Sometimes I feel I don't have the right to want to die

[U. A.]

After joining this site and coming across some of the stories of other users, those who have passed as well as those who have managed to stick around for at least several years of being a member, I find an occasional feeling of self-reprimand for wanting to no longer be alive. Despite having been told by some such users that in their eyes, they think I've been through the ringer and have had as bad or worse a go (!) than they have. Despite having been validated by both my pretty decent GP and a former therapist.

I just read some of your stories and see you managing to still be here (though sometimes it's because something is an obstacle) - it makes me feel like a fraud, like things could absolutely be much worse and I should make the most of the theoretical potential I have because who knows; tomorrow I could be in some much worse situation. Maybe this is all me just trying to invalidate my suffering as a defense mechanism. Or trying to validate it as an...offense..? mechanism.

This is kind of a stupid post and I'm so tired despite all the sleeping, I don't even know why I'm making it. Not having left the house in two days and having had hardly any human interaction in as long are probably to blame. Ugh. Well, another night of going to bed hoping I don't wake up...though I have no reason to believe in any such merciful god. As a total aside, if anyone wanted to hook me up with a SN source, that'd be lovely

 

[Darkover]

you don't have the right to die if you did everyone and anyone would be leaving
the law is writen to prevent pepole from commiting sucidie

 

[Forever Sleep]

I do get where you're coming from. It is heart breaking reading some of the stories here. I'm in a situation similar to yours in some ways- my life isn't TERRIBLE. In fact, I fully expect if some of the people here were given my life- they would make it work... Something I would gladly do if it were possible- although I definitely don't want a swap- I just want out.

That said- it seems like this kind of statement assumes there is some kind of 'obligation' to live... Is there? For the religious people, I imagine so- 'life is a gift' (you can't return apparently). I guess it largely depends on who depends on you. For me, I don't feel like I can do it while my Dad is still alive (even though he's half the reason I'm here... ironic really). I feel 'obligated' to stay for him. Can't say I feel 'obligated' to the rest of the universe. The universe doesn't give a shit (in my opinion). Plus, I'm not some genius that's going to improve the world with some amazing invention.

Even jobs- where you sign a contract- you are permitted to change your mind and resign. None of us signed up for life. None of us gave our permission to come into this shit show. So WHY should we feel obliged to stay?

 

[Smart No More]

I think things can always be worse but it doesn't make your current discomfort any less real or valid. Everything is relative.

It's good to have these self analysing thoughts though and holding yourself to account is something I would whole heartedly encourage though, if you do so genuinely, it can be hard to strike a balance and you can over do it.

 

[Forever Sleep]

you don't have the right to die if you did everyone and anyone would be leaving
the law is writen to prevent pepole from commiting sucidie

In most countries, it is at least legal to commit suicide now. Kind of unbelievable that it wasn't at one time. Obviously it was used as a deterrent- still- kind of weird thinking they would be prosecuting a corpse if the attempt was successful.

I believe there are still 20 countries or more where it IS still illegal. So sorry for you if you reside in one of them. Can't imagine having that worry on top of everything else.

Agree that they make it as difficult as possible to do though- including restricting substances and making 'assisting' a suicide illegal in many places.

Still- I'm curious- do you really think you don't have the right to choose to die? I WANT to believe that my body and my life belong to me. To end if I want to.

 

[Pluto]

It's practically impossible to compare our situations as there are too many variables to account for.

Interesting to consider how the average person lived 100 or 500 years ago. Horrible diseases, no electricity, slavery, etc. (Yes, these things still happen in some parts of the world.) But maybe they felt loved more than us, or more of a sense of purpose. Hence, see previous paragraph.

That said, if you feel you are on the fence, I normally advise people to attempt recovery but of course have a plan B in case it all goes pear-shaped. It's not advisable to live long-term in a no-man's-land.

 

[Hystearical]

It's practically impossible to compare our situations as there are too many variables to account for.

Interesting to consider how the average person lived 100 or 500 years ago. Horrible diseases, no electricity, slavery, etc. (Yes, these things still happen in some parts of the world.) But maybe they felt loved more than us, or more of a sense of purpose. Hence, see previous paragraph.

That said, if you feel you are on the fence, I normally advise people to attempt recovery but of course have a plan B in case it all goes pear-shaped. It's not advisable to live long-term in a no-man's-land.

I do believe people are more prone to depression and anxiety nowadays than before. I have no way of testing that hypothesis but there are several reasons I believe that.

For one thing, when so much effort and attention has to be given to eking out a meager physical existence, I feel like there isn't much room for depression (as separate from unhappiness or misery) or anxiety to develop, at least to debilitating degrees. There was terrible inequality, but for the general masses there was more homogeneity. If everything around you has the same difficult living conditions, then you probably won't feel too bad about yours. Quite the opposite nowadays where there is a lot of competition and comparison and all the negative feelings that can stem from those things. People's paths in lifes were more often paved for them from birth. Nowadays people have much more freedom, and with freedom can come depression and anxiety.

Another reason is feel that people's horizons and perspectives were much more restricted. The status quo was much more willingly taken for granted and much less often questioned. The way things were more tended to be seen as the way they should be. Nowadays that is not the case and it is plain to see how the disparity between what is ideal and what actually is in reality can contribute to depression and anxiety. Of course people's world views are much different. As is generally known before they were more constrained by the spiritual and religious beliefs of their society. Now that is not the case at all. People more often nowadays live in an existential nightmare. They can contemplate and face the world and the universe in ways that prove to cause a lot of emotional distress. This is of course hardly a novel insight.

I also feel that senses of belonging and community were much stronger back then. A feeling of isolation and alienation can easily contribute to depression and anxiety.

Anyway, if you're so chronically unhappy for whatever reasons yhat you consistently long for death then by any standards you have to deal with a bad lot.

 

[FuneralCry]

The way that I see it suffering is not a competition. Somebody else will always have it worse but that doesn't mean that our wish to die is not valid. All suffering is unnecessary anyway. Nobody should feel as though they have to stay alive for whatever reason unless that is what they want.
Of course it would be ideal to just have the option to never wake again, but as we all know there is nothing fair about life. Regular sleep could never be good enough for me as long as the chance of waking is always there.

 

[U. A.]

The way that I see it suffering is not a competition. Somebody else will always have it worse but that doesn't mean that our wish to die is not valid. All suffering is unnecessary anyway. Nobody should feel as though they have to stay alive for whatever reason unless that is what they want.

I do get where you're coming from. It is heart breaking reading some of the stories here. I'm in a situation similar to yours in some ways- my life isn't TERRIBLE. In fact, I fully expect if some of the people here were given my life- they would make it work... Something I would gladly do if it were possible- although I definitely don't want a swap- I just want out.

I think things can always be worse but it doesn't make your current discomfort any less real or valid. Everything is relative.

It's good to have these self analysing thoughts though and holding yourself to account is something I would whole heartedly encourage though, if you do so genuinely, it can be hard to strike a balance and you can over do it.

Thank you. I know full well and sometimes have to remind myself of things like this - it of course goes both ways in that there are people who "seem" to have things even "better" than me or other others yet still ctb, and I think "man, I could live a happy existence in such a situation"...but in the end, if you're at the end of the line, you're at the end of the line.

As part of your comment I felt fit better here @Pluto, I have been/would love to attempt recovery but as the main things I need/know would help are irritatingly beyond my reach or sphere of influence, it's a lot of time bummin' around languishing and watching/feeling things worsen

It's practically impossible to compare our situations as there are too many variables to account for.

Interesting to consider how the average person lived 100 or 500 years ago. Horrible diseases, no electricity, slavery, etc. (Yes, these things still happen in some parts of the world.) But maybe they felt loved more than us, or more of a sense of purpose. Hence, see previous paragraph.

That said, if you feel you are on the fence, I normally advise people to attempt recovery but of course have a plan B in case it all goes pear-shaped. It's not advisable to live long-term in a no-man's-land.

I do believe people are more prone to depression and anxiety nowadays than before. I have no way of testing that hypothesis but there are several reasons I believe that.

For one thing, when so much effort and attention has to be given to eking out a meager physical existence, I feel like there isn't much room for depression (as separate from unhappiness or misery) or anxiety to develop, at least to debilitating degrees. There was terrible inequality, but for the general masses there was more homogeneity. If everything around you has the same difficult living conditions, then you probably won't feel too bad about yours. Quite the opposite nowadays where there is a lot of competition and comparison and all the negative feelings that can stem from those things. People's paths in lifes were more often paved for them from birth. Nowadays people have much more freedom, and with freedom can come depression and anxiety.

Another reason is feel that people's horizons and perspectives were much more restricted. The status quo was much more willingly taken for granted and much less often questioned. The way things were more tended to be seen as the way they should be. Nowadays that is not the case and it is plain to see how the disparity between what is ideal and what actually is in reality can contribute to depression and anxiety. Of course people's world views are much different. As is generally known before they were more constrained by the spiritual and religious beliefs of their society. Now that is not the case at all. People more often nowadays live in an existential nightmare. They can contemplate and face the world and the universe in ways that prove to cause a lot of emotional distress. This is of course hardly a novel insight.

I also feel that senses of belonging and community were much stronger back then. A feeling of isolation and alienation can easily contribute to depression and anxiety.

Anyway, if you're so chronically unhappy for whatever reasons yhat you consistently long for death then by any standards you have to deal with a bad lot.

This is something I started thinking about soon after joining here actually; when the basic requisites for living are always on the brink of not being met, and most people would have to work almost consistently just to be sure they didn't starve or get hypothermia or be eaten by something, I imagine there's just less brain space to go dark. You're living on survival instinct to a waaay heavier degree than those living above the poverty line in an industrialized nation today. And yes, also regularly just doing stuff that is fairly engaging and mostly living and working in a more communal way - both can take one out of one's own head. Then there's the religious/spiritual aspect which likely helped in contextualizing illness/suffering/death. We also didn't have all these hyper-artificial ways of keeping people alive when nature tried to call them back; beyond rest and simple plant medicine or procedures, there wasn't much available in the way of extending time lived!

 

[akirat9]

everyone have right to die. suicide is not a contest. is they already do that with euthanasia, only for terminally ill.

 

[Pluto]

Quite the opposite nowadays where there is a lot of competition and comparison and all the negative feelings that can stem from those things.

This is a particularly good point. There is some sort of relativism at play since people have proven to be quite content being poor so long as there is basic survival, with no jarring juxtaposition with others in the leisure class. The nature of modern day mass media and social media, putting billionaires, models and celebrities in the faces of the poor all day, is a recipe for much discontent.

The flip side is that nobody is forced to consume this soul-destroying content in the same way that our ancestors were forced to suffer without proper medicine (for example). And options like the organised religion, which gives people a sense of comfort due to not having to think for themselves, are still available for people upon request.

It is also worth noting that medical terminology such as anxiety or depression would probably be unlikely to have been in mainstream vocabulary in bygone centuries. Medical knowledge only left the dark ages during the 20th century, and still has some way to go. It's difficult not to conclude that we have no way of knowing how people felt and what life was like for previous generations.

As valid as your points are, I am careful not to romanticise the past even though many of us here would possibly have been better off overall back then.

 

[Hystearical]

This is a particularly good point. There is some sort of relativism at play since people have proven to be quite content being poor so long as there is basic survival, with no jarring juxtaposition with others in the leisure class. The nature of modern day mass media and social media, putting billionaires, models and celebrities in the faces of the poor all day, is a recipe for much discontent.

The flip side is that nobody is forced to consume this soul-destroying content in the same way that our ancestors were forced to suffer without proper medicine (for example). And options like the organised religion, which gives people a sense of comfort due to not having to think for themselves, are still available for people upon request.

It is also worth noting that medical terminology such as anxiety or depression would probably be unlikely to have been in mainstream vocabulary in bygone centuries. Medical knowledge only left the dark ages during the 20th century, and still has some way to go. It's difficult not to conclude that we have no way of knowing how people felt and what life was like for previous generations.

As valid as your points are, I am careful not to romanticise the past even though many of us here would possibly have been better off overall back then.

I agree about not romanticizing anything. I doubt I would have made it this in the past. I only did know because selective pressure has been rendered a moot factor in modern society, at least as far as basic survival goes.

Anyways, people who want to live are the absolute majority and that would have been true throughout the past no matter what people's material circumstances were.