get on with my life without giving a damn about shallow vanity. It was hard to start with but I started looking after myself a bit more, working harder, focusing on always doing my best and pursuing my own happiness. It lead me to higher paid employment, financial stability and much more self confidence. Meanwhile some of the ego dragging people I used to be intimidated by are still in the same dead end roles gossiping about who shagged who last Friday night.

The main reason I'm here on SS is because Corona fucked me up and I now struggle with tons of nerve damage and chronic fatigue and I constantly question if it's worth continuing with the uncertainty of recovery. I haven't CTB yet because part of me keeps telling myself that I should be grateful I didn't die like others and that I can still walk and talk. But if all I had going against me was the fact that I don't meet the shallow beauty standard of the social media era, nah... I'd be laughing in the face of the normies, taking whatever I goddamn wanted from life while they watched in bafflement.

It's hard. But stop looking at yourself in the mirror bullying yourself. Most people don't give a second thought about how you look because they are so wrapped up in their own little world. Once you stop being your own worst critic you are free to stick it to the world.
 
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TheYounger

TheYounger

Aria Math
Jun 7, 2020
140
I'm 5'9''! Does that mean I should kill myself? Yes! Absolutely!
 
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Life_and_Death

Life_and_Death

Do what's best for you 🕯️ I'm............
Jul 1, 2020
7,031
This is a very clear case of people only seeing through their eyes.
 
LastFlowers

LastFlowers

the haru that can read
Apr 27, 2019
2,170
Ugliness and shortness, while a major bummer, are not disabilities in the true sense of the word. To be disabled is to have a physical or cognitive handicap that literally dis-ables basic human functions like walking, talking, reading, writing, lifting, eating and so forth. To be disabled is to require some form of assistance, either from equipment or a carer, to get through each day.

Whilst there are many social prejudices against shortness and perceived ugliness, these things alone are not major handicaps to your ability to get through the day. I know they might feel like that, especially if you have been focusing on yourself and your appearance with an over critical eye, but they won't stop you from walking down the street and doing whatever you damn well please.

I say that because that's something you have going for you that you can be grateful for: the fortune of being fully abled. There are many people who would trade places with you just to be able to take a shit without the aid of a carer to wipe their ass.

Feeling as if you are ugly sucks and I'm not belittling your pain. But there are much worse things to have to cope with in life. Focusing on what you have going for you, rather than what you don't like about yourself, is the way to beat it. The world is a messed up place where babies die due to lack of clean water, so whilst you have the privilege of using your body's functions without impedance, it's worth taking advantage of that gift.

I used to be very insecure about my appearance. But I eventually came to the conclusion that no one else really gave a fuck how I looked because they were all wrapped up in their own insecurity anyway. I realised that the most powerful thing I could do was stop playing that game and get on with my life without giving a damn about shallow vanity. It was hard to start with but I started looking after myself a bit more, working harder, focusing on always doing my best and pursuing my own happiness. It lead me to higher paid employment, financial stability and much more self confidence. Meanwhile some of the ego dragging people I used to be intimidated by are still in the same dead end roles gossiping about who shagged who last Friday night.

The main reason I'm here on SS is because Corona fucked me up and I now struggle with tons of nerve damage and chronic fatigue and I constantly question if it's worth continuing with the uncertainty of recovery. I haven't CTB yet because part of me keeps telling myself that I should be grateful I didn't die like others and that I can still walk and talk. But if all I had going against me was the fact that I don't meet the shallow beauty standard of the social media era, nah... I'd be laughing in the face of the normies, taking whatever I goddamn wanted from life while they watched in bafflement.

It's hard. But stop looking at yourself in the mirror bullying yourself. Most people don't give a second thought about how you look because they are so wrapped up in their own little world. Once you stop being your own worst critic you are free to stick it to the world.
Looks like the suffering olympics have arrived. You bring up incontinence and "impedance" (did you mean impotence?)
as reasons we should be grateful to be alive.
That's basically the "starving children in Africa" argument.
You could use that for just about anything, on just about anyone.
It means nothing in the context of the types of problems people bring up on this site, it's actually something the pro-lifers tend to use. Shameful.

Try telling every other person here that 'line' about how all the people who can't wipe their own ass would be waiting in the wings to spit at their trauma and take their place.
There's a lot of contradictory and telling subtleties, even within that statement, that the statement alone does not properly sum up.
Nothing is ever as simple as "You can shit on your own, unlike me, therefore I want your life!"
Who is to say they wouldn't also end up succumbing to the very problems they traded theirs for?
Who is to say these people didn't already live better lives than the rest of us, prior to their need for medical assistance.
You have to make that distinction, along with quite a few others, as your initial statement alone is too broad.

Blame the victim.
That's what you're doing.
Saying people who realize they are unattractive and suffering the consequences just have an "over" critical eye, when there is nothing "overly" critical or "worst critic" about it.
It's just a normal assessment of a far from ideal situation.
We don't choose to focus on such things, we can't exactly jump out of our skin at any time, we aren't blind and we can see when something isn't right or a hinderance to the pursuit of living well.
And if we were to ever forget, the rest of humanity would be sure to remind us, as they already so often do.

I don't know what universe you reside in, but under no usual circumstances can anybody go about the world just taking what they want from life.
The people who come the closest are the ones with the heftiest privileges-and even they can't have a say over every other thing they want from the world.
These weighty privileges,
Attractiveness being one of them.
Ability to use the toilet-not so much.

This has nothing to do with vanity either, just for the record.
That's wholly mistaken.
People who deal with this degree of impairment and agony from looking a way in which others treat them unfairly and unequally, are usually some of the least shallow or vain individuals to walk the earth.
They know how it feels so they tend to exercise restraint when they feel their minds leaning in to judge another person's looks for being worse for the wear.
We are not narcissists admiring ourselves in the mirror, the preoccupation is not indulgent, it's involuntarily disparaging.

..So you are basically saying we just have to "look on the bright side" and be grateful for what we do have and that this is not a problem worth suffering over in and of itself?
That is absolutely preposterous and atrocious of you to say.
Just Instagram platitudes and falsehoods created by people who don't know the pain of others.

Besides, don't you understand that one problem often leads to more?
Maybe you should read my comment about just how easily one loss breeds another, because after this comment, I'm done here, just futile, (it also amazes me how certain other people are so invested in a topic where they don't even have ground to stand on, no horse in the race, yet they're set on lighting the whole thing to flames, just because their privilege pinkie got stubbed. Juvenile.)

Your entire tone is condescending.
Bringing up the perceived ugliness, as if it isn't actually so. Vile and pompous patronizing.
Are you ugly? "Perceived" is a dismissive term and you speak of something so pseudo-analytically even though you have never lived it.
Also "feel ugly"? ..it's not just a feeling, it's a reality.
Insecurity doesn't mean you were actually unattractive.
Everyone has insecurities, but not everyone has a legitimate physical appearance detriment that warrants said insecurities.
Others do, objectively speaking.

You bring up how you realized others don't really give a fuck what you look like.
And in a way, I agree with you.
Because yea, most people who are not you, who do not have to live inside your body, who do not have to suffer the consequences of that body-do not actually have any investment in how good or bad you look. They're worried about themselves.
But they're worried about themselves LOOKING GOOD, terrified to become the thing they judge with their eyes at every in-person interaction.
They don't give a shit about what you look like while also giving just about every shit.
They are still judging, they are still measuring worth with their vision, they are still treating one level of attractiveness far differently than the other.
That might not be "caring" what you look like exactly, but also, it IS.
We are talking about two different forms of giving a damn-or not giving one.

It's not about not liking ourselves either,
I actually like myself quite fine, it's my flesh that's the problem, I'm just along for the ride.
It's quite despicable that people always equate the dislike for one's own body with the dislike of one's own self.
I had no choice in what I look like, so in that way, it has nothing to do with 'me'.
Give me a choice in the matter, and maybe then you can start defining who I am by my face and body.
Just another subtext of lookism.

Let me ask you something, when you get a wart on your foot, do you suddenly become one with the wart?
Embrace the wart?
Praise the wart?
Nope.
You freeze the fucker off your foot because it inconveniences you, it disgusts you and others, it gets in the way every time you take a step.
Me identifying by my body in this form, is basically the same as me identifying with a single vein in my wrist.
It's the same stupid thing.

People have to be comfortable in their skin in order to have any quality of life, we should be able to identify with our physical appearance as much as possible as it is literally how the world's eye views us, why would we ever want to be constantly mistaken for something we are not?
But many are so far from an ideal humansuit that signals their inner self, where nothing short of successfully altering the body to match the mind, will suffice.
It is a similar dysphoria as in transgenderism, not dysmorphia, but body dysphoria. Warranted.
So not only is it an issue within society, but also within one's own individualism, a matter of someone feeling freedom in their own skin.

It's not "the shallow beauty standard of the social media era" and you damn well know it. Lookism has been around as long as humans walked the earth.
It's the most basic and raw of prejudices.
I need nothing but the real world, devoid of social media, to shove my existence toward the trenches.
Social media is simply expediting the issue and openly and inter-connectedly portraying it.
If you've got a grasp on the objective standards of what is aesthetically pleasing in the human form, then you could relatively easily prove where you stand in terms of general physical attractiveness. It's a science, there's nothing subjective about it.
You may find levels of subjectivity within it, but the hard lines of what we are talking about, are largely immutable.
It's part of the reason we are able to instantly assess most people (even when not understanding why) on how good looking or not they appear to be, whether we, personally, are sexually attracted to them or not.

And who are you to say what should or should not affect people in such a damaging way or what can or can't inhibit someone from getting through their day?
I assure you plenty of people find difficulties getting through their day from this issue.
I see posts all the time about problems that I would trade mine for, it doesn't necessarily mean one of us doesn't deserve to suffer as much as we are.
One man's monster is another man's mouse, and vice versa.
We are not all affected in the same degree by the same things.
(and I'm talking about disadvantages, not advantages..the latter of which the desire to complain should be mute.)

What if I told you if all I had to deal with was nerve damage and chronic fatigue (I already have things that are equivalent FYI), I would spring to my senses and walk out my door smiling in the sun, grinning ear to ear like the world was my oyster, never to complain another day in my life.
Because guess what? I can honestly say it!
Does that make it okay for me to tell you that you should be grateful that's all you have to deal with? No!
But you think that's okay.
Plus, you make the assumption that everyone who is ugly is suddenly free from every other problem, that they "only" have to deal with ugliness, which is, in most cases, erroneous and fallacious.
 
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Catchingdabus27

Catchingdabus27

Enlightened
Dec 8, 2019
1,516
No it shouldn't be. Im sorry (not really) but this just sounds immature as hell.

There's already real classifications of disabilities, THAT actually yeah know? Disable people from living a full life.

that can't compare to the disadvantages of lookism.


Plus.... if ur friends are perplexed as to why u have no relationship experience then maybe self reflect a little. May just be a you issue. They clearly see someone of value. Someone that others would find attractive so. There's so many guides/groups/reddit for perceived unattractiveness.
 
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demuic

demuic

Life was a mistake
Sep 12, 2020
1,383
I'm 5'9''! Does that mean I should kill myself? Yes! Absolutely!
That is literally taller than or the same as the average height in most countries.
 
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ithappens

ithappens

Live free or die
Aug 9, 2018
159
I'm almost afraid to join this conversation because of how toxic it's become so quickly, but I'm going to throw my 2 cents in anyway ...

I've been on both sides of the fence. As a child I was pretty ugly. Yes I was still able to make friends, but it was with a group of other kids who were kind of "outcasts" and considered social rejects. This was not for my lack of trying because I did my best to be a kind person. And there were people who saw me for what I was and did enjoy my company. However, I also got to see first hand the discrimination people have against the ugly both consciously and unconsciously. My younger sister was always considered very pretty, and I was constantly compared to her. My relatives would always flock to her to praise her and tell her she was so pretty and smart and so forth, and then would turn to me and (if they even tried to be polite at all) would mutter something in my direction to the effect of "Ehh ... you're a nice kid too." and then quickly wander off to speak to other relatives. Of course it did not help that I am autistic (undiagnosed for the longest time) and had difficulties being social as well, but it really hurts when you can see first hand how poorly people will treat you based on how you look. All my friends were like that too tbh. I had one friend who I had the biggest crush on for the longest time who would constantly worry over and be traumatized by her weight. She did everything she could from dieting to obscene amounts of exercise (and mind you we were only like 11-12 years old) and she couldn't seem to shed being a bit pudgy. Her own grandmother would pick on her for being pudgy and not conventionally attractive in her facial features. People would stop to laugh at her and call her names when she was just walking down the street. Myself, I would have people lean out of their cars as they drove past to shout at me that I was ugly or something to the same effect. It seriously damages your self esteem, far moreso than being catcalled or having your beauty remarked upon in a highly positive light. Also growing up I often received this same abuse and criticism from my own mother and her boyfriends and friends. They were always more than happy to point out that I was subpar in the looks department and felt the need to actively mock me for something outside of my control.

Fast forward to after high school has ended and my face has reached the point where I am mature and my body has been through puberty, and I actually turned out to be quite nice looking. Suddenly boys and girls alike were scrambling over themselves to get dates with me, people were much more likely to approach me to be friendly and make small talk to become friends. I had men offering to be my sugar daddy and pay me to literally just go on dates with them where they'd buy me nice clothes and jewelry and just about anything I wanted. I never got invested in makeup or anything so this is all entirely based on my natural looks. When I met my husband he said he knew right away that he wanted to make me his wife both because I am in his eyes "beautiful" and also because I am (again according to him) "kind" and "humble", and he says a lot of attractive people aren't like that. He was so afraid I would reject him because in his experience women have not found him conventionally attractive. Perhaps he too had a similar childhood experience to me, because I have always found him to be adorable. But then again, I have always had some "strange" tastes when it comes to appearances according to people I know. He and his family go out of their way all the time to tell me that I am pretty, beautiful, cute, etc. all the damn time.

I could make a much longer post like @LastFlowers depicting all the pitfalls of being ugly vs. all the advantages of being attractive but I just don't have the energy for that. Suffice to say that while it is despicable humans judge based on appearance alone, we are unfortunately a species that heavily relies on sight and how we view things in the world. And once you accept that you can learn to play things to your advantage rather than sit around and think about how unfair it is life works the way it works ... if there's advantage to be had. And in my experience the conventionally attractive has far, far more advantage than those who are considered "ugly" or deformed. It's the difference between having an Uno hand full of many different colored cards and constantly getting hit with +2s and +4s vs. having a hand full of choose your own colors and giving people the +2s and +4s.
 
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magick'sgone

magick'sgone

And so on it goes....
May 16, 2019
125
Oh I assure you, they, and everyone else, know good and well that they would choose physical beauty over the opposite, they would be a complete moron to choose otherwise, and sure to regret it.



How can you possibly say being chosen for a job is not an advantage?
People having the opportunity to provide for themselves is not an advantage?
Food on the table, money in your pocket, warmth in your bed? A chance at a full blown career??

Oh the angels cry, someone is reducing you to your appearance, at least you get perks from it!
I've been reduced to my appearance my entire life and there are no prizes won to comfort myself when I lay my head to rest at night.

Listen to me-sarcasm or not-you can pick apart your privilege all day long to find little cracks in the rainbow, but even THAT is a luxury.
And could be said for just about anything and everything in life, especially if you've got a cynical mind and a critical eye.
The fact that you can even sit there and twist your good fortune into a misfortune is truly astonishing and incredibly insulting.
(So disappointing as I have found value in some of your other comments on unrelated topics.)
It is absolutely incomparable to be on the other side of the looks spectrum.
This is not apples to apples, this is apples to crab apples.


You are treated "subhuman" for being pretty!?!? My god! That must make every last one of us absolute monsters then!

Welcome to the club!

I think you are mistaking "subhuman" for "above human" as most attractive people are treated like deities, rather than the scum of the earth.


First of all, we aren't referring to physical ability, we are referring to how looking a certain way can induce mental distress, social ostracism, and isolation, thus inhibiting the person from leading a normal life, hence the "disability".

You are on the right track as some people are actually on disability benefits for things like anxiety, but it's usually generalized anxiety, not anxiety due to life circumstances (though imo both should be applicable.)

Where appearances are concerned, height is an issue with both sexes..but not in the same way.
You, as a female being "short", is not the same as a man being short.
"Short to average" is preferable for females (unless you've got the looks and dream to be a runway model) while "average to tall" is preferable for males (unless you have a dream of competing in the Kentucky Derby..a lower height tends to allow a lower weight.)
And to note, I am not including the extremes of dwarfism or gigantism-both of which deserve a separate category and consideration.

You might as well attempt to compare cup sizes with men if you're saying your relatively average/veering on short height is comparable to a man's.
I am barely an inch taller than you and I've rarely made a fuss about my height, except that I wanted to be shorter, as so many women brag about being "smol". (Gag me)
(Hate to break it to you but men are using you as an arm rest because they find you cute, not because they consider you subhuman furniture. Take your own advice and call them out on it, walk away, it's far more feasible than an ugly person being forced to walk away from a job opportunity that will literally pay their rent.)

You are really reaching if you're saying it's an annoyance because you can't reach the top shelf or-again-that you're used as an armrest (to repeat myself, how about you just move and tell them not to touch you!?)..I honestly thought you were being sarcastic (were you?) as I was reading your reasoning for not appreciating your height.
I feel like I've entered the damn twilight zone.
If you are using sarcasm to relate two things as one in the same, it's not working.

I also think the term "disability" is a hard sell because it usually refers to physical disabilities where you can't live independently, in some manner or another.
Therein may lie your confusion.
^
What OP is referring to-I believe- is not necessarily that, but rather the push for the unattractive to be a protected class, and for help to be available to them, with allowances made for their detriments.

Other classes (such as race, sex, religious denomination, etc) are afforded leniency and protection against discrimination that unattractive people are not afforded.
(Those who marry and procreate are similarly given rewards by the government and their employers, to the dismay and exhaustion of those who must pick up their slack.)
Which is all quite laughable considering people have more control over their wombs (or penises) and religion than their natural born appearance.

Lookism, the longest standing and most pervasive -ism, is just about the only one that has yet to be afforded the fight for equal treatment.
We are barred from acting in a racist manner, a sexist manner, we are reprimanded if we slut-shame or fat-shame, yet ugly-shaming somehow slipped through the cracks.

The problem is, that being unattractive is SO detrimental and off-putting, that most people, even those who are dealt a bad hand-find it difficult to assert their disadvantage, as in doing so they must willingly label themselves as 'ugly'.
A trait that the mind often works to avoid naming, even within one's own self, as it
is the last thing any person wants to be.

And the rest of society must also do away with the platitudes and the "everyone is beautiful" lies that they spread to save their own face, to absolve them of guilt, and to avoid being the "bad guy" by imparting the truth, and thus avoiding the necessary acknowledgement and sympathy that the unattractive have had withheld from them.

These reasons likely contribute to why physical alterations have advanced more than society's ability to remain blind and impartial to another person's outer shell.
It's so hardwired, it's in the subconscious as well as the conscious mind, we must work very diligently to avoid the instant judgement that occurs when we lay our eyes upon another human being.
We must be willing to embody and assess the difficult truth-with due respect-instead of denying its existence and gaslighting those who suffer its perils.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, to anyone who wants to make being "pretty" into an entity equal to being "ugly" or the like, I have this to say to you:

Enough.

You need to cut the shit.

I was initially not going to involve myself in this topic, as I usually do, because it is too fucking exhausting to rehash the pain with those who have never experienced it themselves.

But there is always someone(s) who feels so entitled as to come into a thread that has nothing to do with them, just to dismiss or trivialize the OP's predicament.

Why do you feel the need to do that?
(and by "you", I am here on referring to ANY naysayer of this issue, on this site, or otherwise, who feels the need to minimize or stomp on something they fail to fathom. It's becoming a major problem and a point of contention. It is bathed in hypocrisy and much worse, and I am SICK of it.
Every. Fucking. Time.

So let me speak to the open air, and to any who have pulled this crap before and will so pull it again.

Why?

Is it that you felt your privilege being attacked and didn't want to lose the pity-party spotlight, along with every other coddling action that society affords you?

Hmm?

You don't see me going into threads about missing limbs and moaning about how having all my appendages weighs me down, how people expect me to open doors for them and carry heavy baggage, how I get a paper cut and sometimes people yank my extremities..oh WOE IS ME, for I am as bad off as an amputee!
...
Do you see the ridiculousness of what you are doing?
You are the wealthy preaching to the penniless.
The grass is NOT greener on both sides.
Only on yours, does the sun ever shine.
You are acting in a preposterous manner that reeks of the very privilege you are attempting to deny.

There is a reason you feel you can even do what you are doing, which I rarely see occur in any other type of thread about any other type of problem, even if such other plights are arguably less damaging.

And that is because 'you'-and others like you-are used to people allowing it.
Your false halo is in full effect, simply because you look the way you do.
So that very history shines through your veneer, even on an anonymous forum (it's even more prevalent on social media like FB and Instagram).
Maybe you don't realize it, or choose not to, because you've never had to live without, but let me clue you in on a few things.

I, as someone who was born unattractive and has had my face & body further ravaged and damaged, to the point of barely being able to get enough oxygen, condemn your bullshit.

You think harassment only applies to you!?
(this is a point I often see self-applied to the attractive)

Try being treated like less than an animal, not just by means of withholding a humane death, but by means of forcing an inhuman(e) life, by the nature of your very flesh and bone.

Try never being someone's priority.

Try living each day as either invisible or insulted.

Try having people go out of their way just to let you know they're not interested, even if you gave no hints to suggest you were into them.

Try watching sales/service people-just about the only people you are still forced to interact with-treat the person ahead of you with diligence and care, while barely making eye contact with you when it's your turn to pay or complain.
Try witnessing the dichotomy first hand, how suddenly they become unwilling to afford you the same treatment as the person before you.

Try having doctors half-ass their assiduity and even their surgical techniques, because they don't see you as worth the effort, but rather a "lost cause".

Try resorting to starving yourself to the point that you resemble a concentration camp victim, because it's literally the only bodily thing you could control as a child.

Try playing with makeup and wearing what you truly want to wear-or expressing yourself in any open way-only for people to make it known that it only brings a negative contrast to your ugly face and body-like lipstick on a pig.

Try having people constantly take it upon themselves to "put you in your place."
..Furthermore, try being confident and watch the mob foam at the mouth to tear you down because they can't bear the thought of an ugly person being anything but painfully insecure!

Try having people in SUVs drive along side you and cackle in disgust as they throw trash out the window at your pedestrian ass.

Try being bullied so severely that you had to leave school and give up the only pride you managed to construct and work for.

Try being told your very existence causes people to vomit, just for standing there, just for inhabiting a body you had no say in.

Try being persecuted and tormented for your unchangeable mien: overtly, covertly, to your face, behind your back, online, in public, among crowds- by peers, relatives, children, and adults alike.

Try having your own family reject something as simple as a hug, because your physicality repulses them..and then go on to watch them embrace every single other person of your brood.

Try being the odd man out, even in platonic relationships, for-yet again-the reason of your worth being measured by way of your poor looks.

Try having your gender mistaken simply because you don't meet the standards of said gender.

Try being laughed at by groups of people, over and over again, like a monkey in a zoo.

Try shaking in fear over giving the most benign of opinions, because you know if anyone disagrees with you, there is an easy way for them to discard you and insult you-via low blows regarding your unfortunate appearance.

Try wearing your weakness and being encased by it 24/7, like the bars of a prison pressed so close that you can't exhale.

Try being scared of sexual harassment or assault, not because you're so alluring, but because you are an easy target who will not be believable: ever heard of ugly women being made fun of and dismissed when they come forward with such claims?
It happens all the damn time.
(It's easy to overpower someone so vulnerable, not just physically, but mentally, as they've been constantly conditioned to overcompensate for their appearance with unassuming friendliness.)
In the same vein, try being taken advantage of, used and manipulated in general, for the very same reasoning that you fear sticking up for yourself, because people view you as an easy target with visible diffidence to exploit.

I could go on and on and on and supersede everything in this list with even more traumatic consequences of being so far from 'pretty'.

But the main takeaway is:

Try being treated as 'less than' in any and every conceivable and lived scenario.


Try it.


Because downplaying or destroying your good looks is pretty damn easy-much, much easier than improving upon them.
If dousing myself in petrol and lighting my flesh ablaze were to make me beautiful, I would do it in a heart beat.

So if being pretty is so bad, what's stopping you?
What's stopping you from shaving your head and losing the primping, really..
I could think of a thousand ways to further fuck my appearance, so what's your excuse?

People put themselves through immense pain and torture to obtain even a fraction of the privilege you were bequeathed at birth.
That's a fact and you need to take a ride on your high horse and get the fuck over it.

And before 'you' say anything else-by affirming your privilege, I am NOT denying your ability to suffer with unrelated issues.
Something some of you beautiful people fail to grasp.
If you made a post about your own problems that didn't try to turn a privilege into one of those said problems, I would support you and I would not take it upon myself to blow up your thread, as you have done so with so many OP's in the past, and present (& probably, to my dismay, the future.)

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

As another member mentioned-
There are studies far and wide about how your appearance affects the way you are treated, even in the workplace, people are discriminated against, no matter how qualified they are, they are often pushed to the side for someone better looking, even if the qualifications are the same or very much depleted (on the good looking person's part.)
Even those accused of crimes..well, the more attractive are given the most leniency, the least attractive are convicted on a larger scale, regardless of evidence that appeals to their innocence.
(Not unlike the issue of race.)

Oh-and before any pretty women call me an incel or a misogynist (for some weird reason the topic of lookism is always attributed to that group)-
I am a woman, a fucking asexual one-if it wasn't clear by now-so I know all the womanly woes and more. (And I still suffer, regardless of the pursuit of a romantic/sexual relationship, in which-even I admit-the shallow check boxes at the door, are the most egregious.)
But I also stand behind anyone of ANY gender, who suffers by not meeting the ideals of this insanely superficial society.
(This includes the trans community.)

I am in excruciating physical discomfort and pain every day I am alive, but as I have said before (in other threads), that is NOTHING compared to the turmoil induced by being objectively unattractive. (And yes, there is an objective standard, also thoroughly studied and made abundantly clear in both real life and the scientific community, as well as the fine arts.)
Do not underestimate its ability to color each and every aspect of life, nor its proclivity to set off a chain reaction, a domino effect-if you will-that robs you of everything that life is worth.
And do not trivialize the ability for the opposite to make a person's life and pursuit of happiness a thousand times easier.

Being rightfully uncomfortable in your own skin and having society mirror that discomfort tenfold, is as good a reason as any to CTB.

Make no mistake and do not twist my words, attractive people are perfectly capable of suffering and I have met plenty of sweet people who are also visibly appealing who have been through some tough shit (though they usually aren't the type to deny the benefit of their looks)-still, the odds are in their favor, as it goes with most privileges.
Even I have some privileges that I will readily admit-like a roof over my head, and the ability to hide myself from further humiliation and torment while I prepare for death.
Some people don't even have that much.

So if you want to continue to scoff at these facts, then I have nothing more to add except to say Again, enough is ENOUGH.

I am sick of this shit.

Every single pitfall you can claim for being attractive, I can also claim, and THEN SOME, with no silver lining at the end of the day for me to feel good about.

It's like this, you've got an ice cream cone and I don't.
You get to enjoy your cone and experience a stomach's content, sure people may envy the ice cream sliding down your throat, but that envy is their burden to bear, not yours. And at the end of the day, you're still full, while people like me are left starving.
If you don't want to deal with it, then throw the damn cone away and stop complaining, because I couldn't get my hands on one, no matter how hard I try.

And that is the fucking difference.
  • I don't know how I can thank you enough for this. In one post you have encapsulated a lifetime's worth of relatable thoughts, feelings, and experiences into a singular, beautifully poignant summary. It's depressing to think it will be just another post lost amongst the ever expanding cloud of chatter on a suicide forum. It deserves so much more than that. For what it's worth, thank you.
 
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Futile

Futile

Tired of being lonely
Sep 3, 2020
499
Every time a thread like this come up that there's an immediate rush of people normsplaining to us that our live aren't actually that bad and whatnot. Why do they always do that? Can't they just accept that they're bron privileged and be glad for it?

The fight against lookism is the only true social fight left, but also the hardest to win
 
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ExistentialEntropy

ExistentialEntropy

we all go home eventually
Jul 4, 2020
82
Looks like the suffering olympics have arrived. You bring up incontinence and "impedance" (did you mean impotence?)
as reasons we should be grateful to be alive.
That's basically the "starving children in Africa" argument.
You could use that for just about anything, on just about anyone.
It means nothing in the context of the types of problems people bring up on this site, it's actually something the pro-lifers tend to use. Shameful.

Try telling every other person here that 'line' about how all the people who can't wipe their own ass would be waiting in the wings to spit at their trauma and take their place.
There's a lot of contradictory and telling subtleties, even within that statement, that the statement alone does not properly sum up.
Nothing is ever as simple as "You can shit on your own, unlike me, therefore I want your life!"
Who is to say they wouldn't also end up succumbing to the very problems they traded theirs for?
Who is to say these people didn't already live better lives than the rest of us, prior to their need for medical assistance.
You have to make that distinction, along with quite a few others, as your initial statement alone is too broad.

Blame the victim.
That's what you're doing.
Saying people who realize they are unattractive and suffering the consequences just have an "over" critical eye, when there is nothing "overly" critical or "worst critic" about it.
It's just a normal assessment of a far from ideal situation.
We don't choose to focus on such things, we can't exactly jump out of our skin at any time, we aren't blind and we can see when something isn't right or a hinderance to the pursuit of living well.
And if we were to ever forget, the rest of humanity would be sure to remind us, as they already so often do.

I don't know what universe you reside in, but under no usual circumstances can anybody go about the world just taking what they want from life.
The people who come the closest are the ones with the heftiest privileges-and even they can't have a say over every other thing they want from the world.
These weighty privileges,
Attractiveness being one of them.
Ability to use the toilet-not so much.

This has nothing to do with vanity either, just for the record.
That's wholly mistaken.
People who deal with this degree of impairment and agony from looking a way in which others treat them unfairly and unequally, are usually some of the least shallow or vain individuals to walk the earth.
They know how it feels so they tend to exercise restraint when they feel their minds leaning in to judge another person's looks for being worse for the wear.
We are not narcissists admiring ourselves in the mirror, the preoccupation is not indulgent, it's involuntarily disparaging.

..So you are basically saying we just have to "look on the bright side" and be grateful for what we do have and that this is not a problem worth suffering over in and of itself?
That is absolutely preposterous and atrocious of you to say.
Just Instagram platitudes and falsehoods created by people who don't know the pain of others.

Besides, don't you understand that one problem often leads to more?
Maybe you should read my comment about just how easily one loss breeds another, because after this comment, I'm done here, just futile, (it also amazes me how certain other people are so invested in a topic where they don't even have ground to stand on, no horse in the race, yet they're set on lighting the whole thing to flames, just because their privilege pinkie got stubbed. Juvenile.)

Your entire tone is condescending.
Bringing up the perceived ugliness, as if it isn't actually so. Vile and pompous patronizing.
Are you ugly? "Perceived" is a dismissive term and you speak of something so pseudo-analytically even though you have never lived it.
Also "feel ugly"? ..it's not just a feeling, it's a reality.
Insecurity doesn't mean you were actually unattractive.
Everyone has insecurities, but not everyone has a legitimate physical appearance detriment that warrants said insecurities.
Others do, objectively speaking.

You bring up how you realized others don't really give a fuck what you look like.
And in a way, I agree with you.
Because yea, most people who are not you, who do not have to live inside your body, who do not have to suffer the consequences of that body-do not actually have any investment in how good or bad you look. They're worried about themselves.
But they're worried about themselves LOOKING GOOD, terrified to become the thing they judge with their eyes at every in-person interaction.
They don't give a shit about what you look like while also giving just about every shit.
They are still judging, they are still measuring worth with their vision, they are still treating one level of attractiveness far differently than the other.
That might not be "caring" what you look like exactly, but also, it IS.
We are talking about two different forms of giving a damn-or not giving one.

It's not about not liking ourselves either,
I actually like myself quite fine, it's my flesh that's the problem, I'm just along for the ride.
It's quite despicable that people always equate the dislike for one's own body with the dislike of one's own self.
I had no choice in what I look like, so in that way, it has nothing to do with 'me'.
Give me a choice in the matter, and maybe then you can start defining who I am by my face and body.
Just another subtext of lookism.

Let me ask you something, when you get a wart on your foot, do you suddenly become one with the wart?
Embrace the wart?
Praise the wart?
Nope.
You freeze the fucker off your foot because it inconveniences you, it disgusts you and others, it gets in the way every time you take a step.
Me identifying by my body in this form, is basically the same as me identifying with a single vein in my wrist.
It's the same stupid thing.

People have to be comfortable in their skin in order to have any quality of life, we should be able to identify with our physical appearance as much as possible as it is literally how the world's eye views us, why would we ever want to be constantly mistaken for something we are not?
But many are so far from an ideal humansuit that signals their inner self, where nothing short of successfully altering the body to match the mind, will suffice.
It is a similar dysphoria as in transgenderism, not dysmorphia, but body dysphoria. Warranted.
So not only is it an issue within society, but also within one's own individualism, a matter of someone feeling freedom in their own skin.

It's not "the shallow beauty standard of the social media era" and you damn well know it. Lookism has been around as long as humans walked the earth.
It's the most basic and raw of prejudices.
I need nothing but the real world, devoid of social media, to shove my existence toward the trenches.
Social media is simply expediting the issue and openly and inter-connectedly portraying it.
If you've got a grasp on the objective standards of what is aesthetically pleasing in the human form, then you could relatively easily prove where you stand in terms of general physical attractiveness. It's a science, there's nothing subjective about it.
You may find levels of subjectivity within it, but the hard lines of what we are talking about, are largely immutable.
It's part of the reason we are able to instantly assess most people (even when not understanding why) on how good looking or not they appear to be, whether we, personally, are sexually attracted to them or not.

And who are you to say what should or should not affect people in such a damaging way or what can or can't inhibit someone from getting through their day?
I assure you plenty of people find difficulties getting through their day from this issue.
I see posts all the time about problems that I would trade mine for, it doesn't necessarily mean one of us doesn't deserve to suffer as much as we are.
One man's monster is another man's mouse, and vice versa.
We are not all affected in the same degree by the same things.
(and I'm talking about disadvantages, not advantages..the latter of which the desire to complain should be mute.)

What if I told you if all I had to deal with was nerve damage and chronic fatigue (I already have things that are equivalent FYI), I would spring to my senses and walk out my door smiling in the sun, grinning ear to ear like the world was my oyster, never to complain another day in my life.
Because guess what? I can honestly say it!
Does that make it okay for me to tell you that you should be grateful that's all you have to deal with? No!
But you think that's okay.
Plus, you make the assumption that everyone who is ugly is suddenly free from every other problem, that they "only" have to deal with ugliness, which is, in most cases, erroneous and fallacious.
Not exactly.

I specifically said that I wasn't belittling the OP's problems. I am well aware that, for many, it's not as simple as being grateful for the stuff that isn't messed up about oneself. People have to decide that for themselves and your mileage may vary. I was simply offering my own experience and perspective, without trying to force it upon anyone.

Personally I always felt like as long as I could do things that someone else could only dream of, I would feel guilty throwing that gift away. I'm not suggesting for one second that this is some kind of moral standard that people should be held to before they get to CTB. I merely offer it as my own experience for what it's worth. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone or judge anyone.

Peace.
 
magick'sgone

magick'sgone

And so on it goes....
May 16, 2019
125
Updated requirements for registration on sanctionedsuicide.com;

Be unable to wipe own ass

All other applicants will be denied.
 
J

Journeytoletgo

Broken and hated 7-14 years long overdue
May 14, 2018
1,608
Few people acknowledge the effects lookism has on ugly people because no one cares about the difficulties we face due to our appearance.

As you've described, being unattractive can make life a living hell. Leaving the house, interacting with others, forming relationships, looking in the mirror, and simply existing in one's own skin can become nearly impossible tasks when one is ugly.
Yup it is horrible
 
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danlippers67

danlippers67

Member
Dec 14, 2021
46
I think ppl like me shouldn't be expected to live a normal life. I know there some short or/and ugly ppl who function well but it doesn't mean most of us are like that. I've a sever social anxiety mainly because of my appearance. I want to re-enter university and regularly go for a wake or meet with friends/other ppl but I can't do that while I mostly feel worthless. Sometimes when I look at the mirror I see a human being but mostly I don't. Of course the best solution is to die but until I kill myself I shouldn't be expected to do well. My friends once asked me why I don't talk to women. They joking asked if I'm gay. It was a very awkward situation. I think anyone with a clear eye should know why. I blabber some thing but didn't say what I truly feel. I was in a boy school from late KG to 12th grade. I had little contact with women other than family/relatives. When you add my sub-humanity to this then it would be difficult for me to talk to women or even men. I had my first and only irl female friend in late 2019 but we only started talking because she initiated it. Now we aren't friends. I'm 24 but I shouldn't be expected to have a degree or find love or regularly leave the house or be around ppl. Until I ctb (hopefully next month) I will continue to rot at home.
Not even gonna lie i feel like getting leg extension surgery sometimes. I actually know a guy who knows a guy who did it and he claims its the most painful thing he ever went through but years of being mocked is driving me crazy
 
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