Venting The Irony

[MourningFlower]

Something I've observed over the years when other people talk about CTB in regards to someone they knew is that they'll say things like "they took the cowards way out", "they took the easy way out" and the like. It's always struck me as rather ironic because, in order to actually succeed in CTB, it's one of the most courageous and difficult things anybody can do.

With the complete lack of N, SN being hard to come by or tricky to purchase in many parts of the world, not to mention assisted CTB clinics being incredibly picky with who they'll accept, that leaves us with firearms (if you can gain access to those), inert gas, hanging, drowning, jumping or some other painful, possibly gory method that isn't guaranteed.

So how exactly is that cowardly? Or easy? I'd love to hear anybody else's thoughts on this.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

Really? We need an entire forum for people to discuss safe methods to do, and they are hard in a way or another, be it obtaining the materials, complex procedure, or just planning. And there's still the fact that it may go wrong and make life even worse! Is it cowardly to do something knowing you can fail and make everything even harder?

Just let them chew on their ruminations. If they don't listen to us, we won't waste our time and energy trying to reach.

 

[ObsidianEnigma]

They likely think that suffering all the time is courageous (have courage to endure endless pain), whereas you consider the courage to stop it with a decisive act (have courage to act although it might hurt).

At least they seem to acknowledge that people suffer and ctb is sometimes the only way to end the suffering.

I feel it same as you do. I consider courge to be the ability to act in the face of pain, to do something even if it is frightening. I don't feel that bearing a neverending pain with no chance of relieve is courageous.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

have courage to endure endless pain

That's more resilience than courage, but sure, I get what you're saying.

At least they seem to acknowledge that people suffer and ctb is sometimes the only way to end the suffering.

Hmm yes and so they make it almost impossible unless THEY deem it that you're suffering enough. Actually, scratch that, when they deem it that you're suffering enough, they just tell you to suck it. ugh...well at least it makes for SaSu, a community that actually cares, for the most part.

 

[hedezev4]

I agree with you, but I can also understand the point of view that this is "the easy way out."
It's an incredibly difficult decision — probably the hardest one a person can make in their life.
But that doesn't mean it can't still be easier than living an entire life full of suffering, especially in old age.
Is it really so wrong to choose the easier path? I don't think so. Personally, I always choose the easier path.
And if someone says otherwise — ask them: when they do something, do they intentionally choose the slowest, least effective, worst method?
For example, when going to the store — do they take the longest, most dangerous and inefficient route, or do they pick the one that's pleasant to walk and gets them there without too much trouble?

 

[MourningFlower]

At least they seem to acknowledge that people suffer and ctb is sometimes the only way to end the susuffering.

This is another point I've thought about. How do we quantify suffering? Is it measurable?

Human beings are very complex, unique creatures, with different tolerances and definitions for pain and suffering. It's all very personal, and subjective.

To some degree, yes, I can understand people's aversion to want to discuss such things as CTB, it's uncomfortable and the idea of losing someone you love or care about can be frightening and downright devastating. The idea of having to CTB yourself someday can be a tough thought to navigate.

But wouldn't you rather know roughly when they're going to do it, and take some solace in the fact they're going out on their own terms, with comfort and dignity, than wait for the ravages of age or disease to do it for them? This is just my two cents on it all.

 

[LetMeOut67]

The fact that they use the words "way out" implies that they know this place is very much worth escaping from

 

[Forever Sleep]

I wonder if anyone who says that has actively contemplated killing themselves. As in- actually properly thought about how it would feel to jump off a bridge, point a gun at their head and pull the trigger, drink some random poison in the hopes it will work.

I do admire people who overcome adversity- don't get me wrong. I also see the value in trying to hold on for the sake of other people- I'm trying to do that.

There has to be a good enough reason to stay though. Otherwise, what's the point? Why suffer needlessly? Why is it 'brave' to endure pain when you don't see the reason?

Also, what does it say about them that they have no qualms trapping a person in pain here by denying them release? Emotionally shaming/ blackmailing them to stay because they don't want to experience grief? Who's the more cowardly or selfish person in that situation?

Besides, what do they think we're likely to achieve by staying alive? Not meaning to sound cruel but, the majority of us are simply wage slaves. Maybe not even that if illness prevents us from contributing. We may be socially valuable to others but again- are we? Very unhappy people change. We may not really be who they remember anymore.

I think they want to believe that us staying alive will ultimately benefit us (as well as them/ society) but, what are the chances of that happening? Plus, it's no good them assessing that our lives should be good enough for us- they're not having to live them!

Another argument would be- which is braver? Compliance or rebellion? Surely, it's rebellion. It's the harder route. You get a lot more opposition/ grief for it. Suicide is the ultimate rebellion. It takes guts- not only to get over biological SI but to defy every moral/ social code we've been ingrained with. The consequences of screwing it up are also severe. People aren't always the most supportive towards suicude survivors.

Plus, it's a lonely path and a lonely and potentially frightening/ painful death. Asides from here, some people won't have told anyone what they're going through for fear of being abandoned or locked up. There's also the very real risk of failing the attempt and permanently maiming ourselves. It's a gamble ultimately. Cowards don't gamble with such high stakes!

I really just wish pro-lifers would mind their own business. Fine, if they like life enough to keep following the rules. I only hope it stays that way for them. Things can change in an instant. Fine if they want to pat themselves on the back for overcoming dreadful things. Not all people can though. Some don't even want to. What's the point in trying to 'win' a game/ contest that you didn't sign up for in the first place? That you'd much rather just resign from?

We don't berate a person quiting a game of chess or, quiting a job because it's no longer bringing them pleasure and/ or they know they can't succeed. It's weird the way life is seen as compulsory. Ok, there are more solutions to try and fix life than in a job or a game but I imagine most people who suicide have already tried multiple ways to 'fix' their lives. I tend to believe that most people who suicide have struggled for a while. I don't really buy that all that many are impulsive.

Most people here respect pro-lifers own life choices without belittling them. Why can't they try to do the same? Why do they resort to shaming and guilt tripping?

 

[Pluto]

 

[FuneralCry]

I really understand and I wish it is straightforward to just be gone and I always suffer so much from existing in this horrific anti-suicide world where the suffering and torture of existing is seen as to force and prolong no matter what.

All I want is to peacefully cease existing in an guaranteed way, I just want to never suffer ever again and I see so much cruelty in how I cannot just have a death like never waking ever again with no risks of it going wrong and leading to way more unbearable suffering and torture as a result, to me existence really is an abomination and I always find it so painful to be trapped in this dreadful, torturous existence with no limit as to how much agony I can feel, I'll just always see existence as a mistake.

 

[MourningFlower]

I really understand and I wish it is straightforward to just be gone and I always suffer so much from existing in this horrific anti-suicide world where the suffering and torture of existing is seen as to force and prolong no matter what.

All I want is to peacefully cease existing in an guaranteed way, I just want to never suffer ever again and I see so much cruelty in how I cannot just have a death like never waking ever again with no risks of it going wrong and leading to way more unbearable suffering and torture as a result, to me existence really is an abomination and I always find it so painful to be trapped in this dreadful, torturous existence with no limit as to how much agony I can feel, I'll just always see existence as a mistake.

I understand where you're coming from with this. If we had a guaranteed, peaceful way to cease existence, there would be a lot less suffering. Maybe not for those who wish, for whatever reason, we would stay alive, but definitely for people like us.

 

[bl33ding_heart]

Something I've observed over the years when other people talk about CTB in regards to someone they knew is that they'll say things like "they took the cowards way out", "they took the easy way out" and the like. It's always struck me as rather ironic because, in order to actually succeed in CTB, it's one of the most courageous and difficult things anybody can do.

With the complete lack of N, SN being hard to come by or tricky to purchase in many parts of the world, not to mention assisted CTB clinics being incredibly picky with who they'll accept, that leaves us with firearms (if you can gain access to those), inert gas, hanging, drowning, jumping or some other painful, possibly gory method that isn't guaranteed.

So how exactly is that cowardly? Or easy? I'd love to hear anybody else's thoughts on this.

They consider anyone who doesn't wanna live through their problems a coward. Anti choice people really suck, no one should be expected to have to continue living if there's no hope of peace and happiness for them.

 

[MourningFlower]

They consider anyone who doesn't wanna live through their problems a coward. Anti choice people really suck, no one should be expected to have to continue living if there's no hope of peace and happiness for them.

Precisely. When an animal, such as a horse, dog or cat has something wrong with them, we are seen as cruel to keep them alive. But us humans? We're expected to quietly accept it.

 

[TAW122]

Yeah, I've noticed the dichotomy and irony (also hypocrisy if that counts as well) of pro-lifers and anti-choice, CTB preventionists. Sometimes part of me wonders that perhaps they are afraid of death so much that they just project their values of the 'sanctity of life' and just double down instead of questioning their own indoctrination or belief system.

 

[Zardoz]

What could possibly be harder to do than to end your very existence.

Carrying on is arguably the more cowardly path of least resistance.

 

[Tomie]

Jealousy