Discussion Suicide expected only when the person is silent about it?

[Breadbfra]

I know y'all didn't need another thread by me but here it is, since I decided to stop telling anyone how I feel.

So you've probably heard of "suicide is real only when the person is silent about it", or "if she wanted to kill herself maybe she wouldn't have talked about it". I've heard it even from suicide survivors, which is...tremendous, in my opinion.
I've spoken two months ago of how much I was hurting (the same day I bought SN, nobody knew obviously), and I've been told "X killed himself and he was quiet about that so I don't have to worry w/you".
But apart from my experience, I keep hearing this kind of thoughts coming from too many people. I even read "the Suicidal Mind" (E.Shneidman, very recommended), and there was this girl who immolated herself, and her friends said that she didn't give any signals. But later they discovered she had given not only one, but many, as buying a full tank of gasoline, giving back borrowed objects after years etc.
And what can we say about the news?
"Unknown reasons" "shocked family" etc etc.
I mean: do you really believe there's some kind of truth in "suicidal people are silent" or not? I mean, I'm alive because ctb'ing would mean giving a second suicide grave to cry on to my gf so that's making me back up a little, but if it wasn't for that I would have hung myself months before.

 

[Lost in a Dream]

I think the reason people think this way is because they are assuming that someone who says "I'm going to kill myself" is looking for attention, rather than actually being serious about it. Maybe in some cases this is true, but certainly not all of them. Unfortunately, the fact that some people ARE looking for attention makes everyone who is vocal about their suicidal feelings look bad in the eyes of people that aren't able to understand. It is also that same kind of thinking that causes people to keep silent about their thoughts - because they will likely be dismissed as attention-seeking or locked away in a psych ward.

In the end, what we are discussing is a claim made about suicidal people by non-suicidal people, so it's a BS statement in the first place. It's a stereotype.

 

[Breadbfra]

I think the reason people think this way is because they are assuming that someone who says "I'm going to kill myself" is looking for attention, rather than actually being serious about it. Maybe in some cases this is true, but certainly not all of them. Unfortunately, the fact that some people ARE looking for attention makes everyone who is vocal about their suicidal feelings look bad in the eyes of people that aren't able to understand. It is also that same kind of thinking that causes people to keep silent about their thoughts - because they will likely be dismissed as attention-seeking or locked away in a psych ward.

In the end, what we are discussing is a claim made about suicidal people by non-suicidal people, so it's a BS statement in the first place. It's a stereotype.

I wholeheartdly approve with everything you say, but saying "some people say it for attention", I mean it's normal that some people ask for attentions when they're sick? "A cry for help"?

 

[Georgii]

I only ever been vocal about my suicidal thoughts a few times in my life , it was perceived as a cry for attention (not help , just attention )and then brushed off .
Back then it was indeed just thoughts but I was desperate to just let them out , thinking it would help quiet them .
I don't know what I expected ,but people's reaction made me learn to mask myself .
It made me learn that these thoughts were not "normal" .
Looking back even if I wasn't vocal anymore , I still gave out signals that only now I realise were related to my suicidal tendencies.


I believe the "signals" do differ and are not always perceived by .. normal happy people who don't think of death on a daily basis .
While for us it maybe be a cry for help for them it's not something they consider suspect .

 

[tidalwxves]

I know y'all didn't need another thread by me but here it is, since I decided to stop telling anyone how I feel.

So you've probably heard of "suicide is real only when the person is silent about it", or "if she wanted to kill herself maybe she wouldn't have talked about it". I've heard it even from suicide survivors, which is...tremendous, in my opinion.
I've spoken two months ago of how much I was hurting (the same day I bought SN, nobody knew obviously), and I've been told "X killed himself and he was quiet about that so I don't have to worry w/you".
But apart from my experience, I keep hearing this kind of thoughts coming from too many people. I even read "the Suicidal Mind" (E.Shneidman, very recommended), and there was this girl who immolated herself, and her friends said that she didn't give any signals. But later they discovered she had given not only one, but many, as buying a full tank of gasoline, giving back borrowed objects after years etc.
And what can we say about the news?
"Unknown reasons" "shocked family" etc etc.
I mean: do you really believe there's some kind of truth in "suicidal people are silent" or not? I mean, I'm alive because ctb'ing would mean giving a second suicide grave to cry on to my gf so that's making me back up a little, but if it wasn't for that I would have hung myself months before.

You are right, but I think its complicated. I think sometimes suicidal people have trouble articulating the depth of their fear/pain and so someone in a healthier state of mind can't tell. Also a lot of people who are committed are very secretive about the plan because they don't want to be stopped. With that being said, there are always signs, it never comes totally out of the blue its just more subtle in some cases than others. I'm glad you have something that's helping you hang on right now and I hope things improve for you going forward. I don't know how much your girlfriend knows, but I think being vocal about how much you value her and that she helps you keep going even though you are in a dark place will help. Thanks for starting this conversation

 

[Lost in a Dream]

I wholeheartdly approve with everything you say, but saying "some people say it for attention", I mean it's normal that some people ask for attentions when they're sick? "A cry for help"?

When you put it that way it does make sense because I know some people do want help, but there are still some people who aren't suicidal at all that will say that they are to get what they want from someone else, even if that thing isn't actually helpful to them. It's really hard for a non-suicidal person to see the difference.

 

[Secrets1]

I think it's most natural to seek a happy life if possible. This is how we're built to behave. Cry for help at any time seems instinctual. If it's not possible or past that point suicide becomes a logical out.

The stereotype is B.S. in research for the impacts of my choice I've visited "sibling survivor" sites to see what's going on with these families. Especially interested in the ones who received signals and knew about longstanding suffering. Results are a mixed bag all over the place. Sometimes there are extreme warning signs while others none. Along those lines, families sometimes seems to accept it better because of this reason but are clearly still regretful and grieving.

 

[Breadbfra]

You are right, but I think its complicated. I think sometimes suicidal people have trouble articulating the depth of their fear/pain and so someone in a healthier state of mind can't tell. Also a lot of people who are committed are very secretive about the plan because they don't want to be stopped. With that being said, there are always signs, it never comes totally out of the blue its just more subtle in some cases than others. I'm glad you have something that's helping you hang on right now and I hope things improve for you going forward. I don't know how much your girlfriend knows, but I think being vocal about how much you value her and that she helps you keep going even though you are in a dark place will help. Thanks for starting this conversation

I'm honestly thinkin m

I think it's most natural to seek a happy life if possible. This is how we're built to behave. Cry for help at any time seems instinctual. If it's not possible or past that point suicide becomes a logical out.

The stereotype is B.S. in research for the impacts of my choice I've visited "sibling survivor" sites to see what's going on with these families. Especially interested in the ones who received signals and knew about longstanding suffering. Results are a mixed bag all over the place. Sometimes there are extreme warning signs while others none. Along those lines, families sometimes seems to accept it better because of this reason but are clearly still regretful and grieving.

Thanks for quoting this website, I'll give it a visit

 

[VIBRITANNIA]

let's say that someone's talking about killing themselves because they want attention, and not because they genuinely want to die.

why is wanting attention such a bad thing? shouldn't people be more concerned with the fact that people are saying such things to get attention?

and anyways, there's no surefire way to tell if someone's suicidal. some choose to be silent because if they aren't, their plans will be ruined. if someone verbalizes their plans or thoughts, that doesn't automatically mean they're not suicidal. maybe they feel as if people won't care.

assuming you know someone's true feelings just from speech is stupid. you'll never know how somebody truly feels unless you are that somebody. you can only speculate, so there's no telling who's "actually suicidal".

 

[Breadbfra]

let's say that someone's talking about killing themselves because they want attention, and not because they genuinely want to die.

why is wanting attention such a bad thing? shouldn't people be more concerned with the fact that people are saying such things to get attention?

and anyways, there's no surefire way to tell if someone's suicidal. some choose to be silent because if they aren't, their plans will be ruined. if someone verbalizes their plans or thoughts, that doesn't automatically mean they're not suicidal. maybe they feel as if people won't care.

assuming you know someone's true feelings just from speech is stupid. you'll never know how somebody truly feels unless you are that somebody. you can only speculate, so there's no telling who's "actually suicidal".

I agree 100% on this. If only everyone thought like this

 

[GoneGoneGone]

I know y'all didn't need another thread by me but here it is, since I decided to stop telling anyone how I feel.

So you've probably heard of "suicide is real only when the person is silent about it", or "if she wanted to kill herself maybe she wouldn't have talked about it". I've heard it even from suicide survivors, which is...tremendous, in my opinion.
I've spoken two months ago of how much I was hurting (the same day I bought SN, nobody knew obviously), and I've been told "X killed himself and he was quiet about that so I don't have to worry w/you".
But apart from my experience, I keep hearing this kind of thoughts coming from too many people. I even read "the Suicidal Mind" (E.Shneidman, very recommended), and there was this girl who immolated herself, and her friends said that she didn't give any signals. But later they discovered she had given not only one, but many, as buying a full tank of gasoline, giving back borrowed objects after years etc.
And what can we say about the news?
"Unknown reasons" "shocked family" etc etc.
I mean: do you really believe there's some kind of truth in "suicidal people are silent" or not? I mean, I'm alive because ctb'ing would mean giving a second suicide grave to cry on to my gf so that's making me back up a little, but if it wasn't for that I would have hung myself months before.

I honestly think that for some people, once they've assessed all their options and decide to ctb, they keep it quiet. I have been sloppy with my finances, I have sold expensive jewelry cause who cares, I have let my looks go... but nobody has shown concern.

On the other hand, there are families who know and are repeatedly told that their family member would do it, but then they still feign surprise at the news.. Because what are they supposed to say? "We knew but couldn't be bothered?"

 

[Secrets1]

I honestly think that for some people, once they've assessed all their options and decide to ctb, they keep it quiet. I have been sloppy with my finances, I have sold expensive jewelry cause who cares, I have let my looks go... but nobody has shown concern.

On the other hand, there are families who know and are repeatedly told that their family member would do it, but then they still feign surprise at the news.. Because what are they supposed to say? "We knew but couldn't be bothered?"

Agreed. Once final stages commence subtle cues will show up while overt ones subside.

Im sorry you feel like no one cares. That's awful. We do. Bet ppl you know do too. Lot of folks are overwhelmed by world events + own problems right now which makes it easy to miss what's happening around them.

Also think a lot of the time people just don't know how to react. I've had distinct discussions with my closest friends about a number of problems like this where I've had to shove it in front face to have discussion. Once it happens they say "gosh, we really don't know how to help... but let us know what we can do and we'll try". There's effort but also a disconnect on some level... maybe bc they can't truly relate with their idea of you as a person with suicide or other debilitating illness; and related to their own default methods of approaching/coping with life.

 

[foxdie]

Everyone is different, I think it all boils down to that. There is no scenerio that would apply universally to everyone for detecting a suicidal person. People who think this are misinformed or are lying to themselves.

 

[massiveblackhole]

quite a lot of people are really good at hiding their depression - they go to work, look after their families etc. they may feel they don't want to burden people with their problems but are secretly looking for a way out so when they do exit its a huge surprise to people but in hindsight the ones they left behind would probably realise there were clues the suicidal person left. also once a person decides to kill themselves it actually makes them feel better that they have a plan so even if they were openly depressed it may seem like they have recovered cos they have suddenly brightened up - but that's only cos they have found a way out - so once they execute the plan it can come as a shock "but they were doing so well".

 

[Ghost2211]

So if we say we want to die we are attention seeking or manipulating Then if we die we didn't try hard enough to get help, and they are shocked we did it.

If we say noting we didn't try at all to get help, and they would have been so supportive and helpful if we did. They're also completely shocked we suicide because we gave zero indicators we were depressed.

In the end it's damned if we do damned if we don't.

 

[Breadbfra]

So if we say we want to die we are attention seeking or manipulating Then if we die we didn't try hard enough to get help, and they are shocked we did it.

If we say noting we didn't try at all to get help, and they would have been so supportive and helpful if we did. They're also completely shocked we suicide because we gave zero indicators we were depressed.

In the end it's damned if we do damned if we don't.

Couldn't have explained it better

 

[esse_est_percipi]

In the end, what we are discussing is a claim made about suicidal people by non-suicidal people, so it's a BS statement in the first place. It's a stereotype.

yes exactly.
It's probably worse than a stereotype if the non-suicidal people have never even entertained any suicidal thoughts at any point of their lives.
It's like someone making claims about how elephants experience the world, what they're feeling when they go to elephant graveyards etc.
If someone does make such claims, we can be 100% certain it's bs, since it's impossible for anyone to experience the world from the perspective of an elephant, then somehow go back and report it.

 

[iftheworldwasending]

i JUST got into a fight with someone about this. i'm as suicidal as ever and someone really tried to tell me i wasn't because i was talking about it. thank you for posting this because it's really been bothering me. i completely disagree with that statement.

 

[freakchild]

I know y'all didn't need another thread by me but here it is, since I decided to stop telling anyone how I feel.

So you've probably heard of "suicide is real only when the person is silent about it", or "if she wanted to kill herself maybe she wouldn't have talked about it". I've heard it even from suicide survivors, which is...tremendous, in my opinion.
I've spoken two months ago of how much I was hurting (the same day I bought SN, nobody knew obviously), and I've been told "X killed himself and he was quiet about that so I don't have to worry w/you".
But apart from my experience, I keep hearing this kind of thoughts coming from too many people. I even read "the Suicidal Mind" (E.Shneidman, very recommended), and there was this girl who immolated herself, and her friends said that she didn't give any signals. But later they discovered she had given not only one, but many, as buying a full tank of gasoline, giving back borrowed objects after years etc.
And what can we say about the news?
"Unknown reasons" "shocked family" etc etc.
I mean: do you really believe there's some kind of truth in "suicidal people are silent" or not? I mean, I'm alive because ctb'ing would mean giving a second suicide grave to cry on to my gf so that's making me back up a little, but if it wasn't for that I would have hung myself months before.

Honestly, I "am silent" about it only for fear of being stopped. I think however you feel is valid.

 

[xaea13]

I wholeheartdly approve with everything you say, but saying "some people say it for attention", I mean it's normal that some people ask for attentions when they're sick? "A cry for help"?

IMO there's never a hard clear-cut difference between doing it for attention and doing it as a cry for help. There's a lot of grey area between completely faking it for attention and "I'm feeling really depressed and I need help" Some people do fake the extent of their pain but there's a core of truth to what they're saying.
Regardless, the stereotype of the silent ones being the most likely to CTB does seem based in truth. If you're serious about CTB, you wouldn't want to bring any attention towards it (which is why you come here).

 

[dss262]

I had a family member who had attempted a few times. It was for attention because it was half assed. Most of my life I kept ctb on the back burner taking note of what the most effective route is. Silence means isolation and letting those thoughts fester so I can see how a silent person is more likely to carry through with their plan. If people give the person reasons to hope, to just wait things out a little longer their more likely to put it off.

 

[TJuk]

When I made a serious attempt I had told mental health services for two weeks upto the attempt, and even spoke to the crisis team on the phone 2 hours before jumping (I was telling them where to find my body)

My friend who killed herself in 2013, she'd told samartins she was doing it, whilst in process of killing herself.

So I don't necessarily believe that those that speak about it are any less likely to kill themselves, than those who don't speak about it.

 

[Insomniac]

my short answer is, I think people who are truly suicidal are silent about it, yes.

source: I have been vocal about my suicidality for a long, a very long time and still haven't done it.

however, these days, I don't mention it at all to people around me. and I noticed it's because I actually intend on killing myself this time.