Discussion The werther effect

[Johnnythefox]

I remember when this was happening, all the more so because my brother had stayed there for some years.
Well worth a read if you have time.

https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2009/02/wales-suicides200902

 

[Jane Doe]

I remember when this was happening, all the more so because my brother had stayed there for some years.
Well worth a read if you have time.

https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2009/02/wales-suicides200902

I remember this

 

[Empty Smile]

So should SS be labeled as a Internet Suicide Cult?

If so, I'm in. If I'm going out, might as well be a cult member!

 

[Smilla]

I remember when this was happening, all the more so because my brother had stayed there for some years.
Well worth a read if you have time.

https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2009/02/wales-suicides200902

Thanks for this.

 

[Karl]

I didn't read the report.
Goethe is wonderful

 

[Moth]

Fascinating stuff, it's odd how the human mind works. The ebbs and flows of societies collective consciousness

 

[sólstafir]

"Kenneth McAll, a Scottish psychiatrist, maintains in his book Healing the Family Tree that the mentally ill are being tortured by their dead ancestors and that the best therapy is to identify and liberate the malevolent spirit by performing the Eucharist." sounds sane enough to label others mentally ill.
i'm so cheerful today.

 

[Jodes]

I remember when this was happening, all the more so because my brother had stayed there for some years.
Well worth a read if you have time.

https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2009/02/wales-suicides200902

Looks grest do far, will keep tab open. Didn't realise Freud CTB, good on him

 

[Jen Erik]

The documentary about this is fascinating, it's comprised of interviews with town residents. The socio-economic implications are clear, even when the film veers into the whole 'attention-seeking copycat' trope.

https://letterboxd.com/film/bridgend/

 

[faex42]

I remember when this was happening, all the more so because my brother had stayed there for some years.
Well worth a read if you have time.

https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2009/02/wales-suicides200902

Thank you.
A powerful, tragic and haunting read. .

 

[JJ-NOHOPE]

When I was an adolescent my father tried to kill himself 7 times.

As an adolescent I tried to kill myself 4 times.

I'm still convinced that if he had succeeded, that I would have succeeded. I still wish I had succeeded.

But if/when I kill myself now, no one will give a flying f@#$&.

 

[hablakadabra]

When I was an adolescent my father tried to kill himself 7 times.

As an adolescent I tried to kill myself 4 times.

I'm still convinced that if he had succeeded, that I would have succeeded. I still wish I had succeeded.

But if/when I kill myself now, no one will give a flying f@#$&.

I'm sorry to hear that. I sincerely hope you can find your true path one day, whatever that may be

 

[JustAboutDone]

Thanks @Johnnythefox this was very interesting. Do you know if any other UK "clusters" like this?

 

[Johnnythefox]

Thanks @Johnnythefox this was very interesting. Do you know if any other UK "clusters" like this?

No idea..

 

[Vegrau]

Ahhh how naive and idiotic to think it as an outbreak and not a sign of a fundamentally broken society. A purposeless, lonely, hollow and unreasonable life that demands us to follow or die and nothing else. If life is that good no one will kill themselves to begin with. Freaking deluded retards.

 

[Redt2go]

Freaking deluded retards.

sheesh

 

[Vegrau]

sheesh

Lol I just despise idiocy. They always look at the sign but not the cause. Attributing it to something else and act as if life is all peachy dory.

 

[Redt2go]

Lol I just despise idiocy. They always look at the sign but not the cause. Attributing it to something else and act as if life is all peachy dory.

Don't think this is totally and completely true but okay

 

[Vegrau]

N

Don't think this is totally and completely true but okay

Of course it cannot be apply on every case that had happened but enough times for me to come to that conclusion. Blaming violence on games. Blaming bad things on immigrants or other minorities. Blaming suicide on other suicide. Always blaming something else. It may not be true for all cases but it is a fact people did it and will continue to do so without ever caring about the true underlying reasons. If youre trying tp disprove my point at least present some facts to make your point. It feels kinds of shallow, hollow and inconsequential reading your comment without it.

Never thought you were this... Ummm ehhh whatever but okay.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

Ahhh how naive and idiotic to think it as an outbreak and not a sign of a fundamentally broken society. A purposeless, lonely, hollow and unreasonable life that demands us to follow or die and nothing else. If life is that good no one will kill themselves to begin with. Freaking deluded retards.

Thank you. I couldn't agree more. It's easier to talk about suicide as the result of a neurological disease (problem in the person) or a convenient effect someone made up (corruption due to wrong media exposure)... Couldn't be due to people's evaluation of life and their rational decision to leave a party they dislike. Want to get a divorce despite the measured negative effects on children and partners? No problem. Personal freedom. Want to drop out of law/medical/business... school despite the statistics about the catastrophic effects of inescapable student loan debt...? No problem. Personal freedom. Want to escape a life of unremitting physical or emotional pain and other subsequent grave life problems despite years/decades of "professional" intervention? Oh, wait. No, that doesn't make sense. Clearly you're crazy or you've been brainwashed by exposure to information that should have been censored.

 

[Redt2go]

N


Of course it cannot be apply on every case that had happened but enough times for me to come to that conclusion. Blaming violence on games. Blaming bad things on immigrants or other minorities. Blaming suicide on other suicide. Always blaming something else. It may not be true for all cases but it is a fact people did it and will continue to do so without ever caring about the true underlying reasons. If youre trying tp disprove my point at least present some facts to make your point. It feels kinds of shallow, hollow and inconsequential reading your comment without it.

Never thought you were this... Ummm ehhh whatever but okay.

okay

 

[Othermind]

sheesh

"Capitalist realism insists on treating mental health as if it were a natural fact, like weather (but, then again, weather is no longer a natural fact so much as a political-economic effect). In the 1960s and 1970s, radical theory and politics (Laing, Foucault, Deleuze and Guattari, etc.) coalesced around extreme mental conditions such as schizophrenia, arguing, for instance, that madness was not a natural, but a political, category. But what is needed now is a politicization of much more common disorders. Indeed, it is their very commonness which is the issue: in Britain, depression is now the condition that is most treated by the NHS. In his book The Selfish Capitalist, Oliver James has convincingly posited a correlation between rising rates of mental distress and the neoliberal mode of capitalism practiced in countries like Britain, the USA and Australia. In line with James's claims, I want to argue that it is necessary to reframe the growing problem of stress (and distress) in capitalist societies. Instead of treating it as incumbent on individuals to resolve their own psychological distress, instead, that is, of accepting the vast privatization of stress that has taken place over the last thirty years, we need to ask: how has it become acceptable that so many people, and especially so many young people, are ill?" Mark Fisher- Capitalist realism, is there no alternative?
I wish people would read some before mouthing off about things they haven't a clue about.

 

[Redt2go]

"Capitalist realism insists on treating mental health as if it were a natural fact, like weather (but, then again, weather is no longer a natural fact so much as a political-economic effect). In the 1960s and 1970s, radical theory and politics (Laing, Foucault, Deleuze and Guattari, etc.) coalesced around extreme mental conditions such as schizophrenia, arguing, for instance, that madness was not a natural, but a political, category. But what is needed now is a politicization of much more common disorders. Indeed, it is their very commonness which is the issue: in Britain, depression is now the condition that is most treated by the NHS. In his book The Selfish Capitalist, Oliver James has convincingly posited a correlation between rising rates of mental distress and the neoliberal mode of capitalism practiced in countries like Britain, the USA and Australia. In line with James's claims, I want to argue that it is necessary to reframe the growing problem of stress (and distress) in capitalist societies. Instead of treating it as incumbent on individuals to resolve their own psychological distress, instead, that is, of accepting the vast privatization of stress that has taken place over the last thirty years, we need to ask: how has it become acceptable that so many people, and especially so many young people, are ill?" Mark Fisher- Capitalist realism, is there no alternative?
I wish people would read some before mouthing off about things they haven't a clue about.

okay

 

[JustAboutDone]

There are so many factors at play here it's difficult to break down and the journalists reporting at the time, having googled all the coverage and found it to be extensive and invasive, was not constructive or helpful.

Just my opinion: I still find it deeply objectionable that the livelihood of so many in South Wales - the pits & mines could be taken away virtually overnight leaving them with nothing. No money was invested in the area or new innovation. So you have a whole family now without a purpose, job and any options for the future.

Whole swathes of S Wales left with no hope or prospects. So, when you are born, you are not born into an area with the chance of a job or living a life you might want. You are literally handed hopelessness on a plate. Compounded with no facilities in your local area. What is there to do?

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

"it is necessary to reframe the growing problem of stress (and distress) in capitalist societies. Instead of treating it as incumbent on individuals to resolve their own psychological distress ... I wish people would read some before mouthing off about things they haven't a clue about.

I agree. But the prevalent fake dialog of mental health is one tool that serves the true powers of society. They have no motivation to "reframe the growing problem of stress..." On the contrary, it's to their benefit to displace as much responsibility for the so-called problem onto the shoulders of the masses. I also agree people should do far more research into the history and methodology of psychiatry, clinical psychology and the politics of mental health, but judging from how vehemently many support these scientifically illegitimate disciplines, they're happier to believe the convenient story fed to them even at the expense of their own autonomy. But if you ask them for the biomedical evidence that corroborates the general thesis of mental health disease, they never do.

 

[Othermind]

I agree. But the prevalent fake dialog of mental health is one tool that serves the true powers of society. They have no motivation to "reframe the growing problem of stress..." On the contrary, it's to their benefit to displace as much responsibility for the so-called problem onto the shoulders of the masses. I also agree people should do far more research into the history and methodology of psychiatry, clinical psychology and the politics of mental health, but judging from how vehemently many support these scientifically illegitimate disciplines, they're happier to believe the convenient story fed to them even at the expense of their own autonomy. But if you ask them for the biomedical evidence that corroborates the general thesis of mental health disease, they never do.

I mean, yeah. In a nutshell, it's the same old problem of liberalism: the focus on the "individual" at all costs. Also what they conceive of as "individual" has no basis in reality, a completely free agent, divine arbiter of its own will is not something that is remotely possible.
On top of that, if they keep looking at the world through this myopic lens, they can just shrug off systemic issues because in the end they can deflect all responsibility on their beloved individual because theoretically they always have the choice of picking the best course of action for their life, and if they don't, it's a failure on their part and everyone else can wash their hands of it. You know, "black people could always commit less crime", and drivel like that.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

On top of that, if they keep looking at the world through this myopic lens, they can just shrug off systemic issues because in the end they can deflect all responsibility on their beloved individual because theoretically they always have the choice of picking the best course of action for their life, and if they don't, it's a failure on their part and everyone else can wash their hands of it.

Agreed. Like crucifying the child bullied bloodily for a decade who finally snaps and retaliates. The child is "sick" or "evil," thereby justifying the years and years of emotional and physical torment at the hands of other "innocent" children who sensed and acted upon the sick child's illness. The bullied child couldn't have reacted to a hopeless situation. No. Our children, the administration, the community--none of us were part of the blame and we can sleep with clear consciences.

Similar with crazy people. Their flaws. Not our problems. And no amount of international publications to the contrary suffice to sufficiently challenge the sentiment.

 

[Walilamdzi]

Interesting thread.

 

[NoOneKnows]

Interesting thread.

thank you for recovering it, some excellent points are raised on this thread

 

[Divine Trinity]

So should SS be labeled as a Internet Suicide Cult?

If so, I'm in. If I'm going out, might as well be a cult member!

Well in a way yes. But media paints cults in as these weird, fanatical, lunatics drinking goat blood or something. It's not at all an accurate depiction of the majority of cults, do people even read the definition of it?

I mean, yeah. In a nutshell, it's the same old problem of liberalism: the focus on the "individual" at all costs. Also what they conceive of as "individual" has no basis in reality, a completely free agent, divine arbiter of its own will is not something that is remotely possible.
On top of that, if they keep looking at the world through this myopic lens, they can just shrug off systemic issues because in the end they can deflect all responsibility on their beloved individual because theoretically they always have the choice of picking the best course of action for their life, and if they don't, it's a failure on their part and everyone else can wash their hands of it. You know, "black people could always commit less crime", and drivel like that.

You guys are my kind of people.

Don't think this is totally and completely true but okay

2 words: Donald Trump...