Venting So insensitive to invalidate younger people who want to die.

[Valky]

Like young people can't suffer or have trauma, ptsd or anything else. It's the same as parents saying to their kids ,,you can't be depressed, only people on their 30s get depressed' or giving reasons like they have nothing to depressed about or saying that they are just being dramatic. It's all just about invalidating their feelings and that is not helping anyone. Even one of the first steps to recovery is admitting to yourself that you need help because something is actually wrong with your mental health. Invalidating someone's feelings is therefore doing more harm than good.

 

[PurpleParadigm]

FC, I don't think you realize how toxic you are being to this community. You are creating breeding grounds for conflict, calling out members, engaging in pointless back-and-forths, all just to indulge and validate your overly pessimistic worldview. This worldview does not allow for any other perspectives to exist, and it comes at the expense of a community of people who are truly hurt.

This is not a game, this is not TikTok; it is not a place to seek attention or popularity.

Absolutely no one here is targeting younger individuals simply because of their age. The recent threads you are referring to were actually a one-off discussion centered around @HopefulSleep, who seemed confused, anxious, and unsure. People understandably expressed concern about their young age, in addition to their proposed methods that seemed needlessly cruel (such as using tape on the mouth, tape instead of a tourniquet and largely untested blood choke method). This is not about age discrimination; we simply want a peaceful way out and hope the same for others. For most of us on this forum, suicide is not a fetish, and this community is not a toy for them, as it seems to be for you.

 

[GasMonkey]

young people definitely has all the right to die as long as it's a serious problem like cancer, disability, abusive environment.. etc

So you want to gatekeep suicide so it's only for those with "serious problems"?

 

[unnormal9]

So you want to gatekeep suicide so it's only for those with "serious problems"?

That's all it is.

FC, I don't think you realize how toxic you are being to this community

Have you met me already?

 

[HopefulSleep]

FC, I don't think you realize how toxic you are being to this community. You are creating breeding grounds for conflict, calling out members, engaging in pointless back-and-forths, all just to indulge and validate your overly pessimistic worldview. This worldview does not allow for any other perspectives to exist, and it comes at the expense of a community of people who are truly hurt.

This is not a game, this is not TikTok; it is not a place to seek attention or popularity.

Absolutely no one here is targeting younger individuals simply because of their age. The recent threads you are referring to were actually a one-off discussion centered around @HopefulSleep, who seemed confused, anxious, and unsure. People understandably expressed concern about their young age, in addition to their proposed methods that seemed needlessly cruel (such as using tape on the mouth, tape instead of a tourniquet and largely untested blood choke method). This is not about age discrimination; we simply want a peaceful way out and hope the same for others. For most of us on this forum, suicide is not a fetish, and this community is not a toy for them, as it seems to be for you.

It is probably true that I am immature, I am just sitting in front of my pc all the time, there is nothing else that I am capable of, I had to research how to travel by trains some weeks ago, I never move past from my fucking chair, I am unable to do most things, I am nothing, but I still want to die.
But thanks for preventing me to try to ctb with this dumb night night method, if I can't get other things partial hanging is better than that.
But I don't understand why you accuse people who think otherwise of having a suicide fetish?

 

[glitterypearls]

What're you gonna do to make it better then? Since you and others alike want so badly for it to not happen.
Better give them what they need otherwise and even then, they could absolutely still want to die.

I been suicidal since I was a kid, I still think everyone wait till they are 18 and out of the house. so many things play into a young person feeling this way, I'd have done so many things rushed when I was that age because your problems seems so big and permanent. best to wait till you are 18 and make the decision then because by then you can tell if those problems are temporary or permanent. I just don't see how someone under 18 CTBing is a good idea. there is huge percentage of them who attempt then regret it mid-way and ask for help. they didn't make up their mind. most of them do it as cry for help. they NEED professional help. which is another things I strongly believe in. therapy doesn't always work and I hate our mental health providers and their view of suicide but I believe everyone should go to get professional help before attempting. don't rush it. which is why anyone under 18 shouldn't attempt. just help them. point them to professionals and if by 18 they still feel the same then they are allowed to get help with CTBing.

 

[PurpleParadigm]

It is probably true that I am immature, I am just sitting in front of my pc all the time, there is nothing else that I am capable of, I had to research how to travel by trains some weeks ago, I never move past from my fucking chair, I am unable to do most things, I am nothing, but I still want to die.
But thanks for preventing me to try to ctb with this dumb night night method, if I can't get other things partial hanging is better than that.
But I don't understand why you accuse people who think otherwise of having a suicide fetish?

This hits home pretty hard actually. Been in a similar situation where getting out of the house, let alone riding a train seemed impossible. Just buying a ticket from a real person was terrifying (fancy ticket machines/tapping were rarer then).

I'm not accusing. I am stating that suicide is not a fetish for most of the people here. I hope so, anyway.

 

[unnormal9]

I been suicidal since I was a kid,

So have I.

I still think everyone wait till they are 18 and out of the house.

Think that's the magic potion?

so many things play into a young person feeling this way,

And adults, nonetheless.

I just don't see how someone under 18 CTBing is a good idea.

It doesn't matter either way, this the reality.

 

[HopefulSleep]

This hits home pretty hard actually. Been in a similar situation where getting out of the house, let alone riding a train seemed impossible. Just buying a ticket from a real person was terrifying (fancy ticket machines/tapping were rarer then).

I never traveled with a train alone, I am too incompetent for most things, I am even too dumb to properly kill myself.

I'm not accusing. I am stating that suicide is not a fetish for most of the people here. I hope so, anyway.

Sorry for misunderstanding you.

 

[glitterypearls]

So have I.



Think that's the magic potion?



And adults, nonetheless.



It doesn't matter either way, this the reality.

they should get PROFESSIONAL help first. which takes time. people shouldn't just make the decision to CTB without making some effort to try if things will get better especially for the ones who are under 18. CTBing is a big decision that shouldn't be taking lightly. I remember there was this girl who was 13. she was abused and didn't get any love which made her CTB on livestream. now imagine if she got professional help and grown up with a trusted person who gave her the love. she would be alive. she will struggle but she would have a chance at life. no one should make such decision this early in their life. I used to agree with you when I was under 18 but now I see that everyone have a point. you are too emotional and impulsive at this age which means you shouldn't make big decisions like that.

 

[leavingsoon99]

I agree. I remember wanting to ctb as far back as 8 years old. I guess because of the myth of hope and potential, people try to push the "you're way too young to feel that way" perspective on someone. Because youth, in this society, is seen as a clean slate. People give advice out of their own nostalgia and what they wish they would have done differently.
They're not being sensitive to the fact that life can kick us at an early age. It certainly kicked me. I guess that's why I don't engage in discussions with people about suicide. To most humans, life is so much better than death. No matter how messed up, corrupted, tormented, or dysfunctional, "hey, it's life. WE ALL have our ups and downs". I don't know if the love of life comes from just a fear of the unknown of death or some type of Stockholm Syndrome induced on us, but people just give an abstract, arbitrary value to life that, a lot of times, isn't warranted nor justified.

 

[unnormal9]

they should get PROFESSIONAL help first. which takes time. people shouldn't just make the decision to CTB without making some effort to try if things will get better especially for the ones who are under 18. CTBing is a big decision that shouldn't be taking lightly. I remember there was this girl who was 13. she was abused and didn't get any love which made her CTB on livestream. now imagine if she got professional help and grown up with a trusted person who gave her the love. she would be alive. she will struggle but she would have a chance at life. no one should make such decision this early in their life. I used to agree with you when I was under 18 but now I see that everyone have a point. you are too emotional and impulsive at this age which means you shouldn't make big decisions like that.

Who's to say they HAVEN'T already? At the end of the goddamn day, it's their decision, and it's not your decision to make—no matter what you think. No matter how much bullshit 'prevention', there will always be a way to suicide; that in a method not so graceful, or peaceful.
Accept the reality in front of you, or keep dreaming.
Impulsivity is the key to overcoming SI in a lot of cases, otherwise, the suffering continues, evermore.

 

[HopefulSleep]

It doesn't matter either way, this the reality.

I think most of the time it is not good to ctb under 20 if I think objectively.
Most people who are suicidal still probably have some things to live for and it can be a phase.
Besides that it is the same reason why it is not encouraged to experiment with drugs underage cause the brain isn't fully developed under 20.
Dependent on the situation I think suicide is sometimes the only option that makes sense, I think I am just a lost cause and this isn't a phase.
I think in some rare cases even for people under 18 it is the best option for them so kill themself, for example extreme sexual violence, it is proven that it ends their childish feelings completely and they then have extreme problems with the adult mindset that got forced to fast on them.

 

[unnormal9]

I think most of the time it is not good to ctb under 20 if I think objectively.
Most people who are suicidal still probably have some things to live for and it can be a phase.
Besides that it is the same reason why it is not encouraged to experiment with drugs underage cause the brain isn't fully developed under 20.
Dependent on the situation I think suicide is sometimes the only option that makes sense, I think I am just a lost cause and this isn't a phase.
I think in some rare cases even for people under 18 it is the best option for them so kill themself, for example extreme sexual violence, it is proven that it ends their childish feelings completely and they then have extreme problems with the adult mindset that got forced to fast on them.

Whether they, themselves, can see that or not is their decision, no one else's, it's a decision made by themselves.

 

[HopefulSleep]

Whether they, themselves, can see that or not is their decision, no one else's, it's a decision made by themselves.

Underaged people are not intelligent enough to decide that, that is why their parents choose most things for them anyway

 

[unnormal9]

Underaged people are not intelligent enough to decide that, that is why their parents choose most things for them anyway

18 is not underage. 16, whatever, 18, no.

 

[HopefulSleep]

18 is not underage. 16, whatever, 18, no.

Yea I phrased that weirdly, I meant mentally underaged, the brain isn't fully developed under 20 I thought but I searched online and the brain is fully developed at 25 for the most and I think that people should ctb before that so yea my argument of fully developed brain wasn't good but objectively I think 18 is a young age to ctb.

 

[unnormal9]

Yea I phrased that weirdly, I meant mentally underaged, the brain isn't fully developed under 20 I thought but I searched online and the brain is fully developed at 25 for the most and I think that people should ctb before that so yea my argument of fully developed brain wasn't good but objectively I think 18 is a young age to ctb.

Hell, it's not fully developed for some 35 year olds.

 

[SexyIncél]

CTBing is a big decision that shouldn't be taking lightly. I remember there was this girl who was 13. she was abused and didn't get any love which made her CTB on livestream.

Suicide's already criminalized for everyone, not just under 18. And still she committed suicide. US highschoolers have an 8.9% suicide attempt rate

Because it's criminalized, you can't talk about your suicide plans. Because you're planning a crime. Listeners will be complicit; therapists are de facto government spies; armed men will throw you in a locked room. Where many get even more traumatized

The beatings will continue until morale improves

I don't know about others, but SaSu people solved my problem, days before I would've ctb'd. So I'm still alive. That 13 year old girl -- maybe she would've survived if there were legal places for people like her to speak their minds, extra safe from predators and government?

Spoiler: Boring blather about child development

That said, children are a complex topic. If I understand child development, children naturally want boundaries. So it's justified to impose authority on them, decreasing with time. Otherwise they get psych problems. Children seem to be little authoritarians. They want authority and impose it on others too

Imagine we're responsible for an 8 year old, who comes up to us and says they're suicidal. We do the usual problem-solving: investigate the prob, find possible solutions, etc. Then do tradeoff-analysis on solutions: advantages and disadvantages. Consider if we can combine solutions; exploit synergies and dampen antagonisms

What's the goal? Reduce current and future suffering

Could euthanasia work? Sure, if they incurably feel like their skin's on fire. But maybe try inducing coma first, for time to find alternatives

But if the little brat wants to die because we won't give them a creditcard for Pornhub... maybe give them up for adoption so I'm not a Darwin Award footnote

FC, I don't think you realize how toxic you are being to this community. You are creating breeding grounds for conflict, calling out members, engaging in pointless back-and-forths, all just to indulge and validate your overly pessimistic worldview. This worldview does not allow for any other perspectives to exist, and it comes at the expense of a community of people who are truly hurt.

Let's not infight? Promortalists like her have rare, valuable perspectives. Taught me a lot

 

[PurpleParadigm]

Yea I phrased that weirdly, I meant mentally underaged, the brain isn't fully developed under 20 I thought but I searched online and the brain is fully developed at 25 for the most and I think that people should ctb before that so yea my argument of fully developed brain wasn't good but objectively I think 18 is a young age to ctb.

The upper numbers I've seen were anywhere between mid-20s to 30s. In addition I imagine that for different people there will be some considerable variance around these ages as we all develop differently. Moreover, you have the building of neural pathways through training various skills, forming memories, and experiencing new situations. So just because you recently turned 18 or 25 or whatever age, it may or may not hold significant meaning in the context of certain things. The younger someone is, the more likely they are to be missing something due to their age; however, it also means they may have more time to course-correct out of certain situations.

I am a late bloomer; many factors have contributed to that. One perk of the 'dumb and useless' phase is that it's so easy to find immense satisfaction even in the simplest achievements, like cooking for yourself instead of gorging on instant ramen, using public transport without shitting bricks from anxiety or *gasp* talking to people irl.

Let's not infight? Promortalists like her have rare, valuable perspectives. Taught me a lot

I appreciate the sentiment and agree with it, but don't you think it's a bit late for that? The first punch has already been thrown with this thread.

 

[HopefulSleep]

I am a late bloomer; many factors have contributed to that. One perk of the 'dumb and useless' phase is that it's so easy to find immense satisfaction even in the simplest achievements, like cooking for yourself instead of gorging on instant ramen, using public transport without shitting bricks from anxiety or *gasp* talking to people irl.

Cooking and eating tasting food feels good but disappointing, it just doesn't give me much anymore.
Now there are ticket machines but I would still be scared to ask others where the way to the train is.
I don't like to talk to people irl, I can't block them if they do something that I don't like.

 

[Tuurngait]

I am a late bloomer; many factors have contributed to that. One perk of the 'dumb and useless' phase is that it's so easy to find immense satisfaction even in the simplest achievements, like cooking for yourself instead of gorging on instant ramen, using public transport without shitting bricks from anxiety or *gasp* talking to people irl.

I think this is actually a great point. As a teenager I really struggled doing literally basic things. Going outside was terrifying, talking to people was terrifying, getting on a bus - terrifying. Literally everything was terrifying; I'd puke constantly out of a pure bodily reaction of anxiety.

Now, I'm certainly not fearless, but I can live my life. I can do all of the above.
I think the extreme anxieties I had before, which I "trained" out of myself with simple exposure therapy, were a big reason as to why I was constantly suicidal. If I were able to kill myself because I felt that useless as a teenager, then I wouldn't be here today. I wouldn't have had a chance to actually "get better" (for lack of a better phrase...we don't really "get better," more learn to cope). Not everyone can ultimately learn to cope, but I don't think robbing teenagers and children of their ability to try by allowing assisted suicide is at all valid.

Now, I get suicidal thoughts, but it isn't a constant ringing in my head, more a fleeting thought every so often.

 

[PurpleParadigm]

Cooking and eating tasting food feels good but disappointing, it just doesn't give me much anymore.
Now there are ticket machines but I would still be scared to ask others where the way to the train is.
I don't like to talk to people irl, I can't block them if they do something that I don't like.

Yeah but irl you can punch them. Can't punch people online.

Nah, I'm kidding, don't go randomly punching people irl. With that out of the way, if that's any consolation at all, people generally try to help if they see someone in distress, and in fact are likely to be just as anxious as you are. Many will leave the interaction thinking if they did/explained something stupidly, or if you understood them or went the wrong way and are now blaming them for being rubbish at giving instructions.

Since this thread is about age, let me also point out that you mellow out with age, really feel it from the tail end of 20s from experience. There is a reason why old people come off as giving zero fucks about anything.

 

[Lullaby]

Not really contributing to the topic but this reminds me of an episode I watched of an anime, I think Paranoia Agent? Ironically this episode has nothing to do with the main plot Three people from online meet up for a suicide pact; an old man, a young guy, but the third turns out to be a little girl.

They end spending most of the episode trying to run away from her, and when they can't, they try to go through methods while also trying to sabotage hers.

It's actually really funny and I think some people here would enjoy it. I think the episode is called Happy family planning.

 

[HopefulSleep]

people generally try to help if they see someone in distress

Never happened irl for me whenever I got hurt by others

 

[Twiceler]

This is so true. Young people's attention is much easier to get/divert, relatively to mature people. This is why the adults hold them stronger than others to keep them alive.

 

[LostinCyberspace]

Kids are unbelievably impressionable. They are like a hybrid of a sponge and a parrot where they absorb what they hear/see around them, and then naively repeat the behavior to other kids.

I've worked quite a bit with children, and it wasn't unusual to hear 8 year olds literally talking politics (specifically Trump). When I would eavesdrop, they very clearly didn't understand any of the words/phrases they were saying, and it was incredibly apparent that they were just repeating the stuff they heard their parents say at dinner the night before. Same thing goes for kids that admire their older siblings. They often mimic what their "cool" older sibling does.

Also I don't know which kids you hangout with, but it is not normal (nor common) behavior for kids to go "running around talking about wanting to die". Whichever kids you are referring to that do this are outliers and not a good example to start making generalizations. And even if that was hypothetically the case, it'd be more of a reflection on our culture (aka the kids environment) rather than anything "instinct" as you put it.

Maybe you're right. I think today's culture is devoid of meaning and doesn't stand for anything anymore. I wonder if when experts say that fewer people in past generations had depression was just because they didn't report it they're telling a lie to push an agenda. We're told we live in the best possible time to be alive and yet so many people are miserable, but in past generations people were usually given purpose and meaning through their work. I don't believe this society is worth working/fighting for.

 

[Death is my goal]

So you want to gatekeep suicide so it's only for those with "serious problems"?

for minors yes,
you want them kill themselves for stupid reasons such as "my gf left me"?

 

[unnormal9]

Yeah but irl you can punch them. Can't punch people online.

Nah, I'm kidding, don't go randomly punching people irl. With that out of the way, if that's any consolation at all, people generally try to help if they see someone in distress, and in fact are likely to be just as anxious as you are. Many will leave the interaction thinking if they did/explained something stupidly, or if you understood them or went the wrong way and are now blaming them for being rubbish at giving instructions.

Since this thread is about age, let me also point out that you mellow out with age, really feel it from the tail end of 20s from experience. There is a reason why old people come off as giving zero fucks about anything.

Hrm. End up with a wedged sword through your gut.

you want them kill themselves for stupid reasons such as "my gf left me"?

Think your reasons are any better, any less stupid than the next? Fuck that gate keeping bullshit.
They're guys who are suicidal 'cause of their dick sizes, everyone has their reasons.

This is so true. Young people's attention is much easier to get/divert, relatively to mature people. This is why the adults hold them stronger than others to keep them alive.

Bullshit, especially in this day and age. Can't get them to so much as look up from their phones.

 

[Unwr!tten]

Bullshit, especially in this day and age. Can't get them to so much as look up from their phones.

Yes, however. it's what they see online that influences them. Think about all the stupid challenges there have been over the last decade and a half, who primarily took part? Young people. Children cannot make well rounded decisions, because they cannot process what the result really means at a young age.

Now, that's not to say we should just ignore young people, instead, we should actually be prioritizing them in giving them resources. Maybe a fifteen year old is suicidal because he's being bullied at school for certain things. There are options that could help him. The adults around him could help him fix the things that kids are bullying him over. If he's Poor, help improve his home life, if he's behind, give him extra time to help him get ahead, etc... and if nothing else works, you help him move to a new school, help him go to online school or a mix, while helping him find other kids he could be friends with.

Kids do not get to choose their lives, their parents, their situations, their schools, etc… everything is a consequence of their parents, so maybe if we gave teenagers more freedoms and stopped putting them into a box, they'd be happier and then, once they're an adult, if they're still miserable, then they can decide what to do.

In short, my point is that while we as adults can exhaust all of our options before deciding to catch the bus, children legally, physically, mentally, emotionally, etc… cannot exhaust all their options and this really is why we should wait.