Discussion The paradoxical hurdle of suicide

[U. A.]

This came to me lately and I mulled it over a few days. It's been helping me feel a bit better about the fact that I am still sitting on my ass not killing myself like a whiny baby, when really all logical points indicate it is the rational option. Nothing major here, likely not even new; just something I found in the back of my brain and gave shape. Maybe it's in others' too and maybe this will help someone with the "WHY IS THIS SO HARD?!?"-type thoughts I often see posted here. I haven't encountered it before, so:

The whole goal of most suicides, contrary to what "they" say, is escaping suffering—suffering that is usually impressed upon us by external factors, forces outside our control.

The paradox of suicide is that, in most cases—to varying degrees, with or without cognitive awareness—committing suicide is deliberately subjecting ourselves to one of the most suffering-inducing experiences we can possibly have. To the point the body may literally go on autopilot to stop "you" from killing "it" (there are plenty of examples on this site of this).

Aside from the obvious problem, there's the less obvious one of agency. To a point, at least for me, there's something fundamentally different (at least on its face) about the idea of passively accepting the suffering caused by bullshit that the world throws at me which makes me want to off myself, and me being the acting agent behind the most extreme experience of suffering imaginable.

A lot of people here talking about their circumstances being their "own fault" or the like, but I don't think that's the same. Most of the time such accounts seem to be couched in stories about societal rejection, lack of ability/ies, efforts (of any kind) in life failing, or false perceptions of worth due to monstrous upbringings causing people to internalize an artificial (though not to them) sense of inherent inferiority and/or inadequacy.

All of these to me still fall under the umbrella of unintentional suffering. Even "unhealthy coping mechanisms" are done for immediate gratification; undesirable outcomes are just part of the cost (drug addiction for obvious example: the act of taking the drug is immediate, pleasurable and what is desired; things like withdrawal and subsequent deleterious life events are mere aftereffects and, if you're a "high-functioning" addict with connections, may not even be part of the picture).

Suicide is different.

Unless you're lucky enough to have barbiturates, the thing we're truly after comes only after/with a massive potential of anguish; the utterly unknowability of the process, whether it fails, changing our minds, being "saved", simply failing, ending up worse off afterward in any number of ways, etc. etc.
If I shoot up see heroin, I know I'll get high and feel good. If I drink some SN, I have no fucking clue what will happen. And no way to know, given every experience is different and we really can't "test run" dying. We either die, or we don't.

And it's all that comes along with the "when we don't" that very justifiably throws a massive iron bar in the spokes of our bike wheels.​

 

[_Gollum_]

If you haven't already seen it: Thoughts on Suicide, Fear, and Life | Kefka Ponders

I think what I hate most of all is having to deal with all of this in the first place. I don't want to have to deal with suicide. I don't want to have to deal with death. But I must because I have something else I have to deal with, something I never wanted to deal with, something I wish I never had: life.

But, oh, how I so do not want to deal with any of this! I want to be spared from life, but in order to do that I must face suicide. However, I also want to be spared from suicide. But if I turn from suicide, I'm back to facing life!

 

[U. A.]

If you haven't already seen it: Thoughts on Suicide, Fear, and Life | Kefka Ponders

I know there's that Kafka quotation about suicide floating around and thought for sure this was a typo...how comical it is in fact a reference to the megalomaniacal antagonist of Final Fantasy VI. Great excerpt, saving for later; thank you ^_^

 

[Mr.Tristesse]

Well as you saw this is pretty much the exact same thing I wrote and that I was thinking about as well.

Though SN sadly is one of those methods that really exemplifies this.

If these fears and considerations weren't present and it were simply a matter of grappling with death, it would be a whole lot easier (though not easy) and I'm sure for a lot of is there were moments where we would have it had it not been for all these other issuss.

It's a lot easier to deal with unpleasantness if you have confidence you'll get the outcome you want in the end.

 

[vira]

This came to me lately and I mulled it over a few days. It's been helping me feel a bit better about the fact that I am still sitting on my ass not killing myself like a whiny baby, when really all logical points indicate it is the rational option. Nothing major here, likely not even new; just something I found in the back of my brain and gave shape. Maybe it's in others' too and maybe this will help someone with the "WHY IS THIS SO HARD?!?"-type thoughts I often see posted here. I haven't encountered it before, so:

The whole goal of most suicides, contrary to what "they" say, is escaping suffering—suffering that is usually impressed upon us by external factors, forces outside our control.

The paradox of suicide is that, in most cases—to varying degrees, with or without cognitive awareness—committing suicide is deliberately subjecting ourselves to one of the most suffering-inducing experiences we can possibly have. To the point the body may literally go on autopilot to stop "you" from killing "it" (there are plenty of examples on this site of this).

Aside from the obvious problem, there's the less obvious one of agency. To a point, at least for me, there's something fundamentally different (at least on its face) about the idea of passively accepting the suffering caused by bullshit that the world throws at me which makes me want to off myself, and me being the acting agent behind the most extreme experience of suffering imaginable.

A lot of people here talking about their circumstances being their "own fault" or the like, but I don't think that's the same. Most of the time such accounts seem to be couched in stories about societal rejection, lack of ability/ies, efforts (of any kind) in life failing, or false perceptions of worth due to monstrous upbringings causing people to internalize an artificial (though not to them) sense of inherent inferiority and/or inadequacy.

All of these to me still fall under the umbrella of unintentional suffering. Even "unhealthy coping mechanisms" are done for immediate gratification; undesirable outcomes are just part of the cost (drug addiction for obvious example: the act of taking the drug is immediate, pleasurable and what is desired; things like withdrawal and subsequent deleterious life events are mere aftereffects and, if you're a "high-functioning" addict with connections, may not even be part of the picture).

Suicide is different.

Unless you're lucky enough to have barbiturates, the thing we're truly after comes only after/with a massive potential of anguish; the utterly unknowability of the process, whether it fails, changing our minds, being "saved", simply failing, ending up worse off afterward in any number of ways, etc. etc.
If I shoot up see heroin, I know I'll get high and feel good. If I drink some SN, I have no fucking clue what will happen. And no way to know, given every experience is different and we really can't "test run" dying. We either die, or we don't.

And it's all that comes along with the "when we don't" that very justifiably throws a massive iron bar in the spokes of our bike wheels.​

you should read dark matters by whats-her-name (not literally), its pretty good

 

[Pluto]