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BipolarGuy

BipolarGuy

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Aug 6, 2020
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I'm glad you understand that. In this comment I am still calm.



Okay. In return, allow me to respond with analysis and constructive criticsm of what you have said, not of you.



"I and others" is triangulation, which creates an impression of power against me, who is speaking alone and standing alone.

"Do not need to constantly pull out hundreds of direct quotes or PM's in order for what we say to be 'valid.'" -- As far as I know, you've never pulled out any, so I don't see that there's been any extraordinary effort on your part, or on the part of others. Please correct me with evidence if I am in error.

This is the first time PMs have been mentioned that I am aware of, so I get the impression you're piling on more evidence on top of the implied overwhelming evidence that has never been presented. I would hope you don't quote PMs because they are private communications.



There is a search function, so if you recall using certain terms (e.g., "pro-life" or "bitter souls), you can narrow them down by adding your username to the search. This is a stash of ready evidence and is highly practical. And, respectfully, whatever I expectations I may have for you to provide evidence to support your claims, it is only of you, not of "people," which is a subtle triangulation that implies I am being onerous to many people, and anyone who agrees with you may cued to think that I am onerous to them as well.



It has neither been invalidated nor invalidated.



In post 40, you quoted me to defend yourself when I was commenting to the member who used that term and asked, isn't it policing the forum? It has gotten conflated, but I will resist being pedantic and concede my error.



First, I'd like to point out "me (and others)." This is a triangulation. I am only speaking to you about what you said in the OP and what you have said directly to me in this thread.

I don't wish to draw a comparison and don't need encouragement or permission to go right ahead, I already did. That was condescending and therefore belittling phrasing. It's also subtle but powerful shaming.

Another triangulation, that not only you but also other members won't agree to my comparison.

I'd like to make two constructive criticisms here: 1. Using others as a shield and as a way to make yourself bigger reveals that you don't feel strong enough or big enough in your position to stand alone against me. 2. Belittling reveals that you felt small in response to my comparison, and so tried to make me smaller than you. While I strive to speak to you eye to eye, you attempt to push me down and put my in my place. Someone else used to do the same thing, she was a close relative. She could never admit her position wasn't solid, and being called abusive triggered cognitive dissonance when she clung to being right and righteous, therefore she doubled down and fought me for fighting back when she was fighting.



This is an evasion and shifting the conversation off the forum into other locations.

The statement about not trying to convince anyone that this is happening is a strawman argument. You triangulated multiple times, you belittled me, and if that didn't knock me from my position, then you created a new situation to knock me down, and of course it would be wrong if I had made such an erroneous claim. It's a red herring, and I'm not going to take the bait and fight with you about something that isn't even happening. The final sentence is belittling me for believing something I don't believe.

StrawPersonEffed is quite ashamed, though, for making that accusation and believing it when it's not true. She's a right dumbarse and she knows it.


(I admit I gave in to the temptation at the end to employ humor and that it was also sarcastic. The thought just cracked me up. If you are offended, I'll concede that to you as well.)
I may respond later. I'm out at the moment.

However I would just make the point that I feel that you're taking this thread down a path that would turn the thread into the type of debate had in university debating unions.

There is no conscious effort on my part to use 'triangulation', nor an effort to make out there is more evidence piling against you simply by me refering to PM's.

Not all of us are entrenching ourselves into a position then setting up a formal debate.
 
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depression999

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Aug 18, 2020
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First, pro-life is a narrow ideological stance. Akin to abortion, suicide is wrong, and no individual "should" make the choice to suicide, nor consider it. On should repress that immediately and use their reason if they possess it to get help. If they do not possess such reason, as it is the only reasonable and logical thing to do, then someone must step in and make sure they become that logical. They may need the emergency intervention of a locked psych ward for their own good, because they're incapable of knowing what's for their own good.

As far as what a friend or family member would of course do, that's a strawman argument. It makes all unique friends and family members into a stereotype and says for all of them, "This is logical. Of course we don't want to lose you."

A pro-choice stance, which is also ideological but broader, says the individual has the right and the capacity to choose for themselves whether to live or to die. This is particularly reflected on the forum when people celebrate that a member decides to live and mourns when a member decides to die. It is non-attachment to either outcome and therefore does not seek to influence someone's choice unless they ask for such input. Pro-life supports only one choice and only has one kind of input.

I understand what you are saying. Obviously I can only tell you my views but I do not know one person that is against abortion or against suicide. I also think people shouldn't consider suicide until they have tried every option and that includes asking for help, going to a GP, speaking to anyone. If they don't then I think that is extremely selfish for the family and friends they leave behind. I know loads of people that have gone to the doctors myself included and told them I/them have depression and/or anxiety and no one has been 'locked up' this obviously depends on which country you are from, I am from the UK and I don't know anyone who has ever been sectioned. Depression and anxiety are not frowned upon like it used to be it's more openly talked about of course it makes some people feel uncomfortable but there are many out there who want to help who would do everything in there power to prevent another suicide to a temporary problem. Everyone has there problems, there is not one person in the world that has had a breeze of a life. but ending your life without seeking help from anybody is just plain stupid. People do have the right to decide whether to live or die but thinking about the consequences of your actions is just human decency. Especially when considering the feelings/ mental health of your loved ones that you leave behind feeling devastated, heartbroken and guilty with no knowledge that the person was feeling down because they didn't want help. But hey at least they have a nice note written to them explaining why on a scrap piece of paper.
Hahaha! I Love it!

On a slightly more serious note (one note closer to serious, maybe two), what if the choice of one individual is to step over the choice of another?

okay I'm a bit confused you may have to explain further haha
Fair point. Only thing Id say is that because a lot of people feel negative about life on here, it's probably normal that a little bit of bias against Pro life will show. Doesn't mean it's right but human nature maybe?
Of course, I understand that :)
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
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However I would just make the point that I feel that you're taking this thread down a path that would turn the thread into the type of debate had in university debating unions.

First, reason and logic fit in every realm. If they're not allowed in your threads since the forum is not a university (or courtroom or science lab), it's good to set that boundary the OP. Second, I'm paraphrasing here, but you previously claimed to be unapologetically rational and an experienced debater. Would you prefer I provide the evidence? It's not burdensome for me to do so.

I'm not going to respond to the rest because, along with the part I quoted, they're attempts to shift the focus away from my points. You engaged, but I don't engage how you prefer. It is again evidence that you do not have a strong position and so act strong and try to direct the attention elsewhere.

You started out with a combative OP, the projection of strength I'm referring to, and the mode has remained consistent here. It's okay for you to call out others' behaviors and condemn the actors; I am pointing out your behaviors but I have yet to attack you personally and I won't. I'm solid enough in myself to have a respectful conversation and to disagree and to admit when I am in error. I hope that you will respond in kind, but I neither expect it nor insist upon it because we each are autonomous beings and I will not seek to control you, turn others against you, nor try to get anyone on my side in order to gang up on you. If someone agrees with me, it's irrelevant to me.

I respect that something is bothering you and that you are speaking about it, but I am not at all influenced by how you are speaking about it. Critically, the OP was mostly bluster and posturing and belittling, which indicate a weak position. Telling me I'm talking too smart is equal to saying you're not talking smart, and to stop being intelligent and rational and dummy down so you can win or I should get off the thread because I'm taking it to a bad place. That's not a strawman argument, it's a critical analysis.
 
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BipolarGuy

BipolarGuy

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Aug 6, 2020
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First, reason and logic fit in every realm. If they're not allowed in your threads since the forum is not a university (or courtroom or science lab), it's good to set that boundary the OP. Second, I'm paraphrasing here, but you previously claimed to be unapologetically rational and an experienced debater. Would you prefer I provide the evidence? It's not burdensome for me to do so.

I'm not going to respond to the rest because, along with the part I quoted, they're attempts to shift the focus away from my points. You engaged, but I don't engage how you prefer. It is again evidence that you do not have a strong position and so act strong and try to direct the attention elsewhere.

You started out with a combative OP, and the mode has remained consistent. It's okay for you to call out others' behaviors and condemn the actors; I am pointing out your behaviors but I have yet to attack you personally and I won't. I'm solid enough in myself to have a respectful conversation and to disagree and to admit when I am in error. I hope that you will respond in kind, but I neither expect it nor insist upon it because we each are autonomous beings and I will not seek to control you nor turn others against you nor try to get anyone on my side to gang up on you. I respect that something is bothering you and that you are speaking about it, but I am not at all influenced by how you are speaking about it. The OP was mostly bluster and posturing and belittling, which indicate a weak position.
OK, if you believe my positon is weak then I am happy for you to label the OP "bluster" , "posturing" and "belittling".
I am also happy for you to believe, contrary to what I and others in this thread (and other threads) have said, that this is all utter nonsense and isn't happening at all.

Take good care of yourself :)
 
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depression999

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Aug 18, 2020
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First, reason and logic fit in every realm. If they're not allowed in your threads since the forum is not a university (or courtroom or science lab), it's good to set that boundary the OP. Second, I'm paraphrasing here, but you previously claimed to be unapologetically rational and an experienced debater. Would you prefer I provide the evidence? It's not burdensome for me to do so.

I'm not going to respond to the rest because, along with the part I quoted, they're attempts to shift the focus away from my points. You engaged, but I don't engage how you prefer. It is again evidence that you do not have a strong position and so act strong and try to direct the attention elsewhere.

You started out with a combative OP, and the mode has remained consistent. It's okay for you to call out others' behaviors and condemn the actors; I am pointing out your behaviors but I have yet to attack you personally and I won't. I'm solid enough in myself to have a respectful conversation and to disagree and to admit when I am in error. I hope that you will respond in kind, but I neither expect it nor insist upon it because we each are autonomous beings and I will not seek to control you nor turn others against you nor try to get anyone on my side to gang up on you. I respect that something is bothering you and that you are speaking about it, but I am not at all influenced by how you are speaking about it. The OP was mostly bluster and posturing and belittling, which indicate a weak position.

i think you need to take a break from SS with all this 'evidence' you have on everyone. You must spend your life going through everyone's profiles to see what dirt you can dig up
 
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BipolarGuy

BipolarGuy

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Aug 6, 2020
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i think you need to take a break from SS with all this 'evidence' you have on everyone. You must spend your life going through everyone's profiles to see what dirt you can dig up
@GoodPersonEffed is a good person. But his/her effort is misplaced.
 
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depression999

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Aug 18, 2020
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@GoodPersonEffed is a good person. But his/her effort is misplaced.

i don't disagree, everyone has good in them. I'm just getting very pro-suicide vibes and I don't like it.
 
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BipolarGuy

BipolarGuy

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Aug 6, 2020
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i don't disagree, everyone has good in them. I'm just getting very pro-suicide vibes and I don't like it.
Well I have witnessed GPE make a statement that the forum is getting or becoming very pro-life recently. Though I don't know whether they were referring to people like me who take a more moderate/neutral position, or whether they were referring to pro-life (as they called them) intervention.

I personally suspect what is happening is that if anybody mentiones that there may be pro-suicide undercurrents on this forum from a minority, that minority will then ask you for evidence. Perhaps they are right to, that's for individuals to judge, but for sure they seem to negate the personal experience of various members.
I suspect that if evidence were presented, the response would be "well that's just one person" or "well that's just ten people", and then the whole thing would be made out to be something different than what it is.
I don't respond to this for two reasons: 1. I feel I know where it's going, and 2. I don't feel the need to spend my time trying to convince someone who is asking for a higher standard of 'evidence' than what would usually be required on an internet chat room (as I said, this isn't a court, and I'm not about to publish a scientific paper).
 
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Ghost2211

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Jan 20, 2020
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i don't disagree, everyone has good in them. I'm just getting very pro-suicide vibes and I don't like it.
Liking to debate doesn't make someone pro suicide, but rather desiring to pick apart the discussion.
 
GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
i think you need to take a break from SS with all this 'evidence' you have on everyone. You must spend your life going through everyone's profiles to see what dirt you can dig up

I'm getting a very controlling vibe, but I'm not uncomfortable because I'm solid in who I am.

i don't disagree, everyone has good in them. I'm just getting very pro-suicide vibes and I don't like it.

I'm exactly the same as I've been since I joined. I am pro-choice, I've explained the stance. If you don't like what you feel when you read what I comment, I have no control or influence over that.
Well I have witnessed GPE make a statement that the forum is getting or becoming very pro-life recently. Though I don't know whether they were referring to people like me who take a more moderate/neutral position, or whether they were referring to pro-life (as they called them) intervention.

Please provide the quote and I will respond. It is not an exact quote and it's not in context. You are smearing me. It is another power play when you can't defend your position. You are the one derailing your own thread, so accusing me of doing so was a projection.

Keep attacking me, I'm still here, well hydrated, and not at all worn down or knocked down.
 
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BipolarGuy

BipolarGuy

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Liking to debate doesn't make someone pro suicide, but rather desiring to pick apart the discussion.
While I agree with this, since it's obviously true, I don't think this is what he was saying, not directly anyway....
Please provide the quote and I will respond. It is not an exact quote and it's not in context. You are smearing me. It is another power play when you can't defend your position. You are the one derailing your own thread, so accusing me of doing so was a projection.

Keep attacking me, I'm still here, well hydrated, and not at all worn down or knocked down.
I don't feel that I need to.

Err, yeah. A 'projection'.
Oh yes definitely, a 'power play'.
OK.

I'm sorry if you feel attacked.
Does that make me a pro-lifer???

Anyway, enjoy the rest of your day.
 
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depression999

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I'm getting a very controlling vibe, but I'm not uncomfortable because I'm solid in who I am.



I'm exactly the same as I've been since I joined. I am pro-choice, I've explained the stance. If you don't like what you feel when you read what I comment, I have no control or influence over that.


Please provide the quote and I will respond. It is not an exact quote and it's not in context. You are smearing me. It is another power play when you can't defend your position. You are the one derailing your own thread, so accusing me of doing so was a projection.

Keep attacking me, I'm still here, well hydrated, and not at all worn down or knocked down.
Hahaha I don't really care whether you think I am controlling or not. I have no control over any situation here so that would not benefit me at all. I am both. I am pro life until someone has tried absolutely everything then I am pro choice.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
Liking to debate doesn't make someone pro suicide, but rather desiring to pick apart the discussion.

Welcome to my headspace and heartspace, @RoseyBird. You didn't announce yourself before entering, but since you're already here, please tell me more about what I desire.
 
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Ghost2211

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Jan 20, 2020
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While I agree with this, since it's obviously true, I don't think this is what he was saying, not directly anyway....
I just think he read too deep into it.
Welcome to my headspace and heartspace, @RoseyBird. You didn't announce yourself before entering, but since you're already here, please tell me more about what I desire.
No need to get defensive. My statement was about how he was processing the situation. Is there a reason you're so eager to argue?
 
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depression999

Member
Aug 18, 2020
36
Well I have witnessed GPE make a statement that the forum is getting or becoming very pro-life recently. Though I don't know whether they were referring to people like me who take a more moderate/neutral position, or whether they were referring to pro-life (as they called them) intervention.

I personally suspect what is happening is that if anybody mentioned that there may be pro-suicide undercurrents on this forum from a minority, that minority will then ask you for evidence. Perhaps they are right to, that's for individuals to judge, but for sure they seem to negate personal experience of various members.
I suspect that if evidence were presented, the response would be "well that's just one person" or "well that's just ten people", and then the whole thing would be made out to be something different than what it is.
I don't respond to this for two reasons: 1. I feel I know where it's going, and 2. I don't feel the need to spend my time trying to convince someone who is asking for a higher standard of 'evidence' than what would usually be required on an internet chat room (as I said, this isn't a court, and I'm not about to publish a scientific paper).

definitely, there should be no evidence anyway what you have written in the past doesn't mean that you still believe in those views, people's opinions change everyday.
Liking to debate doesn't make someone pro suicide, but rather desiring to pick apart the discussion.

i never said liking to debate makes someone pro suicide, whether you think I'm reading into it too much is your opinion and I'm happy to accept that opinion
 
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BipolarGuy

BipolarGuy

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i never said liking to debate makes someone pro suicide, whether you think I'm reading into it too much is your opinion and I'm happy to accept that opinion

It's OK, @RoseyBird was being nice to you, not argumentative :)
 
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BipolarGuy

BipolarGuy

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Aug 6, 2020
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Sorry @RoseyBird my mistake :)
Sorry, but do you have evidence that it's your mistake?

Or is it just a power play, and you're triangulating on @RoseyBird ?

;)
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
He doesn't engage how you prefer either.

Quite true. But I haven't told him to change, and I have brought ephemeral other people to strengthen my position. I've critiqued his approach and his logic, I have not denied there is a problem, nor have I yet been convinced there is one, and I remain open to the possibility. The original power was the throwing of the first punches in a fight, ans I've critiqued his fighting technique. He's sparred with me here as well, and it's been an clean fight on my end.
 
BipolarGuy

BipolarGuy

Enlightened
Aug 6, 2020
1,456
Quite true. But I haven't told him to change, and I have brought ephemeral other people to strengthen my position. I've critiqued his approach and his logic, I have not denied there is a problem, nor have I yet been convinced there is one, and I remain open to the possibility. The original power was the throwing of the first punches in a fight, ans I've critiqued his fighting technique. He's sparred with me here as well, and it's been an clean fight on my end.
I don't see this as a fight, but ok you fought cleanly. Well done?

I think the issue is that you were coming at it differently to how everyone else in the thread came at it.
No, I haven't finished writing the paper which proves it yet.

EDIT: No, that's not a 'power play' to single you out, and I'm not triangulating.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
No need to get defensive. My statement was about how he was processing the situation. Is there a reason you're so eager to argue?

You explained me for myself. You entered my headspace. You said what I desire. Now you're explaining that I'm eager to argue. I don't dislike you, but I dislike you explaining me. Please don't.
 
BipolarGuy

BipolarGuy

Enlightened
Aug 6, 2020
1,456
You explained me for myself. You entered my headspace. You said what I desire. Now you're explaining that I'm eager to argue. I don't dislike you, but I dislike you explaining me. Please don't.
I agree.

@RoseyBird stated that you were eager to argue, and it's not as though there is any evidence for it.
 
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Ghost2211

Archangel
Jan 20, 2020
6,017
You explained me for myself. You entered my headspace. You said what I desire. Now you're explaining that I'm eager to argue. I don't dislike you, but I dislike you explaining me. Please don't.
I see, though I feel you misread my intent. Regardless I see I'm out of place in this discussion either way, my apologies.
 
BipolarGuy

BipolarGuy

Enlightened
Aug 6, 2020
1,456
I see, though I feel you misread my intent. Regardless I see I'm out of place in this discussion either way, my apologies.
Just to let you know, my post #83 wasn't serious :)
 
GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
I think the issue is that you were coming at it differently to how everyone else in the thread came at it.
[...]

EDIT: No, that's not a 'power play' to single you out, and I'm not triangulating.

You're gaslighting. You triangulate and single me out and then tell me that my perceptions of what I experience and observe are false. If I give you power to define reality for me, I give you power over me. Respectfully and calmly: I will not.
 
BipolarGuy

BipolarGuy

Enlightened
Aug 6, 2020
1,456
You're gaslighting. You triangulate and single me out and then tell me that my perceptions of what I experience and observe are false. If I give you power to define reality for me, I give you power over me. Respectfully and calmly: I will not.

OK sorry for putting you through really horrible emotional abuse, I wish you the best and I hope you are able to recover in time.

#FightThePower
 
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depression999

Member
Aug 18, 2020
36
Sorry, but do you have evidence that it's your mistake?

Or is it just a power play, and you're triangulating on @RoseyBird ?

;)

haha I am currently doing a presentation to show my evidence
You're gaslighting. You triangulate and single me out and then tell me that my perceptions of what I experience and observe are false. If I give you power to define reality for me, I give you power over me. Respectfully and calmly: I will not.

I do think that comment is unfair. I do not believe @BipolarGuy is trying to single you out. You make it sound as though he is hunting you down and harassing you and trying to turn everyone against you which is far from the truth and I think if you really feel that way maybe in future you should think twice about commenting on any of his posts and keep contact to a minimum
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
OK sorry for putting you through really horrible emotional abuse, I wish you the best and I hope you are able to recover in time.

#FightThePower

It wasn't anywhere near horrible or even irritating. There is nothing to recover from because you didn't bring enough power to hurt me. It's been a good sparring session. Thank you for starting the flame war with the OP, I've enjoyed flexing my intellect and getting a cerebral workout.
 
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