Discussion Should pedophiles CTB themselves?

[Forever Sleep]

I agree with what you said about the population only because if we go back to the 90s with Britney Spears and "oops I Did It again." We can clearly see that she was marketed as jailbait. So surely there was an audience for that, I was too young to have an adult perspective on the matter then but...
While thought doesn't necessarily mean action...
I think the risk factor of someone being attracted to minors is something that can't be lightly excused.

It takes one person with sick thoughts to slip up and not only scar someone for life... But potentially lead the person they scarred to hurt others in the same fashion and thus create so much pain and suffering in the world.

Honestly my opinion is this...
While I don't think they should CTB,
We're not exactly going to be rounding them up and putting them in camps anytime soon sooo...
Maybe it's the better of two evils?
I can't really even call it evil to want to protect children though.

I completely agree with you that the media's sexualising of minors is deeply disturbing.

I suppose my hope is- they either refrain from acting on their thoughts or- they take themselves out before they 'slip up'. Same goes for rapists and murderers.

The problem I imagine is- only a percentage of them will have kept hold of their moral compass. I imagine to at least some of them, the knowledge that what they are doing is taboo and sadistic quite likely adds to their enjoyment. So- those types likely aren't going to self regulate. Plus, it's those trypes that are maybe the most dangerous because they are willing to act on their thoughts.

As a principle though- sure. Do I think it's better for someone to avoid raping a child or adult? Of course. Even if it means killing themselves? Yes. Maybe not the ideal option- it would be better if they could control themselves but, if they feel they can't...

On a broader scale though, it's a difficult quandry really. Away from the really bad stuff: Rape, murder, crime, bullying, intentionally harming others- I suspect we all passively harm others every day. Are you consuming any kind of animal product today? Are you using goods made in third world countries? It's pretty depressing that- just by living a relatively 'normal' life, the majority of us will be causing or perpetuating suffering on others. We're most likely being exploited too. Are you paid enough for your job? Probably not. And that is all normalised.

Really, I feel like all I'm going to do is perpetuate some sort of suffering the rest of my life. I'm going to continue to gobble up the earth's resources and pollute it. I'm vegetarian but not vegan- so- only marginally better. Yet, I feel stuck here because I know my suicide would very intensely hurt my Dad. So- it's a balance really. If they are a paedophille that doesn't act on their thoughts in any way and has a loving family and people who care a lot about them- then, they truly aren't a danger for now and maybe they feel the same obligation to stay alive for their loved ones. If they are acting on their thoughts though, the waters get more murky.

 

[Saturn_]

The way I see it is this, and this is just how I understand it and why I think they're a threat that we can't compromise with.

We become desensitized in steps.

Step 1 : it's okay to have thoughts as long as you get help and don't take actions.
Step 2 : it's okay that you can't control your actions
Step 3 : it's natural and there's no studies on it.
Step 4 : they have rights and the right to be happy.
Step 5 : if you don't tolerate them you'll lose your job and be ostracized from society.

^ and this is a scary reality. The only way to avoid the eventual outcome of "zero tolerance for intolerance" is with "zero tolerance for tolerance".

And I hope anyone who reads this and thinks I'm a piece of crap understands that I'm in no way supporting the persecution of any human being unless it is completely necessary.
But I would be lying if I didn't say I believe it is completely necessary.

But the post is just to see the general consensus of other people.

No, I also agree with that and don't think it's offensive at all. It can be a very slippery slope to even say something along the lines of "you are not your thoughts". To perhaps clarify what I meant, I think those thoughts are an immediate red flag which should not be accepted and should immediately be dealt with, and any actions are deserving of death -- one strike and you're out. I'm familiar with the "no contact" ideology and even that is extremely concerning to me. There should be no tolerance for urges like that, but there should be an opportunity to talk to a professional and prevent harm without any pat on the back for "just having thoughts".

 

[DoubleUp8]

What about the people who look the other way? Paterno? A succession of popes?

 

[TheLastGreySky]

I completely agree with you that the media's sexualising of minors is deeply disturbing.

I suppose my hope is- they either refrain from acting on their thoughts or- they take themselves out before they 'slip up'. Same goes for rapists and murderers.

The problem I imagine is- only a percentage of them will have kept hold of their moral compass. I imagine to at least some of them, the knowledge that what they are doing is taboo and sadistic quite likely adds to their enjoyment. So- those types likely aren't going to self regulate. Plus, it's those trypes that are maybe the most dangerous because they are willing to act on their thoughts.

As a principle though- sure. Do I think it's better for someone to avoid raping a child or adult? Of course. Even if it means killing themselves? Yes. Maybe not the ideal option- it would be better if they could control themselves but, if they feel they can't...

On a broader scale though, it's a difficult quandry really. Away from the really bad stuff: Rape, murder, crime, bullying, intentionally harming others- I suspect we all passively harm others every day. Are you consuming any kind of animal product today? Are you using goods made in third world countries? It's pretty depressing that- just by living a relatively 'normal' life, the majority of us will be causing or perpetuating suffering on others. We're most likely being exploited too. Are you paid enough for your job? Probably not. And that is all normalised.

Really, I feel like all I'm going to do is perpetuate some sort of suffering the rest of my life. I'm going to continue to gobble up the earth's resources and pollute it. I'm vegetarian but not vegan- so- only marginally better. Yet, I feel stuck here because I know my suicide would very intensely hurt my Dad. So- it's a balance really. If they are a paedophille that doesn't act on their thoughts in any way and has a loving family and people who care a lot about them- then, they truly aren't a danger for now and maybe they feel the same obligation to stay alive for their loved ones. If they are acting on their thoughts though, the waters get more murky.

I got to say I agree with you and unfortunately I have some bad news... The very way the crops are gathered by machines (Even the organically grown crops) kill countless small animals and wildlife.
Plants themselves have been scientifically proven to feel pain and even send distress signals to other plants.

In order to live something has to die.
And the only thing we can do is choose to not be a part of the cycle or to accept that we are parasitic by design.

But with that being said...
We can't exactly embrace hedonism?
Do we not lose our humanity by letting all things be excusable?

Maybe there is no universal right or wrong,
However, the media does exploit minors.
There is nothing sexual about child nudity,
And I don't think we ever needed to change the coppertone girl...

Eh hem, but if you ever seen pretty baby with Brooke Shields you'll know damn well that the media intentionally exploits children and they make a lot of money off of it and then turn around and pretend to be anti.

No one gave a crap about the coppertone girl cuz it was literally just a drawing.
Now that all child nudity is considered obscene and even pornographic, we have took something that was not naturally meant to arouse and then "marketed" it as taboo.

There's a reason why nudist beaches don't have a bunch of people swinging their dicks around.
But the second you make something forbidden or scarred, is the moment you invite the freaks in.

I imagine a future where pictures of Cupid will be burned in Mass and then the media will make movies about Cupid just fan the flames.
I'm sorry for my tangent I just think that if there's one organization that's evil it's definitely the media.

 

[DoubleUp8]

What about the sexualizing of really little girls like jonbenet ramsey and those kind of beauty pageants for little girls. Britney Spears at least was a teenager which if you are attracted to is technically not pedophilia. Still not right but not pedophilia. Those beauty pageants for real little girls are creepy and invite pedophilia. I didn't even know that such a thing existed until her murder and all the news coverage and I am certain that's what got the little jonbenet girl killed. Let children be children.

 

[TheLastGreySky]

No, I also agree with that and don't think it's offensive at all. It can be a very slippery slope to even say something along the lines of "you are not your thoughts". To perhaps clarify what I meant, I think those thoughts are an immediate red flag which should not be accepted and should immediately be dealt with, and any actions are deserving of death -- one strike and you're out. I'm familiar with the "no contact" ideology and even that is extremely concerning to me. There should be no tolerance for urges like that, but there should be an opportunity to talk to a professional and prevent harm without any pat on the back for "just having thoughts".

Ideally they should be able to get help however...
The one strike in you're out policy is really a
Mess up one kid for life and then you're out policy.

It's a little too late by that point.
And if you get 10 pedophiles with one strike each that's still 10 lives deeply affected.
Does it ruin all lives it touches? Probably not realistically... But should we treat it like it does?
Absolutely.

We don't exactly treat people who stabbed other people like "ah he didn't hit anything vital you'll be fine so we're just going to give him a slap on the wrist"

Now I will say, prison is literally free labor.
It's just modern slavery and if we could just free 25% of the prison population (not even going to explain why because that's a whole other rant)
And enslave 75% more pedophiles we may very well in world hunger before 2030.

What about the sexualizing of really little girls like jonbenet ramsey and those kind of beauty pageants for little girls. Britney Spears at least was a teenager which if you are attracted to is technically not pedophilia. Still not right but not pedophilia. Those beauty pageants for real little girls are creepy and invite pedophilia. I didn't even know that such a thing existed until her murder and all the news coverage and I am certain that's what got the little jonbenet girl killed. Let children be children.

I don't know too much about her case to really comment but like I was trying to say about child nudity, our perspective of the pageants might very well be the problem.

We're looking for witches.
So we're making witches.

I do think the pageants are creepy from my personal perspective. I think putting makeup on kids is just freaking creepy...
But I also know little girls putting on makeup is just them wanting to be like their mothers and it isn't inherently something twisted.

I wish I could really comment more on this because you definitely bring up a valid subtopic but I try not to be pretentious.

 

[DoubleUp8]

Pedophilia is a sexuality in the same way that rape is a sexuality. Children can't consent. Anything with consenting adults ok. Anything nonconsensual is not. More like a criminal act than sexuality

 

[Saturn_]

Ideally they should be able to get help however...
The one strike in you're out policy is really a
Mess up one kid for life and then you're out policy.

It's a little too late by that point.
And if you get 10 pedophiles with one strike each that's still 10 lives deeply affected.
Does it ruin all lives it touches? Probably not realistically... But should we treat it like it does?
Absolutely.

We don't exactly treat people who stabbed other people like "ah he didn't hit anything vital you'll be fine so we're just going to give him a slap on the wrist"

Now I will say, prison is literally free labor.
It's just modern slavery and if we could just free 25% of the prison population (not even going to explain why because that's a whole other rant)
And enslave 75% more pedophiles we may very well in world hunger before 2030.

I see what you're saying, it's just that my main concern lies not with protecting people like this, but the persecution of thoughts without intentions also seems like a dangerous slippery slope. I used to know a close friend who was sexually assaulted by a parent, who developed OCD-like intrusive thoughts of a violent and sexual nature. I have seen people like this express that they are pedophiles, and upon further inspection of these thoughts, completely lack urges or intent. Thoughts can already be extremely difficult to decipher in terms of legal justice, and it just doesn't seem practical in execution, while I'd of course want every complacent pedophile to die. I think it should be treated similarly to murder, as you brought up, in that if someone expresses the intent to sexually abuse a child, or attempts it, or anything like that, then action is taken before any harm can be done.

 

[TheLastGreySky]

Pedophilia is a sexuality in the same way that rape is a sexuality. Children can't consent. Anything with consenting adults ok. Anything nonconsensual is not. More like a criminal act than sexuality

Kids smoke and drink and do things they shouldn't, but they aren't aware of the consequences.
It's not a matter of them not being able to simply just consent.
It's a matter of us being responsible for the people who can't be responsible for themselves.
I think we have a civic duty to protect them from themselves to a certain age.

I think the focus on consent is kind of a double-edged sword. Like you mean to tell me you waited till you were 18 to lose your virginity or to drink or smoke?

But I can almost bet there are some people who would have smacked a cigarette out of your mouth with love and good intention.
They're definitely were some people who would have kicked my rear if they ever caught me drinking when I was younger.

 

[DoubleUp8]

Ideally they should be able to get help however...
The one strike in you're out policy is really a
Mess up one kid for life and then you're out policy.

It's a little too late by that point.
And if you get 10 pedophiles with one strike each that's still 10 lives deeply affected.
Does it ruin all lives it touches? Probably not realistically... But should we treat it like it does?
Absolutely.

We don't exactly treat people who stabbed other people like "ah he didn't hit anything vital you'll be fine so we're just going to give him a slap on the wrist"

Now I will say, prison is literally free labor.
It's just modern slavery and if we could just free 25% of the prison population (not even going to explain why because that's a whole other rant)
And enslave 75% more pedophiles we may very well in world hunger before 2030.

I don't know too much about her case to really comment but like I was trying to say about child nudity, our perspective of the pageants might very well be the problem.

We're looking for witches.
So we're making witches.

I do think the pageants are creepy from my personal perspective. I think putting makeup on kids is just freaking creepy...
But I also know little girls putting on makeup is just them wanting to be like their mothers and it isn't inherently something twisted.

I wish I could really comment more on this because you definitely bring up a valid subtopic but I try not to be pretentious.

Im not saying the little girls are twisted to want to play dress up. That's completely normal and ok. What's twisted is a pageant for children that young parading them in front of an audience where you know damn well will attract pedophiles. I was honestly surprised and unaware that there were pageants for girls that young until the jonbenet murder.

 

[TheLastGreySky]

I see what you're saying, it's just that my main concern lies not with protecting people like this, but the persecution of thoughts without intentions also seems like a dangerous slippery slope. I used to know a close friend who was sexually assaulted by a parent, who developed OCD-like intrusive thoughts of a violent and sexual nature. I have seen people like this express that they are pedophiles, and upon further inspection of these thoughts, completely lack urges or intent. Thoughts can already be extremely difficult to decipher in terms of legal justice, and it just doesn't seem practical in execution, while I'd of course want every complacent pedophile to die. I think it should be treated similarly to murder, as you brought up, in that if someone expresses the intent to sexually abuse a child, or attempts it, or anything like that, then action is taken before any harm can be done.

I don't think that thoughts should be persecuted.
I don't think it's ethnically right however...

I do think it's completely necessary no matter how slippery of a slope it is, that's why I had the desensitization steps listed as my concern.

Realistically, we can't end pedophilia with this discussion. But it's definitely something interesting. I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm pushing some Nazi ideology, and I understand completely if you feel like I am.

But if we were to bring up trans issues where minors are transitioning, not to stir the pot...
But to bring into consideration of the idea of them being allowed to consent...
Then it appears to me the only thing we can do is protect them from the people who would exploit them. You can't honestly say there aren't corporations who are financially profiting from kids transitioning... So there most certainly are human beings who would profit off a minor being allowed to make decisions for themselves that they have no cognitive ability to perceive the consequences of.

I in no way want anyone to feel persecuted.
However, I do think that in a lot of ways the ends justifies the means.

 

[DoubleUp8]

I think all the evidence and data about recidivism shows that pedophiles can rarely be helped or rehabilitated. It is however more widespread and commonplace than most people are aware. Look at the Catholic Church. And the Epstein guy was i believe murdered because he could have outed some rich powerful people. Again Epstein - underage girls. Technically this is not pedophilia. Pedophilia is attraction to pre-pubescent boys or girls. I'm definitely not excusing any of it. Just a technical differentiation.

 

[TheLastGreySky]

Im not saying the little girls are twisted to want to play dress up. That's completely normal and ok. What's twisted is a pageant for children that young parading them in front of an audience where you know damn well will attract pedophiles. I was honestly surprised and unaware that there were pageants for girls that young until the jonbenet murder.

So something interesting about Japan, there actually are places that are women only.

I do think that only the media and a parent with an accompanying child should be allowed to events like pageants. But realistically that's not going to happen and it certainly isn't going to be something that is not televised.

I think all the evidence and data about recidivism shows that pedophiles can rarely be helped or rehabilitated. It is however more widespread and commonplace than most people are aware. Look at the Catholic Church. And the Epstein guy was i believe murdered because he could have outed some rich powerful people. Again Epstein - underage girls. Technically this is not pedophilia. Pedophilia is attraction to pre-pubescent boys or girls. I'm definitely not excusing any of it. Just a technical differentiation.

Yeah but, the problem is when we differentiate between 17 and 10, is we start giving leeway what's acceptable. Can a 19-year-old date a 17 year old? And a lot more people are okay with this then most people realize. I recently found out my ex's ex who is 22 is dating a 17-year-old and his whole family and her whole family is cool with it and it's really sick.

On the opposite side of the spectrum I'm in my early thirties, and a lot of people have a problem with me dating women in their early and mid-20s.
They assume I'm grooming when really I already have a bunch of kids and I don't need four step kids on top of my own.

The way I see it is even if it is genetically natural (and I am NOT saying it is) it is something that we need to put a stop to. If we are to evolve as a species it will mean an end to the lesser form of our species. I don't want to go on a rant about the Neanderthals but I think you know where this is going.

Yes once upon a time it was acceptable for a man in his 40s to marry a 14 year old.
And unfortunately that wasn't that long ago,
It was even in the early and mid 1900s that people were still marrying their first cousins in America.
But I think the only thing we can do is take a step forward... And make sure that sorts of behavior are met with execution.

And I'm not even saying it's right.
I do think that that's the only thing that could benefit society and protect children though.

This is just my opinion, I don't even intend it to sound as radical as it does. Lol

 

[DoubleUp8]

About minors transitioning. Idk. I don't think someone that young can really understand the complexity of sexuality. Hell a lot of grown adults don't understand the complexity of sexuality. It's really not as simple as gay or straight or trans or bi. Way more complicated than that and kids will end up doing something they regret. Someone at 13 might think they are 1 way and at 21 realize they are something completely different and at 35 be totally different than either of their previous sexual incarnations. Sexuality really is complicated

 

[TheLastGreySky]

About minors transitioning. Idk. I don't think someone that young can really understand the complexity of sexuality. Hell a lot of grown adults don't understand the complexity of sexuality. It's really not as simple as gay or straight or trans or bi. Way more complicated than that and kids will end up doing something they regret. Someone at 13 might think they are 1 way and at 21 realize they are something completely different and at 35 be totally different than either of their previous sexual incarnations. Sexuality really is complicated

Absolutely.

 

[DoubleUp8]

So something interesting about Japan, there actually are places that are women only.

I do think that only the media and a parent with an accompanying child should be allowed to events like pageants. But realistically that's not going to happen and it certainly isn't going to be something that is not televised.

Yeah but, the problem is when we differentiate between 17 and 10, is we start giving leeway what's acceptable. Can a 19-year-old date a 17 year old? And a lot more people are okay with this then most people realize. I recently found out my ex's ex who is 22 is dating a 17-year-old and his whole family and her whole family is cool with it and it's really sick.

On the opposite side of the spectrum I'm in my early thirties, and a lot of people have a problem with me dating women in their early and mid-20s.
They assume I'm grooming when really I already have a bunch of kids and I don't need four step kids on top of my own.

The way I see it is even if it is genetically natural (and I am NOT saying it is) it is something that we need to put a stop to. If we are to evolve as a species it will mean an end to the lesser form of our species. I don't want to go on a rant about the Neanderthals but I think you know where this is going.

Yes once upon a time it was acceptable for a man in his 40s to marry a 14 year old.
And unfortunately that wasn't that long ago,
It was even in the early and mid 1900s that people were still marrying their first cousins in America.
But I think the only thing we can do is take a step forward... And make sure that sorts of behavior are met with execution.

And I'm not even saying it's right.
I do think that that's the only thing that could benefit society and protect children though.

This is just my opinion, I don't even intend it to sound as radical as it does. Lol

I think in some parts of the world it's still considered ok for a 40 year old man to marry a 12 or 13 year old girl. That Mormon cult? Warren Jeffs I think was his name. May have spelled it wrong. Whole lotta sick shit was going on there. Pretty sure he's still in prison but it's probably still going on in that Mormon cult. I am not painting all Mormons with a broad brush but there are more than 1 Mormon cults who practice this type of thing. They just have to be more underground now

So something interesting about Japan, there actually are places that are women only.

I do think that only the media and a parent with an accompanying child should be allowed to events like pageants. But realistically that's not going to happen and it certainly isn't going to be something that is not televised.

Yeah but, the problem is when we differentiate between 17 and 10, is we start giving leeway what's acceptable. Can a 19-year-old date a 17 year old? And a lot more people are okay with this then most people realize. I recently found out my ex's ex who is 22 is dating a 17-year-old and his whole family and her whole family is cool with it and it's really sick.

On the opposite side of the spectrum I'm in my early thirties, and a lot of people have a problem with me dating women in their early and mid-20s.
They assume I'm grooming when really I already have a bunch of kids and I don't need four step kids on top of my own.

The way I see it is even if it is genetically natural (and I am NOT saying it is) it is something that we need to put a stop to. If we are to evolve as a species it will mean an end to the lesser form of our species. I don't want to go on a rant about the Neanderthals but I think you know where this is going.

Yes once upon a time it was acceptable for a man in his 40s to marry a 14 year old.
And unfortunately that wasn't that long ago,
It was even in the early and mid 1900s that people were still marrying their first cousins in America.
But I think the only thing we can do is take a step forward... And make sure that sorts of behavior are met with execution.

And I'm not even saying it's right.
I do think that that's the only thing that could benefit society and protect children though.

This is just my opinion, I don't even intend it to sound as radical as it does. Lol

There is a huge difference between the boy who just turned 18 having sex with his girlfriend who is 2 months away from turning 18 and a 40 year old man raping a 10 year old. That's why it's important to differentiate between pedophilia and underage

 

[TheLastGreySky]

I think in some parts of the world it's still considered ok for a 40 year old man to marry a 12 or 13 year old girl. That Mormon cult? Warren Jeffs I think was his name. May have spelled it wrong. Whole lotta sick shit was going on there. Pretty sure he's still in prison but it's probably still going on in that Mormon cult. I am not painting all Mormons with a broad brush but there are more than 1 Mormon cults who practice this type of thing. They just have to be more underground now

There is a huge difference between the boy who just turned 18 having sex with his girlfriend who is 2 months away from turning 18 and a 40 year old man raping a 10 year old. That's why it's important to differentiate between pedophilia and underage

You're right about the flds and Warren jeffs however most Mormons don't allow underage marriage and it's a very broad generalization to say that they do. That's like saying all native Americans do something even though there's many different tribes.

I actually got married at 17 and my now ex wife was 16 in Kansas.
But now they're trying to save the law was never legally binding even though they took my ass to the courthouse.

To my knowledge the Amish still get married at 14.

I get why you do refresh rate however my point was Zero tolerance is the only way to ensure a level of security but that was me expressing my opinion. I'm in no way saying anyone else should think the way I do but it was a very fun conversation while it was heated so to speak

 

[DoubleUp8]

I have a problem and really uncomfortable with the whole pageant thing for little girls. There are some people, feminists who have a problem with pageants even for adult women. I guess I have never really been a fan of beauty pageants period either. But for little girls it's just creepy.

You're right about the flds and Warren jeffs however most Mormons don't allow underage marriage and it's a very broad generalization to say that they do. That's like saying all native Americans do something even though there's many different tribes.

I actually got married at 17 and my now ex wife was 16 in Kansas.
But now they're trying to save the law was never legally binding even though they took my ass to the courthouse.

To my knowledge the Amish still get married at 14.

I get why you do refresh rate however my point was Zero tolerance is the only way to ensure a level of security but that was me expressing my opinion. I'm in no way saying anyone else should think the way I do but it was a very fun conversation while it was heated so to speak

I did say I wasn't painting all Mormons with the same broad brush. But there is more than 1 Mormon cult who still believe in the old ways of Brigham Young, polygamy, and a girl is eligible at 12. The guy who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart. Salt Lake Police beat a homeless man to death over that who was completely innocent by the way. I knew right away when they showed her photo and revealed her age that it was 1 of the renegade mormons in Utah.

 

[TheLastGreySky]

I have a problem and really uncomfortable with the whole pageant thing for little girls. There are some people, feminists who have a problem with pageants even for adult women. I guess I have never really been a fan of beauty pageants period either. But for little girls it's just creepy.

I did say I wasn't painting all Mormons with the same broad brush. But there is more than 1 Mormon cult who still believe in the old ways of Brigham Young, polygamy, and a girl is eligible at 12. The guy who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart. Salt Lake Police beat a homeless man to death over that who was completely innocent by the way. I knew right away when they showed her photo and revealed her age that it was 1 of the renegade mormons in Utah.

Oh that's right they were Mormons too I forgot that LOL.

Now if you said they practice polyamory that would be entirely true. Not that there's anything wrong with it when all parties consent

 

[DoubleUp8]

Kids smoke and drink and do things they shouldn't, but they aren't aware of the consequences.
It's not a matter of them not being able to simply just consent.
It's a matter of us being responsible for the people who can't be responsible for themselves.
I think we have a civic duty to protect them from themselves to a certain age.

I think the focus on consent is kind of a double-edged sword. Like you mean to tell me you waited till you were 18 to lose your virginity or to drink or smoke?

But I can almost bet there are some people who would have smacked a cigarette out of your mouth with love and good intention.
They're definitely were some people who would have kicked my rear if they ever caught me drinking when I was younger.

A kid smoking or drinking is gonna happen and they really shouldn't but it's not as appalling as pedophilia
Do you think Michael Jackson was actually a pedophile?

 

[Saturn_]

I don't think that thoughts should be persecuted.
I don't think it's ethnically right however...

I do think it's completely necessary no matter how slippery of a slope it is, that's why I had the desensitization steps listed as my concern.

Realistically, we can't end pedophilia with this discussion. But it's definitely something interesting. I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm pushing some Nazi ideology, and I understand completely if you feel like I am.

But if we were to bring up trans issues where minors are transitioning, not to stir the pot...
But to bring into consideration of the idea of them being allowed to consent...
Then it appears to me the only thing we can do is protect them from the people who would exploit them. You can't honestly say there aren't corporations who are financially profiting from kids transitioning... So there most certainly are human beings who would profit off a minor being allowed to make decisions for themselves that they have no cognitive ability to perceive the consequences of.

I in no way want anyone to feel persecuted.
However, I do think that in a lot of ways the ends justifies the means.

Not even going to argue about the bit about transitioning minors because I know neither of our minds will be changed, and I don't see how a medical evaluation is the same as an individual person's thoughts, regardless of your opinion. But wouldn't punishing the expression of pedophilic thoughts encourage secrecy, and not taking preventative measures until it's too late? The mindset of a criminal is obviously not "don't commit the crime", but rather "don't get caught".

We've outlawed drugs such as LSD, heroin and cocaine, and dealers only find better and better methods to keep their illegal activity secret. This is not to compare drug use to pedophilia in any way, but is brought up to acknowledge the mindset of a person doing something forbidden. Outlawing an imaginal activity is a whole nother can of worms. If a person recognizes that they have pedophilic thoughts, and recognizes that these thoughts alone are punishable by jail time or death, then they are completely discouraged from communicating these problems, as I'd assume a professional under this scenario would immediately report these thoughts to the authorities.

Take the core subject matter of this entire forum for example. If I had a nickel for every person, on this site and otherwise, who said they avoided seeking help for suicidal ideation because they don't want to end up in a psych ward, I'd be a millionaire. But it doesn't erase the thought -- it never does, and thousands of people have probably killed themselves inadvertently from this fear of the Baker Act alone, and this fear of communicating their problems. Again, this is not to compare these two completely different behaviors. But you see the problem that comes from persecuting a thought, no?

Outlawing pedophilic thoughts will never erase them, and would most likely work in the opposite direction and encourage secrecy. Some pedophiles would end up behind bars or on death row. But it'd also encourage these urges to fester inside the mind of a pedophile, or it'd encourage pedophiles to form their own echo chambers, and I'd imagine many children being harmed as an unfortunate result of this well-intentioned law. Your scenario sounds lovely and ideal on paper, but I only see it crumbling in on itself in reality.

 

[bramblebamblebambe]

Thinking about this really disturbs me but I wonder how many nonces may not act on it physically but access it through porn? it's probably a lot more common then we realize. What's also really disgusting is parents baiting their children online, they should have repercussions as well.

I don't know if I'm missing something or don't understand properly, I'm autistic sorry, but saying that pedos should be stopped before they do something, isn't that idealistic and not a solution? Like genuinely asking, I'm no human behavior expert but I imagine it is incredibly rare that someone that only has unwanted intrusive thoughts would come forward to get help let alone a person that has copious amounts of material or ones who have acted on it.

I think it is a really difficult subject to tackle, and because it understandably makes people uncomfortable and is a taboo people don't want to discuss it,.....but by more people talking about it, is it more likely something could be done? Could there be procedures in place? I dunno,.... It seems more likely, rightly or wrongly nonces will not feel safe or comfy or some even guilty or have a conscience for causing harm to children, so even if there was less stigma and more support I don't know if there would be more confessions or justice.

Saying that, and I really don't know why they told me, but this bothers me soooooooo much, but I have had two instances in my life where pedos have confessed to me what they've done. Is it showing off? Is it trying to enrage me? Is it thinking that I would be okay with it? Was it cause they thought if I told anyone they wouldn't believe me? Was it a cry for help? Maybe they saw me as a very understanding person and needed to be understood without judgment, however I have my limits and got very emotional each time, it is hard for me to have empathy for such vile acts, but maybe that is what is needed to break the chain, it'll take really strong therapists to hear their thoughts though. One of them went to prison the other tried to abuse and manipulate me(and did to an extent but I got away) but is free, but both wanted to ctb. I know this is just my experience and perhaps many nonces do want to Ctb but I reckon there's prolly just as many or more who don't see anything wrong with what they're doing.

Being homeless myself, I have unfortunately heard too many personal stories of mainly incest but some from schools. Some victims came forward but most didn't, it's tragic, feel so powerless, knowing that most likely way to stop nonces, is for them one of their victims to come forward but by then the damage is done and it is incredibly hard for the victim to do.

I have a fantasy that one day that AI will be good enough to delete all inappropriate child images (and other disturbing things), not just online but on any phone or computer with wifi access and when anyone tries to upload them automatically delete it and reports them to the police but also out all the nonces publicly so that we all know who they are and what they look like,..... Which might lead more to ctb.

 

[SilverTiger]

Personally speaking... This depends.

Someone who wacks off to Loli or Shota Hentai:
A little weird, but no only they should decide if they CTB.... They just have a weird fetish, if they think it is a problem, they should get checked out.

Someone who wacks off to actual CP
They should seek help for this, no one is beyond redemption, only they should decide if they CTB.

Someone who is attracted to Minors but is non-offending.
They should seek help for this, no one is beyond redemption, only they should decide if they CTB.

Someone who is has offended against a minor.
They should seek help for this, but this is hard... They have hurt someone else, sometimes in unrepairable ways I am not sure, but personally I lean towards they should decided themselves.

 

[UKscotty]

I would say absolutely yes, they should be allowed and supported to CTB as quickly as possible.

It's alarming there is even talk about blaming children for looking sexual etc. 100% of the responsibility is on the pedo.

 

[TheLastGreySky]

Not even going to argue about the bit about transitioning minors because I know neither of our minds will be changed, and I don't see how a medical evaluation is the same as an individual person's thoughts, regardless of your opinion. But wouldn't punishing the expression of pedophilic thoughts encourage secrecy, and not taking preventative measures until it's too late? The mindset of a criminal is obviously not "don't commit the crime", but rather "don't get caught".

We've outlawed drugs such as LSD, heroin and cocaine, and dealers only find better and better methods to keep their illegal activity secret. This is not to compare drug use to pedophilia in any way, but is brought up to acknowledge the mindset of a person doing something forbidden. Outlawing an imaginal activity is a whole nother can of worms. If a person recognizes that they have pedophilic thoughts, and recognizes that these thoughts alone are punishable by jail time or death, then they are completely discouraged from communicating these problems, as I'd assume a professional under this scenario would immediately report these thoughts to the authorities.

Take the core subject matter of this entire forum for example. If I had a nickel for every person, on this site and otherwise, who said they avoided seeking help for suicidal ideation because they don't want to end up in a psych ward, I'd be a millionaire. But it doesn't erase the thought -- it never does, and thousands of people have probably killed themselves inadvertently from this fear of the Baker Act alone, and this fear of communicating their problems. Again, this is not to compare these two completely different behaviors. But you see the problem that comes from persecuting a thought, no?

Outlawing pedophilic thoughts will never erase them, and would most likely work in the opposite direction and encourage secrecy. Some pedophiles would end up behind bars or on death row. But it'd also encourage these urges to fester inside the mind of a pedophile, or it'd encourage pedophiles to form their own echo chambers, and I'd imagine many children being harmed as an unfortunate result of this well-intentioned law. Your scenario sounds lovely and ideal on paper, but I only see it crumbling in on itself in reality.

You bring a really good point. I will reply back to this later since I'm going to get some sleep but I'm actually glad that you brought that up because it's a really convincing counter argument from what I've read so far. I'm falling asleep but I'll definitely get back to this

 

[derpyderpins]

I'm sorry if this question is offensive.
But in all honesty I've always wanted to ask this from a group that actually takes suicide seriously.

Some people see as a mental illness and then some people see it as a legit sexuality,
But regardless of which one it is it's universally agreed that it's extremely harmful.

Thoughts?

Have they actually acted on it and hurt/abused/violated children? If "no": no one should be punished for thoughts alone. If "yes": they should be given a painful, suffering-filled death imo. A clean ctb is too merciful.

 

[Anonstudent]

It is an insanely complex topic that is often simplified because of how disgusting it is. Not to even mention the consequences for victims and families.

It's a bit like the death penalty in that killing all pedophiles would be fine if we were sure no innocents would fall under the umbrella.
We all know after all what prison justice means for pedophiles and related sexual crimes.

In either case my gut reaction to the initial question is absolutely yes, exterminate them all. And my more thoughtful reaction would be that the important thing is to prevent people from being pedophiles in the first place so as to prevent people becoming victims and thus their harm to society.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

If they act upon their thoughts, I believe that they should be kept alive to suffer in prison. It'd be unfair for somebody who inflicts suffering upon others like that to be allowed a peaceful way out of here. If they act upon their thoughts, they should face the consequences of doing so and should not be allowed access to ctb. Killing them off would just make them escape the punishment that they deserve

 

[jar-baby]

Pedophilia is defined by an attraction (that is or was most likely outside an individual's control), not an offence. There is no evidence to suggest that all or even most pedophiles are offenders. It's fallacious to argue that allowing pedophiles to voice their issues in an attempt to address them is going to make the offence socially acceptable—some are aware that acting on their attractions would be immoral and refrain from doing so, and they should be helped. Obviously the issue is complicated by the fact that when most people conceptualise a pedophile it's an offending one, since those are the only ones we hear about. The offence being immoral in such a viscerally repulsive way also clouds judgement imo.

I mostly feel pity for non-offending pedophiles, which I'd hazard are in the majority.

 

[Niyxx]

I'm sorry if this question is offensive.
But in all honesty I've always wanted to ask this from a group that actually takes suicide seriously.

Some people see as a mental illness and then some people see it as a legit sexuality,
But regardless of which one it is it's universally agreed that it's extremely harmful.

Thoughts?

Hm yes. As a person who has little value over there own life, I see the reason other people are alive because they deserve to be or have a future. If someone is a pedophile and is harmful, or refuses to be held accountable then I couldn't care less about your existence. They are just going to hurt more kids, and that is indescribable pain. I think it's easier as someone who doesn't randomly value human life that there is no benefits to this existence. I suppose it depends on the actions they have done though