Today I've met the psychologist who thinks I am going to ctb it was so awkward

[noname223]

2 psychologists have given up on my due to chronic unfixable suicidal thoughts and my unability to work. They don't put me in the psych ward forever that's only a myth becasue it's not acute rather a suicide in the future. It was so damn awkward. I think he still worries about me. He was really the one psychologist who was very engaged in my case. He did not look good when we've met. He knows that my problems (bipolar/poverty/strong suicidality) probably cannot be fixed.
We had like a group meeting in our job coach group. The topic was independence, growing up and life goals. Damn this made me depressed. At every topic I just thought yes I cannot do that I rather will kill me. This does not work the other issue does not work either.
At one point he mentioned that he also knows that there is someone in this group with a very brutale fate. He knows I was abused and that caused almost all my problems.
Damn I am so glad I have this forum. Psychiatry sucks when they treat suicidality. They just don't know how to handle it. They should engage in trying to enable assisted suicide for cases like me. Instead you have to buy stuff illegaly and get stigmatized. Also my current psychologist revealed he sometimes does not know what to answer when someone says I want to kill me. I did not openly speak with him about the topic.
At least I cannot pretend this first psychologist did not care.
In forums like this I feel so understood. I think it is hard to grasp for healthy people the strong wish to die every single day. Nevertheless pro-lifers want to shut down the only place (except 2-3 friends) where I can be me.

 

[FuneralCry]

I think some problems are simply unfixable and no amount of treatment can make them better, even if people want to help. That is just a fact of life. Assisted suicide should be a basic human right as so much can go wrong in this life and for many people there is no hope. Some pro lifers will never understand as they haven't suffered themselves.

 

[WornOutLife]

Oh God! Sorry about that.

I also feel very glad of having SS. I mean, where else can we be...US!!!????
Goddamn society!! How are we supposed to get better if every single thing about suicide is censored?

#SSrocks

 

[logan]

This is a medical problem and a social problem.
The death penalty has also been abolished in most countries.
Every person should be allowed to determine his or her own life.
It is good if doctors do not carelessly help desperate people to kill themselves as quickly as possible.
But if there are really good reasons to want to end one's life then it should be possible to get support.
In the case of unwanted pregnancy, this is often already possible.

 

[Wisdom3_1-9]

This is a medical problem and a social problem.
The death penalty has also been abolished in most countries.
Every person should be allowed to determine his or her own life.
It is good if doctors do not carelessly help desperate people to kill themselves as quickly as possible.
But if there are really good reasons to want to end one's life then it should be possible to get support.
In the case of unwanted pregnancy, this is often already possible.

But your post raises some other issues that society would have great difficulty addressing.

1) The issue of the death penalty is different because that's the case of society deciding that one of its members needs to die. There are huge ethical complications with that, which is why so many countries have pulled away from it.

2) Abortion is another ethical dilemma, because the mother is deciding to terminate the "life" of her unborn baby. People differ on when "life" begins and whether or not terminating a pregnancy is actually murder or not. This debate is one of the most vicious ongoing debates in so many countries, particularly in former Christian-dominated societies.

3) The issue of suicide should be less controversial (though it isn't), because a person is making the decision for themselves. I agree with you. Everyone should be allowed to make the choice for themselves. We should have autonomy over our own lives. I believe there should be very little debate about that, but obviously, others disagree.

4) The really sticky situation becomes the case of assistance, and that in itself has several subcategories of complications…

a) How easy should it be for people to commit suicide? Should society enable people who want to commit suicide? I think this is perhaps the least controversial of the sub-issues, though it's still ethically grey.​

b) Should medical professionals assist in the actual process or even offer advice regarding suicide? It would likely violate the Hippocratic Oath, so this is probably ethically wrong.​

c) You talk about people having good reasons to commit suicide. This really complicates things, because then society would need to agree on benchmarks for what constitutes a good reason. This gets really dicey, because you would have as many opinions as you have people. There is no good solution, because there will always need to be some governing body making the decision for others in drawing the line somewhere.​

I understand why society has a hard time with this. As soon as we think that there is a "line", then we need to find some way of determining where the line is. It's easier for society to just say, "suicide is wrong" and forbid it entirely. Many of us on SS would rather society say that everyone can determine their own fate, regardless of situation. That's a really difficult argument to sell to societies that have for millennia been governed by certain religious and philosophical ideals. We're fighting a really uphill battle.

 

[Thatdude]

I think the reason why most Dr. treat the idea of offing yourself as alien is how society has pushed the view point. Looking back when it comes to basic things like religion, wanting better wages, women/men rights, etc you will find highly similar things. If society looks down on what is being pushed, then something is wrong with you.

Now do I think they should do a 180? No. But I think society should be more open about the idea.

I was watching something yesterday where some granddaughter was interviewing her granddad. It was a fluff thing, but he mention in there that since his wife died he has been "terribly lonely". Instead of dealing with the issue, she started talking about something else. This reminded me a lot of what most do. You can flat out tell them the reason why you want to die (poverty, lonely, etc.) But the far majority of the time they ignore it, and the rest of the time they tend to give you a copy and paste answer which doesn't work for almost anyone to start with, or maybe link you to some hotline. I've honestly never seen a single time where someone said I want to die due to extreme lonely, and the person hooks them up with someone or gives them a bunch of friends.

 

[Divine Trinity]

But your post raises some other issues that society would have great difficulty addressing.

1) The issue of the death penalty is different because that's the case of society deciding that one of its members needs to die. There are huge ethical complications with that, which is why so many countries have pulled away from it.

2) Abortion is another ethical dilemma, because the mother is deciding to terminate the "life" of her unborn baby. People differ on when "life" begins and whether or not terminating a pregnancy is actually murder or not. This debate is one of the most vicious ongoing debates in so many countries, particularly in former Christian-dominated societies.

3) The issue of suicide should be less controversial (though it isn't), because a person is making the decision for themselves. I agree with you. Everyone should be allowed to make the choice for themselves. We should have autonomy over our own lives. I believe there should be very little debate about that, but obviously, others disagree.

4) The really sticky situation becomes the case of assistance, and that in itself has several subcategories of complications…

a) How easy should it be for people to commit suicide? Should society enable people who want to commit suicide? I think this is perhaps the least controversial of the sub-issues, though it's still ethically grey.​

b) Should medical professionals assist in the actual process or even offer advice regarding suicide? It would likely violate the Hippocratic Oath, so this is probably ethically wrong.​

c) You talk about people having good reasons to commit suicide. This really complicates things, because then society would need to agree on benchmarks for what constitutes a good reason. This gets really dicey, because you would have as many opinions as you have people. There is no good solution, because there will always need to be some governing body making the decision for others in drawing the line somewhere.​

I understand why society has a hard time with this. As soon as we think that there is a "line", then we need to find some way of determining where the line is. It's easier for society to just say, "suicide is wrong" and forbid it entirely. Many of us on SS would rather society say that everyone can determine their own fate, regardless of situation. That's a really difficult argument to sell to societies that have for millennia been governed by certain religious and philosophical ideals. We're fighting a really uphill battle.

In the US owning a gun is considered a fundamental civil right yet most people don't own one. You have (at least on paper) the right to vote, protest, and request non-classified documents from the state, yet the vast majority of people haven't and never will use these privileges. Most Americans never even travel outside of the country in their lifetime despite pretty much universal welcoming of US tourist around the world.

To the contrary alchohol, marijuana, abortions, and domestic violence/sexual assault are/were all universally condemned and heavily punishable acts (potentially leading to execution) yet are basically normal activities in society. My point to all this being that when people want to do something badly enough, laws and societal views on their actions have negligible impact on stopping it.

Meaning if suicide was to universally be considered a "personal choice", you're not going to see 10% of the population drop like flies. The problem with acceptance of suicide is it gives a major tool to the marginalized and most exploited people in the economy. Political and business figures would now have to offer something of substance to the common person's life or else they'll face logistical nightmares when large amounts of people do ctb in response to them fucking us in the ass every chance they get. In the US about 40k suicide annually, try managing a government with 3-5x that figure without improving people's lives.

Our lives have no value, only our labour. It's why I consider suicide the highest form of protesting.

Edit: 40k annually officially, taking into account non-immediate acts (death from despair) and "accidents" it's probably 2-4x higher.

 

[LoveTakesManyForms]

In the US owning a gun is considered a fundamental civil right yet most people don't own one. You have (at least on paper) the right to vote, protest, and request non-classified documents from the state, yet the vast majority of people haven't and never will use these privileges. Most Americans never even travel outside of the country in their lifetime despite pretty much universal welcoming of US tourist around the world.

To the contrary alchohol, marijuana, abortions, and domestic violence/sexual assault are/were all universally condemned and heavily punishable acts (potentially leading to execution) yet are basically normal activities in society. My point to all this being that when people want to do something badly enough, laws and societal views on their actions have negligible impact on stopping it.

Meaning if suicide was to universally be considered a "personal choice", you're not going to see 10% of the population drop like flies. The problem with acceptance of suicide is it gives a major tool to the marginalized and most exploited people in the economy. Political and business figures would now have to offer something of substance to the common person's life or else they'll face logistical nightmares when large amounts of people do ctb in response to them fucking us in the ass every chance they get. In the US about 40k suicide annually, try managing a government with 3-5x that figure without improving people's lives.

Our lives have no value, only our labour. It's why I consider suicide the highest form of protesting.

Edit: 40k annually officially, taking into account non-immediate acts (death from despair) and "accidents" it's probably 2-4x higher.

Sorry, I know this is an old thread, but I couldn't help but say HEAR HEAR!
We are but cattle to big business and govt., and suicide policy reflects this, all virtue signaling and pretending it's about helping people notwithstanding.
It's a new low to force people into positions of despair and painful death merely for profit. A truly disgusting new low.
Repugnant.

 

[Pentobarbital_Plz]

Our lives have no value, only our labour. It's why I consider suicide the highest form of protesting.

REAL rebels catch that BUS