Repetitive Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (rTMS) experiences

[arnxxx]

Hey everyone

Multiple types medications (venlafaxine, olanzapine, clomipramine, lithium) didnt work on my depression so therefore rTMS became available for me.

For who doesn't know, rTMS is a machine giving magnetic pulses to the brain every second. Ive had 15 sessions and no result. In total there could be 40 sessions before we give it up. The next step could be ECT. They bring you in a coma and electro shock your brains.

Im looking for people that have experience with either of these treatments. did they work and how long did it take? What about side effects? Im getting desperate over here.

 

[Linda]

I haven't had either, but I know that ECT can be very damaging. Maybe they do it more carefully than they used to, but I think you need to be cautious. Apparently it can sometims be helpful, but it would be wise to read up about it thoroughly before you decide to let them do it. There is a lot of information available online. Wikipedia is a good place to start.

 

[scientificmethid]

I'm on session 34 of 36. It seems to have helped me. I was highly skeptical but I like being surprised.

 

[Guy_Smiley]

I have done both TMS and ECT. I actually did ECT first. They both helped with my depression, especially ECT. In both cases, I only started feeling better after I had completed the full course of treatment. Usually, people start feeling better earlier than that, but there are people (such as myself) who respond later for whatever reason. ECT made my short-term memory really bad (which isn't uncommon), but it returned to normal within a couple weeks after I finished. TMS had no side-effects at all.

I haven't had either, but I know that ECT can be very damaging. Maybe they do it more carefully than they used to, but I think you need to be cautious.

ECT is done very differently these days than it was in the past. There's a ton of research that shows modern ECT very rarely causes any permanent memory problems (or any other kind of problems). Scientists have examined the brains of (deceased) people who had literally hundreds of ECT treatments throughout their lives and found there were no differences between them and the brains of people who had never received ECT.

Hope that helps.

 

[CuriosityAndCat]

TMS and esketamine were both effective. Keep trying medications.
Also everything you do is additive. If you manage going for a walk or working out or like in addition to medication, You're more likely to find success.

 

[arnxxx]

I'm on session 34 of 36. It seems to have helped me. I was highly skeptical but I like being surprised.

Hey there,
Can you tell me more? What improvement do you notice? In what way and what level does it decrease the impact of your depression?

Guy Smiley: did the treatment have permanent or semi-permanent results? Did you get rid of your depression or problems?

Cat: I would like to try esketamine but my psychiatrist won't send them a letter (they need one for them to start). I just want to be on the waiting list of 6 months. My psychiatrist still thinks therapy will help.

 

[LittleJem]

rTMS helped me for three days. it was great when it worked.
Hopefully you will see results as you carry on your sessions...

ECT I personally would beg for it!

 

[CuriosityAndCat]

Hey there,
Can you tell me more? What improvement do you notice? In what way and what level does it decrease the impact of your depression?

Guy Smiley: did the treatment have permanent or semi-permanent results? Did you get rid of your depression or problems?

Cat: I would like to try esketamine but my psychiatrist won't send them a letter (they need one for them to start). I just want to be on the waiting list of 6 months. My psychiatrist still thinks therapy will help.

You can do both therapy and S-ketamine. It's not one or the other. I strongly recommend therapy because it can enhance what you're feeling. Few times I went in with negative emotions I had a bad trip and it affected me for a few days.
Are you dealing with more than depression?

 

[arnxxx]

You can do both therapy and S-ketamine. It's not one or the other. I strongly recommend therapy because it can enhance what you're feeling. Few times I went in with negative emotions I had a bad trip and it affected me for a few days.
Are you dealing with more than depression?

I think its 'just' depression. Esketamine is not an option here because my psychiatrist won't refer me. That's a must where I live. The waiting line is 6 months.

I have therapy with mixed results. Following ACT right now but it goes very slow. I just want to get rid of this depression and I don't care anymore how. Side effects? Can't be worse than what I'm experiencing right now.

LittleJem it worked only for a few days? How does that work... I see ECT as an option but before my psych refers me I probably have to finish the rTMS

20 sessions. No result. Same as with the meds. It's driving me nuts and makes me think of CTB as a final solution...

 

[CuriosityAndCat]

I think its 'just' depression. Esketamine is not an option here because my psychiatrist won't refer me. That's a must where I live. The waiting line is 6 months.

I have therapy with mixed results. Following ACT right now but it goes very slow. I just want to get rid of this depression and I don't care anymore how. Side effects? Can't be worse than what I'm experiencing right now.

LittleJem it worked only for a few days? How does that work... I see ECT as an option but before my psych refers me I probably have to finish the rTMS

20 sessions. No result. Same as with the meds. It's driving me nuts and makes me think of CTB as a final solution...

That's strange. Yea, same here with preauth. If you didn't see any change after 3 weeks, request to change meds.

ECT is an option and safe, but esketamine is usually tried before that. Any chance you can get second opinion from another psychiatrist?

 

[CuriosityAndCat]

Do you feel tired afterwards?

 

[arnxxx]

Do you feel tired afterwards?

Hey there. No I don't have any side effects.

That's strange. Yea, same here with preauth. If you didn't see any change after 3 weeks, request to change meds.

ECT is an option and safe, but esketamine is usually tried before that. Any chance you can get second opinion from another psychiatrist?

I don't think I can get a second opinion. The psych is part of an organisation which includes two psychologists that I see weekly and the psychiatrist is the 'director'. I might change psychologists for one that does psychotherapy.

 

[CuriosityAndCat]

It's been a couple hours after today's TMS session. Super tired

 

[arnxxx]

It's been a couple hours after today's TMS session. Super tired

Just done with my 22th session. You think being tired is a side effect? I have no side effects. No effects at all unfortunately.

They will start with the left side soon. They told me they'll do 25 sessions left before concluding it doesn't work.

I can only pray it will work. If not ECT might be the next step.

 

[CuriosityAndCat]

I'm doing deep tms not rtms
Try esketamine treatment before ECT

 

[letmegetout]

I had rTMS, saw no improvement at all but it does work for 40% of people which is obviously a lot better than the 7% chance of a new medication working for those of us with treatment resistant depression.
I was offered ECT but there's a huge risk of memory problems, I was told that by the psychiatrist, everyone in my team and it's in research papers. ECt is done in a different and much more humane way than it used to be but it still causes memory problems in a lot of people, some temporary, some permanent. I wish to all the best x

 

[arnxxx]

I had rTMS, saw no improvement at all but it does work for 40% of people which is obviously a lot better than the 7% chance of a new medication working for those of us with treatment resistant depression.
I was offered ECT but there's a huge risk of memory problems, I was told that by the psychiatrist, everyone in my team and it's in research papers. ECt is done in a different and much more humane way than it used to be but it still causes memory problems in a lot of people, some temporary, some permanent. I wish to all the best x

Hey there.
Too bad it didn't work out with you. How many sessions did you have? My organisation says it works on 70% but I've seen that 40 number also. I've had 22 or 23. Still very depressed. They will start on my left head side soon and maximum of 25 times before we give up.
How are you doing now?

I really don't care THAT much of the side effects. I need to recover. I've been depressed over 8 months and I keep feeling more desperate.
What did you do instead of ECT?

I'm doing deep tms not rtms
Try esketamine treatment before ECT

Whats deep tms?
I want to try esketamine but my psych wont refer me. Waiting list is half a year

 

[biasedregret]

One additional category of medication to try - MAOIs. The classic is parnate, aka tranylcypromine. You can read about it here: https://www.psychotropical.com/maoi/

 

[arnxxx]

One additional category of medication to try - MAOIs. The classic is parnate, aka tranylcypromine. You can read about it here: https://www.psychotropical.com/maoi/

I know that and I rejected them because I can't drink alcohol. Maybe they sounds egocentric but I feel best when I drink with friends or at a party. I don't drink alone and sometimes I go an entire month without alcohol. I was allowed rTMS because I tried multiple types of meds (venlafaxine, clomipramine, lithium and olanzapine) that did not work. Id rather do ECT than not being able to drink.

 

[biasedregret]

I know that and I rejected them because I can't drink alcohol. Maybe they sounds egocentric but I feel best when I drink with friends or at a party. I don't drink alone and sometimes I go an entire month without alcohol. I was allowed rTMS because I tried multiple types of meds (venlafaxine, clomipramine, lithium and olanzapine) that did not work. Id rather do ECT than not being able to drink.

Good news on that front - most types of beer don't have high levels of tyramine, which is the main culprit for interactions with MAOIs. See quote below -

As explained in the separate diet guide concerning tyramine, there is little or no issue with tyramine in alcoholic beverages, except occasional live or open-fermented beers which when drunk on an empty stomach can sometimes have enough to tyramine to provoke a reaction, although this is unlikely to be serious with ingestion as defined above.

7. MAOI ‘Flu & cold’ meds, and alcohol - PsychoTropical Research

These commentaries are based on Dr Gillman’s peer reviewed scientific papers, see Publications, Flu & cold meds and ‘over-the-counter’ medicines Avoid those in red & bold (See appendix for brand names) Cold and flu symptoms There are many over-the-counter medicines (OTC) sold for cold and flu...

www.psychotropical.com

 

[arnxxx]

Hi everyone.
Today I'll get my 27th session on the right side of my head. Still no improvement... I actually became more depressed and suicidal. After about 30 times they'll start on the left side of my head and do that 25 sessions so I'm not even half way there. Still i have little trust because it took this long already.
I could be a 'late responder' they said.

 

[johann_liebert]

How ironic this post got recommended to me, as on Monday I will have my first rtms session. But mainly for ocd and anxiety. One patient I talked about it had over 30 sessions in the span of a year and noticed..... nothing of it.

I actually became more depressed and suicidal.

That's worrisome.

 

[Guy_Smiley]

Guy Smiley: did the treatment have permanent or semi-permanent results? Did you get rid of your depression or problems?

Cat: I would like to try esketamine but my psychiatrist won't send them a letter (they need one for them to start). I just want to be on the waiting list of 6 months. My psychiatrist still thinks therapy will help.

Sorry I'm just replying to this now but I just noticed it. I never received a notification because, unless you click on the reply button, you have to tag members with an '@' (e.g. @Guy_Smiley) in order for them to be notified.

I can't say whether TMS had permanent or semi-permanent results for me because it's only been two months since I finished, but I still feel better than I did before TMS, so I think it's still having an effect. That's not to say I'm not still depressed. I am, but I'm less depressed than I was. Some people do get full remission from depression, though. One thing I should mention is that I didn't feel any effects until shortly after I had finished with all the sessions (36 in total over a nine week span). So I was a very late responder, but it happens.

In regard to esketamine, if your psychiatrist won't prescribe it for you (or they will but you don't want to have to wait for months), ketamine is a potential option. Insurance doesn't cover it, so you would need to pay for it yourself and it's not cheap, but you don't need a prescription for it. The most effective type of ketamine treatment (including esketamine) is IV infusion, which you receive at a clinic. You can also get oral ketamine which you can take at home but its bioavailability isn't as high as IV infusion and thus it isn't as effective.

Best of luck, I hope you're able to find something that works for you.

 

[arnxxx]

I have had 31 sessions now. One of them yesterday on the left side of my head. We've established that the right side doesn't respond unfortunately. 24 sessions left to go...

I have little hope this will work since so many things didn't. Medication, hospitalisations, walking, cycling, working out, meditations. I still feel like shit snd maybe even worse lately since Ive been tapering down lorazepam. Life just sucks.

This afternoon will be my 32th session. They tell me to keep my hopes up but its very very hard.

 

[divinemistress36]

Tms didn't do anything. ECT worked temporarily but came at a big cost I lost a lot of memory . I don't remember a lot of my life