The way I look at assisted suicide has changed over the years

[noname223]

Currently, I read scientifical articles on inclusion of disabled people.

I stumbled on an article writen by a disabled author. She criticized liberal assisted suicide laws thoroughly. She compared these laws to Nazi Germany and framed it in exactly this way. She did everything defame people in favor of liberal assisted suicide laws.

And I noticed I am not as offended as 4-5 years ago when I debated pro-life people on this topic. After my first psychosis I was so interested in receiving assisted suicide. I even contacted an assisted suicide organization with 18.

It is not that my ethics have changed much since. I try to see where she is coming from and I agree disabled people should receive more money and resources. And she elaborated rightfully that the UK and the US move in exactly the opposite direction. And these countries are often ahead of our time. They portray the future for German new laws and developments. I see some positive in disabilty activists now. They try that disabled people get more money. Like the nursing care money I receive and my life literally hinges on that.

I still consider these people sort of delusional, naive and they want to live in a fairy tale world.

Personally, I have changed my plans. I might ctb over poverty. A death with an assisted suicide organisation costs approximately 5000 Euros. (up to 10.000 I think). The worst is there need to be several assessments by psychiatrists and you have to pay for them. They cost several thousand Euros. This simply disgusts me. I have to pay for applying to my suicide? It costs so much money wanting to die? It feels like getting scammed. In assisted suicide organizations you can often die with N. But you can be rejected and still lose so much money.

I think I was pretty unrealistic when I fantasized about wanting to die with assisted suicide organizations. I imagined everything to be so peaceful. It would not be my responsibility if I fucked it up. There were safety standards. I think this is still the best argument for me in favor of dying with the help of assisted suicide organizations. The likelihood to survive with damage is less. Dying seems to be less messy. Moreover, I am a law abiding citizen. I find it disgusting that suicidal people have to commit crimes in order to die peacefully.

But for me dying with an assisted suicide organization is simply unrealistic. It is like dreaming about the perfect solution for my problems. There are some considerations why I don't want to go this route anymore. My family would never accept it. My dad once threatened me to stop giving me money in case I go to an assisted suicide organization. I also found this disgusting. It is like pressuring me and sort of blackmailing. He was surprised when I actually ordered a lethal chemical substance to kill me. "I always thought these were only words...I did not think you would actually do it" Lol. He is a dumbass. We all know that. He also considers people who ctb stupid which is in itself stupid.

I don't want to pay such an insane amount of money for my death. Poverty is one of my main reasons for my suicidality. And I won't spend my last savings on that. I also don't want having to justify myself. And the whole process to get these assessments. It seems undignified to me. Last year shortly before my almost suicide attempts. Two days beforehand I had a party with all of my friends. I played a role. I wanted to have a good time with them. I did not want that they have a memory of me in their mind where I am depressed all the time. Dying with assisted suicide organizations is horribly difficult. I had two psychoses. I follow these cases in my country. Despite the fact the German highest court ruled in favor of very liberal assisted suicide laws, which I celebrated. Many doctors who help patients in dying get jail time. There are countless examples of that. We are moving backwards since the parliament rejected new laws. With psychosis they will argue I am not able to make a sound decision. I think my blood would boil when I spend 3000 Euros for an assessment that says you are not allowed to commit suicide. I would be infuriated. I am fine with dying with SN. For me it is my method. The method where I consider that the pros and cons are the most acceptable to me.

I made threads in the past about the process to get these assessments from a psychiatrist that show you can make sound decisions. A funny remakr was:. "The mental gymnastics people will say to keep people alive no matter how much they want to die are astounding. And sickening." I still think this reply was pretty funny.

Here is the thread I found it. https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...-to-a-preventive-suicide.112777/#post-2489130

Something I don't like about assisted suicide you don't have the full control when you can make the final step. You have some control but not full. You are not allowed to die when you are in the middle of a mental health crisis. They want that because it hinders the people to ctb emotionally and impulsively. It has to be some sort of preventive suicide. Accoriding to them you need emotional stability when you make this decision.

However, I don't like this. If I return to rock bottom which would be another mental health crises I want to kill myself. But they would say in a major depression you cannot make rational deicisons. Which is in my opinion not true. Sometimes your pain limit is simply reached. And suicide can still be rational if the pain is so overwhelming. I think I could not receive assisted suicide when I am feeling halfway okay. I could imagine I will have this appointment. Already paid so much money. And then chicken out. I also would want to die privately without a stranger who documents me for example by filming it.

I know when I am in extreme existential pain I want to kill myself. But they would argue when you are in so much pain you are not rational anymore. But if life is shit all the time and on top of that temporary life is even more excruciating this should justify receiving assisted suicide in my opinion.

I think we are rolling backwards. In politics everything is reactionary now. And I could imagine I will also lose my lifeline my nursing care money one day. I don't want to rely on the mercy of the government and doctors to allow me to die. Which I would probably not receive anyway.

 

[concession]

You have basically added even more reasons to why I think assisted suicide is not what we need.

The problem is not the lack of assisted suicide but forced hospitalization of people attempting it and constant fighting with spreading information about suicide.
People should be able to decide for themselves and be fully informed on the implications of that decision.

You as a person should not rely on society helping you to kill yourself as this hardly helps anyone who is staying alive but, if you have what it takes, you should be able to make that decision for yourself and not becoming a burden to society after unsuccessful attempt.

 

[developic]

Currently, I read scientifical articles on inclusion of disabled people.

I stumbled on an article writen by a disabled author. She criticized liberal assisted suicide laws thoroughly. She compared these laws to Nazi Germany and framed it in exactly this way. She did everything defame people in favor of liberal assisted suicide laws.

And I noticed I am not as offended as 4-5 years ago when I debated pro-life people on this topic. After my first psychosis I was so interested in receiving assisted suicide. I even contacted an assisted suicide organization with 18.

It is not that my ethics have changed much since. I try to see where she is coming from and I agree disabled people should receive more money and resources. And she elaborated rightfully that the UK and the US move in exactly the opposite direction. And these countries are often ahead of our time. They portray the future for German new laws and developments. I see some positive in disabilty activists now. They try that disabled people get more money. Like the nursing care money I receive and my life literally hinges on that.

I still consider these people sort of delusional, naive and they want to live in a fairy tale world.

Personally, I have changed my plans. I might ctb over poverty. A death with an assisted suicide organisation costs approximately 5000 Euros. (up to 10.000 I think). The worst is there need to be several assessments by psychiatrists and you have to pay for them. They cost several thousand Euros. This simply disgusts me. I have to pay for applying to my suicide? It costs so much money wanting to die? It feels like getting scammed. In assisted suicide organizations you can often die with N. But you can be rejected and still lose so much money.

I think I was pretty unrealistic when I fantasized about wanting to die with assisted suicide organizations. I imagined everything to be so peaceful. It would not be my responsibility if I fucked it up. There were safety standards. I think this is still the best argument for me in favor of dying with the help of assisted suicide organizations. The likelihood to survive with damage is less. Dying seems to be less messy. Moreover, I am a law abiding citizen. I find it disgusting that suicidal people have to commit crimes in order to die peacefully.

But for me dying with an assisted suicide organization is simply unrealistic. It is like dreaming about the perfect solution for my problems. There are some considerations why I don't want to go this route anymore. My family would never accept it. My dad once threatened me to stop giving me money in case I go to an assisted suicide organization. I also found this disgusting. It is like pressuring me and sort of blackmailing. He was surprised when I actually ordered a lethal chemical substance to kill me. "I always thought these were only words...I did not think you would actually do it" Lol. He is a dumbass. We all know that. He also considers people who ctb stupid which is in itself stupid.

I don't want to pay such an insane amount of money for my death. Poverty is one of my main reasons for my suicidality. And I won't spend my last savings on that. I also don't want having to justify myself. And the whole process to get these assessments. It seems undignified to me. Last year shortly before my almost suicide attempts. Two days beforehand I had a party with all of my friends. I played a role. I wanted to have a good time with them. I did not want that they have a memory of me in their mind where I am depressed all the time. Dying with assisted suicide organizations is horribly difficult. I had two psychoses. I follow these cases in my country. Despite the fact the German highest court ruled in favor of very liberal assisted suicide laws, which I celebrated. Many doctors who help patients in dying get jail time. There are countless examples of that. We are moving backwards since the parliament rejected new laws. With psychosis they will argue I am not able to make a sound decision. I think my blood would boil when I spend 3000 Euros for an assessment that says you are not allowed to commit suicide. I would be infuriated. I am fine with dying with SN. For me it is my method. The method where I consider that the pros and cons are the most acceptable to me.

I made threads in the past about the process to get these assessments from a psychiatrist that show you can make sound decisions. A funny remakr was:. "The mental gymnastics people will say to keep people alive no matter how much they want to die are astounding. And sickening." I still think this reply was pretty funny.

Here is the thread I found it. https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...-to-a-preventive-suicide.112777/#post-2489130

Something I don't like about assisted suicide you don't have the full control when you can make the final step. You have some control but not full. You are not allowed to die when you are in the middle of a mental health crisis. They want that because it hinders the people to ctb emotionally and impulsively. It has to be some sort of preventive suicide. Accoriding to them you need emotional stability when you make this decision.

However, I don't like this. If I return to rock bottom which would be another mental health crises I want to kill myself. But they would say in a major depression you cannot make rational deicisons. Which is in my opinion not true. Sometimes your pain limit is simply reached. And suicide can still be rational if the pain is so overwhelming. I think I could not receive assisted suicide when I am feeling halfway okay. I could imagine I will have this appointment. Already paid so much money. And then chicken out. I also would want to die privately without a stranger who documents me for example by filming it.

I know when I am in extreme existential pain I want to kill myself. But they would argue when you are in so much pain you are not rational anymore. But if life is shit all the time and on top of that temporary life is even more excruciating this should justify receiving assisted suicide in my opinion.

I think we are rolling backwards. In politics everything is reactionary now. And I could imagine I will also lose my lifeline my nursing care money one day. I don't want to rely on the mercy of the government and doctors to allow me to die. Which I would probably not receive anyway.

Yes totally right

 

[Forever Sleep]

You as a person should not rely on society helping you to kill yourself as this hardly helps anyone who is staying alive but, if you have what it takes, you should be able to make that decision for yourself and not becoming a burden to society after unsuccessful attempt.

It could potentially help people though. We could donate our organs to them. They wouldn't be traumatised by having to scrape what's left of us off railway tracks. The police wouldn't have to investigate. Someone wouldn't have to come across a disfigured corpse. Families could be given forewarning and be supported both before, during and after the death. We wouldn't have to die alone. They would have the chance to say goodbye.

I do however completely agree that the whole process needs tight regulation in order to make sure a person is sure about their choice (and that it is in fact their choice- they're not being coerced.) That there aren't in fact other options they didn't think about. That's another benefit though. I would envisage an organisation that has people trained not only in assessing mental capacity but those who know what help is on offer out there. So- I could envisage them helping people to recover as well as helping them to die.

The problem with restricting/ criminalising assisted suicide is that it means even the relatively peaceful and reliable methods are restricted. Without regulation, there has to be a blanket ban. They can't rely on retailers to assess whether a person buying SN for example is of age and of sufficient mental capacity. So, the methods we are left with look brutal and crazy. Plus, they're not always that reliable. I also imagine it's family members who panic after an attempt- they may be only too glad for the person to be taken off to a psyche ward.

Introducing assisted suicide would force the issue on society, families, parents- that a number of people are very upset in this world. It would force them to talk about these things and act on improving them- otherwise they run the much higher risk that they will lose a loved one.

 

[Scythe]

The best take I heard on assisted suicide is the government shouldn't run facilities, but moniter private clinics offering euthanasia. Which makes sense, the government could have a secret agenda to reduce a certain demographic or whatever.

It seems the woman you are talking about is against assisted suicide because she thinks people want to die due to lack of finicial support? I don't think you stated her actual agrument in your post. It is a nice thought, it's true, but that doesn't mean it's a good reason to prevent assisted suicide. Because before the government agrees to give people more money, if they ever, the people who are disabled will continue to suffer. They are the ultimate losers of this agrument. Just like we are losers in suicide prevention that's meant to help us but normies don't realize locking ppl up non-consensually isn't a very good thing for mental health.
There's also the fact that even if you ban assisted suicide people will find ways to do it on their own. More painful ways that can lead to more suffering. It's not productive to ban suicide, it's best to give people the option, let them choose, try to help them live, but respect their decision in the end.

Also assisted suicide costing so much reminds me of a post on reddit venting about how hopeless they feel about saving up for retirement. One of the responses was smth along the lines of "Save up, a dollar a day, and then when you finally get to retirement age. You'll have enough to afford euthanasia."

 

[Ijustcantanymore]

Nah we definitely need assisted suicide and to stop trying to force people to live with reason after reason that is only relevant to the reason giver.

 

[Nightfoot]

You have basically added even more reasons to why I think assisted suicide is not what we need.

The problem is not the lack of assisted suicide but forced hospitalization of people attempting it and constant fighting with spreading information about suicide.
People should be able to decide for themselves and be fully informed on the implications of that decision.

You as a person should not rely on society helping you to kill yourself as this hardly helps anyone who is staying alive but, if you have what it takes, you should be able to make that decision for yourself and not becoming a burden to society after unsuccessful attempt.

This would require easier access to peaceful means in order to solve or reduce another problem that those who do make that decision for themselves often only have painful or unreliable means available to them.

 

[concession]

This would require easier access to peaceful means in order to solve or reduce another problem that those who do make that decision for themselves often only have painful or unreliable means available to them.

Yeah, sure, as I`ve said the suicide research and discussion should not be prohibited and people capable of minimal research should be able to find a way out.

The best take I heard on assisted suicide is the government shouldn't run facilities, but moniter private clinics offering euthanasia. Which makes sense, the government could have a secret agenda to reduce a certain demographic or whatever.

And private clinics would not have a secret agenda? They will have to pay for people trained in assisted dying, they will want to maximize profits.

Also are private clinic owners unbribable? Imagine how happy someone like Trump or whatever would be for some journalists having access to certain materials to disappear this way.

 

[shiba]

I think assisted suicide is a good thing, but personally I'd rather do it by myself. I want my death to be really private so the idea of talking to a bunch of doctors and then dying in some dying facility bothers me. It's not like I'd be able to get it anyways I don't meet the requirements.