Discussion Religion carries a message?

[ish]

You forgot one major thing in your definition of god, it's that it just may not exist. And i'd like to see where you get the fact that religion created civilization from. I'm pretty certain that we lived in group before we could have a clear enough collective mind to create any sort of religion. All your conclusion comes from the fact that god exist which is still highly debated and far from proven.

On the contrary, I assumed that besides what a person can experience with his senses and brain, even with help
still improved devices (specific converters to
human senses) we are not to embrace everything - the whole
Uniwersum (God) - an example of a periodic arrangement of elements
chemical - there are still empty spots on the board, a few were discovered
long after making this table. I realize that
that I am a mortal and I am at the same time transient
part of the Universe (God).

 

[Asta]

@ish So you think the whole human race is descended from just two people? Adam and Eve had children, their children had children with each other and their children's children had more children with each other? That would create an entire race of mentally challenged people caused from all that incest, as it's a scientific fact that breeding with close relatives can result in some dire consequences. Hey, maybe that's why the world is so screwed up. Ya think?? Oh, my Uniwersum! Absolute, ridiculous nonsense!! Uniwersum bless you anyway...

 

[HQTD]

And the truth is death...and having understood that is better to be dead than to be alive, and that is the the best of all not to exist...(tolstoy)
Religion is all about manipulation, although i go to church this phrase is so clear to my heart that religion or god never presented me a more sincere truth.

 

[Sunset Limited]

I do not believe that a consciousness must have a painful experience to evolve into something better. It looks like an animal training. Leaving aside everything, how does a god start by knowing that some of the people he created will eventually go to hell? "A god" who sacrifices someone to give reward and honor to others!

I believe that consciousness is actually an uncontrolled mechanism. When you bite the apple for the first time, you like it or not. Love or dislike is not your choice. All of our loved ones and dislikes are the independent variables that make up us. Since the variables are limited, it produces predictable results. Since we cannot calculate all internal and external variables, we experience the illusion of "free will". I think free will is an illusion of thinking through words. If we leave a person alone from the birth, we will see that he is no different from an animal. Because we're just imitating. The inhabitants of India are Buddhists, the Middle East is Muslim, the European is Christian, the Israelis are Jewish. Is that a coincidence? Certainly not because it works like this. I believe that free will is only possible when an organism determines its needs.

God did not create us, we created God. Because the way we perceive the universe is actually about us. Each consciousness is actually revealing itself when describing a situation. The human-god described in the holy books is the subjective manifestation of existence in our minds. If God had not yet been discovered, it would take at most one day to be discovered.

Translated by Holy Google

 

[ish]

@ish So you think the whole human race is descended from just two people? Adam and Eve had children, their children had children with each other and their children's children had more children with each other? That would create an entire race of mentally challenged people caused from all that incest, as it's a scientific fact that breeding with close relatives can result in some dire consequences. Hey, maybe that's why the world is so screwed up. Ya think?? Oh, my Uniwersum! Absolute, ridiculous nonsense!! Uniwersum bless you anyway...

I presented my position to the problem of evolution and creating a man according to Torah in the thread -The problem of understanding and imagining god.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/the-problem-of-understanding-and-imagining-god.20059/

 

[Pupuce]

On the contrary, I assumed that besides what a person can experience with his senses and brain, even with help
still improved devices (specific converters to
human senses) we are not to embrace everything - the whole
Uniwersum (God) - an example of a periodic arrangement of elements
chemical - there are still empty spots on the board, a few were discovered
long after making this table. I realize that
that I am a mortal and I am at the same time transient
part of the Universe (God).

Point to me where are the empty spots, seriously. That's just plain wrong. We have all of those who exist naturally, the only parts that could be called (wrongly) missing is the ones we have to create artificially. And stop adding the word god to everything. If it's the universe, it's not god, it's the universe. You are just baselessly assimilating something we know to exist to a fairy tale.

 

[ish]

I do not believe that a consciousness must have a painful experience to evolve into something better. It looks like an animal training. Leaving aside everything, how does a god start by knowing that some of the people he created will eventually go to hell? "A god" who sacrifices someone to give reward and honor to others!

I believe that consciousness is actually an uncontrolled mechanism. When you bite the apple for the first time, you like it or not. Love or dislike is not your choice. All of our loved ones and dislikes are the independent variables that make up us. Since the variables are limited, it produces predictable results. Since we cannot calculate all internal and external variables, we experience the illusion of "free will". I think free will is an illusion of thinking through words. If we leave a person alone from the birth, we will see that he is no different from an animal. Because we're just imitating. The inhabitants of India are Buddhists, the Middle East is Muslim, the European is Christian, the Israelis are Jewish. Is that a coincidence? Certainly not because it works like this. I believe that free will is only possible when an organism determines its needs.

God did not create us, we created God. Because the way we perceive the universe is actually about us. Each consciousness is actually revealing itself when describing a situation. The human-god described in the holy books is the subjective manifestation of existence in our minds. If God had not yet been discovered, it would take at most one day to be discovered.

Translated by Holy Google

Consciousness appears after birth and
exists to death, life consists of experience,
which the individual receives as a good or
evil, regardless of your will. This illusion of "hell and heaven"
He is in each of us, everyone judges himself.

Diversity of beliefs in the world if it exists should be
consider God's condition (Universe).
It guarantees development and progress, just like diversity
views of respondents in the discussion.

It is God (the Universe) who gave people on the path of evolution
awareness, thanks to which people learned about
His existence.

I recommend also to read my post - The problem of understanding and imagining god. link-
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/the-problem-of-understanding-and-imagining-god.20059/

Point to me where are the empty spots, seriously. That's just plain wrong. We have all of those who exist naturally, the only parts that could be called (wrongly) missing is the ones we have to create artificially. And stop adding the word god to everything. If it's the universe, it's not god, it's the universe. You are just baselessly assimilating something we know to exist to a fairy tale.

Example of empty spaces - periodic arrangement of chemical elements.

 

[calendulo]

And stop adding the word god to everything. If it's the universe, it's not god, it's the universe. You are just baselessly assimilating something we know to exist to a fairy tale.

I am agree. It is the religion hassle, adding god to everything,..............you're eating, thanks to god,.....................you're sleeping, thanks to god.
It is just an idea, I think that all currently moderns doctrines pseud-religious are worse than ultracatholics.

I have live in a Apostolic Roman Catholic country for many years, maybe too much years...........well I am living. I had a catholic subject in school for many years too...........................and I stay alive and I am not catholic, too.

Religion is like a fashion, before were two or three, right now are thousands....
c´ est la vie.

 

[Sunset Limited]

Consciousness appears after birth and
exists to death, life consists of experience,
which the individual receives as a good or
evil, regardless of your will. This illusion of "hell and heaven"
He is in each of us, everyone judges himself.

Diversity of beliefs in the world if it exists should be
consider God's condition (Universe).
It guarantees development and progress, just like diversity
views of respondents in the discussion.

It is God (the Universe) who gave people on the path of evolution
awareness, thanks to which people learned about
His existence.

I recommend also to read my post - The problem of understanding and imagining god. link-
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/the-problem-of-understanding-and-imagining-god.20059/


Example of empty spaces - periodic arrangement of chemical elements.

Anything that cannot be tested by reason, logic, experiment and observation is theoretically possible. your god is real as the sacred pasta monster. Nasreddin Hodja is a philosopher who lived in Anatolia. One day he hit his stick in the middle of the village square and said, "This is the center of the world." The villagers said, "How do you know?" . Nasreddin Hodja smiled and said, "measure if you don't believe it." At that point there is a Nasreddin Hodja statue and it says that it is the center of the world.


Translated by Holy Google

 

[Pupuce]

Anything that cannot be tested by reason, logic, experiment and observation is theoretically possible. your god is real as the sacred pasta monster. Nasreddin Hodja is a philosopher who lived in Anatolia. One day he hit his stick in the middle of the village square and said, "This is the center of the world." The villagers said, "How do you know?" . Nasreddin Hodja smiled and said, "measure if you don't believe it." At that point there is a Nasreddin Hodja statue and it says that it is the center of the world.


Translated by Holy Google

All hail the pastafarian Lord.

 

[ish]

I am agree. It is the religion hassle, adding god to everything,..............you're eating, thanks to god,.....................you're sleeping, thanks to god.
It is just an idea, I think that all currently moderns doctrines pseud-religious are worse than ultracatholics.

I have live in a Apostolic Roman Catholic country for many years, maybe too much years...........well I am living. I had a catholic subject in school for many years too...........................and I stay alive and I am not catholic, too.

Religion is like a fashion, before were two or three, right now are thousands....
c´ est la vie.

I consider religion in my reasoning
as a whole, I do not separate creeds (Judaism, Christianity,
Islam, Buddhism and others are also confessions
mythological past civilizations). Abraham - the creator of the first
the monotheism from which Judaism was founded was a nomadic nomad he saw various religious cults and came to the conclusion,
that he is directing everything. His senses and thinking constrained him
(brain). He could invent the next supreme "gods over the gods",
what would cause more chaos, he decided that ONE was
to all (the universe), he is a real god. World known
Abracham is a small territory with respect to the entire planet
which we know now, as well as the religions that existed then and these
which are now.

 

[Pupuce]

I consider religion in my reasoning
as a whole, I do not separate creeds (Judaism, Christianity,
Islam, Buddhism and others are also confessions
mythological past civilizations). Abraham - the creator of the first
the monotheism from which Judaism was founded was a nomadic nomad he saw various religious cults and came to the conclusion,
that he is directing everything. His senses and thinking constrained him
(brain). He could invent the next supreme "gods over the gods",
what would cause more chaos, he decided that ONE was
to all (the universe), he is a real god. World known
Abracham is a small territory with respect to the entire planet
which we know now, as well as the religions that existed then and these
which are now.

One man's deduction coming from a time with little to no knowledge about the functioning of the world is not valid.
If his thinking was limited, how come his conclusion is valid?
And religion never had any respect for anything outside their narrow-minded views.

 

[ish]

[QUOTE = "Pupuce, post: 381300, członek: 7210"]
Odliczenie jednego człowieka pochodzące z okresu, w którym wiedza o funkcjonowaniu świata jest niewielka lub żadna, jest nieważne.
Jeśli jego myślenie było ograniczone, to dlaczego jego wniosek jest ważny?
A religia nigdy nie szanowała niczego poza ich ograniczonymi poglądami.
[/ZACYTOWAĆ]

Mam na myśli sposób myślenia.
He is brilliant in his simplicity and does not create problems, he creates the One Parent Collection containing the element EHAD (all contradictions are in this set as subsets, angels and devils,atheism and religion)

 

[calendulo]

I consider religion in my reasoning
as a whole, I do not separate creeds (Judaism, Christianity,
Islam, Buddhism and others are also confessions
mythological past civilizations). Abraham - the creator of the first
the monotheism from which Judaism was founded was a nomadic nomad he saw various religious cults and came to the conclusion,
that he is directing everything. His senses and thinking constrained him
(brain). He could invent the next supreme "gods over the gods",
what would cause more chaos, he decided that ONE was
to all (the universe), he is a real god. World known
Abracham is a small territory with respect to the entire planet
which we know now, as well as the religions that existed then and these
which are now.

I do respect your reasoning, indeed.

As I said, since 6 until 16 I had a subject in the school and high school. I changed it by Ethic when was optional at 16.
I know everything about Catholic Religion, I never see God in classroom, I swear it.
I do not know who is Abracham, sounds medieval to me
Horses exists, cars exists, flu exists, even this forum exists..........but God does not.

 

[ish]

I do respect your reasoning, indeed.

As I said, since 6 until 16 I had a subject in the school and high school. I changed it by Ethic when was optional at 16.
I know everything about Catholic Religion, I never see God in classroom, I swear it.
I do not know who is Abracham, sounds medieval to me
Horses exists, cars exists, flu exists, even this forum exists..........but God does not.

Well, "everyone has their world" and their destiny.

 

[calendulo]

Well, "everyone has their world" and their destiny.

Yes, it has; but you are in a wrong place if you want talking about destiny.
Between me and you. many people came by here, want to die. I think that them do not care about destiny.

You have chosse a bad place to preach.

 

[ish]

Yes, it has; but you are in a wrong place if you want talking about destiny.
Between me and you. many people came by here, want to die. I think that them do not care about destiny.

You have chosse a bad place to preach.

Death is the destiny of every man, because
humanity is an everyday reality, from my observations
it follows that man is only a substitutable element of the set.
Humanity counts for God,
very few can count on special treatment.
This is very sad. News.

 

[calendulo]

Death is the destiny of every human being, for
humanity is an everyday reality, from my observations
it follows that it is really a single man for
God is only a substitutable element of the set
Humanity, very few can count on special
treatment and very sad news.

Dominus vobiscum.

Amen.

 

[ish]

NOT LIFE (LO CHAIM)
GOD, eternal rest, give me,
I trust in You and I place my hope in you.
Happy to you who are freed from worry and sorrow life.

 

[ish]

Regardless of what religion you profess or are an atheist, the more and more widely you will realize your place, role and meaning
of your existence, you come to the conclusion that the only alternative
in the face of passive waiting for death is suicide (the only one
act of free will).

 

[Pupuce]

Example of empty spaces - periodic arrangement of chemical elements.

I may have badly expressed myself on that one, that's my bad but how is the periodic table supposed to be an empty space? Or have one?

 

[ish]

[QUOTE = "Pupuce, post: 383183, członek: 7210"]
Mogłem źle wyrazić się na ten temat, to moje złe, ale w jaki sposób okresowy stół ma być pustą przestrzenią? A może masz?
[/ZACYTOWAĆ]

Cześć, naprawdę mam na myśli cały czas, sposób
myśląc, nie możemy być nawet w 100% tego pewni
znamy całą materię ziemi, nikt w niej nie był (jądro),
technologia, którą możemy wykorzystać w badaniach
niestety nas ogranicza. Problem z prognozowaniem
wyniki z linku Wikipedii -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table
częściowo - stół Mendelejewa.
Nie wiedział, ale przewidział i nie pomylił się.

 

[Pupuce]

[QUOTE = "Pupuce, post: 383183, członek: 7210"]
Mogłem źle wyrazić się na ten temat, to moje złe, ale w jaki sposób okresowy stół ma być pustą przestrzenią? A może masz?
[/ZACYTOWAĆ]

Cześć, naprawdę mam na myśli cały czas, sposób
myśląc, nie możemy być nawet w 100% tego pewni
znamy całą materię ziemi, nikt w niej nie był (jądro),
technologia, którą możemy wykorzystać w badaniach
niestety nas ogranicza. Problem z prognozowaniem
wyniki z linku Wikipedii -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table
częściowo - stół Mendelejewa.
Nie wiedział, ale przewidział i nie pomylił się.

I don't know polish so that's what i understood from google translate.
We don't have to be there to know something, and yes he knew what he was doing. Science isn't just a big lottery.
If someone doesn't know what they are doing, it's those who claim god exist without proof, not the other way around.

 

[TowerUpright]

I've written off Christianity and the Christian Bible. Mostly because of fundamental contraictions. For a book to be a source of inspired, but ultimate source of truth, it shouldnt have different statements for the same thing. I've been told by pastors to, "not dwell on the little stuff and focus on the big stuff". But if the Bible can't even get creation right, how can you expect people to buy into the rest of it??

A couple of points I have brought up:
When was the sun created?? Genesis says light was created on the first day, but the sun was created on the fourth day. ( I was told the first day was the light of Jesus) . I retort with, I thought Jesus was begotten, not made?

When were Trees made? Genesis 1 says trees were made before man. Genesis 2 says the other way around... Same with Animals, too.

What defines someone as a Christian?? The quick answer I'm given is, John 3:16. Whoever believes in Jesus is a Christian and going to heaven. My response: Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses, too? I'm replied with, "that's a long story... (Implying no). " So, it's more than John 3:16?? (Crickets)

Sorry, I get annoyed at religion and Christian faith. I admire their charitable works of late, just not their motivation.

This anger at Christianity does feed into my suicidal ideations..

 

[Now_And_Then]

I've written off Christianity and the Christian Bible. Mostly because of fundamental contraictions. For a book to be a source of inspired, but ultimate source of truth, it shouldnt have different statements for the same thing. I've been told by pastors to, "not dwell on the little stuff and focus on the big stuff". But if the Bible can't even get creation right, how can you expect people to buy into the rest of it??

A couple of points I have brought up:
When was the sun created?? Genesis says light was created on the first day, but the sun was created on the fourth day. ( I was told the first day was the light of Jesus) . I retort with, I thought Jesus was begotten, not made?

When were Trees made? Genesis 1 says trees were made before man. Genesis 2 says the other way around... Same with Animals, too.

What defines someone as a Christian?? The quick answer I'm given is, John 3:16. Whoever believes in Jesus is a Christian and going to heaven. My response: Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses, too? I'm replied with, "that's a long story... (Implying no). " So, it's more than John 3:16?? (Crickets)

Sorry, I get annoyed at religion and Christian faith. I admire their charitable works of late, just not their motivation.

This anger at Christianity does feed into my suicidal ideations..

It is not only the contradictions of the bible , but the whole logic of the existence of God him self

I saw a good quote on here the other day :



"If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to Then He is not omnipotent

If He is able, but not willing Then He is malevolent

If He is both able and willing Then whence cometh evil?

If He is neither able nor willing Then why call Him God?"

- Epicurus






I have come to the conclusion that Christianity and other early religions are the results of primitive human beings not being in the know scientifically and instead came up with , either via pure lying or pure imaginary illusions , some answers because they were desperate to know or just wanted some thing to believe in

 

[ish]

[QUOTE = "Pupuce, post: 384187, członek: 7210"]
Nie znam polskiego, więc to zrozumiałem z Google Translate.
Nie musimy tam być, żeby coś wiedzieć, i tak, wiedział, co robi. Nauka to nie tylko wielka loteria.
Jeśli ktoś nie wie, co robią, to ci, którzy twierdzą, że Bóg istnieje bez dowodów, a nie na odwrót.
[/ZACYTOWAĆ]
[QUOTE = "Pupuce, post: 384187, członek: 7210"]
I don't know polish so that's what i understood from google translate.
We don't have to be there to know something, and yes he knew what he was doing. Science isn't just a big lottery.
If someone doesn't know what they are doing, it's those who claim god exist without proof, not the other way around.

I have never undermined the achievements of science, quite the opposite. I only presented the viewt is God (the Universe,evolution and its rights) who gave people on the path of evolution awareness, thanks to which people learned about His existence.
against the view:"God did not create us, we created God. Because the way we perceive the universe is actually about us. Each consciousness is actually revealing itself when describing a situation. The human-god described in the holy books is the subjective manifestation of existence in our minds. If God had not yet been discovered, it would take at most one day to be discovered."
The problem lies in the terminology and understanding of terms.
I took Torah as the first source of reflection as the first source of monotoist religion. It is thanks to science that we know about things like the Flood written on clay tablets and other facts. The question of interpretation of the notation and its use remains.
It is thanks to science that we now know from the beginning
human civilization for a very long time religion was
inseparable from science. It is for the needs of societies
priests presented a picture of God understandable to everyone
members until they came to the concept of God's Son which not necessarily
it was a rule that everyone must know the truth. TORA written
is in such a way that one is asking to understand the record, one must
also look for analogies, subtexts, contexts etc.
In comparison - the Koran is even more a picture
obscuring the surrounding reality, it was created later than
Books of Christianity, and these later than TORA.
You can ask a rhetorical question whether someone cares about this state of affairs (the knowledge of leaders in this religious is not for the social masses)?
By the way, Cybernetics, the current definition of "science about control processes and the transfer and transformation of information in systems such as machinery, living organism, society",
definition from the 20s of the last century "cybernetics
technique of governing the country ".

I apologize for the text in Polish.
Je m'excuse pour le texte en polonais.
For those who want to learn more about the above topics, I recommend the text The problem of understanding and imagining god. at the link -
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/the-problem-of-understanding-and-imagining-god.20059/

 

[TowerUpright]

It is not only the contradictions of the bible , but the whole logic of the existence of God him self

I saw a good quote on here the other day :



"If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to Then He is not omnipotent

If He is able, but not willing Then He is malevolent

If He is both able and willing Then whence cometh evil?

If He is neither able nor willing Then why call Him God?"

- Epicurus






I have come to the conclusion that Christianity and other early religions are the results of primitive human beings not being in the know scientifically and instead came up with , either via pure lying or pure imaginary illusions , some answers because they were desperate to know or just wanted some thing to believe in

I can imagine a conversation with some Evangelicals I know who would simply return, "Well, God's will is not our will. Our job is to simply worship him and do his work on Earth."

It's a cop-out sure. But most Evangelicals have little recourse if they question their faith. Try getting a job in a smaller Southern town if you quit going to the local Baptist Church.

 

[ish]

I can imagine a conversation with some Evangelicals I know who would simply return, "Well, God's will is not our will. Our job is to simply worship him and do his work on Earth."

It's a cop-out sure. But most Evangelicals have little recourse if they question their faith. Try getting a job in a smaller Southern town if you quit going to the local Baptist Church.

This is social pressure to live by the rules of the local community, there are two alternatives - to adapt or find another community. That's how it works. The individual is in the group, the one in the community, the one in turn in society etc.
God works all the time, we evaluate his actions individually
as good or bad towards us.

 

[ish]

Annex
Humanity experiences the existence of a god through consciousness (mind).
The vast majority of humanity believe in god (in general).
We have a specific facts state
of which it is such that the vast majority people of "God exists."
Even atheists have consciousness (mind).

 

[Kirkscoobz]

The message is 2 simple words /

Delusion
Hysteria

Plain and simple.