Suicide hotlines and other stupid ideas

[hans0solo]

as someone who is part of the critical mental health community, many previous comments resonate. the hotlines are not meant to deal with all comers. those who call are being given a chance to disengage and have some active listening from a mostly scripted person with the possibility of an 'active rescue' (police). Some people will find it 'just enough' to give them that space to avoid an impulise act. as someone who uses my sucidiality in my job, I have talked to people about our shared experiences. This is not what hotlines do. If you wanted someone like me, you'd called a 'warmline'. There you'd get people who deal with various mental illnesses rather than people who don't know bipolar mania from deep trauma. As people might be alluding to, many people are suicidal because of long standing issues in their life or in their immediate situation: poverty, abuse, trauma, feeling othered, dealing with the aftermath of rape/violence, dealing with the death of a loved one, a lifelong feeling of failure. Many of these require federal/state/county responses that go beyond a few minutes of empathy. More places for survivors of DV/IPV would help. Better labor laws. More unions. Higher wages. more affordable rents. Dealing with toxic masculinity. Free health care. A society that isn't sexist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, classist, ageist, ableist, lookist, fatphobic, whorephobic. Our society fails kids. They don't have many options to deal with toxic parents but some counseling or foster care. Woman stay in abusive situations because of lack of resources and the kids suffer. Woman are raped and never get any support, counseling and the perp goes unpunished. There is a useful place to get support but its still too new: https://alt2su-nsw.net/

 

[Bleak]

Whether they help some people or not, to me it just looks like a big "I don't care, take your problem somewhere where it doesn't bother the rest of us" when I see it plastered everywhere there might be talk of suicide. And then the people posting it never fail to jerk each other off about how compassionate they are.

 

[MyStateKilledMe]

Now take everything you just said and apply it to a 12 year old

12-year-old? Ha! I've been actively suicidal since I was fucking 6. All because my family treated me as nothing but a two-legged pet whose job it was to obey them without question and bring home good grades. Of course, a child's body is more fragile than an adult's. For all I know, I could have ____, and it'd killed me easily! But I knew it wasn't a 100% failsafe method, which meant I'd get punished REALLY badly for failing to die. So I just resigned myself to staying alive until I found a better way to CTB. Which I still haven't, and I'm 38 now. Fuck my life!

Now I just drink and smoke constantly, and eat crappy food. So even if that's not TECHNICALLY suicide, it'll shorten my life by as much as possible, from liver, lung, and/or heart damage. For a while, I hoped the Election Infection would kill me, but that wasn't in the cards. And the newfangled Omicron is basically a cold virus, that won't kill anyone but the most immunocompromised, and I'm not it.

 

[Toonloon]

I've read that too. He no doubt thought he was learning about human psychology, and thus honing his skills as a serial killer.

I always thought he fed off the emotional anguish in between kills myself. Like a true sexual sadist he got off on the pain of others sufferings. Now thats what I worry about calling in or seeking a new shrink lol

 

[Oblivion]

I think hotlines have their place, and I do think they help people. They've even helped me in the past. What I take issue with is the fact that they are promulgated as some sort of magic bullet to prevent any instance of suicide or suicidal suffering. People who have been suicidal over the long term would probably be better helped from long term counselling, or anything that might help with the types of issues that often make life intolerable: lack of food security/ housing/gainful employment, drug addiction, racism/discrimination... It's easier to set up suicide hotlines than it is to actually address any of these things, so maybe that's why no one seems to want to have the bigger conversation. :(

Exactly, for example how can they help a man whos in debt and his house would be confiscated soon and he's going to be homeless soon, how can they help a man who just got paralyzed, are they going to give that man his house back? are they gonna make the paralyzed man walk again? are they going to give enough money to live a life of travel and constant activities until i die without having to work a single fucking day?
No they won't, its just empty fucking words that they offer, maybe it works in some cases, in others it don't, and i hate anything that the pro-lifers do cause it doesn't include euthanasia.

 

[miserableforever]

I just fucking hate the concept of suicide hotlines, one time i wanted to see what are they about, they basically are parrots saying " i understand" "it must be hard" "i can't imagine what you're going through" ans that's it, they basically go along with anything you say, and it's fake, you know it's fucking fake and it feels fake, they're just doing their fucking job.

In a perfect world a suicide hotlines would be a number you call, they ask if you are sure you want to die, and send you an assasin to kill you swiftly and painlessly.

I was on the phone with them for an hour a few months ago. That was my second call.
The lady was very nice, I mean. She listened to me rambling and gave me some resources to turn to.
I don't have medical insurance though and that call was for the birds in the end.
Appreciated her being there until I calmed down but that's all it was. Maybe others have more luck with those referenced therapists.

I uses to frequently call suicide holiness when I was in Colleges. They were all really shit and made me feel a thousand time more inadequate.

But one day, I was in my college dorm and there were student outside in the hallway having a shit chat and laughing etc. I felt so lonely and pathetic and my social anxiety and agoraphobia was all over the roof. So I call the holine and a guy answers me. After I explain to him the situation and how I want to take 50 clonazepam pills, he tells me:

" Okay, I understand. Since you can't deal with yourself now, I'm going to take commands of your mind for a while. I'll be your mind for the next few hours and you have to do everything I say, you can leave everything to me".

then he tells me to connect my earphones and put my phone in my pocket. He give me small commands like: "drink water" "stretch your legs" "walk outside your room" "go to the library" " go to the third floor" etc he basically made me walk around buildings for 20mins. he was giving me an exposure therapy while making run and stretch from time to time.

I'll never forget this person and the feeling of relief I felt throughout the whole session. I just felt so safe because I felt understood. Someone finally understood that I just really needed a break from having to decide for everything myself and simple made me do things instead of talking nonsense a d giving me shit advices.

but yes, 99% of the time, suicide hotlines just make you feel more inadequate than anything.

Oh wow… must've been a nice break for you.

 

[Oblivion]

12-year-old? Ha! I've been actively suicidal since I was fucking 6. All because my family treated me as nothing but a two-legged pet whose job it was to obey them without question and bring home good grades. Of course, a child's body is more fragile than an adult's. For all I know, I could have ____, and it'd killed me easily! But I knew it wasn't a 100% failsafe method, which meant I'd get punished REALLY badly for failing to die. So I just resigned myself to staying alive until I found a better way to CTB. Which I still haven't, and I'm 38 now. Fuck my life!

Now I just drink and smoke constantly, and eat crappy food. So even if that's not TECHNICALLY suicide, it'll shorten my life by as much as possible, from liver, lung, and/or heart damage. For a while, I hoped the Election Infection would kill me, but that wasn't in the cards. And the newfangled Omicron is basically a cold virus, that won't kill anyone but the most immunocompromised, and I'm not it.

I tried to get myself to become alcoholic but
1- Can't afford it
2- on the 4th day i was extremely exhausted and shaking and everything was fucking awful.
I don't know how the fuck do people become addicted to alcohol.

my next step is get addicted to drugs but i have no fucking idea how to find drug dealers, I don't know anyone who uses, i went to this street famous for selling drugs, didnt find anyone selling.

 

[GentlyFading]

On a fundamental level l agree, there are various ways to address suicidality that l find icky but have benefitted others. My main gripe with these hotlines is how they are propelled as a panacea, l can personally understand perfectly well why being told to call a stranger to hear them utilise their active listening skills as a single broad-stroke remedy is offensive to many. I'm sure many operators are good people doing good things but the reality is many folk needed listening to long before that stage and for them it's often way too late to be told to simply ring a number and chat to a stranger and expect it to be much use.

I agree with this wholeheartedly! I'm especially bitter about funding distribution towards hotlines and the resource being toted as the sole remedy for suicidal folks. For example: the Trevor Project is the main choice most corporations and influencers choose to donate to during pride week. Yeah it helps kids. I still immensely dislike any donations going to it being seen as a gesture of support for queer and trans kids. They will still throw you to the wolves on a medical hold if you're too suicidal and then send you back to an abusive household once you get off. Hotlines can help in the moment but do not make your daily life worth living. I'm so fucking done with people with people with the money and resources to make the world more livable for children, care nothing to help and instead throw money (mmm good PR *and* a tax deduction) at a feel good fix.

Also I love trans lifeline to bits <3 they have a no active rescue policy, are peer driven, and don't have an age requirement for accessing their services.

We can hold the dialectic of "suicide hotlines help in many instances," and "suicide hotlines are very inadequate in many more." It's not that difficult folks ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Toonloon]

@miserableforever I dont insurance either. I tried calling the resources given to me but they are always duds and pointless. Either too far, no zoom services, or only allow for in patient treatment.

 

[Dragon's Heart]

Every time l see a suicide hotline plugged l remind myself that Ted fucking Bundy was a hotline operator at the time he commenced his killing spree.

And there's your assassin model of a hotline.

There are many incorrect assumptions about the suicidal people. Examples:

- Suicidal people don't want to die. They want help and/or attention. They want someone to listen to them
- Suicidal feeling is a temporary issue. They will feel better if we tell them: we understand, it must be hard, ...etc
- Suicidal people won't attempt if they don't have a plan or a tool (e.g. gun)
- Suicidal people won't talk/call if they truly wanted to kill themselves

That's why they don't do much to help. In a perfect world, the suicidal hotlines would ask for the reason and try to help based on the reason itself. There are common reasons to CTB:

- Mental illness
- Financial Crisis
- Loss of loved ones
- Act of violence (e.g. sexual assault)
- In case of kids/teenagers: bullying, abusive parents, ..etc

Government is not very effective in addressing the above solutions but can improve if they think suicide is serious and must be prevented (hint: they don't)

They also need to realize that depressed suicidal people may not be able to execute the needed helps and may very well need direct help at that moment. For instance, a person needs to make some phone calls or feel that they are not alone. Instead of the ambulance/police showing up, a well-trained social worker team may be able to address (at least) the immediate problem.

Not just the hotlines. All of my therapists in the past have immediately sent me to a hospital if I even dared mention the forbidden word "suicide".

Yeah, it's like you will now be imprisoned for thinking such things.

if just one person has bothered to tell 6 y/o me something like "I know what's going on, it's wrong for them to hurt you", I might not be the wreckage that I am today.

Yes, simple acknowledgment can be a tremendous thing.

 

[Lost Magic]

When my mother died, I really needed to talk as much as possible (and grief makes you more suicidal). I phoned the Samaritans(UK) relentlessly. And I have to be honest, at the time, it really did help. I mean of course you get robotic people who read off the script, but I had others who genuinely, listened and even tried to give advice. I guess it all comes down to personal experience. I don't phone them anymore, though, because I have made up my decision about wanting to die now. But I can't say that it was a waste of time back then because I truly just needed to vent. There is only so much that a person at the other end of a phone can do for you, and the rest as they say is down to us.

 

[Kristicide]

I only tried them once or twice and they threatened to send the police to my apt because I admitted I was gonna kill myself. Idk why I thought I could trust them with that info. Of course they would call the cops. Now I internalize everything, keep secrets to myself, pretend I'm fine so nobody tries to stop me from my goal.

 

[completely-done]

Those hotlines make me feel even more suicidal than I already feel.

 

[Dot]

Or that they accompany you with their words until the last moment, I would appreciate something like this

Slf usd 2 volntr on a sui lne. Th sui lne ws pro-chce - th callr wld d/ wht thy wntd 2 d/ & volntrs wre thre 2 hlp ppl tlk thrgh thr feelngs. Sm ppl hve st on phne wth callrs whlst thy hve c.t.b bt wll cll fr hlp immdtly if th callr chnges thr mnd

Ht-lnes r nt mannd b/ qualfd therpsts - jst ppl wh/ wn2 hlp othrs - on th ht-lne tht slf volntrd on w/ wre clld 'listnrs'

Thy r nt thre 2 fx n.e.thng - jst 2 gve sm1 wh/ in criss a spce 2 tlk thrgh hw thy fl whn thy wld nt othrwse hve tht

Slf hve also calld lnes fr hlp in th pst & hve hd tmes whn it hlpd & whn it ddnt. As voluntr hd calls whn hd hlpd sm1 & tmes whn thy hd nt benifttd frm th cll - slf jst dd bst tht cld

As othrs hve sd - thre shld b bettr strctrl provisns fr mtnl hlth issus bcse th ht-lnes cn only d/ s/ mch

1 thng tht ppl nt knw abt sui ht-lnes - or th 1 tht slf voluntrd on - = hw mny ppl cll up 2 mastrb8 ovr th phne whlst pretndng 2 b in criss

Slf wld estm8 tht 30% of clls tht slf answrd wre ppl fraudntly mastrb8tng whlst gas-lghtng slf whch ws actlly prtty traumtisng

Slf toler8d thse callrs s/ cld stll b thre fr ppl wh/ rlly needd it

Cn undrstnd y wld b angry @ th ht-lnes fr nt b-ing enuf bt thy r flld w/ ppl givng up thr tme 2 d/ th bst thy cn

 

[angiegirl30]

You are entitled to your opinion but they help. They helped my son who wouldn't be here right now if he hadn't called one. Ctb is a choice, I know. But I'm grateful that my son is still here. And so is he for that matter.

 

[myopybyproxy]

Slf usd 2 volntr on a sui lne. Th sui lne ws pro-chce - th callr wld d/ wht thy wntd 2 d/ & volntrs wre thre 2 hlp ppl tlk thrgh thr feelngs. Sm ppl hve st on phne wth callrs whlst thy hve c.t.b bt wll cll fr hlp immdtly if th callr chnges thr mnd

Ht-lnes r nt mannd b/ qualfd therpsts - jst ppl wh/ wn2 hlp othrs - on th ht-lne tht slf volntrd on w/ wre clld 'listnrs'

Thy r nt thre 2 fx n.e.thng - jst 2 gve sm1 wh/ in criss a spce 2 tlk thrgh hw thy fl whn thy wld nt othrwse hve tht

Slf hve also calld lnes fr hlp in th pst & hve hd tmes whn it hlpd & whn it ddnt. As voluntr hd calls whn hd hlpd sm1 & tmes whn thy hd nt benifttd frm th cll - slf jst dd bst tht cld

As othrs hve sd - thre shld b bettr strctrl provisns fr mtnl hlth issus bcse th ht-lnes cn only d/ s/ mch

1 thng tht ppl nt knw abt sui ht-lnes - or th 1 tht slf voluntrd on - = hw mny ppl cll up 2 mastrb8 ovr th phne whlst pretndng 2 b in criss

Slf wld estm8 tht 30% of clls tht slf answrd wre ppl fraudntly mastrb8tng whlst gas-lghtng slf whch ws actlly prtty traumtisng

Slf toler8d thse callrs s/ cld stll b thre fr ppl wh/ rlly needd it

Cn undrstnd y wld b angry @ th ht-lnes fr nt b-ing enuf bt thy r flld w/ ppl givng up thr tme 2 d/ th bst thy cn

which hotline is pro choice?

 

[Dot]

which hotline is pro choice?

Samrtns u.k

Ws desgnd 2 prvnt ctb bt whthr 2 ctb or nt = th callrs chce
Samrtns r jst thre 2 tlk it all thrgh

 

[Onthe29th]

Personally, I don't think the suicide hotline is the problem. I think the problem is that they hire people who know nothing about mental health and they expect you to feel like they care and that they understand but it's expected since we live in a capitalist country that's run by a bunch of hard heads

 

[hans0solo]

one alternative is a 'warm line' (https://warmline.org/) which are run by 'peer workers' who have lived experience of mental illness, so they have some understanding of what it feels like. They are not only for sui feelings but general check ins. Of course, you can also try to use burner phones or VOIP to fool 'geo location' services that are part of 'active rescue' attempts on regular hotlines.
we now have this neoliberal teletherapy industry that is like uber for therapy. It has limited use. I'm waiting to see how the bubble this creates turns out in 5 years.

 

[Oblivion]

which hotline is pro choice?

How do you understand what's he saying?

 

[myopybyproxy]

How do you understand what's he saying?

pretty sure @Dot uses she/her pronouns btw. there are studies on this btw most people can read things as long as the first and last letters are accurate, your brain puts the puzzle pieces together. look it up. for itsnace, hree is an emalpxe of waht i maen, yuo see how its esay egounh to raed. hraedr to do wehn udenr teh ilfuncee btu siltl dlbaoe.

txt spk is similar bro u ever do that lmao

 

[Pain In The Ass]

People use them as a way to make it seem like they 'helped', when really they just didn't have a meaningful solution at all - "I'm going to give you some phone numbers, OK?" OK!

 

[*Psyche*]

1 thng tht ppl nt knw abt sui ht-lnes - or th 1 tht slf voluntrd on - = hw mny ppl cll up 2 mastrb8 ovr th phne whlst pretndng 2 b in criss

Slf wld estm8 tht 30% of clls tht slf answrd wre ppl fraudntly mastrb8tng whlst gas-lghtng slf whch ws actlly prtty traumtisng

Slf toler8d thse callrs s/ cld stll b thre fr ppl wh/ rlly needd it

Having worked for one as well, I can relate. I never encountered a caller like this. However, I'd heard stories of volunteers who had.

Another issue was repeat abusive callers. These individuals would call repeatedly, sometimes several times in the same hour, and curse you out. Not only was it difficult to deal with, but it also consumed valuable time we could have been spending with someone in a crisis.

 

[Dot]

Having worked for one as well, I can relate. I never encountered a caller like this. However, I'd heard stories of volunteers who had.

Another issue was repeat abusive callers. These individuals would call repeatedly, sometimes several times in the same hour, and curse you out. Not only was it difficult to deal with, but it also consumed valuable time we could have been spending with someone in a crisis.

Intrstng
Nevr persnlly hd abusve callrs bt sexl callrs wre multple tmes pr shft

 

[nozomu]

Trans Lifeline is great if you're able to use it. They really helped me when I was in a bad spot. They're against nonconsensual emergency services (so they'll only call if you verbalize consent for it) and the call is by default anonymous. They also asked me how I could best be supported and what I want to happen out of the situation I was in and helped me come up with a plan.

 

[OhWellDerp321]

Well I mean suicide hotlines are there to do only one thing. Make you not suicide.
And they do that pretty well to achieve those goals. They will do everything in their power. Everything from lying to you, to calling the cops.

Now, do suicide hotlines care about you or help you solve your problems? Nope. It's the same with therapy. You listen to their positivity bullshit to make yourself feel better. Once that's done, you realize a few days later you are back in the same life because your circumstance haven't actually changed.

 

[PlathWannaBe]

I called a suicide hotline once when I was having a total anxiety melt down. I had absolutely no idea what to do.

I ended up reaching a guy who made me feel so much worse. I explained to him my massive anxiety, and I'll never forget- he basically said something along the lines of "I could be naked and holding a gun to my head, and there's not much else he could do".

I felt so alone, because I was reaching out for someone just to listen to me, and he reacted super unprofessionally and caused my anxiety and shame to spiral even more.

I hope other suicide hotline volunteers are more professional. He just made me feel way worse in an extremely vulnerable moment.

 

[wait.what]

Once that's done, you realize a few days later you are back in the same life because your circumstance haven't actually changed.

The gospel of therapy states that your circumstances are never the root cause of your misery. Instead, your problem is your attitude toward your circumstances. If you ask for evidence that this is true, all you get are inspirational anecdotes about people who are less miserable than you'd expect, given their luckless situations.

Most of the time the comparisons are spurious and more than a little asinine. What good does it do someone who has spent their life struggling against generational poverty, domestic abuse, and addiction to know that there's some "inspirational" person out there who meekly accepts a dreaded medical diagnosis?

Personally, I say beware of anyone who tries to soothe or shame you out of your instinctual anger and distaste for injustice. If they keep telling you that the world is fine and you're the problem, ask yourself which "problem" you represent, and who you're a problem for. Quite possibly, your insistence that the world ought to be changed is a problem for the privileged individual in the room's other chair, who seems to think everything is so great as it is.

 

[cosifantutti]

In my case I felt rather some discomfort

Or that they accompany you with their words until the last moment, I would appreciate something like this

In Britain the Samaritans will stay on the line as someone is dying. Although they want to reduce suicide they accept that people have the right to choose.

 

[dyingslowly]

Hahaha, I like the way you put it, yes they are literal scams and they do no help, like if someone who wants to kill themselves will go through the hassle of calling a stupid number to talk with a phone operator that acts like if you are asking for a refund from a company. They are of no use at all.