Discussion Suicide is Caused by a MENTAL DISEASE!!!!

[Dawn0071111]

I have been bingewatching suicide videos on Youtube about. Mostly the stories of family and freinds left behind because I want hear that perspective. However, I am disturbed by how many of the discussions are framed as: " Depression took the life of the one I loved."

"Mental Illness killed my loved one by suicide.."

This isn't to say that certain kinds of mental illnesses are the main root cause of a person wanting to take thier life, but the generalization really rubs me the wrong way. I think each suicide is unique but to sweep it all under the "depression" rug, just doesn't seem right.

I think what I am trying to say is that I believe that a person can make a rational decision to end ones life and it NOT be a product of so-called mental illness. It is just a societal bias? Is is just a framing to help the loved ones left behind cope? If you end up CTB, will it not be YOUR will, but really just that a mental illness took you over?

I dunno, I really value personal choice and autonomy, I don't think that all people who commit suicide are just "victims" of a disease, because that says if we could just cure or treat the disease we would no longer want to die........ I dunno. Maybe my depression wrote this post and therefore everything I wrote is moot.

What do yall think.????

 

[scorpiooo2]

I don't think mental illness is what makes people commit suicide because if that were the fact many other people would be dead. I do believe however that having a mental illness can contribute to someone committing suicide.

Having an illness does indeed make life more stressful on a person and cause even more mental pain. It can definitely drive someone to take their own life. But it may not be the main reason

People always want to blame someone or something other than themselves.

 

[Wayfaerer]

It's so the grieving family, friends or society as a whole can deflect blame from themselves by saying they died of a "disease."

 

[Darkhaven]

Well there is rational suicide and irrational suicide.
If a teenager is about to commit suicide because his/hers first girlfriend/boyfriend breaked up with him her that's an irrational suicide because that's an exageration of the importance of a first romantic relationship.
If someone is about to commit suicide because of a temporary depressive crisis that's irrational suicide because they aren't thinking clearly and are solely trying to get away from a minor problem that can be solved with time.
Now if someone has a long time history of mental health disorders like anxiety and depression, doesn't get better no matter how hard they try, or if someone is chronically ill and in pain and want to put an end to their suffering that's an irrational suicide by my book.
Now, i don't have the right to judge which suicides are aceptable and which are not.
All people should have the right to shut the button off and rest.

 

[cryptic_cynic]

I think much of what is called "mental illness" is really just different ways of thinking and behaving that isn't seen as normal by mainstream society.
Some people don't think life is worth living, and that is seen as wrong by most people, but that's just their belief.
It's similar to the way people who don't like or understand homosexuality have tried to label it a "mental illness."

 

[GreyMonkey]

Mental illness as far as I understand it, is actually the impact of trauma on a psyche.

Trauma creates maladaptations that manifest in non-functional ways of being.

Suicide is a response to overwhelming pain that cannot be processed.

 

[Oblivion Lover]

This is why I'm gonna make it clear in my note that "depression" was not what killed me. Hell, I don't even believe depression is a real disease as they say! Ever since I was diagnosed I doubted that I was really ill, to the point of refusing treatment. The "symptoms" the psychiatrist noticed are just part of my personality and I don't want them to change. The last thing I need is being remembered by other people as a "poor guy that lost the battle to a mental disorder" and that deserves the pity of others. Come on, I don't need anyone's pity! My decision is rational and understandable, but they don't want to see it, and my note is my last resort to convince them that I wasn't insane.
Oh, sorry, I just noticed this has become a rant and didn't answer your questions. I personally think that the belief that only a mental illness can make a person suicidal is rooted in stupidity, naivety and religious indoctrination. The people who say that can't understand how a person can honestly dislike life because it's too absurd to them and they never felt that way, so they blame it on something else, such as a disorder or attention seeking behavior. It's infuriating, but they don't know any better and it is society's fault. For people to understand that suicide can be a rational choice, society needs to stop brainwashing everyone into believing in absurd concepts such as that "life is a gift" or that "death is always bad".

 

[TowerUpright]

For me, ctb will be a choice not related to my depression. I've been in a seriously depressed state before. Now is not one of these times.

For me, I'm just tired. Tired of living a lie. Being severely miserable at home with little other course of action other than ctb'ing. Best course of action for all involved.

I'm sure my depression will be blamed. But I won't be around to refute.

I just want this to be over.

 

[Dawn0071111]

Mental illness as far as I understand it, is actually the impact of trauma on a psyche.

Trauma creates maladaptations that manifest in non-functional ways of being.

Suicide is a response to overwhelming pain that cannot be processed.

I agree with this take, because I feel like that most accurately describes my experince and how I am also coming to see others who are in immense suffering. I personally, If I had to have a label would say I am a "survivor of trauma" rather than "I have a mental illness..." thats just me. Even though I embraced PTSD, its clear that PTSD is something I have, but some of the others seem to denote a persons entire being. I think thats just awful personally. I would never say "I AM__________ (bi polar, bpd, a narcissirt, or whatever) I dunno. I know this is a fluid ground, lot of room for interpretations and [perspectives. My bias is that pain is pain, and while we may have maladaptive ways of dealing and coping, I just don't like the whole "mental illness " thing. No matter how many times people try and use the argument that the brain is just another organ that can get sick, like a kidney or liver..... Its still different.... imo.

 

[Lennox]

The vast majority of people associate suicide with mental illness, and this seems to be reinforced by state propaganda. Rational suicide is a foreign concept to most people.
I'm sure after I'm gone my suicide will be justified as a consequence of mental illness. Even though it isn't. I didn't come to this decision lightly, I know my life won't improve if I stay, and it's beyond my power to change what makes me suffer.

 

[Pistolero114]

I have been bingewatching suicide videos on Youtube about. Mostly the stories of family and freinds left behind because I want hear that perspective. However, I am disturbed by how many of the discussions are framed as: " Depression took the life of the one I loved."

"Mental Illness killed my loved one by suicide.."

This isn't to say that certain kinds of mental illnesses are the main root cause of a person wanting to take thier life, but the generalization really rubs me the wrong way. I think each suicide is unique but to sweep it all under the "depression" rug, just doesn't seem right.

I think what I am trying to say is that I believe that a person can make a rational decision to end ones life and it NOT be a product of so-called mental illness. It is just a societal bias? Is is just a framing to help the loved ones left behind cope? If you end up CTB, will it not be YOUR will, but really just that a mental illness took you over?

I dunno, I really value personal choice and autonomy, I don't think that all people who commit suicide are just "victims" of a disease, because that says if we could just cure or treat the disease we would no longer want to die........ I dunno. Maybe my depression wrote this post and therefore everything I wrote is moot.

What do yall think.????

I concur. If you weigh out pros and cons; look at it in a purely objective manner than the decision to ends one's own life can indeed be measured and suiciding actually is an option at the very least. "A no-win situation is the possibility every Commander faces" " How we deal with death is just as important as how we deal with life". You raise a valid point friend.

 

[deflagrat]

They usually say that because it's either propaganda or ignorance. They are not willing to accept that society it's flawed the way it currently is, because that means they would have to change it. Hopefully life gets better once we have more automation in society (for example, you could just buy a robot that cooks for you or have cheaper services).

 

[Dawn0071111]

I concur. If you weigh out pros and cons; look at it in a purely objective manner than the decision to ends one's own life can indeed be measured and suiciding actually is an option at the very least. "A no-win situation is the possibility every Commander faces" " How we deal with death is just as important as how we deal with life". You raise a valid point friend.

Thanks, however my own CBT, if I do it will be irrational to many because even at 40- I still have "my whole life ahead of me because 40 is when life really begins.." I am told.

 

[Blackjack]

I have been bingewatching suicide videos on Youtube about. Mostly the stories of family and freinds left behind because I want hear that perspective. However, I am disturbed by how many of the discussions are framed as: " Depression took the life of the one I loved."

"Mental Illness killed my loved one by suicide.."

This isn't to say that certain kinds of mental illnesses are the main root cause of a person wanting to take thier life, but the generalization really rubs me the wrong way. I think each suicide is unique but to sweep it all under the "depression" rug, just doesn't seem right.

I think what I am trying to say is that I believe that a person can make a rational decision to end ones life and it NOT be a product of so-called mental illness. It is just a societal bias? Is is just a framing to help the loved ones left behind cope? If you end up CTB, will it not be YOUR will, but really just that a mental illness took you over?

I dunno, I really value personal choice and autonomy, I don't think that all people who commit suicide are just "victims" of a disease, because that says if we could just cure or treat the disease we would no longer want to die........ I dunno. Maybe my depression wrote this post and therefore everything I wrote is moot.

What do yall think.????

AMEN! I posted about this very subject the other day.

 

[Dawn0071111]

AMEN! I posted about this very subject the other day.

LOL, so Im not the only one lol.... which one was yours?

 

[Blackjack]

LOL, so Im not the only one lol.... which one was yours?

Look for my rant entitled "Labels" from last Friday 8/23, can't remember where I posted it. Maybe search for it under my profile?

 

[k75]

I just don't know. I'm suicidal. I've been diagnosed with several mental illnesses. I was not suicidal before the traumas that caused my depression.

Medication in the past has gotten rid of the suicidal ideation, although the drugs stopped working and everything came back much worse than before.

When my depression lifts, I don't feel the bad stuff as much.

So is depression causing me to be suicidal or are the traumas I have to live with causing it or is it both? I just can't figure it out. But in the end, does it even really matter???

 

[Dawn0071111]

I just don't know. I'm suicidal. I've been diagnosed with several mental illnesses. I was not suicidal before the traumas that caused my depression.

Medication in the past has gotten rid of the suicidal ideation, although the drugs stopped working and everything came back much worse than before.

When my depression lifts, I don't feel the bad stuff as much.

So is depression causing me to be suicidal or are the traumas I have to live with causing it or is it both? I just can't figure it out. But in the end, does it even really matter???

From my understanding and experince the trauma comes first. The depression and everything else are responses, reactions, to and of the pshycological wound (trauma). The pain becomes so overwhelming that we see death as a suitable solution to a pshychic pain that is unrelenting and unbearable.

I also have discovered that trauma alters our bodys systems and gives rise to all sorts of vulnerabilities, such as digestion. So the physical componant cant be ignored. For instance, I have found that I can cure my depression with diet. Well, was it my diet that CAUSED my depression in the first place? No not necesarilly. Trauma, causes our body to wreak all kinds of havoc on our endocrine, hormones, digestion, sleep..... Everything can go haywire and its different for each individual. So trauma can break down the bodys defenses and normal way of fucntioning. For instance one of the consequcnes of trauma is our immune system takes a hit, our gut can get more permeable.... We are more suseptable to other illness food allergies.... so then all of a sudden we can make changes that seem unrelated to the emotions such as a diet change and begin to feel better..

Does it matter? Of course it does if you desire to feel better... and the method presented is one you feel is accesible and reasonable and you want to do it.
I just think do any of us want to stop being suicidal or do we just want to die or do we want to be happy?

 

[k75]

From my understanding and experince the trauma comes first. The depression and everything else are responses, reactions, to and of the pshycological wound (trauma). The pain becomes so overwhelming that we see death as a suitable solution to a pshychic pain that is unrelenting and unbearable.

I also have discovered that trauma alters our bodys systems and gives rise to all sorts of vulnerabilities, such as digestion. So the physical componant cant be ignored. For instance, I have found that I can cure my depression with diet. Well, was it my diet that CAUSED my depression in the first place? No not necesarilly. Trauma, causes our body to wreak all kinds of havoc on our endocrine, hormones, digestion, sleep..... Everything can go haywire and its different for each individual. So trauma can break down the bodys defenses and normal way of fucntioning. For instance one of the consequcnes of trauma is our immune system takes a hit, our gut can get more permeable.... We are more suseptable to other illness food allergies.... so then all of a sudden we can make changes that seem unrelated to the emotions such as a diet change and begin to feel better..

Does it matter? Of course it does if you desire to feel better... and the method presented is one you feel is accesible and reasonable and you want to do it.
I just think do any of us want to stop being suicidal or do we just want to die or do we want to be happy?

I would give anything to stop being suicidal. I really don't want to be here planning this. I want to want to live, but I can't and I don't.

My worst problems can't be fixed and I can't live with them anymore. Amputation, mutilation, chronic diseases... as well as the psychological problems. Near complete anhedonia. I'm haunted by my past. I have the constant fear of a cancer recurrence, and it feels like death looming over me all the time. Sometimes it's like I can't even breathe.

I honestly don't want to die. I have great friends, I have a nice family, I have an awesome cat. I have all the things, but my life ended 8 years ago. I just can't help it.

 

[Jean Améry]

If suicide is caused by so called mental illnesses like cancer causes death I'm interested to learn how that happens exactly. If they can't provide a plausible explanation (X causes Y because...) it's clearly unscientific nonsense and propaganda.

To say depression caused X's death through suicide is basically a rephrasing of the theory of demonic possession. It's also about as scientific.

Suicide is a voluntary action while cancer is a something that happens to you and is beyond your will. Major difference I would say.

 

[HGL91]

Every person I know that has died by suicide did it because of financial issues and stress, not mental health issues.

 

[GreyMonkey]

Every person I know that has died by suicide did it because of financial issues and stress, not mental health issues.

Yeah that makes sense. Perhaps the chronic urgency of no way out allows that.

And those with depression and trauma just think about it yet struggle to act.

However I've known people to suicide from bullying and social isolation too.

 

[HGL91]

Yeah that makes sense. Perhaps the chronic urgency of no way out allows that.

And those with depression and trauma just think about it yet struggle to act.

However I've known people to suicide from bullying and social isolation too.

Think you're right about the chronic urgency. I was really close to CTBing when I thought I was going to be homeless.

Oh yeah. Bullying and social isolation is another common factor for sure.

 

[Jean Améry]

Every person I know that has died by suicide did it because of financial issues and stress, not mental health issues.

The imminent danger of becoming poor and destitute, even homeless, seems to me like an excellent, indisputable reason to end it.

What bugs me most about the mental health propaganda re suicide is that it completely ignores the very real, excruciatingly painful problems people who die by their own hand have. As humans we are animals and as such programmed to live by thousands upon thousands of years of evolution so for that fundamental instinct to fail there must be an overwhelming amount of pain and horror.

Of course being chronically unhappy even if there are no external reasons is also a good reason. Those who think it's not should walk a mile in their shoes.

 

[Baskol1]

The imminent danger of becoming poor and destitute, even homeless, seems to me like an excellent, indisputable reason to end it.

What bugs me most about the mental health propaganda re suicide is that it completely ignores the very real, excruciatingly painful problems people who die by their own hand have. As humans we are animals and as such programmed to live by thousands upon thousands of years of evolution so for that fundamental instinct to fail there must be an overwhelming amount of pain and horror.

Of course being chronically unhappy even if there are no external reasons is also a good reason. Those who think it's not should walk a mile in their shoes.

The they say you should work hard you lazy bum!

 

[Pistolero114]

Thanks, however my own CBT, if I do it will be irrational to many because even at 40- I still have "my whole life ahead of me because 40 is when life really begins.." I am told.

Sounds like someone handing you a line of stuff. I can tell you from personal experience that sixty is not the new forty. I turned 60 in January. I got two texts from two family members and that was it. When you're old enough that your bday and what it means is forgotten by the bulk of who you call family and friends then it's probably time to go. They'll call me selfish; how could you do that to us; coward's way out.....blah blah blah blah blah. Where were they when you needed a voice and a shoulder? They say there's always tomorrow. No there isn't; not for many of us.

 

[liverpoolfan]

I have been bingewatching suicide videos on Youtube about. Mostly the stories of family and freinds left behind because I want hear that perspective. However, I am disturbed by how many of the discussions are framed as: " Depression took the life of the one I loved."

"Mental Illness killed my loved one by suicide.."

This isn't to say that certain kinds of mental illnesses are the main root cause of a person wanting to take thier life, but the generalization really rubs me the wrong way. I think each suicide is unique but to sweep it all under the "depression" rug, just doesn't seem right.

I think what I am trying to say is that I believe that a person can make a rational decision to end ones life and it NOT be a product of so-called mental illness. It is just a societal bias? Is is just a framing to help the loved ones left behind cope? If you end up CTB, will it not be YOUR will, but really just that a mental illness took you over?

I dunno, I really value personal choice and autonomy, I don't think that all people who commit suicide are just "victims" of a disease, because that says if we could just cure or treat the disease we would no longer want to die........ I dunno. Maybe my depression wrote this post and therefore everything I wrote is moot.

What do yall think.????

Whilst many suicides are the result of mental health issues and inability to cope with acute and/or chronic personal circumstances, it's very clear to me that, unless you are completely committed to the religious belief that taking your own life automatically sentences you to hell, suicide makes total sense for anyone of sound mind and body.
My reasoning for this argument is thus:

1. We're all going to die so not committing suicide does nothing but prolong the inevitable.

2. Nearly all involuntary deaths are at worst excruciating and terrifying - and at best inconvenient.

3. Choosing your own time, place and method is better than having your death imposed on you by other people or by circumstance. By choosing your own ending, you can say goodbye to everyone, tie up any loose ends (or not - it's your choice, remember), do whatever is on your bucket list, pick somewhere nice/comfortable/beautiful/peaceful as your last view of Earth then (if you're a nembutal type of person) go to sleep and not wake up or, if you're a death or glory person, strap on a wingsuit or an incorrectly packed parachute.


You're going to die anyway. Why not be in charge of it?

In my view, the real delusion is in not wanting to commit suicide. Just ignoring the inescapable fact that you *are* going to die and that, unless you take steps to ensure otherwise, that death is statistically unlikely to be a pleasant experience, is hardly a sign of robust mental health.

 

[262653]

Disease of an organism is primarily characterized for impairing and shutting down it's vital functions. So I think that a suicidal mind is diseased by definition.
Some might think that every disease has to be ridden off, that disease is inherently bad for it's carrier, that diseased have no right in refusing treatment. You know. We and our avid love for jumping into conclusions.

*Did I make a mistake? I feel like I did but I'm not seeing where... Feel free to make corrections.

 

[Dawn0071111]

Sounds like someone handing you a line of stuff. I can tell you from personal experience that sixty is not the new forty. I turned 60 in January. I got two texts from two family members and that was it. When you're old enough that your bday and what it means is forgotten by the bulk of who you call family and friends then it's probably time to go. They'll call me selfish; how could you do that to us; coward's way out.....blah blah blah blah blah. Where were they when you needed a voice and a shoulder? They say there's always tomorrow. No there isn't; not for many of us.

Yeah, I totally get that. Its just a reflection of their beliefs we live in a society that highly values perseverance endurance achievement and success. And of course these are great things but unfortunately due to are worshipping of the human spirit and character we don't have much room for empathy and compassion for those who really just can't make it. That is because the philosophy of the day is: "whether you can or can't it's true..." some of us choose to catch the bus because we feel that we have no other choice but we live in a society where the prevailing dominating believe is that we always have a choice. There's a guy on YouTube who gave the best example to refute this he liking suicide to holding onto a metal bar with both of your hands... at some point the strength in your arms is going to give out and you're going to let go and fall.... was it a choice that your muscles came out is it realistic to assume that some people have the emotional and mental strength to hold on forever? If we can expect a person to hold onto a metal bar with their arms fraternity or at least 4 weeks or years of the time why do we expect the same thing from a person's mind or spirit? I'm all about self-efficacy.... but there is more to life than that and I just wish there was more compassion empathy for those of us who happened to be weaker. ultimately I think it's a product of our culture's hatred of weakness which is what perpetuates a lot of violence in this world..... much love to you and B is good to yourself as you can while you're trying to figure out the best path for yourself.

 

[Pistolero114]

Yeah, I totally get that. Its just a reflection of their beliefs we live in a society that highly values perseverance endurance achievement and success. And of course these are great things but unfortunately due to are worshipping of the human spirit and character we don't have much room for empathy and compassion for those who really just can't make it. That is because the philosophy of the day is: "whether you can or can't it's true..." some of us choose to catch the bus because we feel that we have no other choice but we live in a society where the prevailing dominating believe is that we always have a choice. There's a guy on YouTube who gave the best example to refute this he liking suicide to holding onto a metal bar with both of your hands... at some point the strength in your arms is going to give out and you're going to let go and fall.... was it a choice that your muscles came out is it realistic to assume that some people have the emotional and mental strength to hold on forever? If we can expect a person to hold onto a metal bar with their arms fraternity or at least 4 weeks or years of the time why do we expect the same thing from a person's mind or spirit? I'm all about self-efficacy.... but there is more to life than that and I just wish there was more compassion empathy for those of us who happened to be weaker. ultimately I think it's a product of our culture's hatred of weakness which is what perpetuates a lot of violence in this world..... much love to you and B is good to yourself as you can while you're trying to figure out the best path for yourself.

Well said; and thank you