Discussion SS visibility and new rules - what do you guys think?

[GentlyFading]

Thank you @GentlyFading

Yes, it is that kind of 'buffer' I was talking about.

I am not against the admins' decision, I am only trying to understand why 'buffer' is not even an option.

You're right that's the issue. I've chalked it up to being understaffed or lacking experience. We only have RainandSadness right?

I've been thinking about how I would structure the forum. Maybe I'll make a post in the suggestions subforum? Here's what I have so far:

• Site functions
  • News and Announcements
  • Member Information Center
  • Forum Suggestions
• Sanctioned Suicide
  • Member Introductions
  • General Suicide Discussion*
  • Venting**
  • Suicide in Popular Culture
• Recovery (do we even use this? EDIT: just realized it's hidden for me whoops)
• Off-Topic
  • Off-Topic
  • Games

*I noticed that MPA gates their general discussion by having similar, but more specialized and lower traffic sub forums (anorexia discussion, bulimia discussion, etc) public. I don't know how I would do this on SS.
**this one will definitely be member gated from the get go in case we can't figure out how to gate GD.

I've been browsing the archive and some other subforums that might work: afterlife discussion, coming to terms with dying, illness or injury, mental illness. This is just spitballing though.

It is not reading about suicide methods that leads people to end their lives. It is what, in their lives, had lead them to first search, then study, then acquire means to end their lives ... a long process during which most, if not all, drop at least some sort of hints about how much they are hurting. To those around them in real life. More often then not to no avail. Once the act is completed, starting a campaign to ban the 'site(s) where methods are discussed' is much easier and more socially acceptable, than looking into a mirror.

I wholeheartedly agree with this!<3 Shutting down SS is a cop out from doing the real work to make the world a place people want to live in.

 

[wait.what]

This sucks. I understand why the admins did it, and maybe it was the right thing for them to do. It still sucks though.

It sucks because the vast majority of us have no access to legal, doctor-assisted euthanasia, and so the information in the methods megathreads here are all we have. It's not like it's anybody's first choice to drink a fairly common and unregulated chemical that could cause injury or death if ingested. That's not a pleasant way to go. For some of us, though, that is our best shot at peace and freedom from pain. If the NYT et al. succeed in suppressing detailed information about suicide methods, that will just mean that all we have access to is inaccurate or incomplete instructions on how to ctb. A botched suicide can be a horrible way to die, and it can be a worse thing to live after. I won't waste my time writing more than that, because you all already understand, and the torch and pitchfork crowd isn't interested in listening.

I hope that we find another, preferably better, way to get assistance to people who feel a need for agency in determining when and how to leave this world.

 

[sleepy adventure]

I think that the decision to make the forum visible again is a good one even if it means removing methods discussion. Personally, I read… sigh …. Lurked for months before joining and would never have joined otherwise.

That said, I'm a little devastated at the loss of methods discussion. I don't feel particularly confident in either of my available options. I found reading different threads addressing fears, failures, and logistical issues extremely comforting. It's been pointed out that it was often extremely repetitive, but with repetition comes a kind of familiarity.

I'd like to reiterate that I agree with the decision. I think that RainandSadness has had to make some very unpalatable decisions very rapidly. I'm deeply grateful that they are willing and capable of making them.

I simply feel the loss.

 

[D&D]

This sucks. I understand why the admins did it, and maybe it was the right thing for them to do. It still sucks though.

It sucks because the vast majority of us have no access to legal, doctor-assisted euthanasia, and so the information in the methods megathreads here are all we have. It's not like it's anybody's first choice to drink a fairly common and unregulated chemical that could cause injury or death if ingested. That's not a pleasant way to go. For some of us, though, that is our best shot at peace and freedom from pain. If the NYT et al. succeed in suppressing detailed information about suicide methods, that will just mean that all we have access to is inaccurate or incomplete instructions on how to ctb. A botched suicide can be a horrible way to die, and it can be a worse thing to live after. I won't waste my time writing more than that, because you all already understand, and the torch and pitchfork crowd isn't interested in listening.

I hope that we find another, preferably better, way to get assistance to people who feel a need for agency in determining when and how to leave this world.

Thank you @wait.what

I can't agree more - nothing worse than a botched suicide. And no - 'the torch and pitchfork' crowd isn't interested in listening in the slightest.

I too understand they why the admins did it, but hope that some way can be found because as you and many said - for the vast majority it was helpful to have it.

I think that the decision to make the forum visible again is a good one even if it means removing methods discussion. Personally, I read… sigh …. Lurked for months before joining and would never have joined otherwise.

That said, I'm a little devastated at the loss of methods discussion. I don't feel particularly confident in either of my available options. I found reading different threads addressing fears, failures, and logistical issues extremely comforting. It's been pointed out that it was often extremely repetitive, but with repetition comes a kind of familiarity.

I'd like to reiterate that I agree with the decision. I think that RainandSadness has had to make some very unpalatable decisions very rapidly. I'm deeply grateful that they are willing and capable of making them.

I simply feel the loss.

Thank you @sleepy adventure

I too 'lurked' before joining and can understand the need for it. That said, enabling 'members only' option would not necessarily render the whole forum invisible to 'lurkers', only certain content.

I agree that it is difficult for admins to make decisions under pressure.

I feel the loss too.

 

[Starryeyes]

How do we see this nyt stuff ? Can anyone pm me a link
To it?

 

[D&D]

How do we see this nyt stuff ? Can anyone pm me a link
To it?

Sure: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/12/09/us/where-the-despairing-log-on.html

 

[Starryeyes]

Sure: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/12/09/us/where-the-despairing-log-on.html

Oh I gotta pay. Not funding those idiots lol. Thank you tho

 

[D&D]

Oh I gotta pay. Not funding those idiots lol. Thank you tho

Sorry - I thought it is free to register just to read the article. Also, I am not completely sure but I think someone here posted the whole article in a thread. It might still be available via search function. Worth a try.

Found this: https://mentalhealthathome.org/2021/12/16/suicide-forum/

 

[Starryeyes]

Sorry - I thought it is free to register just to read the article. Also, I am not completely sure but I think someone here posted the whole article in a thread. It might still be available via search function. Worth a try.

Found this: https://mentalhealthathome.org/2021/12/16/suicide-forum/

That's actually a really good article thank you very much. I do hope this part

'they revealed these individuals' actual names, ages, and places of residence in the article'

I hope that's not true . I can see why admin are taking these steps now tbh.

 

[sleepy adventure]

That's actually a really good article thank you very much. I do hope this part

'they revealed these individuals' actual names, ages, and places of residence in the article'

I hope that's not true . I can see why admin are taking these steps now tbh.

How do we see this nyt stuff ? Can anyone pm me a link
To it?

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/ss-in-the-news-megathread.80563/unread

I'm not positive because I haven't tried the links, but I think this thread has some ways to read the NYT article free.

Sorry - I thought it is free to register just to read the article. Also, I am not completely sure but I think someone here posted the whole article in a thread. It might still be available via search function. Worth a try.

Found this: https://mentalhealthathome.org/2021/12/16/suicide-forum/

That "mentalhealthathome" article was wonderful. Thanks for posting it.

 

[wait.what]

I try to avoid as much media consumption as possible, because the racket of all the gibbering heads out there makes me crazier than usual. I think this is the first NYT article I've read in quite some time. Can anyone tell me if shit like this "log on to die" article is what is normal for NYT now? I expected a hit piece, but a subtle and clever one. I certainly expected to feel angry and wounded at the end. Instead I feel like I just watched that "God Warrior" clip from "Trading Spouses" again. If the God Warrior mom were also doxxing people. Yikes. This wasn't "The Grey Lady's" schtick five years ago.

Is there something we can do for Serge and Marquis?

 

[D&D]

I try to avoid as much media consumption as possible, because the racket of all the gibbering heads out there makes me crazier than usual. I think this is the first NYT article I've read in quite some time. Can anyone tell me if shit like this "log on to die" article is what is normal for NYT now? I expected a hit piece, but a subtle and clever one. I certainly expected to feel angry and wounded at the end. Instead I feel like I just watched that "God Warrior" clip from "Trading Spouses" again. If the God Warrior mom were also doxxing people. Yikes. This wasn't "The Grey Lady's" schtick five years ago.

Is there something we can do for Serge and Marquis?

I am not sure how 'normal' this type of article is for NYT now days, but I have written about it here and posted the extract of the letter I sent to NYT at the time: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/from-the-diary-of-a-recluse.79435/

I can't think of anything further we can do for Serge and Marquis, but perhaps someone else can.

 

[GentleJerk]

I will admit the last couple of days using the forum have felt very different, not necessarily in a good way. I hope it gets better.

 

[Dot]

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/ss-in-the-news-megathread.80563/unread

I'm not positive because I haven't tried the links, but I think this thread has some ways to read the NYT article free.


That "mentalhealthathome" article was wonderful. Thanks for posting it.

Yh - sm1 cntrl+C & cntrl+V th n.y.t artcle in2 th commnts.

 

[Zzzzz]

Are you fucking serious, dude?

I'm surprised that comment hasn't been moderated. I didn't know on a suicide and mental health forum it is apparently considered appropriate to turn people's fears and phobias into a joke for one's personal pleasure.

 

[GentleJerk]

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/dont-give-up-on-sasu-this-place-needs-you.80678/

 

[little helpers]

didn't read all the comments so I'm not sure if I'm saying something repetitive. thing is, we're looking at forum politics here and it's complex AF.

I used to hang around r/opiates. some random dude who isn't even a junkie just created that sub out of nowhere. we then made it home and it grew like crazy cuz opioid epidemic, yeah. duplicate questions is always a problem. some can be solved by "use the motherfucking searchbar", others can't. there's already a link to safe injection practices in the sidebar, but it's 80 pages and no desperate person's gonna sit with that at the last minute.

that's why I think method-talk is preciously valuable. and information gets fetched quicker that way. people can check on you in real time and tell you that if you have the slightest bit of ambivalence, at least don't go with gunshot. can the gun fit into your mouth, does your noose press on the neck right, have you taken an anti-ementic, all of that. cuz a failed attempt can mean something tremendously threatening. unwanted hospitalization, being traumatized by psych prison, worst possible is conservatorship. think Britney Spears.

now person might get into a place where they truly can't live for one more second, but be left with no help to live *and* no right to die.

I said I view SS as a harm reduction site in nature. and the first thing doing harm reduction requires, is patience. yeah I'm tired of the "will two 'perc 30's kill me" posts too. but here's a chance for you to get to talk to them, inform them they could be going down a rabbit hole, and direct them to all the resources. it's all human work. human work based upon human connection.

and you know, r/opiates is not unlike SS. all the "immorality" attacks, all the "fuck you junkies you a criminal" shit. haven't logged on to Reddit for a while now but I'm pretty sure it's all family-friendly by this time. but we ain't even breaking laws here and what is it to make it family-friendly? want a five y/o to learn about heroin, fentanyl, and suicide? I don't get it.

sometimes I think people fear too much. like mods on r/opiates said "no more dope porn" one day so we just all went to a separate sub to post what we scored. I honestly don't understand what they can do to us. but I also get reminded that they make up laws like they did trans people, and it's rational to think of the future.

anyways I don't see my vent getting anywhere by now but maybe it's helpful. Idk. and like, the alternate is already there which is not unlike what you proposed. so.

 

[Soulseer]

I completely understand why the admin(s?) have chosen to do this… but I think it'd be cool if the normal discussion forum was brought back, only for members to see. Even if it were to require one to be a member for x amount of time before they could access it.

These pro-lifers are so annoying. It's like the mosquitos that won't leave you alone. It's laughable how they want to censor all people whom are suffering. They want to force us to live in pain. They would NEVER legalize euthanasia either.

These pro-lifers actually make me want to die even more!!!

The power to choose to live or die is the most sacred right of all humans. The act of suicide is a rejection of one's current or future burden of pain. It is a protest against the current trappings of society and against those who have an interest in keeping the power structures as they are. Seen in this light, suicide censorship is a serious encroachment on human rights.

In short, the (pro-lifer) psychopaths who run the world want to keep you alive to run their torture slave machine jobs so they can live lives of luxury. This has been going on since the dawn of civilization

 

[waitingforrest]

I swear the NYT article is for clickbait. "Where the suicidal log on to die?" Lol. Maybe of the mental "professionals" stop involentary hospitalization every time I say the word suicide, then I might be willing to debate. (It's like their critical thinking shuts down and they don't want to lose their job)

I see a lot of people being stressed out by the new changes. Discussing methods was a way of coping. I'm fine with the new rules even if I disagree with them. There just needs to be a plan on how we can still discuss without being under fire.

Recently, the internet has been starting to censor more. I.e. youtube removing dislikes. I feel like the pro-lifers will go after r/suicidewatch next. I go on there once and a while and only recently I got spammed with religious nuts trying to exorcise me. There are no method discussions, but the next biggest group of people in the same boat as us.

(Just searched up news articles on the sub, and holy s**t. There is a article where a person analyzed thousands of comments in order to "help people". I don't think anyone wants their posts being analyzed, anonymous or not. It's a sub for support, not a sub for you to gather data for you thesis.)

The internet is breaking apart. Media outlets are making everyone divide and attack each other. Just my two cents, feel free to disagree.

 

[Soulseer]

100% we're being divided and distracted by the media. It keeps us from identifying the real enemy: the pychopath elites who run the world. They have driven our planet into ground by ignoring evermore frequent climate disasters and environmental catastrophes. The pandemic itself is an inevitable result of rising human population pressure. Then we have (at least in the US) stagnant wages, unaffordable cost of living, crippling loan debt, laughable healthcare insurance, racial tensions, crumbling democracy and a sneak peak into the rise of fascism triggered by the next crisis. But hey look at what Kim Kardashian thinks. And also, look at them brown people causing all the problems. And those liberuls and commies want to ruin our way of living./s

Normalizing suicide discussion is a noble protest against these pyschopath overlords in the media, religion, and government who need more slave muppet meatshields.

 

[little helpers]

update:

what I think as of now is, with any forums here and beyond, we gotta come up with a values statement and see if we're living up to it. practices can change. values don't. and we need to be damn sure of it and stick to that.

 

[flickout]

I don't see how they can be called pro-life when they don't take action on a whole string of things - good medical care, physical and mental; good education - we all can go on about things needed on this list...they just want control. Lousy hypocrites.