The concept of "white privilige" is outdated and harmfull for meaningful progress.

[Wayfaerer]

I'd love to see some people of color engage in this conversation and talk about their lived experiences, rather than the whitesplaining (including my own) that's going on about whether or not they have equal social privilege and opportunity.

I used to think that people who had this ideology were just fringe or being satirical but I see it's becoming more and more common it seems. Those soviet subversives who had penetrated our institutions during the Cold War have done a magnificent job, I must say.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I used to think that people who had this ideology were just fringe or being satirical but I see it's becoming more and more common it seems. Those soviet subversives who had penetrated our institutions during the Cold War have done a magnificent job, I must say.

I don't understand what you mean by ideology, especially as it applies to my comment in particular, nor what you mean about soviet subversives.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

I would tentatively hypothesize they have the same roots in imperialism, domination and colonialism, all stemming from senses of superiority and therefore entitlement to the property, land and bodies of non-white people.

Asian domination also exists, as evidenced by Chinese, Indian and Russian history, dominating other peoples sharing the same racial roots rather than other races. I include Russia in this as it's on the Asian continent. Arabs and Africans have also dominated and enslaved others who share their racial roots. Romans also enslaved Romans. Dominance stemming from perceived entitlement and superiority exists in many cultures, but white supremacy and domination over other races has become notably prevalent. One theory about how this happened is posited by Jared Diamond in Guns, Germs and Steel.

The descendants of all these people you have mentioned do not have a concept of Chinese guilt, African guilt etc., only whites do. I would talk about Anglo-American supremacy in this context, since the vast majority of whites come from many different countries that were never colonial superpowers who enslaved/dominated others. Imperialism is the last stage of development of a country and I find the desire for expansion and furthering of one's nation's interests natural.

 

[BipolarGuy]

@GoodPersonEffed @mahakali88

White privileged dates back from colonial times when white people were treated as slaves by the king who said that every black person had to have a white master even though no white person wanted to do it.
It was only when the communist party came to power in Germany that people realised that wealth and food could belong to everybody and white people could have running lessons and black people could have swimming lessons in the name of equality so that everybody had the exact same chance to achieve the highest grades at the end of their school exams.
What happened then was the the European Convention of Human Rights was formed so that everybody in America could look at Europe and know that not everywhere did the police treat black people and white people unequally as they do in the United American States.

 

[Wayfaerer]

Yes.

White women also get paid less than white men or non-white men when they have equal education and experience.

They don't work the same amount of hours. Think about it, if they could get away with hiring a certain class of people doing the same amount of work for less money, wouldn't they prioritize hiring them? That'd make better business sense.

 

[Lilacmoon]

Umm, Im super stupid so I probably don't have the right to speak, but I'm Japanese. Can I add a cent? If not that's okay I'll shut up.
I don't think white guilt is good, not to the extent that it's taken today. There may be privilege, particularly in the Americas, but I don't really believe that all whites should feel guilt or shamed for being white.

I dunno. Sin of the father, not the child. I wouldn't hold it against someone just because their grandfather might have been helped nuke Hiroshima.
No one should feel guilt for something out of their control.

Really, it does feel like a distraction. Divide and control so we don't notice the class war.

But I'm stupid so this is probably meaningless drabble, sorry for butting in.

 

[BipolarGuy]

Umm, Im super stupid so I probably don't have the right to speak, but I'm Japanese. Can I add a cent? If not that's okay I'll shut up.
I don't think white guilt is good, not to the extent that it's taken today. There may be privilege, particularly in the Americas, but I don't really believe that all whites should feel guilt or shamed for being white.

I dunno. Sin of the father, not the child. I wouldn't hold it against someone just because their grandfather might have been helped nuke Hiroshima.
No one should feel guilt for something out of their control.

Really, it does feel like a distraction. Divide and control so we don't notice the class war.

But I'm stupid so this is probably meaningless drabble, sorry for butting in.

This is obviously a very sensible response, and timed particularly well.

How can anybody argue that concepts such as "white guilt" make any kind of sense while also thinking that ideas such as "original sin" in the Bible are idiotic?

We should all be proud of who we are: our individuality should be celebrated.

 

[Wayfaerer]

I don't understand what you mean by ideology, especially as it applies to my comment in particular, nor what you mean about soviet subversives.

Neo-Marxism, and the soviets were experts in psychological warfare and propaganda and the KGB had spies everywhere in the US. What is the best way to beat an opponent? Destroying them from the inside, without firing a shot. They sought out and employed American communist sympathizers and put them in positions of power at universities and public schools. The far-leftism that we see today has been decades in the making. Fortunately, the USSR had collapsed but what they set in motion went beyond their grave.

We, being a liberal democracy, are vulnerable to subversion but that's the price we have to pay for freedom.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

@StateOfMind, while the thread has gone in the direction about arguing whether white privilege exists, I returned to the thread title and I wonder what you consider progress, and meaningful progress. I don't think that context has been addressed in the discussion, and I think the concept of white privilege is secondary, while the primary concept of (meaningful) progress which provides the context has been ignored. Can you define and delineate the context?

 

[DJJE]

From a UK perspective. Privileged is based on the wealth of your parents not the colour of your skin.

For various reasons, BAME kids are dispropotionately more likely to come from working class backgrounds.

Working class boys are the biggest underachievers in school by sex and most likely to get involved in crime as people prey on the disenfranchised.

White working class boys are the biggest underachievers by race, class, and sex. There seem to be groups and campaigns supporting almost every other group apart from them. If you come from generations of people who have been treated like shit, I can see why people are offend for being told they are privileged. Racist groups prey on those kids to boost their numbers.

The biggest barrier to success for black kids is poverty and crime. Simplistically saying "White privilege" lazy, fundermentally flawed, and only goes to further disenfranchise you black and white kids thus making the problem worse.

Privileged background is a more appropriate term.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

Neo-Marxism, and the soviets were experts in psychological warfare and propaganda and the KGB had spies everywhere in the US. What is the best way to beat an opponent? Destroying them from the inside, without firing a shot. They sought out and employed American communist sympathizers and put them in positions of power at universities and public schools. The far-leftism that we see today has been decades in the making. Fortunately, the USSR had collapsed but what they set in motion went beyond their grave.

We, being a liberal democracy, are vulnerable to subversion but that's the price we have to pay for freedom.

To be fair, the USA was a new home for Frankfurt school scholars who fled Nazi Germany and found employment on American universities.

 

[Wayfaerer]

To be fair, the USA was a new home for Frankfurt school scholars who fled Nazi Germany and found employment on American universities.

Ah yes, the Frankfurt School. That's important to note as well.

 

[StateOfMind]

While there are many crony capitalist, not all rich people are cronies especially in law abiding countries. Our fight should be against crony capitalism not against "rich people" .
Rich people provide essential products or services to the society and people in return pay them money proportional to the value of their service. It is very easy to lose sight of the usefulness of the product/service to the society. Amazon,Facebook,Tesla,Microsoft have made Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg , Elon Musk , Bill Gates into billionaires but the world would be a poorer place without the revolution these companies have brought. I would rather have them get billions of dollars then not have these products at all.

I'm not an expert in anglo sachson economics.
But I feel this is not not the way to go.
I'm not smart and I don't have a solution apart from maybe peace and love?
No!

 

[Nanami]

At times it's baffling to me to see people end up on here, talk about how someone made them fall into this miserable hole, yet see no problem spewing racist things and directly or indirectly contribute to others misery.

Please just stop being racist.

 

[StateOfMind]

At times it's baffling to me to see people end up on here, talk about how someone made them fall into this miserable hole, yet see no problem spewing racist things and directly or indirectly contribute to others misery.

Please just stop being racist.

Hang on.
You don't even have 500 comments.
How are you a mod?

If I remember correctly that was a requirement to become a new mod.
(And no I didn't apply)

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

At times it's baffling to me to see people end up on here, talk about how someone made them fall into this miserable hole, yet see no problem spewing racist things and directly or indirectly contribute to others misery.

Please just stop being racist.

Who said anything racist here?

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Neo-Marxism, and the soviets were experts in psychological warfare and propaganda and the KGB had spies everywhere in the US. What is the best way to beat an opponent? Destroying them from the inside, without firing a shot. They sought out and employed American communist sympathizers and put them in positions of power at universities and public schools. The far-leftism that we see today has been decades in the making. Fortunately, the USSR had collapsed but what they set in motion went beyond their grave.

We, being a liberal democracy, are vulnerable to subversion but that's the price we have to pay for freedom.

Thanks for answering half of my questions. I still don't understand how neo-marxism relates to my comment you quoted.

 

[Nanami]

Hang on.
You don't even have 500 comments.
How are you a mod?

If I remember correctly that was a requirement to become a new mod.
(And no I didn't apply)

Oops, must have missed that way back when I became a mod. At this rate, give me....a few more years and I maybe I'll get there. Thank you for your patience.

Who said anything racist here?

Denying privileges and downplaying the struggles of others is in my opinion a form of racism too.

 

[Wayfaerer]

Denying privileges and downplaying the struggles of others is in my opinion a form of racism too.

I love being told that I'm privileged despite being on a site about the topic of suicide. I can't imagine why that wouldn't go over well for some people.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I love being told that I'm privileged despite being on a site about the topic of suicide.

You're privileged to be able to access the site.

 

[StateOfMind]

Oops, must have missed that way back when I became a mod. At this rate, give me....a few more years and I maybe I'll get there. Thank you for your patience.

You just sound like a twat now.

 

[Nanami]

You just sound like a twat now.

How so?

 

[Wayfaerer]

You're privileged to be able to access the site.

That's 1st world privilege, not "white privilege."

 

[StateOfMind]

You're privileged to be able to access the site.

Heavily disagree. To a degree.
Freedom of information.
And it shouldn't be like this but it is.

How so?

Heavily disagree. To a degree.
Freedom of information.
And it shouldn't be like this but it is.

That would be my current perception of the vibes.

 

[waived]

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

That's 1st world privilege, not "white privilege."

And being suicidal happens everywhere, regardless of first or third world or skin color. Privilege has nothing to do with suicidality unless its root cause has to do with lack of privilege. Your comment in response to @Nanami had nothing to do with the topic under discussion and now you're acting like my response somehow does.

 

[StateOfMind]

How so?

I don't know.. the comment, it just sounded a little twatish.

 

[BipolarGuy]

Time for me to stop looking at this thread.

Good night everyone x

 

[Coffeandamug]

I think white privilige does exist but it's just a part of a much bigger picture. And I'd say class struggle is a larger description of sociological problems. Though I think class strugle and sociological problems do play a role in the matter of suicide they are not the only ones. Even if we had a revolution right now and everthing went well, there would still be a lot of "existencial problems" to be solved. Existence is a complex issue... even in the best of the utopias.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Oh dear, this thread got predictably dicey.

Umm, Im super stupid so I probably don't have the right to speak, but I'm Japanese. Can I add a cent? If not that's okay I'll shut up.
I don't think white guilt is good, not to the extent that it's taken today. There may be privilege, particularly in the Americas, but I don't really believe that all whites should feel guilt or shamed for being white.

I dunno. Sin of the father, not the child. I wouldn't hold it against someone just because their grandfather might have been helped nuke Hiroshima.
No one should feel guilt for something out of their control.

I'm ethnically Chinese/Taiwanese and I mostly feel the same. I don't deny the existence of privilege overall though. I am aware that for example I'm incredibly fortunate to have grown up in a mostly Asian community within the United States so I was never made to feel different or whatever like other minorities might have been in other parts of the country. At the same time though, I also don't think it's productive to be so hung up on race at least not in terms of punishing anyone simply because their ancestors happened to be more fortunate. I personally think the only way to truly move forward is to focus more on aiding anyone, regardless of race, who is disadvantaged. I don't believe this can happen if we take away from those with an advantage because then it just creates a cycle of revenge in a way...I also don't believe it can be achieved if the existence of privilege is denied entirely either though... That's just my two cents, I don't mean to step on any toes...