The problem with therapy

[WornOutLife]

I felt quite happy and understood by most of you because I realized I'm not alone: you also had a bad experience with therapists.

Why is it that therapy usually doesn't work? Here's my opinion:

To begin with, most therapists never wanted to ctb. They can read a lot about it but can they really understand what we're going trough? They might have a general idea about depression but ctb is worse than just a "temporary depression". It's part of us and doesn't want to leave.

Thus, how could a therapist exactly help us?

I think a good first step would be not to treat us as mad individuals nor want to send us to a psych ward asap. And there I go with the two most evil words we could possibly hear: PSYCH WARD.
How can that hell make us feel better? The experiences I've read are terribly heart-breaking.

Another problem is that most therapists just want your money. I've tried 10 different ones and some really seemed to care about me but the more appointments I had, the more distance between them and me I could feel.

Just tell me, how can the words like "What did you do today?" "Life is precious" "Don't give up. You have a lot of potential" "Suicide is not a way out" really help?
What about telling us? "Okay. Why do you exactly wanna ctb? What's your method? Have you done a deep research about it? Did you know there's a risk of permanent damage with that method? Have you truly checked all the options out there, what about....*example*?"
That would certainly help us much more than the things I previously mentioned.

Anyway, I'm not saying all therapists are bad. I know there are some awesome ones out there but it's really difficult to find them. Just have a look at the experiences our dear SS fellows had and you'll see.

Having said this, my vent is over and I think those are the problems with therapy.

Hugs and love,

Matt

 

[Celerity]

The problems as I see them - cognitive behavioral therapy is a cancer, and therapists reject the idea that suicide can be a rational choice even if you're "mentally ill".

 

[WornOutLife]

Cognitive behavioral therapy is a cancer, and suicide can be a rational choice even if you're "mentally ill".

I couldn't have summed it up in a better way!

 

[Celerity]

I couldn't have summed it up in a better way!

Cognitive behavioral therapy is borderline cruel and Orwellian, IMO. The only therapy that has somewhat helped didn't use CBT at all.

 

[omoidarui]

I dunno how they can improve.

Life sux, making it seem better than it is is like polishing a turd

 

[Beachedwhale]

Therapists can be malicious. I had one who was completely useless and she knew it. She would repeat things over and over and ask dumb questions to pass time. It was mostly just like a listening service and silly "love yourself" bullshit. I kept asking her to actually use CBT principles on my thoughts and feelings and beliefs but she never did this once. I kept deteriorating and she basically blamed me in a nice way. Because it wasn't helping I took an antidepressant that fucked me up more. I found out from a private therapist that there is another higher service available whwre you can do EMDR etc which my therapist and her supervisor never told me about despite me pleading to have something better than their shite. I had to ask the GP for it and then the therapist finally requested a referral to it. Absolutely useless and malicious.
.

Insyesd the supervisor punished me by not offering anything else because I had previously terminated sessions with another therapist (who to be fair was actually much better, and actually this therapist was not too bad with respect to social anxiety exposure therapy, but not the usual CBT challenging beliefs etc). And she told me she would leave me with resources but never did.

 

[EmbraceOfTheVoid]

It's a relationship based on money and not bringing up that taboo word which makes it completely pointless like you said. They're basically just sounding boards that ask you really dumb questions to try to get you to help yourself and offer nothing practical or tangible in reality. I really don't think there's a point talking to someone that doesn't understand and will throw you under the bus when it's inconvenient.

 

[Celerity]

It's a relationship based on money and not bringing up that taboo word which makes it completely pointless like you said. They're basically just sounding boards that ask you really dumb questions to try to get you to help yourself and offer nothing practical or tangible in reality. I really don't think there's a point talking to someone that doesn't understand and will throw you under the bus when it's inconvenient.

For real. The vast majority of the medications are useless too.

 

[Beachedwhale]

It's a relationship based on money and not bringing up that taboo word which makes it completely pointless like you said. They're basically just sounding boards that ask you really dumb questions to try to get you to help yourself and offer nothing practical or tangible in reality. I really don't think there's a point talking to someone that doesn't understand and will throw you under the bus when it's inconvenient.

Modern society has given us "therapists" and brain damaging meds.

Ancient society gave sacred hallucinogenic plants that are being shown to cure people's mental ailments but which were made illegal in modern society.

 

[EmbraceOfTheVoid]

Yes, most therapists must receive post-graduate education and certification. The education they receive is functionally like that of a priest; e.g. they are taught to view things through a very particular scope - whereas the priest is taught the lens of their particular religion, the therapist-to-be is taught the lens of contemporary psychology and its endless pathologies. Therapy in-and-of itself, is like a confessional in a church, the therapist is the priest and the patient the confessor. The patient confesses their worries and problems much like a would-be blasphemer would confess their "sins".

The sad thing is, "just put your head in the sand" is probably a pretty common response to the OPs concerns not only at mental health resources across the world, but from peers and colleagues; the patient lives in a world where being open about such things in the dehumanized, hyperindividualized public sphere typically only invites scrutiny and further alienation (likely from individuals who are just as alienated and scared as them), which increases their reliance on the therapist as much as it increases their sense of cognitive dissonance, as though they are caught between two realities in a depersonalized limbo. Of course, there's only the one reality as far as we know, but to this patient their inner world has become an enigma and its workings thoroughly mystified by an industry that portends one must go through many years of schooling and certification before they can make sense of the human mind; which is as absurd and circular claim to make as "God works in mysterious ways." - as if that explains why your toaster catching on fire this morning and the delay that caused made you miss your train commute derailing, killing everyone on board. Likewise, it is just as circular to tell someone they have a disease called "depression", which can only be treated by "trained professionals" - trained, of course, in "psychology", an invention of the human mind as much as the phrase "mental illness" with all it's implicit meanings. But the backbone of the entire practice is to be a truthclaim, much like any religion - they suppose "mental illness" to be as sacrosanct as religions hold their Gods; that is, as self-evident and infallible as a physicist would consider thermodynamics.

Perhaps it would be too radical to admit "depression" is an entirely normal reaction to a world in which one exists as a dehumanized, chronically hollowed-out wage slave whose life has been reduced to a series of empty, mindless labor and emptier consumption rituals, comforted only by addictive drugs pushed on them at every turn, and vacuous social ties of similarly hollowed out wageslaves who only know how to monologue and compete; who breathes, eats and shits microplastic, pollution and pesticides, and can't remember the last time they felt somebody actually cared if they lived or died. It'd be far too radical to admit we're living through the slow-motion collapse of the living super organism we call 'civilization' and every case of "depression" is like one little support column showing signs of giving out under the weight of a monstrosity that has become too bloated and labyrinthine for its own good. Then we'd be engaging in reality, giving the "illness" the scope it deserves, and psychology cares not for this.

The reality is, contemporary psychology functions much like a religion or a cult does, in that what one receives from it depends very much on what one puts into it - the power wielded by such organizations are directly correlate to belief of their followers. This is the power of placebo, confirmation bias, and magical thinking. If one considers their reaction to, say, climate change to be "abnormal", they merely have to walk into a therapist's office and their belief will be confirmed - their conscious experience will become a list of "symptoms" of "illness", for which they'll receive "medication". The words, the labels, the pills, they're all momentarily comforting, but none actually deal with the original problem any more than popping an Aspirin cures a raging influenza infection. That's because the entire "mental health industry" is palliative at best - worse yet, it serves at the behest of the state, which benefits massively from an industry that teaches individuals to view their life's problems through a scope that is not only decidedly apolitical but atomized as well.

Take an issue like climate change and this scope fails almost entirely - its sufficiently large-scale enough that the therapist's individualizing lens has no real answer to it. One who is trained in end-of-life therapy may have some more substantial answers that verge into decidedly philosophical territory, but most "by the book" therapists will preach willful ignorance; their role is not to create independent-thinking individuals, community leaders, politically-minded citizens or would-be revolutionaries, because they don't operate in this paradigm; an office vending machine is more communalistic than a therapist's office could ever claim to be. No, their role is to keep people complicit and complacent in the consume/work false dichotomy lifestyle for they are part of the very same paradigm, this being their work as much as preaching is a priests'. The "mental health" industry is obliged to meet the absurdity of the world it exists in and profits off of, and so existential terror becomes "eco-anxiety", another cutesy label which can be "treated" with the right combination of benzodiazepines and willful ignorance, just as a village witch doctor may have once treated "spiritual possession" with a concoction of ayahuasca and a ceremony. Now this ceremony only takes 45 minutes and $200 a week and a monthly trip to the pharmacy. Who ever said capitalism wasn't efficient?! -Suicidal stranger from the internet

 

[nolongerhuman]

I think the underlying problem that I've had with therapy is that there's this assumption that when you understand that your emotional reactions to things are irrational, they will stop. This has never worked out for me. I can tell my therapist means well but whatever techniques they teach you in psychology school have been woefully inadequate to deal with whatever is wrong with me. At this point I pay so I can vent about my problems to somebody who doesn't immediately freak out at the word 'suicide' and that's about it. It's better than nothing but it isn't really good enough.

 

[rs929]

There is a heavy bias here against therapists and psychiatrists because obviously they haven't worked for us, otherwise we wouldn't dwell on a suicide forum. But the reality is that therapy, be it psychodynamic or CBT and/or medications DO have evidence in their favour, they DO work for a number of people that could be 1% 10% or 90% but we are obviously not included, because again, we wouldn't be here.

Just open Google Scholar and do some research if you don't believe me.

Now, there are a number of us who therapy or shrinks are helping only partially, or not helping at all, or even being iatrogenic.

But honestly this ends up in a circle jerk about how therapists sucks and then we perpetually reinforce our tendencies to suicide and I think it's just wrong. We shouldn't keep ppl off therapists. It's just wrong... and dangerous. If your therapist is not working, try someone else. It's common to try several therapists before you find the right one. Or try different meds. Yeah PSSD is a thing but it doesn't happen to everyone and if you are contemplating suicide taking a medication that may save your life is absolutely worth the low risk of any permanent damage which is kind of controversial specially with SSRI's or SNRI's.

Sorry, my two cents. I think everyone with mental illnesses should at least try therapy and meds.

EDIT: I know some members have been damaged by meds and it's not my intention to invalidate their experiences. It is a fact that statistically those things do not happen frequently. So meds are a good choice for severe depressed people and other mental illnesses

 

[Celerity]

There is a heavy bias here against therapists and psychiatrists because obviously they haven't worked for us, otherwise we wouldn't dwell on a suicide forum. But the reality is that therapy, be it psychodynamic or CBT and/or medications DO have evidence in their favour, they DO work for a number of people that could be 1% 10% or 90% but we are obviously not included, because again, we wouldn't be here.

Just open Google Scholar and do some research if you don't believe me.

Now, there are a number of us who therapy or shrinks are helping only partially, or not helping at all, or even being iatrogenic.

But honestly this ends up in a circle jerk about how therapists sucks and then we perpetually reinforce our tendencies to suicide and I think it's just wrong. We shouldn't keep ppl off therapists. It's just wrong... and dangerous. If your therapist is not working, try someone else. It's common to try several therapists before you find the right one. Or try different meds. Yeah PSSD is a thing but it doesn't happen to everyone and if you are contemplating suicide taking a medication that may save your life is absolutely worth the low risk of any permanent damage which is kind of controversial specially with SSRI's or SNRI's.

Sorry, my two cents. I think everyone with mental illnesses should at least try therapy and meds.

EDIT: I know some members have been damaged by meds and it's not my intention to invalidate their experiences. It is a fact that statistically those things do not happen frequently. So meds are a good choice for severe depressed people and other mental illnesses

I've been to multiple therapists and could open a pharmacy with all the meds that have passed through my medicine cabinet. Maybe it works for people who have mild problems, but it's almost a waste of time for everybody else. Those efforts barely kept me alive and sometimes made life worse.

 

[jenny6391bubbles]

From what I've learned in psychology, the problem also with therapy is that it's kind of Western-centric and it's hard for people who live in non-Westernized countries to be able to fully reap the benefits of therapy.

Aside from that, a lot of the problems in the world are sadly not really solved by therapy and medications alone. Yes they can help, but you can't really get rid of someone's need to commit suicide due to climate change worsening the world (hopefully companies and countries that pollute the air so much will lessen their greenhouse gas release or something in the coming years). Some people's problems can only be solved through systemic or societal change and it fucking sucks because it takes too long or it never happens because humanity in general sucks.

 

[Umbreon]

The problem with therapy is that it's a fakity fake ass profession that doesn't actually do anything. "12 rules for life" by Jordan Peterson has done more for me than any therapy. I bet if everyone here read that book half of us would leave the site

 

[MyStateKilledMe]

It's a relationship based on money and not bringing up that taboo word which makes it completely pointless like you said. They're basically just sounding boards that ask you really dumb questions to try to get you to help yourself and offer nothing practical or tangible in reality. I really don't think there's a point talking to someone that doesn't understand and will throw you under the bus when it's inconvenient.

Talk therapists are basically emotional hookers (men too). They're even worse, in fact. Street hookers at least put up a front of wanting to please you. Therapists try to break you down by hitting your emotional triggers, and spin it as being for your own good. And in both cases, you walk away feeling dirty.

Family therapists are exponentially worse, because they pretend to be your friend, while actually serving your family, the people who emotionally abuse you. And when you confide to them about the abuse, they try to gaslight you into thinking the abuse doesn't exist.

 

[signifying nothing]

how could a therapist exactly help us?

I think this is the key question. And one of the biggest problems is finding the right kind of therapist for what it is that you need/expect to get out of it. If only that were easier then maybe more therapy would be worthwhile, rather than just the waste of time and money it seems to be for a lot of people.

 

[HenryHobkins]

People with deep problems seek therapists and unfortunately will sometimes get lumped with the 'shrinks' or talk therapy counsellors. They can help people manage stress but not much else. This is what they provide for us at my university, and the difference between them and the therapy office recommended to me by my Pcp is extraordinary.

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

CTB over CBT, tbh.

 

[MrBigSad]

There's nothing a therapist can do that you can't do for yourself , and that's the true problem with therapy .

 

[DonTellMeToStayAlive]

The problems as I see them - cognitive behavioral therapy is a cancer, and therapists reject the idea that suicide can be a rational choice even if you're "mentally ill".

Why do you call cognitive behavorial therapy as cancer ?
Just curious

 

[929er]

tbh I've never understood how someone that is severely depressed and that has the mindset that suicide is the only way, could ever benefit from shallow conversation motivated by money. might as well talk to a random person or a "friend" the degree doesn't make much difference aside from them understanding the why behind certain behaviours better than the regular person.

i guess it's good for people who can benefit from it, but for me it just seems as pointless as everything else.

 

[Carrotcake]

Makes me think of the "you can bring a horse to the water, but you can't make the horse drink it".

A therapist can tell me my emotions and thoughts are wrong, but they can't make me stop thinking them. They can tell me to be active during the day, but only I can ultimately do so. They can tell me not to hate myself, but I have to practice that. They can tell me how I can get out of my depression, but then I have to do it myself. And I can't do those things. So that's where it ends.

 

[stygal]

Since I've started working with a new therapist that is understanding and actually tells me all my emotions are valid - I feel at least a little more relaxed and as if a big burden was taken off my shoulders.
But of course I understand that it doesnt and wont work like that for everyone and that neither mine nor anyones persisting ctb-thoughts will be vanishing through that (or meds) but that isnt my primary goal: I mainly want to 1. work through my past traumas (and/or vent) and 2. be able to utilize my remaining time as best as I can by (maybe) having a healthier attitude towards situations that are yet to come and find better coping mechanisms to apply (besides hurting myself figuratively speaking).

 

[Sensei]

@WornOutLife, it's perhaps beside the point, but I know that you're bipolar just like me, and psychotherapy has little to no effect on bipolarity, and that includes depressive episodes. Words can't change a chemical imbalance in the brain. Medication can, though.

 

[EmbraceOfTheVoid]

There is a heavy bias here against therapists and psychiatrists because obviously they haven't worked for us, otherwise we wouldn't dwell on a suicide forum. But the reality is that therapy, be it psychodynamic or CBT and/or medications DO have evidence in their favour, they DO work for a number of people that could be 1% 10% or 90% but we are obviously not included, because again, we wouldn't be here.

Just open Google Scholar and do some research if you don't believe me.

Now, there are a number of us who therapy or shrinks are helping only partially, or not helping at all, or even being iatrogenic.

But honestly this ends up in a circle jerk about how therapists sucks and then we perpetually reinforce our tendencies to suicide and I think it's just wrong. We shouldn't keep ppl off therapists. It's just wrong... and dangerous. If your therapist is not working, try someone else. It's common to try several therapists before you find the right one. Or try different meds. Yeah PSSD is a thing but it doesn't happen to everyone and if you are contemplating suicide taking a medication that may save your life is absolutely worth the low risk of any permanent damage which is kind of controversial specially with SSRI's or SNRI's.

Sorry, my two cents. I think everyone with mental illnesses should at least try therapy and meds.

EDIT: I know some members have been damaged by meds and it's not my intention to invalidate their experiences. It is a fact that statistically those things do not happen frequently. So meds are a good choice for severe depressed people and other mental illnesses

I'm sure that therapy does help some people but I'd hazard a guess that a majority of them were already highly functional to begin with and could already deal with their problems on their own without the aid of therapy. These are the people who have mild problems that only need someone to talk to and make the claim that their depression was cured by therapy in 3 months due to placebo. For example, my brother goes to therapy and he makes 100k, has a wife, socializes fine, and doesn't have any severe emotional problems. Do you think it's a fair comparison to justify the efficacy of therapy based on someone like him?

For people who deal with genetic ailments like autism or bipolar, various forms of trauma that have destroyed their minds and have made them incapable of functioning, perpetual poverty & homelessness, disability, and various other forms of severe problems; therapy does very little in reality. Many drugs and therapies are backed because they're profitable, not because they're effective.

Like someone mentioned earlier, CBT is a invalidating cancer that tells people their thoughts and feelings are wrong despite them being appropriate for the things they've experienced. It's a form of therapy that is constantly pushed because it works for people that have mild problems. Nobody in the world can control their thoughts or feelings and yet we have a form of therapy that claims it can perform magic because insurance companies don't want to pay for anything that might actually be useful. You can try to think differently all you want but if you have to go back to living in a cardboard box or your dad beats you after the therapy session then you'll still think and feel just like you always have.

Selling Bad Therapy to Trauma Victims

Patients and therapists should ignore new guidelines for treating trauma.

www.psychologytoday.com

Talk therapists are basically emotional hookers (men too). They're even worse, in fact. Street hookers at least put up a front of wanting to please you. Therapists try to break you down by hitting your emotional triggers, and spin it as being for your own good. And in both cases, you walk away feeling dirty.

Family therapists are exponentially worse, because they pretend to be your friend, while actually serving your family, the people who emotionally abuse you. And when you confide to them about the abuse, they try to gaslight you into thinking the abuse doesn't exist.

I actually found the approach of talk therapy and therapists working under the idea of attachment as a form of healing to be extremely toxic. It's one sided and if you're suicidal then you'll always see your therapist as a authority figure that's a threat to you. I know the point is to have that unconditional love that your parents are suppose to give you but it's a extremely dysfunctional "relationship" because you are paying someone to pretend to care about you who will toss you aside when it's inconvenient. How is this suppose to be helpful if you had abusive parents when it only reminds you of the very same? I don't believe that most of these people have any insight, they regurgitate the same things they were taught and lack the critical thinking to put themselves in someone else's shoes.

 

[WornOutLife]

@WornOutLife, it's perhaps beside the point, but I know that you're bipolar just like me, and psychotherapy has little to no effect on bipolarity, and that includes depressive episodes. Words can't change a chemical imbalance in the brain. Medication can, though.

I couldn't have put it in better words.
Fortunately, I got a new psych who gives me meds and makes me great questions such as "How long did your DOWNS last yesterday?" and gives me a new pill or new dose as regards that.
However, just like you said, therapy had no effect. How on Earth could I feel better if someone just tells me "Oh, you had a bad day but relax, tomorrow will be better. You just gotta control your emotions." lol
Talking to my dad and dog has certainly helped me much more than therapy!

 

[rs929]

I couldn't have put it in better words.
Fortunately, I got a new psych who gives me meds and makes me great questions such as "How long did your DOWNS last yesterday?" and gives me a new pill or new dose as regards that.
However, just like you said, therapy had no effect. How on Earth could I feel better if someone just tells me "Oh, you had a bad day but relax, tomorrow will be better. You just gotta control your emotions." lol
Talking to my dad has certainly helped me much more than therapy!

Oh come on, where have you found such therapist?

 

[WornOutLife]

Oh come on, where have you found such therapist?

Not only 1, but like 10 of them during all these years.
I guess my health insurance sucks but it seems I'm not alone. Many people here (who even posted on this thread) have had bad experiences too.

 

[UseItOrLoseIt]

Talking to my dad has certainly helped me much more than therapy!

Yes. Talk at some point doesn't help anymore. Except if it's someone close to you that actually knows you as a person and not as a conglomerate of certain symptoms.
For me, the problem with therapist was always the same - I didn't get the feeling they see and validate me as a human being. For them the solution (and the problem) always seemed simple. I find that disrespectful.