SN in capsules. Did vomit when I tried tablesalt in water.

[H_K_A]

Hi, I tried 25 g tablesalt in 50 mL water and did vomit. Therefore I am afraid to vomit when I try SN because of the taste. Is putting SN into capsules a good alternative? Heard that capsules might slow the process, but it may be better than throwing up.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Great test!

I mentioned on another thread that I was leaning toward capsules because people vomit from ingesting sea water, and SN is used in aquariums, so it made sense one would vomit from SN.

There have been debates here about capsules and I haven't seen any evidence against them besides potentially slowing the process, and I've observed a lot of preference against them.

I'm using size 0 gelatin capsules. In my research, they take 10-20 min to dissolve. I got a pill tray, watched the video for filling the capsules. I'm going to use extra SN to make up for potential variations among the capsules in dissolving time and how tightly they're packed, and because some of the SN will end up in the tray and not the capsules. Instead of a heaping tablespoon, I'll use 2 1/2 tablespoons.

Taking extra SN is also debated here, but again, I've seen a lot of preference against it, but I've seen no evidence to deter me.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I've found this research about the metabolizing of enteric capsules, and I'd be very pleased if someone could help me to interpret it for its possible applications to SN method.

http://[URL unfurl="true"]https://w..._of_hydroxypropyl_methylpthalate_capsules#pf5

[/URL]

In my understanding it takes about two hours for the capsules to pass the stomach phase and a total of seven hours for a complete absorption in the intestine tract. Could this process be shorted with the meto regime (stomach emptying) and the 8 hours fasting? May the intestine mucose absorb properly the SN in comparation with the stomach? Or might it pass all the intestinal tract without being absorbed? I don't know either if a salt like sodium nitrite would present incompatibility with some intestinal enzymes.

Not a good link.

 

[Ἡγησίας]

I've found this research about the metabolizing of enteric capsules, and I'd be very pleased if someone could help me to interpret it for its possible applications to SN method.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/285697323_In_vitro_and_invivo_evaluation_of_hydroxypropyl_methylpthalate_capsules#pf5

In my understanding it takes about two hours for the capsules to pass the stomach phase and a total of seven hours for a complete absorption in the intestine tract. Could this process be shorted with the meto regime (stomach emptying) and the 8 hours fasting? May the intestine mucose absorb properly the SN in comparation with the stomach? Or might it pass all the intestinal tract without being absorbed? I don't know either if a salt like sodium nitrite would present incompatibility with some intestinal enzymes.

NOTE: Enteric capsules dissolve in intestine, not in the stomach like cellulose/gelatin ones. I don't know if this is a better condition applied to SN method or not.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Also want to say to OP, vomiting could still happen with capsules. To me using capsules is less of an assault on the stomach than drinking it.

From what I understand in reading posts here by fellow random people on the internet, the meto assists in emptying the stomach and getting its contents -- SN -- into the system.

Just before the capsules, I'm going to be drinking 2.4 g crushed Propanolol to potentiate the SN, to potentially lose consciousness more quickly, and as a backup -- it is potentially fatal at 1 g. I don't have a problem with gagging/vomiting due to bitter taste, but if I vomit, I still have the SN.

NOTE: Enteric capsules dissolve in intestine, not in the stomach like cellulose/gelatin ones. I don't know if this is a better condition applied to SN method or not.

Thank you for highlighting the difference.

 

[H_K_A]

Ok, thank you.

 

[Quarky00]

It's not about the taste mostly but stomach and intestine reaction to certain salts. If taste was the only problem use a straw.

Capsules were discussed here, you can use the search option of the site, "SN Capsules" yields more than 50 results ;)

The short answer is: no.

Revisit Stan's description on SN journey through the intestines. We need SN quick in the small intestines.

 

[Ennuimortel]

just did the same test 20g of table salt in 50ml of water on an empty stomach and I did not vomited. It was very salty, right after I ate a piece of dark chocolate and it was largely bearable.
But that doesn't mean that I won't throw up the SN
I felt like I was drinking SN but no I am alive...
It was a good test which allows us to put ourselves in a situation

 

[Heady_Cerebrum]

The capsules, when they start to dissolve, will not all dissolve at the same rate, of the same way. You may start to feel sick rather quickly, but not reach the dose required for unconsciousness for an undetermined amount of time. To explain further, you could potentially start to feel sick within minutes of ingesting the pills, so Bob takes 25g of SN, approximately 35 capsules (00 size assuming around 735mg/capsule), over a 6 minute period (3 capsules every 30 seconds, 00s aren't tiny). But at 2 minutes some capsules begin to release SN. Bob starts to feel sick very soon after. He has to continue to take the remainder of the capsules or risk failure. SI could be a huge issue. Bob finally finishes the remainder of the pills. It took an extra 15 seconds per handful of pills due to the symptoms of SN poisoning, resulting in an additional 2½ minutes. It took a total of about 9 minutes to take all the pills. At the 15 minute mark (the supposed time for gelatin capsules to dissolve is between 10 and 20 minutes) the first taken pills begin to dissolve. The pills will continue to dissolve for another 15 minutes. The stopwatch is now at 30 minutes. Sometime between the 15 and 30-minute mark, Bob would have gone unconscious. I suspect that the additional material in the stomach from the pills and all the sips of water (more than 50ml in sure) would add additional time to unconsciousness as well. This method of delivering greatly reduces the peacefulness of dying through SN overdose.

Taking the SN as recommended, in 50ml of water, will result in unconsciousness within a few minutes to around 15 minutes.

 

[Ghost2211]

I honestly don't think table salt behaves the same way as SN in ones stomach, nor would it taste the same/similar. No harm in using table salt to emotionally prep, but I wouldn't consider it or how your body reacts to count as a dry run.

 

[Alcal]

A lot of taste comes from smells as well. Hold your nose when you swallow and it will make it more bearable. Next time you eat hold your nose and you'll have less taste.

Info-https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/1q8uu7/eli5_why_does_holding_your_nose_stop_you_from/

 

[Quarky00]

@Heady_Cerebrum , perfect thanx (was too tired to explain) :)

 

[Ἡγησίας]

The capsules, when they start to dissolve, will not all dissolve at the same rate, of the same way. You may start to feel sick rather quickly, but not reach the dose required for unconsciousness for an undetermined amount of time. To explain further, you could potentially start to feel sick within minutes of ingesting the pills, so Bob takes 25g of SN, approximately 35 capsules (00 size assuming around 735mg/capsule), over a 6 minute period (3 capsules every 30 seconds, 00s aren't tiny). But at 2 minutes some capsules begin to release SN. Bob starts to feel sick very soon after. He has to continue to take the remainder of the capsules or risk failure. SI could be a huge issue. Bob finally finishes the remainder of the pills. It took an extra 15 seconds per handful of pills due to the symptoms of SN poisoning, resulting in an additional 2½ minutes. It took a total of about 9 minutes to take all the pills. At the 15 minute mark (the supposed time for gelatin capsules to dissolve is between 10 and 20 minutes) the first taken pills begin to dissolve. The pills will continue to dissolve for another 15 minutes. The stopwatch is now at 30 minutes. Sometime between the 15 and 30-minute mark, Bob would have gone unconscious. I suspect that the additional material in the stomach from the pills and all the sips of water (more than 50ml in sure) would add additional time to unconsciousness as well. This method of delivering greatly reduces the peacefulness of dying through SN overdose.

Taking the SN as recommended, in 50ml of water, will result in unconsciousness within a few minutes to around 15 minutes.

Well explained, but that's not accurate information. I've filled 00 capsules with 20 grams of SN and there resulted exactly 20 capsules (with a capsule machine). And everybody can swallow 3 capsules of those every 20 seconds easily, so in 2 minutes and a half you can have ingested 20 capsulated grams of SN.

 

[Amorphous Blob]

I made a post on here before about parachuting it instead- basically wrap it in very thin tissue/rice paper and swallow. How I used to take mdma and other stuff to get around the taste. May need to make a few packages due to the size but it wouldn't slow absorbtion as it tears apart pretty much immidiately when swallowed

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I'm getting a lot of of this discussion! All of the testing, the back and forth, hearing different view points, directly addressing capsules as a valid topic of discussion rather than outright dismissing them...this is for me the most beneficial conversation I've participated in on SS.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Hi, I tried 25 g tablesalt in 50 mL water and did vomit.

I plan to try this experiment. I'd like to ask, after ingesting that much salt, did you experience other symptoms after vomiting? Dehydration, weakness, shakiness, tiredness, emotional changes, etc.?

 

[Heady_Cerebrum]

Well explained, but that's not accurate information. I've filled 00 capsules with 20 grams of SN and there resulted exactly 20 capsules (with a capsule machine). And everybody can swallow 3 capsules of those every 20 seconds easily, so in 2 minutes and a half you can have ingested 20 capsulated grams of SN.

It might fit in fewer capsules and someone might be able to down the pills faster. Another person might not fill the pills up completely, depending on how they are filling them (a capsule coming tray for example), and it could be more. Not everyone has the same sized mouths, hand dexterity (to fill the pills), gag reflex.

My example is just that and it points out different ways that capsules are not the best option. In your hypothetical case, with fewer pills and less time, I would still be concerned about the amount of water drank.

I also wonder about the amount of liquid in the stomach that would affect the ability of the gelatin pills to dissolve and their taste of release. I would suspect that if a person doesn't drink enough water with capsules (like the recommended 50ml of water) that they wouldn't dissolve very quickly and would be even more unpredictable as previously mentioned. I'm sure people would drink more with capsules, but there is the problem of having the solution mixing in the stomach being too dilute, increasing the amount of time to unconsciousness and raising the possibility of complications previously mentioned.

I still wouldn't bother attempting with capsules. The more I think about it the more areas of concern I come up with.

Hi, I tried 25 g tablesalt in 50 mL water and did vomit.

I'm not sure that table salt and SN have the same taste or effects on the stomach. I don't believe it will give you a true to life experience of taking SN.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I was going to try to drink 25g of salt tomorrow, brought it up on another thread. I learned DO NOT DO THIS.

A Systematic Review of Fatalities Related to Acute Ingestion of Salt. A Need for Warning Labels?

There are sporadic cases of fatalities from acutely eating salt. Yet, on social media, there are “challenges to” and examples of children and some adults acutely eating salt, and recently a charity advocated eating small amounts of salt ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

We performed a systematic review of fatalities from ingesting salt to assess if relatively moderate doses of salt could be fatal. In 27 reports, there were 35 fatalities documented (19 in adults and 16 in children). The lethal dose was estimated to be less than 10 g of sodium (<5 teaspoons of salt) in two children, and less than 25 g sodium in four adults (<4 tablespoons of salt).

 

[SuiSqueeze92]

Try parachuting it instead of capsules. Take toilet paper (best if you separate the 2 ply) and place contents in center. Wrap up into a little sack/parachute looking thing. Throw it back fast as shit and chase with water.

 

[nitrogen]

I'd like to mention a way to dull the taste bud that nobody seems to have mentioned on SS. Prior to taking the SN drink, let an ice cube melt in your mouth, then spit out the water. The cold temperature will dull your taste buds [4]. There're microscopic channels in our taste buds called TRPM5, that are more sensitive when the temperature of food or drink is increased, sending a stronger electrical signal to the brain that results in enhanced taste (mainly sweet, umami and bitter taste) [3]. It might also make sense to chill the SN drink in the fridge before you drink it; however, at lower temperatures, SN solubility decreases but not by much though, and a bit previously dissolved SN might crystallize. Just check out this graph.

I tried 25 g tablesalt in 50 mL water and did vomit.

Table salt (NaCl) itself is an emetic and poison due to too much of it can cause hypernatremia - It refers to high levels of sodium (Na+) in the blood, which draws water out of the cells. In fatal cases, symptoms of cerebral damage such as seizures, fever, and somnolence developed within hours after salt ingestion. People die under the clinical picture of cerebral edema. [1]

A mother in South Carolina made headlines for killing her 17-month old daughter—using just a teaspoon of table salt. [2]

What I mean by salt includes ordinary table salt, rock salt, food with high sodium foods, and of course includes SN.

A lot of taste comes from smells as well. Hold your nose when you swallow and it will make it more bearable. Next time you eat hold your nose and you'll have less taste.

In the case of ingesting SN, holding the nose won't help much. The reason why people suggest holding nose when chugging down nasty tasting fluid/food is that the human tongue can only taste sweet, sour, salty, bitter, umami and possibly "fatty", and much of the flavor of food comes from the smell. However, SN is odorless - It's mainly just salty and bitter.

If taste was the only problem use a straw.

Yes, using a straw will help. I'd like to add that try to land the straw at the very back of the tongue so that it may go straight down the throat so as to avoid contact with the taste buds on the tongue.

From my personal experience of drinking nasty fluids though, the drawback of using a straw is that you can't really chug or gulp down the fluid quickly. It would take you longer to finish the drink compared to directly drinking from a cup. I drink this traditional Chinese herbal medicine all the time, which is a thick brown soup made from boiling whole scorpions, cicada shells plus 8 other herbs. I prefer to chug it down in 5 gulps than to take 15 sips from a straw.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15556015
[2] https://www.abc10.com/article/news/...ing-17-month-old-by-giving-her-salt/287534889
[3] https://www.nature.com/articles/nature04248
[4] https://www.wikihow.com/Dull-Your-Taste-Buds

 

[martin8383784]

Interestingly enough I did a similar test today, but with a much smaller amount of salt/water. I don't have a scale to measure yet but it was a rounded teaspoon in 15-20 ml of water. I guess the concentration was not as high as of 20gr/50ml of water.
Was drinkable, a bit unpleasant but it was ok, left a little burning sensation in my throat.

A side question, what is the problem of dissolving SN in 100 and not 50 ml of water? Still a small amount

 

[Quarky00]

@nitrogen morning sunshine , pixelated graph made my retina commit suicide lol . We have 40% solution , so unsaturated until drops bellow -5C? I always thought -30C to 50C range is fine & potent , but interesting to know.

 

[nitrogen]

@nitrogen morning sunshine , pixelated graph made my retina commit suicide lol . We have 40% solution , so unsaturated until drops bellow -5C? I always thought -30C to 50C range is fine & potent , but interesting to know.

Well, the HD unpixelated graph costs $$$$ to open!!! That's as best as the free stuff gets.

If the solution we make is unsaturated until drops below -5C, then great! Chilling the SN solution in the fridge before drinking should tone down the bad taste, especially the bitter part. As a good real-life example of temp vs taste, ice cream tastes unbearably sweet when it's melted/at a higher temperature because the higher temp increases the taste buds' sensitivity. Coffee tastes more bitter when hot.

 

[Quarky00]

Oh it's a blessing , the graph saved me a drink - vision already double/blurry now ;)

Speaking of ice cream -- member (Rene?) froze SN into ice cubes , I wonder .. I'm not sure potency changes much in crystal form.

 

[nitrogen]

Oh it's a blessing , the graph saved me a drink - vision already double/blurry now ;)

Speaking of ice cream -- member (Rene?) froze SN into ice cubes , I wonder .. I'm not sure potency changes much in crystal form.

Oooo, freeze SN in ice cubes. I think ice balls are better than ice cubes since ice cubes have sharp edges that can scratch the esophagus as they go down.

Amazon sells these mini ice ball molds. Ice balls should be easy to swallow and dissolves faster than capsules.


Potency wise, I imagine drinking the cold liquid form of SN works faster. The crystal form would have to dissolve in the stomach into liquid first then gets absorbed.

Lol, stare at this pulsing flower, see if your double vision improves.


Edt:
PS, swallowing ice balls would probably need to drink water to flush them down, otherwise, they stick to the esophagus. Same problem with capsules - extra water.

 

[Quarky00]

PS, swallowing ice balls would probably need to drink water to flush them down, otherwise, they stick to the esophagus. Same problem with capsules - extra water.

Important point. So rather useless (though cute)

stare at this pulsing flower

Thank you. I am now officially blind.

 

[Shero]

Yes, using a straw will help. I'd like to add that try to land the straw at the very back of the tongue so that it may go straight down the throat so as to avoid contact with the taste buds on the tongue.

A funnel may be of potential use.

 

[SpaceForGrace]

Why is drinking some water after to wash the taste away not allowed? Can I, say, dissolve 22g SN in 40ml water and then drink 10ml of water after? Would appreciate the help. Thanks!

 

[Roger]

25gm SN in 59 ml water ain't gonna freeze in your domestic freezer.

. . . . . I drink this traditional Chinese herbal medicine all the time, which is a thick brown soup made from boiling whole scorpions, cicada shells plus 8 other herbs. . . .

No wonder you're bloody suicidal.

 

[Lostandfound7]

@quarter and @nitrogen , ty for the diagram n all!! Excuse me while I go cut my wrists with a plastic spoon...Smartness overload..Luv u both

@quarter and @nitrogen , ty for the diagram n all!! Excuse me while I go cut my wrists with a plastic spoon...Smartness overload..Luv u both

@Quarky00