To not exist will always be the more ideal option.

[FuneralCry]

This is the reality, there is no escaping from the fact that existence has and will always be such an useless and unnecessary burden and that to not exist will always be the ideal situation, preferable to any kind of life. People place so much value and emphasis on life, even supposedly suicidal people push the idea that life is the more preferable option and that being suicidal is something that people should strive to 'recover' from and some even push the pro suffering belief of wishing to gatekeep suicide for those who fit into a certain criteria of life circumstances. These views will always seem irrational to me as where is the value to struggling all for the sake of it, and it does disturb me how people glorify life. And why should suicide even have to be a last resort, for me it will always be the most rational and first choice, to die is superior to everything else as I hate any form of suffering and simply just being aware of this world is such a curse, it's awful to even have the ability to be conscious in the first place. Only perfection lies in the absence of everything, because in non existence there is no desire or need for anything and we lack the capacity to suffer. To be unaware of this world is such a beautiful thing to me, the thought of never having to think about any of this again is such a relief.

People spend their lives trying to solve problems and reduce suffering as much as possible, but it's like they don't realise that life itself will always be the true problem. At least to me life itself is the thing that I've always had a problem with. Any positive views towards existence will always be a delusion as they invalidate all of the endless torture that continues to exist.

But yes, the existence of life is incredibly tragic. To create so much agony when there was never a need for it in the first place is a horrific thing. With life always comes the potential to experience suffering to such an extreme extent which is why non existence will always be the most ideal option and it's the only thing that is comforting, the thought of being permanently gone. As humans we deserve the option of a peaceful and straightforward death, it's the least that we deserve after being forced here against our wishes. This cruel, prison like existence that places emphasis on prolonging suffering will always be completely undesirable.

 

[Rational man]

The human experiment is failed . Humankind cannot solve wars, famine and pollution , eg. Etc. W e have inhabited this planet for just thousands of Years but we no more intelligent than Neolithic man. We all die in the end somehow. Life is a stuggle. Im sorry about your pain

 

[rationaltake]

It's arrogant to call others "supposedly suicidal" when you have no idea of their circumstances. It's not up to you to undermine people who are suffering and to judge who is and who is not suicidal.

 

[Jarni]

Life could be beautiful if only we could decide when we leave. Even with a very happy life, unfortunately, we pay the beautiful moments by suffering and death anyway, sooner or later. In addition, a human being is never sarisfied. We always want more, so the suffering at some degree is always there with us.
So beautiful life till you can make it so and after that a "red button" of instant exit, would be ideal. Human beings are whose who have the capacity of create lots of useful technologies but as usual by too much dogmas, wrong ideas, governement obsession with capitalism, money etc we induce the suffering to ourselves. When our society has everyting for a good exit.
But it is also the problem with medecine. Its aim is only to prolonge the suffer with chronic illnesses and not to treat them. We could treat many deseases, but money money money....

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

This is the reality, there is no escaping from the fact that existence has and will always be such an useless and unnecessary burden and that to not exist will always be the ideal situation, preferable to any kind of life. People place so much value and emphasis on life, even supposedly suicidal people push the idea that life is the more preferable option and that being suicidal is something that people should strive to 'recover' from and some even push the pro suffering belief of wishing to gatekeep suicide for those who fit into a certain criteria of life circumstances. These views will always seem irrational to me as where is the value to struggling all for the sake of it, and it does disturb me how people glorify life. And why should suicide even have to be a last resort, for me it will always be the most rational and first choice, to die is superior to everything else as I hate any form of suffering and simply just being aware of this world is such a curse, it's awful to even have the ability to be conscious in the first place. Only perfection lies in the absence of everything, because in non existence there is no desire or need for anything and we lack the capacity to suffer. To be unaware of this world is such a beautiful thing to me, the thought of never having to think about any of this again is such a relief.

People spend their lives trying to solve problems and reduce suffering as much as possible, but it's like they don't realise that life itself will always be the true problem. At least to me life itself is the thing that I've always had a problem with. Any positive views towards existence will always be a delusion as they invalidate all of the endless torture that continues to exist.

But yes, the existence of life is incredibly tragic. To create so much agony when there was never a need for it in the first place is a horrific thing. With life always comes the potential to experience suffering to such an extreme extent which is why non existence will always be the most ideal option and it's the only thing that is comforting, the thought of being permanently gone. As humans we deserve the option of a peaceful and straightforward death, it's the least that we deserve after being forced here against our wishes. This cruel, prison like existence that places emphasis on prolonging suffering will always be completely undesirable.

At any second any human or other animal can get a stroke , or blocked colon with cancer (Angelique flowers a young woman) , be kidnapped and tortured (Junko furuta), get a tapeworm infection, or 1000 other such hells which will put that animal into a state of extreme torture.

In 500 million years Life has tortured trillions of sentient beings including animals and humans. Most animals die by being eaten alive when old or injured, eaten alive by other animals, bacteria, parasites. Most humans die of painful diseases like cancer, stroke , alshiemers , arthritis, dementia , etc.

I think pro-lifers or pro-living ( those that repeatedly say that life is good ) are condoning this extreme torture of trillions of sentient beings. And they are facilitating additional births of children who will suffer regularly throughout their life. No one can guarantee that I or any human will not suffer extreme torture and pain. I'm an anti-natalist and think that having a child is imposing suffering on a human.

I for example feel that this life was imposed on me and I have been tortured for decades for what purpose none except that a DNA molecule was able to replicate around 4 billion years ago.
Every animal or human is constantly hungry , thirsty , needs shelter, safe place to sleep etc. a slave to the body.

I didn't and no one asked for this prison called life.

This is just 2 hells cancer and stroke:

Cancer is pain.

I could write many 1000 page books detailing the tortures throughout history and still ongoing, all the evil in this world, the diseases like lyme from ticks/bacteria, lewy body dementia, accidents , homelessness , starvation , depression, grief , sadness , unfullfilled needs , work, injustice , unjust inprisonment, lies, scams, all the monsters from the show Monsters inside me maybe can still be seen on youtube which show monsters inside humans like tapeworms many others . Why is all this hidden and I've only touched on the horrors in a post. Only a very long series of books can begin to touch on the nightmares that can happen in life. In the universe the only proven cause of pain and suffering is life . If a human is dead they can try to torture the corpse but it won't feel anything. But if alive then they can torture a human until the pain becomes intolerable. After Death there can be no pain, no suffering, no diseases,, no problems etc.

Having to constantly eat food or suffer the pain of hunger is slavery. Look at all the hundreds of things a human or animal has to do to satisfy this just one need hunger for food. Working , Driving to grocery, hauling groceries , cooking, cleaning , washing dishes, taking out trash , excreting out the food, and all the hundreds of problems each of those and other entails to eat the hundreds of pounds of food per year. 100,000 years ago a human couldn't even go to the grocery but had to walk miles with no shoes to kill an animal with a rock to eat it to satisfy the constant hunger.

 

[rationaltake]

Life could be beautiful if only we could decide when we leave. Even with a very happy life, unfortunately, we pay the beautiful moments by suffering and death anyway, sooner or later. In addition, a human being is never sarisfied. We always want more, so the suffering at some degree is always there with us.
So beautiful life till you can make it so and after that a "red button" of instant exit, would be ideal. Human beings are whose who have the capacity of create lots of useful technologies but as usual by too much dogmas, wrong ideas, governement obsession with capitalism, money etc we induce the suffering to ourselves. When our society has everyting for a good exit.
But it is also the problem with medecine. Its aim is only to prolonge the suffer with chronic illnesses and not to treat them. We could treat many deseases, but money money money....

You make some very good points. Very interesting post.

 

[Per Ardua Ad Astra]

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...m-members-of-the-public-on-this-issue.105098/

Dear UK members—

Please see link —

"Assisted Dying in UK" :

*UK Gov't Asking for Your Opinion*

Via *Short Survey

*Time sensitive survey

 

[Teddybear]

"Humanity" can and has always taken care of itself. So wtf should I make my decision to ctb or not to dependent on the plight of a species whose members won't even have the courtesy to stop by and take a piss on my grave? Not even if I paid the undertaker to put a wreath of urinal stones on top of it!

 

[FuneralCry]

No, my post is perfectly valid, I actually think it makes a lot of sense to call people supposedly suicidal, if they claim to be suicidal but have life valuing beliefs that they try to force onto others. If someone sees life as being so valuable and beneficial to the point that they wish to gatekeep suicide (which is a pro life belief) and they push the idea that suicidal people must try 'recovery' or whatever, it does make me question do these types of people even want to die in the first place. Are they really suffering if they say those things. Those types of views that I mentioned are very ignorant to the cruel reality of this existence and invalidating of what others go through. People who say things like that are usually privileged and/or deluded.
There's absolutely no arrogance there, it's just observations.
And if people have problems with the posts on here then nobody is forcing them to come on this website. It's just suicidal people venting.

But yes, I want that red button instant exit. I doubt life could ever really be beautiful though, that's a word that I would never ever associate with life, but there is beauty in the thought of being able to instantly exit in a peaceful way.

 

[mateodolores]

Even as a child, I had the belief that life wasn't worth living at all. I found antinatalism and efilism a couple of years ago and completely agree with the sentiment. It is like yours; life is inherent suffering and pain. I don't see a beauty in life, either. It's inherently pointless and painful in my opinion.

 

[Chinaski]

You're only actually suicidal if individual posters on this website are satisfied you've passed their eligibility criteria.

 

[bluem00n]

You're only actually suicidal if individual posters on this website are satisfied you've passed their eligibility criteria.

A simple question for you ... if you had access to a litre of N right now, what would you do ...?

 

[Chinaski]

A simple question for you ... if you had access to a litre of N right now, what would you do ...?

Lace your drinks.

 

[rationaltake]

Questioning if people even want to die in the first place? So people have to prove they want to die to be considered suicidal? How do you prove you're suicidal? Does it just depend on the number of posts?

 

[Nangijala]

No, my post is perfectly valid, I actually think it makes a lot of sense to call people supposedly suicidal, if they claim to be suicidal but have life valuing beliefs that they try to force onto others. If someone sees life as being so valuable and beneficial to the point that they wish to gatekeep suicide (which is a pro life belief) and they push the idea that suicidal people must try 'recovery' or whatever, it does make me question do these types of people even want to die in the first place. Are they really suffering if they say those things. Those types of views that I mentioned are very ignorant to the cruel reality of this existence and invalidating of what others go through. People who say things like that are usually privileged and/or deluded.
There's absolutely no arrogance there, it's just observations.

I am rather surprised by your claim that suicidal people can't have life valuing beliefs. People's lived experiences are very different, and while I am suffering right now I know that there are people out there who are capable of and deserve to live happy and fulfilling lives. It feels like you are taking the limits of your own vision to be the limits of the world. In fact I believe it is a very common theme for people who complete suicide to still hope that those that survive them go on to live fulfilling lives. To illustrate this, Kurt Cobain's suicide note signs off with: "Please keep going Courtney, for Frances. For her life, which will be so much happier without me.".

 

[FuneralCry]

I believe that the idea of a 'happy and fulfilling' life to be a myth. The idea of happiness is a delusion, it feels so wrong to glorify life to that extent and I doubt that humans are ever really that satisfied in their lives, at least it seems that way to me. And after all everything in life is determined by chance with no limit as to how much we can potentially suffer. There's no such thing as someone really being capable for a life that is great, as factors out of our control can cause us to suffer to such an extreme extent, it's just the way that life is. As already been posted by someone else, nobody can guarantee that they won't be tortured in some way in the future, and this view just supports what this whole thread is about, and is why non existence is the most ideal option.

And also, nobody has to prove that they want to die to be seen as suicidal. That idea is not what I was suggesting, what I was saying is that if people are going to make pro life type comments that invalidate all of the suffering in this world then those types of people will not seem very suicidal to me. It's as simple as that really and this view makes sense.

 

[rationaltake]

It's a fact that some people lead happy and fulfilling lives. People must be delusional if they think nobody is ever happy. Some people are suicidal and some people aren't. That's just an observation.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

So, we're going to need to put qualifiers on being suicidal now, such as supposedly suicidal, marginally suicidal, wishfully suicidal, debatably suicidal, assumedly suicidal, feignedly suicidal, allegedly suicidal, ashamedly suicidal, resignedly suicidal, and presumably suicidal (FC)?

Sorry FC, I couldn't resist. My bad.

 

[FuneralCry]

Seriously, it's pathetic to troll a suicide forum in such a weird way. Grow up. It disturbs me how some people on here see the suffering of others as being a joke, like it may be amusing to you but many of us actually want to die yet struggle to leave this world, but no, who cares about that, as long as bored people are enjoying themselves on a suicide forum, as that's totally the important thing!. I wish they would just give us the option of legalised N so this awful site with all the endless repeating threads about methods can finally end.

And also as well as that there always seems to be someone on here arrogantly lecturing others about 'happiness' on a suicide forum of all places. I'm sorry but I'm pretty sure that most of the suicidal people on here didn't join this site looking to be arrogantly lectured and looked down upon like that. Like why are people even here if they go on about happiness in suffering people's threads, it's strange to me. But after all deluded people can go and enjoy their fake happiness as much as they want, but they will just suffer more eventually. I could never envy those types of people. It's irrational to want to get old and suffer which is why I admire those who ctb so much as they are freeing themselves from this awful, horrific world.

 

[Superdeterminist]

I would rather live as one of those incredibly lucky people whom I envy, than never exist. But I agree that overall, it would be better if nothing existed to begin with, since good lives don't justify bad ones. And it doesn't make sense to speak of individuals in isolation, because we're all necessary and interconnected parts of it.

The quixotic idea of "let's get rid of all the bad stuff and just keep the good stuff!" is forever unreachable, because most of the good stuff crucially depends on bad stuff happening. The job he gets is the one you lose. The girl he gets is the one you lose. The wealth he has, is only wealth by contrast to the relative poverty of his neighbours.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Who exactly is trolling this suicide forum? I'm here in the interim because 1) I'm not ready to go yet as I haven't got enough of my affairs in order 2) I think there is still a lot of valuable information that might be beneficial (to me) in case my method of choice doesn't work out, or it fails me 3) I try and offer any help I can to others who seek input, whether it be for methods, general advice, or just support.

I don't see anyone who considers suffering as a joke on these forums. Everything isn't all doom and gloom, even if we're here to find methods to off ourselves. It's so very, very sad that some users on this forum have reached a point of such extreme nihilism that they can no longer comprehend that there are people in this world that truly enjoy life, and have wonderful things in their lives, that makes life worth living. Just because someone doesn't see a point to life anymore doesn't mean others need follow that same viewpoint. I hope I never reach that point. Frankly, those extreme nihilistic views do get a bit tiring. I can envision many things that would have made my life worth living going forward, but for whatever reason, they evaded me. I can still be happy for others who managed to find them. I've said many times that suicide is a selfish act, and it is, and it should be. Suicide is about me and only me. It is what's right for me based on the circumstances in my life. My suicide has nothing to do with anyone else. Why would I begrudge others of their happiness?

 

[bluem00n]

Lace your drinks.

haha! ... that sounds like a win-win situation for us both!

Edit: Response to FuneralCry removed and instead posted as a new thread.

 

[freedompass]

No, my post is perfectly valid, I actually think it makes a lot of sense to call people supposedly suicidal, if they claim to be suicidal but have life valuing beliefs that they try to force onto others. If someone sees life as being so valuable and beneficial to the point that they wish to gatekeep suicide (which is a pro life belief) and they push the idea that suicidal people must try 'recovery' or whatever, it does make me question do these types of people even want to die in the first place. Are they really suffering if they say those things. Those types of views that I mentioned are very ignorant to the cruel reality of this existence and invalidating of what others go through. People who say things like that are usually privileged and/or deluded.
There's absolutely no arrogance there, it's just observations.
And if people have problems with the posts on here then nobody is forcing them to come on this website. It's just suicidal people venting.

But yes, I want that red button instant exit. I doubt life could ever really be beautiful though, that's a word that I would never ever associate with life, but there is beauty in the thought of being able to instantly exit in a peaceful way.

See here's the thing. You are invalidating people who don't agree with you. You are expressing your opinion as fact, or 'observations' and anyone who doesn't agree as 'delusional' or 'not suicidal enough'. You are trying to enforce your views as the only correct ones. Interspersed in your posts are snipes at those who don't agree with everything you say. And implying they don't have the right to be on the forum. You are gatekeeping, while accusing others of same.

Accusing others of trolling or 'wanting to get old and suffer', lecturing, proselytising, bragging, prolife, arrogance, etc etc, all because they had the temerity to disagree with you. Telling them to 'grow up'. All of this passive aggression scattered through your posts is bound to irk people. You have your acolytes and that is great for them and you. But if you want 'support' try not trashing others for thinking differently perhaps? Your posts are starting to develop a paranoid tone.

If you disagree with me, engage in a reasoned argument minus the slurs. It's a simple boundaries issue. Let your arguments stand on their own merits without the need to lash out or invalidate others. You are no more 'right' than anyone else is.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

See here's the thing. You are invalidating people who don't agree with you. You are expressing your opinion as fact, or 'observations' and anyone who doesn't agree as 'delusional' or 'not suicidal enough'. You are trying to enforce your views as the only correct ones. Interspersed in your posts are snipes at those who don't agree with everything you say. And implying they don't have the right to be on the forum. You are gatekeeping, while accusing others of same.

Accusing others of trolling or 'wanting to get old and suffer', lecturing, proselytising, bragging, prolife, arrogance, etc etc, all because they had the temerity to disagree with you. Telling them to 'grow up'. All of this passive aggression scattered through your posts is bound to irk people. You have your acolytes and that is great for them and you. But if you want 'support' try not trashing others for thinking differently perhaps? Your posts are starting to develop a paranoid tone.

If you disagree with me, engage in a reasoned argument minus the slurs. It's a simple boundaries issue. Let your arguments stand on their own merits without the need to lash out or invalidate others. You are no more 'right' than anyone else is.

What I see is that this is an on going flame war from other threads. Imo I have seen some ( well just 2 on this thread) of the same posters follow / harrass / stalk @FuneralCry on every thread she has started .They look for any sentence which they can use to make her look bad and turn others in the thread against her, derail the thread and turn it into a flame war .. I think @FuneralCry is just responding to these same posters and it might seem like she is generalizing. They are baiting her. These posters attacking Funeralcry personally criticizing what she says . Sometimes they are criticizing the response or reactions generated to baiting, how someone might respond after being constantly criticized or baited. Imo If she is lashing out it is at those who have repeatedly lashed out at her in other threads and this one. Yeah they have her irritated. Wouldn't you be after being constantly imo unfairly criticized ?

@FuneralCry I would put these posters criticizing you on ignore . I"m not sure but if you put them on ignore then they might not be able to see your posts. I wouldn't respond any further to them.

 

[Per Ardua Ad Astra]

I wish they would just give us the option of legalised N so this awful site with all the endless repeating threads about methods can finally end.

Please — UK members expressing opinions in these threads —

Please— See copied below excerpt from CURRENT ONLINE SURVEY —

UK GOVT asking NOW for YOUR THOUGHTS on
*LEGALISING EUTHANASIA (possibly "N" or equally peaceful)*


Thank you all for your time / if you've already filled it in

Excerpt:

Question 1. Suicide and attempted suicide are not crimes in England and Wales. However, it is a crime for a person to encourage or assist the suicide of another person. Euthanasia (healthcare professionals administering lethal drugs) is also illegal.

You can read more about the law in the House of Commons Library note above.

Which of the statements below best reflects your view?

• I broadly agree with the law on this issue in England and Wales
• I broadly disagree with the law on this issue in England and Wales
• I'm not sure

Question 2. Please tell us why you have responded as you have set out above. (No more than 300 words)

Please do not include any personal data, such as your name or phone number, or other data that could identify you in your response. Anonymised quotes from your response may be used in our publications.

Question 3. Which of the following factors are most important to you when considering the issue? Please select up to three.

• Impact on healthcare professionals
• Personal autonomy
• Personal dignity
• Reducing suffering
• Risk of coercion of vulnerable groups
• Risk of devaluing lives of specific groups
• Sanctity of life
• Other (please give more details in the text box below)

Question 4. If you have responded 'other' to the previous question, please tell us which other factors are most important to you when considering the issue. [Word limit: 50 words]

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Question 5. Do you think any of the following would be helpful? Tick all that apply

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• Other (please give more details in the text box below)

Question 6. If you responded 'other' to the previous question, please tell us what other resources would be helpful in the debate. [Word limit: 50 words]

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NEXT PAGE …

*Please see STICKY POST for this FULL ONLINE SURVEY

 

[freedompass]

. Yeah they have her irritated. Wouldn't you be after being constantly imo unfairly criticized ?

This cuts both ways. How about stopping with the unfounded slurs? FC sets the tone when she starts her threads. Essentially flaming and derailing herself! Unless you agree that we are all 1) trolls 2) prolife 3) bragging 4) arrogant 5) not suicidal enough 6) shouldn't be on the forum 7) proselytising 8) delusional and so on and so forth. You think it's not irritating to be labelled that way? How are these not personal attacks? No, she doesn't name people but if she doesn't mean us then who the hell is she referring to?

There shouldn't be a flame war and if FC stops this I guarantee peace will be restored.

And furthermore @FuneralCry if you find the site 'awful' with endlessly repetitive method posts (a fair comment) maybe it's time to take a break? Is anyone forcing you to be here?

 

[FuneralCry]

Everything that I've said on here is completely justified, I'm just saying how things actually are. I know what I'm talking about and I don't say lies for no reason. Maybe others enjoy lying to themselves, but no, not me. And if I call someone any of those things mentioned it's because they deserve it 100%. And those who have a problem with my posts can just get lost, I have a realistic view on life and my posts are just venting, sorry if that offends people, I guess that not everyones posts can meet the high standards of some of the clearly very intelligent people on here. And that post is actually quite ridiculous when they say that it's sad how some people are so nihilistic, no many of us here just see the world for what it really is, the sad thing instead is how people troll a suicide forum and then try to deny it, to do that is literally so embarassing.

 

[Darkover]

IT'S not just truth but a fact a lot of people are better of never being born me included

 

[freedompass]

Everything that I've said on here is completely justified, I'm just saying how things actually are. I know what I'm talking about and I don't say lies for no reason. Maybe others enjoy lying to themselves, but no, not me. And if I call someone any of those things mentioned it's because they deserve it 100%. And those who have a problem with my posts can just get lost, I have a realistic view on life and my posts are just venting, sorry if that offends people, I guess that not everyones posts can meet the high standards of some of the clearly very intelligent people on here. And that post is actually quite ridiculous when they say that it's sad how some people are so nihilistic, no many of us here just see the world for what it really is, the sad thing instead is how people troll a suicide forum and then try to deny it, to do that is literally so embarassing.

Honestly I can't even

 

[rationaltake]

Regardless of any posts on here life in the real world goes on and people experience sadness happiness joy pain achievement terror etc. It's just how things are. All feelings are temporary in the sense that life itself is temporary.