Discussion Those who support or identify with non-binary gender ideology, why?

[Pessimist]

I believe that non-binary gender ideology reinforces gender stereotypes instead of breaking them. Society progresses by expanding what men and women can be, and not by creating new labels for nonconformity.

 

[U. A.]

Erase intersex people less.

 

[Pessimist]

Erase intersex people less.

It's a rare medical condition, and in most cases it'a still clear whether the person is male or female. Rare exceptions don't redefine the rule.

 

[U. A.]

it'a still clear whether the person is male or female

How, pray tell, are male and female defined?

 

[Pessimist]

How, pray tell, are male and female defined?

They are defined by basic biological roles in reproduction. It's clear which category someone falls into.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

They are defined by basic biological roles in reproduction. It's clear which category someone falls into.

Oh, you're definitely a cis man if you genuinely have no idea about PCOS and other types of internal or hormonal intersexuality.

I believe that non-binary gender ideology reinforces gender stereotypes instead of breaking them. Society progresses by expanding what men and women can be, and not by creating new labels for nonconformity.

You're the one reinforcing gender stereotypes if you think people transition because of what women/men can or cannot be. Gender is an internal thing, and being nonbinary wouldn't be erased even if women or men had no expectations from society whatsoever.

Honestly, if you don't "feel" your gender and only base it on the societal standards of what people say you are, I'd suggest looking into gender agnosticism. Because you are not the norm.

 

[Pessimist]

Oh, you're definitely a cis man if you genuinely have no idea about PCOS and other types of internal or hormonal intersexuality.

You're the one reinforcing gender stereotypes if you think people transition because of what women/men can or cannot be. Gender is an internal thing, and being nonbinary wouldn't be erased even if women or men had no expectations from society whatsoever.

Honestly, if you don't "feel" your gender and only base it on the societal standards of what people say you are, I'd suggest looking into gender agnosticism. Because you are not the norm.

PCOS is a hormonal condition some women have, not a separate sex or gender category. It doesn't support your claims regarding non-binary gender ideology.

Also, I didn't talk about sex transitioning. I'm talking about people who claim to be neither man nor woman, which doesn't make sense.

 

[U. A.]

I'm talking about people who claim to be neither man nor woman, which doesn't make sense.

Dude, I know you know how to use the fucking internet:

Third gender - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If you wanna covertly push your bullshit oppressive ideology go to reddit.
Don't even bother replying to this without opening that link btw

 

[Dejected 55]

Gender as a spectrum goes back a lot longer in human history as a concept than most people seem willing to admit. I won't get into the details of it, but there's a lot of historical information about people considering well more than 3 genders. Like a lot of things about humans, a spectrum makes sense... and when you have a spectrum, the possibility of non-binary comes up. I think maybe "non-binary" is not an accurate term really the more I think about it... because we have men, we have women, and we have the rest of the spectrum... non-binary tends to imply neither male nor female as if those are the only options, but when you accept the spectrum concept, non-binary doesn't really work for you because you're recognizing more than a binary setup already.

In some ways it is a shame we feel the need to label and categorize people anyway, because that process is necessarily limiting in that you try to put people in boxes whether they exactly fit that box or not.

Relative to the OP question... I don't understand fully what it would be like to be non-binary as the term is usually meant. I clearly feel male as I was born, but over time I also recognized that my idea of being male is clearly different from the societal norm as I don't fit many of the qualifications of what males are expected to be... so, I'm somewhere on the spectrum, closer to being male than anything else, but I'm not all the way there apparently.

 

[slowlydying2mrrw]

I believe that non-binary gender ideology reinforces gender stereotypes instead of breaking them. Society progresses by expanding what men and women can be, and not by creating new labels for nonconformity.

YES.... and even if you didn't want to binary, you're now limited to a belief system based on social values that rely on conformity to alter your value system.

I feel the same about labeling people's ethnic background based in color. As a yellow person, I'm perceived one way and a fixed way, a societal do gooder (or a Chinese or Japanese). If I was white, I'm most likely racist. If I'm black or brown, Im probably a gang member. :/

How, pray tell, are male and female defined?

What is your definition of intersex or "Hermaphroditism" as it's called? There are anatomical and biological differences that distinguish the two besides having a vagina or testicles.

Technically, the clitoris is a penis to the human anatomy and then biology takes over along with cell biochemistry and then enlarges/shrinks the other.

With intersex/hermaphrodtism, they can have both.

PCOS is a hormonal condition some women have, not a separate sex or gender category. It doesn't support your claims regarding non-binary gender ideology.

Also, I didn't talk about sex transitioning. I'm talking about people who claim to be neither man nor woman, which doesn't make sense.

Dude I love you

PCOS is a hormonal condition some women have, not a separate sex or gender category. It doesn't support your claims regarding non-binary gender ideology.

Also, I didn't talk about sex transitioning. I'm talking about people who claim to be neither man nor woman, which doesn't make sense.

Dude I love you

Dude, I know you know how to use the fucking internet:

Third gender - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If you wanna covertly push your bullshit oppressive ideology go to reddit.
Don't even bother replying to this without opening that link btw

your links have no unreliable sources to history of 2000-3000 years ago in terms of quantifying the belief system of a third gender within ancient societies. Maybe their version of it is more extra terrestrial and Alien? It's easy to infer to what the past thought, in a Wikipedia link with no cited sources. But that's what makes it harder to study the social aspects of the past..... We can't see it and half the stories are based on fables.

Might as well cite the bible as historical truth because this is the equivalence of that. After all, religion loves to cite the fables of Egyptian gods and parallel them with Christian fables....

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

Not keen on seeing potential transphobes flock to this like crows to a carcass just because seeing anyone who shares their opinion gets them hard (even if a lot of the stuff they claim can be disproven by a simple Google search + critical thinking skills)

...so I'm going to state my case and leave this thread:

Gender has been a spectrum since before your bloodline even began. The indigenous people where you live have known of it since the beginning. You are but a speck compares to the billions of nonbinary, intersex, GNC (etc) people throughout history.

They are historically documented (and I suggest you actually use Google to search this before making a fool out of yourself next time), but some are not, for the same reason some trans hate crimes are just simply labeled "murders"—if society isn't knowledgeable enough, they just label it as what they know. A "woman who dressed manly" might just be called that, but to his friends he may have identified otherwise.

Anyone on this thread who thinks that identifying as nonbinary because the idea of being a woman/man does not "feel like you" means you are "reinforcing stereotypes" is projecting.

Just because you think all nonbinary people dress androgynous and have societally androgynous interests, does not mean that is the truth. If all nonbinary people dressed as androgynous and refused to like sports or ballet, then I'd agree, but they don't. Your view of the world is limited.

I'd tell you about my nonbinary friends who dress completely binary, but then you'd contradict your own point and say "why do they identify as nonbinary then "


Nonbinary is an internal identity. Just because you base your idea of being a man or a woman on how society defines them, does not mean nonbinary people view gender that narrowly.

I am a man that dresses and acts extremely femininely, even looking feminine enough that I am called a girl regularly. I am still a man, and my view of my personal manliness includes dressing in skirts and painting my nails.

A nonbinary person could dress the same and have that be their view of their personal gender identity. Black and white thinking is not conducive to intelligent thought.

 

[neurotoxic]

you're overthinking it, they don't create stereotypes any more than men or women do. theyre normal people who prefer to use a label they identify with, no reason for me to question their validity. Also, asking those people to "prove" their existence is an inherently rigged game because a bad faith debater can simply go "well how do you know?" and reject their sources/arguments in bad faith (which im seeing in this thread) and engage in limitless skepticism instead of listening and actually learning about them.
also you really cant accuse someone of reinforcing stereotypes just for appearing/identifying/existing in a certain manner without elaborating on how they're doing that. and I have the feeling that most people who recycle that accusation reinforce just as many stereotypes because we all grew up in a very rigid society. Usually they simply don't like the label, which, is a strange thing to fixate on.