SN shelf life.

[BPD Barbie]

How long can I leave the SN mixture before it goes funky? For example if I made it tonight in prep for tomorrow would it still be as potent? Could I leave it for a few days even? Have tried looking for information on this but can't find any. Many thanks for any replies.

 

[k75]

I don't know where I got this idea from so I can't give you a source, but I believe you have to use it pretty soon after it's mixed. Could be wrong... There's not much info.

Why do you want to pre-mix it?

 

[134340]

I've also heard that you should drink the mixture soon after making it, but that may have just been something someone on the site mentioned without a source

 

[Saddad]

I believe air changes it chemical structure to nitrate.

Not sure if this is the case if dissolved ?

Oxygen in water could maybe affect it?

 

[TimeToBiteTheDust]

You should drink it right after mixing it.

 

[Quarky00]

I found no evidence SN water solution goes bad.

At least not in hours. SN ions are in equilibrium. Stable solution. SN does not react with oxygen atoms in water, its ions are within water molecules. Potency reduced over days (like salt water get "dirty"). It has thermal properties, don't cool/heat.

NaNO2 = Na+ , NO2--

 

[thelastchicken]

Here's what I found about it on here.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...m-testing-kit-rough-version.18188/post-384753

The post seems to contain a mistake, it states that's 1 gram SN per 1 litre water, but I think they meant 1 milligram SN. The poster also didn't say how much time passed between the first and the second tests, but it's on the same day.

 

[Quarky00]

I think they meant 1 milligram SN

Concentration tested is 0.001% -- we use 40% :) Test is irrelevant. 40,000 more is so diluted, any test useless..

* put 1 spoon salt in a bath or in a glass and check saltiness ..

 

[thelastchicken]

Yep, the precision here is under question mark. Unfortunately I haven't stumbled on ways to test larger concentrations...

I personally don't need any proof about lowering potency, I'll just assume for myself that it's better to have a fresh drink. It's just so easy to not risk it.

 

[Quarky00]

Precision less issue - entire setup/reactions different.. like.. it's an aquarium ;)

One can mix 1h before and relax (prob 8h too) but I understand people worried and respect that

 

[thelastchicken]

I was just cleaning my phone and found this doc, which I downloaded it seems ages ago:

Spoiler: screenshot

 

[Quarky00]

I was just cleaning my phone and found this doc, which I downloaded it seems ages ago:

That's for lab usage.... don't want a "left-over" contaminated SN for doing DNA :)

Note double-deionized water and NOS array -- in that context "unstable" does not mean it breaks down easily -- it's for a fine-tuned biochem lab. These things must be read carefully. For example: "more soluble at elevated temperatures" versus "kept on ice". A member tried to freeze it.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/attempting-to-make-sn-more-palatable.28757

 

[thelastchicken]

@Quarky00 , that's great to have someone who understands this stuff to explain :) Thanks. What do you think about sn exposure to air? For example exposed for 5 minutes, and then stored with a tightly closed lid for 5 months. What happens, how fast does it degrade/oxidize?

 

[Quarky00]

Studied biochem long ago, haven't worked at that field. I understand some but no expert.. feel free to correct/challange me:)

(1) Exposure to air looks fine, you've seen that thread:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/testing-sn-would-require-exposing-it-to-air.28664/

* All reactions described in literature are for 300C, or under pressure, or with other reactants (with sulfur bacteria etc). Lack of any other well described reaction time -- indicates degradation in room temperature is slow (weeks if not months).

(2) Also some moisture and air is ok:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...-hard-and-clumpy-should-i-still-use-it.26451/

* Clumps are normal. Research says "rate of oxidation related to surface", that is don't 'spread it around'. Actually clumps may be good (less surface to interact with air).

(3) Sodium nitrite is produced by reduction of nitrate salts - exposure to heat, light, etc. That is, heating nitrate results in SN+oxygen. Safe to assume that's the rather stable result. We know it can be further be reduced to other harmful substances, if conditions are right, I don't think just O2 at room temperature and pressure would do that in few hours.
NaNO3 -> NaNO2 + O2

As for the specific question, air tight container after exposure should be fine, I agree with what you wrote -

SN from those sealed bottles would've already been exposed to air

- - - - - - - -

I think we may overthink the entire thing, and worry about every iota of SN (while 10g in intestines is enough). I understand why, we're anxious and wary.

 

[thelastchicken]

Studied biochem long ago, haven't worked at that field. I understand some but no expert.. feel free to correct/challange me:)

(1) Exposure to air looks fine, you've seen that thread:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/testing-sn-would-require-exposing-it-to-air.28664/

* All reactions described in literature are for 300C, or under pressure, or with other reactants (with sulfur bacteria etc). Lack of any other well described reaction time -- indicates degradation in room temperature is slow (weeks if not months).

(2) Also some moisture and air is ok:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...-hard-and-clumpy-should-i-still-use-it.26451/

* Clumps are normal. Research says "rate of oxidation related to surface", that is don't 'spread it around'. Actually clumps may be good (less surface to interact with air).

(3) Sodium nitrite is produced by reduction of nitrate salts - exposure to heat, light, etc. That is, heating nitrate results in SN+oxygen. Safe to assume that's the rather stable result. We know it can be further be reduced to other harmful substances, if conditions are right, I don't think just O2 at room temperature and pressure would do that in few hours.
NaNO3 -> NaNO2 + O2

As for the specific question, air tight container after exposure should be fine, I agree with what you wrote -


- - - - - - - -

I think we may overthink the entire thing, and worry about every iota of SN (while 10g in intestines is enough). I understand why, we're anxious and wary.

Thank you very much for your input

And I apologize to the op for derailing the subject.

 

[Quarky00]

And I apologize to the op for derailing the subject.

Same I apologize . To sum it up :

Slow SN Degradation

1. Water – few hours
Concentration 40% , 20g/50ml , very high

2. Air – few weeks

3. Packed – few years
Clumps, temporary exposure to air are ok

 

[Moonicide]

Like many people are saying here, definitely take the mixture on the spot for the highest potency in order to be successful. Because it will become less potent the longer you leave it sitting there, which means the chance of being unsuccessful increases.

 

[Quarky00]

@thelastchicken , finally found data sheet for 40% solutions , like ours :

http://www.chemtradelogistics.com/main/wp-content/uploads/SDS-Sodium_Nitrite_Solution_40_CHE-2021S.pdf

Oxygen and water are not strong oxidizers. Lab solutions are pure H2O. Ours is a bit "dirty" but def potent for several hours :)

 

[thelastchicken]

@Quarky00 , thank you so much! That's a beautiful document right there :)

 

[jgm63]

@Quarky00 Being slightly lazy and not examining the thread in detail, but what are the main summary "takeaways" from this thread ?

 

[Quarky00]

@jgm63 . Takeaway – SN very durable even in a water solution .

Solid – not very reactive with water & air (slowly oxidize over long time). Clamps fine. Air-tight container can be opened and closed, won't go bad.
Solution (strong) – labs store it at room temp, open & close, a bit of oxygen is fine. Homemade solutions are not purified water, so should not be stored, but potency is maintained for at least several hours..

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
More data sheets & temperature:

TL;DR – Temp affects solution potency over time. Solid, air-tight, without moisture – should be fine. Has nothing to react with :)

Reactive substances have specific temp indication for reaction. Lacking those means "ok". SN (packed) mentioned only with regards to high heat, reagents, pressure, and combustion. Commercial SN for industrial use is transported in trucks/airplanes , neither heated nor cooled ...

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Sodium-nitrite

"Keep away from heat, sparks, and flame. Do not store near combustible materials. Store in a tightly closed container. Store in a cool, dry, well-ventilated area away from incompatible substances. Do not expose to air. Store protected from moisture. Store under an inert atmosphere."

"Keep/Store away from extremely high or low temperatures and incompatible materials".
http://www.chemtradelogistics.com/m.../SDS-Sodium_Nitrite_Solution_40_CHE-2021S.pdf

https://www.merckmillipore.com/Web-...tUID=365466&Language=EN&Country=EU&Origin=PDP