Resource Thoughts on potassium silver cyanide KAg(CN)2

[JohnM66]

Is this compound as toxic and lethal as KCN? I've been looking up on the internet and found out that this one is way more accessible than KCN, I found some of these compounds with a concentration of about 54% and have been wondering if it's enough to CTB.

 

[annihilator]

Will you manufacture it ? If yes how ?

 

[JohnM66]

Will you manufacture it ? If yes how ?

Not gonna manufacture it, it's widely available where I live (Brazil) as some sort of lab/industrial reagent.

 

[Intoxicated]

I couldn't find any quantitative data on toxicity of potassium dicyanoargentate for humans. For rats, LD50 of K[Ag(CN)₂] is 20.9 mg/kg, LD50 of KCN is 7.49 mg/kg, LD50 of NaCN is 5.733 mg/kg according to

https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AA12551&productDescription=keyword&vendorId=VN00024248&countryCode=US&language=en

https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AAL1327336&productDescription=potassium-cyanide-g&vendorId=VN00024248&keyword=true&countryCode=US&language=en

https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AA12137A3&productDescription=sodium-cyanide-acs-g&vendorId=VN00024248&keyword=true&countryCode=US&language=en

The reason why a higher weight of potassium dicyanoargentate is needed is probably because it has a higher molecular weight (199 g/mol vs 65 g/mol for KCN vs 49 g/mol for NaCN) and the complex ions [Ag(CN)₂]⁻ produced after dissociation of K[Ag(CN)₂] in water have to be decomposed further in order to produce poisonous CN⁻ anions.

 

[JohnM66]

I couldn't find any quantitative data on toxicity of potassium dicyanoargentate for humans. For rats, LD50 of K[Ag(CN)₂] is 20.9 mg/kg, LD50 of KCN is 7.49 mg/kg, LD50 of NaCN is 5.733 mg/kg according to

https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AA12551&productDescription=keyword&vendorId=VN00024248&countryCode=US&language=en

https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AAL1327336&productDescription=potassium-cyanide-g&vendorId=VN00024248&keyword=true&countryCode=US&language=en

https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AA12137A3&productDescription=sodium-cyanide-acs-g&vendorId=VN00024248&keyword=true&countryCode=US&language=en

The reason why a higher weight of potassium dicyanoargentate is needed is probably because it has a higher molecular weight (199 g/mol vs 65 g/mol for KCN vs 49 g/mol for NaCN) and the complex ions [Ag(CN)₂]⁻ produced after dissociation of K[Ag(CN)₂] in water have to be decomposed further in order to produce poisonous CN⁻ anions.

So let's say someone would choose this compose as a method to ctb, would it be efficient or other usual ways such as SN are a better choice?

 

[Intoxicated]

So let's say someone would choose this compose as a method to ctb, would it be efficient or other usual ways such as SN are a better choice?

IDK. K[Ag(CN)2] looks like a stronger poison than NaNO2 based on NFPA 704 safety classification and LD50 for rats (20.9 mg/kg vs 85 mg/kg).

These safety data sheets

https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AA12551&productDescription=keyword&vendorId=VN00024248&countryCode=US&language=en

Avantor is setting science in motion for a better world | Avantor

Potassium dicyanoargentate | 506-61-6

Potassium dicyanoargentate (CAS 506-61-6) information, including chemical properties, structure, melting point, boiling point, density, formula, molecular weight, uses, prices, suppliers, SDS and more, available at Chemicalbook.

www.chemicalbook.com

give potassium dicyanoargentate the highest health hazard level per NFPA 704 - 4 of 4.

Sodium nitrite is typically scored as 3 of 4 hazard level per NFPA 704

https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=S3473&productDescription=sodium-nitrite-cert-acs-gm&vendorId=VN00033897&keyword=true&countryCode=US&language=en

https://www.godeepak.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/SNI-MSDS-JUNE.pdf

https://www.chemtradelogistics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/SDS-Sodium_Nitrite_Solution_Technical_CHE-2022S.pdf

On the other hand, potassium dicyanoargentate is described as a severe irritant for skin, mucous membranes, and eyes. So ingesting it can be way more unpleasant than sodium nitrite.

If you're ready to consider making hydrogen cyanide out of this substance instead of swallowing it just as is, I think it should be suitable for producing a lethal dose of HCN (similarly to potassium ferrocyanide and potassium ferricyanide which also may be available for purchasing by individuals in many countries).

 

[JohnM66]

IDK. K[Ag(CN)2] looks like a stronger poison than NaNO2 based on NFPA 704 safety classification and LD50 for rats (20.9 mg/kg vs 85 mg/kg).

These safety data sheets

https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AA12551&productDescription=keyword&vendorId=VN00024248&countryCode=US&language=en

Avantor is setting science in motion for a better world | Avantor

Potassium dicyanoargentate | 506-61-6

Potassium dicyanoargentate (CAS 506-61-6) information, including chemical properties, structure, melting point, boiling point, density, formula, molecular weight, uses, prices, suppliers, SDS and more, available at Chemicalbook.

www.chemicalbook.com

give potassium dicyanoargentate the highest health hazard level per NFPA 704 - 4 of 4.

Sodium nitrite is typically scored as 3 of 4 hazard level per NFPA 704

https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=S3473&productDescription=sodium-nitrite-cert-acs-gm&vendorId=VN00033897&keyword=true&countryCode=US&language=en

https://www.godeepak.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/SNI-MSDS-JUNE.pdf

https://www.chemtradelogistics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/SDS-Sodium_Nitrite_Solution_Technical_CHE-2022S.pdf

On the other hand, potassium dicyanoargentate is described as a severe irritant for skin, mucous membranes, and eyes. So ingesting it can be way more unpleasant than sodium nitrite.

If you're ready to consider making hydrogen cyanide out of this substance instead of swallowing it just as is, I think it should be suitable for producing a lethal dose of HCN (similarly to potassium ferrocyanide and potassium ferricyanide which also may be available for purchasing by individuals in many countries).

how hard would it be for someone not experienced at all on the chemical field to produce HCN out of this compound?

 

[Intoxicated]

how hard would it be for someone not experienced at all on the chemical field to produce HCN out of this compound?

Probably not easy, since producing HCN from this compound seems to require heating a mixture of it with some strong acid like HCl, H2SO4, or HNO3, and it's somewhat difficult to find detailed info about such reactions. There is way more info about reactions between ferrocyanides or ferricyanides with strong acids that can also produce HCN.

 

[outrider567]

Is this compound as toxic and lethal as KCN? I've been looking up on the internet and found out that this one is way more accessible than KCN, I found some of these compounds with a concentration of about 54% and have been wondering if it's enough to CTB.

Didn't California use Potassium Silver Cyanide for their executions in the gas chamber? Not sure

 

[JohnM66]

Didn't California use Potassium Silver Cyanide for their executions in the gas chamber? Not sure

never heard of that tbh, but if so why not just use KCN?