N

nolifer

Member
Dec 25, 2020
97
That's what euthanasia clinics were designed for, they are there to hasten death for the terminally ill. Unfortunately mental illness isn't considered terminal.
Euthanasia is a step in the right direction, but it should have looser requirements. Lets say you have a heart attack, people rarely die from their first heart attack, but chances are statistically very high that you will have more heart attacks until one of them kills you. However, there is also a chance you can successfully treat your heart disease and prolong your life a significant amount of years, but eventually you will have to face the pain anyway.

I think people should have right to euthanasia no matter what. Because in most cases you can't really know when you will have your first heart attack. Lets say you're 25 y.o., that could be considered a good time to ctb because heart attacks happen often enough, even at age 30+. Or if you're 35, then you might feel even more reason to ctb because by each few years you get older, your chance of having an heart attack increases.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spitfire
Deleted member 94

Deleted member 94

Wizard
Mar 24, 2018
696
Euthanasia is a step in the right direction, but it should have looser requirements. Lets say you have a heart attack, people rarely die from their first heart attack, but chances are statistically very high that you will have more heart attacks until one of them kills you. However, there is also a chance you can successfully treat your heart disease and prolong your life a significant amount of years, but eventually you will have to face the pain anyway.

I think people should have right to euthanasia no matter what. Because in most cases you can't really know when you will have your first heart attack. Lets say you're 25 y.o., that could be considered a good time to ctb because heart attacks happen often enough, even at age 30+. Or if you're 35, then you might feel even more reason to ctb because by each few years you get older, your chance of having an heart attack increases.
Not good enough reason I know a fellow who had 17 heart attacks and is still alive and kicking, it has to be like pancreatic cancer which when you get there's no going back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: adam&eve
H

Hoarsewithnoname

Member
Dec 4, 2020
19
If I set you on fire besides a swimming pool and you jump into it... How irrational of you! Have you ever tried enjoying a good book a film and time with friends and family whilst on fire? I am sure being on fire is not remotely distracting or undermines the experience. If I poke you with a pointy stick I am sure you will move away from the pointy stick. If you tell yourself hard enough that a pointy stick is not a pointy stick then I am sure it won't be so pointy. Life is full of pointy sticks and things that can set you on fire. If you poke a cat with a pointy stick and it runs away how very irrational of it. Medicate that cat immediately! Who knew escaping pain was so irrational it's almost like we have bodies and brains structured around the concept of moving out of and away from pain.

The problem isn't if it is rational or irrational. The problem is the failure to remove causes of pain in the first place. If a person cannot remove that source of pain then it seems rational to me to escape it. It won't be viewed that way though because psychiatry dominates the discussion who frame suicide as a symptom of mental disorder. So there is little in the way of study on rational suicide. So no proper discussion is really had. So little ground is gained on humane responses to pain and the desire to escape it. Even less effort is made to reduce causes of pain when it comes to societies role in it. Instead it is often individualised and made out to be you at fault for not being okay with being on fire. The truth of this is mirrored when people then imply you just are not trying hard enough or not appreciating the wonder of existence or point out people who are on worse fire than you. Bit hard to appreciate much when on fire, it's just an invisible fire and so our true needs become invisible too. What is rarely realised is the fight to keep going on whilst on fire, especially when avenues to put out that fire have been exhausted. I am tired of being on fire and having to pretend otherwise. Seems rational to me to want to put myself out.
Thank you so much for so clearly putting into words the general feelings I've been having. I just haven't managed to articulate them this well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: adam&eve, Life is pointless and sadworld
Captive of Mind

Captive of Mind

Memento mori
Aug 11, 2020
409
I feel as if most suicides are rational?
none of us asked to be born and put on this earth in the various situations that we see ourselves in. I see choosing to opt out of this life that we were given without consent a rational idea, IMO.
I feel that it is only illegal to do so because the capitalist society we lives in needs our labor and our consumption to keep the cycle going.
It's not only that. They have to care about how it affects the living more than what it would do for the person who suicides. People value how it affects the people around you more than you ending your own suffering. The living are still playing the game so that holds more value.

It is so hard wired into our brain to not want death that it causes a huge impact on people even if it's reasonable to die. Even though we have no obligation to be here because we didn't ask to be here in the first place, people are wired to have an emotional reaction. Just because most people want to live in this strange world doesn't mean that everyone should be forced to take part in it. We should have full autonomy over whether we want to or not, so that we don't have tons of people attempting multiple times over the span of many years. Come to grips with the fact that some people don't have to live.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: ithappens, it's_all_a_game, sweater and 2 others
L

Lorraine

Member
Nov 19, 2020
32
My suicide will be completely rational, and I have planned it for some time. I have had a loaded gun beside me for months, so I am clearly not impulsive. I just wanted to get the gun purchase done and learn how to load it, etc. Get used to the feel of it, handle it safely, and experiment with the aim in my mouth. Much of this is a matter of logistics for me, at this point. I do not want to fail nor do I want to unintentionally harm someone else.
I have determined it is time for me to go. I am the only one who has lived my life. I have, quite intentionally for years, ensured that no one is "depending" on me for anything. I am responsible for nothing, at this point, other than my own life.
There is no one else who will ever understand just where I'm at. And that is fine. None of us will ever understand just where someone else's head is. It really is not our business.
Respectfully,
Lorraine
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Hugs
  • Love
Reactions: Journeytoletgo, it's_all_a_game, Arvinneedstodie and 5 others
D

DrWh033

Student
Dec 23, 2020
129
If I set you on fire besides a swimming pool and you jump into it... How irrational of you! Have you ever tried enjoying a good book a film and time with friends and family whilst on fire? I am sure being on fire is not remotely distracting or undermines

My suicide will be completely rational, and I have planned it for some time. I have had a loaded gun beside me for months, so I am clearly not impulsive. I just wanted to get the gun purchase done and learn how to load it, etc. Get used to the feel of it, handle it safely, and experiment with the aim in my mouth. Much of this is a matter of logistics for me, at this point. I do not want to fail nor do I want to unintentionally harm someone else.
I have determined it is time for me to go. I am the only one who has lived my life. I have, quite intentionally for years, ensured that no one is "depending" on me for anything. I am responsible for nothing, at this point, other than my own life.
There is no one else who will ever understand just where I'm at. And that is fine. None of us will ever understand just where someone else's head is. It really is not our business.
Respectfully,
Lorraine
True. Though our heads are far closer to each other than you think. Good call with the gun. Unfortunately handguns are not a solution in Europe. You seem like a mature personality that knows exactly how and why you have decided to ctb.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pthnrdnojvsc
Life is pointless

Life is pointless

Member
Dec 18, 2020
37
Life in itself isnt rational because we are literally being forced into this world without our consent and forced to live without the right to die, this means we are slaves to the system till natural death occurs or till we decide to ctb and stop being a slave to the system .
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scribble Fan, it's_all_a_game, nolifer and 2 others
L

Lorraine

Member
Nov 19, 2020
32
True. Though our heads are far closer to each other than you think. Good call with the gun. Unfortunately handguns are not a solution in Europe. You seem like a mature personality that knows exactly how and why you have decided to ctb.
I am exactly that. Thank you for recognizing it.
As for handguns, I am fortunate to live where I do, I suppose. But, it is sad how easy it was for me to acquire a handgun when I cannot so easily acquire quality mental health care. Not so sure if that's a win, but it is my reality. And definitely something I will write about before I go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Life is pointless
D

DrWh033

Student
Dec 23, 2020
129
Life in itself isnt rational because we are literally being forced into this world without our consent and forced to live without the right to die, this means we are slaves to the system till natural death or till we decide to ctb and stop being a slave to the system .
Life can be wonderful and nightmarish. It is all a lottery roll. There is no system, no "capitalism" that exploits our labour, no oppressor and other faerie tales. Just the absurdity of existence in all its randomness
 
N

nolifer

Member
Dec 25, 2020
97
Life can be wonderful and nightmarish. It is all a lottery roll. There is no system, no "capitalism" that exploits our labour, no oppressor and other faerie tales. Just the absurdity of existence in all its randomness
Even if you have a relatively wonderful life, it's still worse than not being born in the first place. Because you are guaranteed to experience suffering even if you have the best of the best lives. And if you don't exist then you don't have a consciousness to be capable of feeling or thinking that you're missing out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Life is pointless
Sprite_Geist

Sprite_Geist

NULL
May 27, 2020
1,584
Looking more closely, perhaps it's also a philosophical question of what "rational" and less "rational"/impulsively mean. Someone who ends their life ends their life - for whatever reason. For them, the reason is probably legitimate. To outsiders, perhaps not. Is it irrational for someone to end themselves because they have just been abandoned by their partner? I cannot answer this question.

This is an interesting take. There is still a much that we do not know about the human brain and its inner-workings, or at what point in an organisms development does it take on "consciousness".

Some would argue that a person who wishes to undergo euthanasia is "not thinking straight", but how can we define what is and is not a wrong frame of mind when we do not completely know what the mind is?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ithappens, Life is pointless and http-410
W

Wisdom3_1-9

he/him/his
Jul 19, 2020
1,954
All suicides are rational. You're just choosing a quick death over a prolonged one.
I had a problem with this upon my initial reading, but as I think about it, I believe it's absolutely correct. I've always been a proponent of rational suicides and have objected to society implications that for someone to want to commit suicide, they must not be thinking clearly. I spend my day making rational, informed decisions that no one ever questions and people believe that I'm the expert in. Why on earth would they think my assessment of this particular situation is any different? My initial problem with the statement was the idea that I do think some people come to the decision rather hastily or perhaps in a temporary state of intense emotion. While I believe that in such cases, the desire to ctb may pass and that a wiser decision may be to let things play out and see if and how life could improve, it doesn't make the decision "irrational." The person was experiencing pain and sought to end it.

If I set you on fire besides a swimming pool and you jump into it... How irrational of you!
I didn't quote the whole response, but it was brilliant in its entirety. Thank you for posting.

tbh, i don't know why many people dream about longevity so much. it's a nightmare
There has always been a human obsession with longevity, one I have never understood. I used to "joke" with my colleagues and friends that I planned on dying at 50. I'd retire at 48 having accomplished everything I wanted, and then spend the next two years re-visiting my favorite cities, before dying on my 50th birthday. They thought it was a joke, which enabled me to talk about it openly, but really it was an ambition for me. My mother is not "old" by today's standards. She's 70. She was a college professor before retiring last yer and yet I see her facilities fading. Her body is in poor health and she walks with a cane often. The number of meds she takes to help her get through the day, or to eat certain foods... how is this the life that someone would want after having worked so hard and accomplished so much? But yet, this is what people seem to want. I don't get it. Maybe I'm just wired differently.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ithappens
P

patheticpartner

Student
May 4, 2020
100
To me, suicide is very rational. The only time I find it irrational is when it goes into cult territory, like in the Heaven's Gate cult where people happily committed suicide because they thought they were aliens who were leaving their human vessels and going back to their spacecraft. Sorry, but that's actual insanity
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: Dead Meat, ithappens, lobster salad and 1 other person
B

Buffy5120

Death is vital
Mar 19, 2020
614
Most ppl just see suicides as a negative thing and they don't care if it's rational or irrational. I do think rational suicides exist, you give recovery a chance, it doesn't work and you just feel hopeless and want to end it.

ppl just don't understand that a suicide is not negative and that it's an escape from suffering, it's freeing. They don't get it, they don't want to lose you and are selfish
mood GIF
 
  • Hugs
  • Love
  • Like
Reactions: Bullit, Nymph and mimiopo22
Divine Trinity

Divine Trinity

Pugna Vigil
Mar 20, 2019
310
My late thoughts on the topic:

In an honest discussion do we talk about rational or irrational reason to get an abortion? Civilized societies, and I use that term strictly, recognize women seeking to abort pregnancies only do so reluctantly and/or with good reason and so it's considered a basic procedure.

Regardless of how "small" the underlying issue may seem, if society is unable or unwilling to expend the resources to improve people's lives dysfunction, including ctb, is as natural a consequence as a sharpened blade drawing blood.
 
Bullit

Bullit

Mage
May 6, 2021
504
On YouTube there is a Yale course on the rationality of suicide taught by a guy named Shelley Kagan. Its long and dense,(he talks about philosophy),but I sometimes listen to small parts of it from time to that are interesting.
In essence,he says suicide can be viewed as rational if our calculation of the future sees much suffering and little goodness. He maintains that when we die,we have no soul,no afterlife,were just physical beings,and if the quality of life is very low,it is rational to consider ending it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nolifer, noname223 and unperson
eternalmelancholy

eternalmelancholy

waiting for the bus
Mar 24, 2021
1,169
All suicides are rational because your life belongs to you and only you. Whatever reason or decision you have to ctb is valid and enough.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nolifer, yive, pthnrdnojvsc and 5 others
death137

death137

miserable
Jun 25, 2020
1,166
I hate it when ppl categorize some reasons worthy of suicide and some not. All suicides are rational to me. I also think there shouldn't be any age restriction.
 
  • Like
  • Hugs
  • Love
Reactions: ithappens, nolifer, Bleh and 5 others
J

Jean Améry

Enlightened
Mar 17, 2019
1,098
This question is worth a whole book and it has been the subject of intense debate in moral philosophy. Since I can hardly write a book here the short answer is that if individual well-being is negative (more negative life experiences than positive ones factoring in the 'weight' of those experiences), this can't be remedied in a for the concerned individual acceptabel way and the suicide is not unduly painful it would follow said suicide is indeed rational.

The rub of course lies in being able to objectively assess one's situation and this could often pose a problem given that humans aren't primarily rational creatures (which is ironically why we have persisted up till now inspite of everything) and prone to emotions clouding one's judgement.

Which is why it would be better if humane suicide were legal under the condition that it'd be rational: if others could safely be consulted there'd be a much higher chance it wouldn't be a spur-of-the-moment thing and the assessment would indeed be rational. If that is the case the ethical and humane thing to do is to provide painless means so the individual doesn't have to suffer needlessly.

Of course society's standard for rationality (reflected in the supposed social and medical sciences that study suicide) is that of a robot without any emotions whatsoever whose sole aim is the well-being of others. Which usually means suicide is only considered 'rational' if the individual is no longer of any use to society, e.g. terminally ill.

As to mental illness: while it's possible irrational thoughts are clouding the issue long-standing mental illness that can't be cured or at least treated to the point of making life worth living again for the individual is an undoubted source of oftentimes extreme pain making wanting to escape it (provided the disorder in question cannot be remedied) pretty rational imo.

It's a myth that suicide always involves mental illness (as confirmed by the World Health Organization: https://www.who.int/mental_health/suicide-prevention/myths.pdf, page 4): sometimes people are in objectively very bad situations that they can't get out of except by taking their own life. Misantrophe's fire metaphor is very apt indeed.

In summary: yes I do think rational suicides exist and probably occur much more frequently than society acknowledges. There are probably a multitude of reasons for this but some of the main ones would certainly be that society needs contributing members and one of the most important functions of society is to provide meaning to the life of its members and a mental barrier to death which is usually feared above all else.

In a way suicide oftentimes indicates failure of society especially in social, medical and economic situations that could have been reasonably remedied. There's no good reason for poverty to still exist in affluent societies (a major source of suicide one would assume): that it still does is because society apparently deems it necessary that certain individuals need to be as rich as the ocean is deep (beyond all reason) and it doesn't matter if this is at the expense of many others who lead materially horrible lives.

In short: imo society is largely immoral and does not have real moral authority to legislate against suicide. That it still can is clearly due to the fact that the majority of people are somehow content with this situation although they probably don't really comprehend it untill they are placed in a very adverse situation which awakens the desire for non-existence.
 
  • Love
  • Like
Reactions: nex and noname223
motel rooms

motel rooms

Survivor of incest. Gay. Please don't PM me.
Apr 13, 2021
7,086
Of course there are clearly rational suicides, but there are also irrational ones. A lot of people on here seem to be incapable of nuanced thinking. Yes, I know our lives stink, but that doesn't mean that it's valid to claim it's rational for a kid who got bullied a couple of times or a person who got moderately depressed to immediately go for the nuclear option. Don't be fascists like certain radical pro-lifers...
 
  • Like
Reactions: deepinlimbo, nex and Jean Améry
TheAmazingCriswell

TheAmazingCriswell

I predict...
Apr 28, 2021
1,351
Yes, I know our lives stink, but that doesn't mean that it's valid to claim it's rational for a kid who got bullied a couple of times or a person who got moderately depressed to immediately go for the nuclear option.
Why?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bleh, Journeytoletgo, demuic and 1 other person
FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Just wanting some peace
Sep 24, 2020
37,016
I think when someone is suffering every day with no relief and no hope of getting better then wanting to die is rational. Society disregards this with people not having an peaceful method to opt out of life if it gets unbearable. Many people see suicide as irrational as it goes against our very nature as humans, to survive and that is what we are programmed to do. Society insists on long lives regardless of quality.

Life is meaningless anyway, our only purpose is death so there is a certain level of rationality to not wanting to be here as staying alive is just delaying the inevitable. Suicidal thoughts are often an result of being trapped in a situation we cannot get out of and it is our way of regaining control over a life we did not choose. Some suicides may be impulsive but for many it is a well thought out decision.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Passersby, Journeytoletgo, Bullit and 2 others
N

noname223

Angelic
Aug 18, 2020
4,958
I think my suicide will be a rational one. And that's kind of important to me. I don't want to throw away life. I want to try what I wanted to try and don't want to be responsible in the end if it comes to this outcome. I have not done any severe mistakes till now. I tried a lot and almost everthing failed. My future is not hard to predict 2 psychologists think I gonna ctb due to poverty. I am mentally ill and I will probably have severe depression when I will finally do it. But even when I barely have depression like today I know I want to go the next time the psychosomatic pain returns.
Yes I truely think a rational suicide existseven if people suffer from depression or other mental conditions. I tried a lot of treatment my problems still cannot be fixed. The government still would not allow assisted suicide for me. Thanks conservative assholes!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jean Améry
R

RottenApple

Loneliness is not a phase
Dec 7, 2020
63
In a secular or agnostic context, the only objective thing about human existence is that we are animals with big brains, all the rest is mainly just poetry to convince ourselves that we are some kind of supernatural beings or that we are different from the rest of animals.

In that context, to assume that suicide is always an irrational option is a very naive approach. Obviously, there is a large range, and there are people that have temporary problems that can be fixed, but I'm sure that an important percentage of people that commit suicide are totally aware of their decision and see it as rational.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eternalmelancholy and Jean Améry
J

Jean Améry

Enlightened
Mar 17, 2019
1,098
All suicides are rational because your life belongs to you and only you. Whatever reason or decision you have to ctb is valid and enough.

There is no logical connection between the concept of self-ownership and the question of whether or not it'd be prudent/rational to kill oneself in a given situation. People make stupid, illogical, ill-informed, purely emotional decisions all the time. Often they themselves even recognise this after the fact. Why would suicide always be a rational decision and thus the sole exception to human behaviour?

I think you're confusing the morality of suicide (is it morally permissible/right or wrong to kill oneself?) and its rationality. There is a case to be made that priority ought to be given to individual autonomy and everyone ought therefore have the legal right to kill themselves regardless of whether it'd constitute a rational decision or not. That however does not prove all suicides are rational.

Even to a libertarian the notion that the individual is the sole arbiter of their own life should be questionable in the case of parents who voluntarily made children and are therefore responsible for them. In that case that individual's life belongs at least in part to the child (at least untill they can fend for themselves). One might even argue it belongs primarily to that child since he/she did not ask to be born so the least it can reasonably expect of its parent is unconditional love which transcends egoism and egocentrism.

Clearly there are rational and irrational suicides just like every other decision can be made rationally or irrationally. I don't buy into the popular notion that being suicidal implies that one must necessarily be irrational but clearly there are many situations in which suicide is a spur of the moment decision which isn't the product of a clear-headed assessment of the situation.

Imagine someone whose girlfriend left him a cryptic message which he interprets as 'she's going to leave me' and he kills himself because he can't imagine life without her while she in fact did not want to leave him at all which would make his reason moot. He therefore died for absolutely nothing. Surely you'll admit suicide would not be rational in this case?

How can it ever be considered rational to burn oneself to death and thus inflict the greatest pain upon oneself when humans are biologically and psychologically programmed to avoid pain? What possible purpose would such a nightmarish death serve (political protest aside) aslong as there are other, less painful and gruesome means? Which there realistically speaking will pretty much always be: even jumping in front of a train would make more sense than that.

How can it be rational for a pilot to fly a plane full of passengers into a mountain just because he wants to die?
 
  • Like
Reactions: nex
J

Jean Améry

Enlightened
Mar 17, 2019
1,098
I think my suicide will be a rational one. And that's kind of important to me. I don't want to throw away life. I want to try what I wanted to try and don't want to be responsible in the end if it comes to this outcome. I have not done any severe mistakes till now. I tried a lot and almost everthing failed. My future is not hard to predict 2 psychologists think I gonna ctb due to poverty. I am mentally ill and I will probably have severe depression when I will finally do it. But even when I barely have depression like today I know I want to go the next time the psychosomatic pain returns.
Yes I truely think a rational suicide existseven if people suffer from depression or other mental conditions. I tried a lot of treatment my problems still cannot be fixed. The government still would not allow assisted suicide for me. Thanks conservative assholes!

I'm sorry you had to suffer so much and nothing worked out. It's not up to me to determine whether or not your suicide would be rational (nor can I really) but I think it should be understandable to most people given your situation. Of course the decision is and remains yours and yours alone.

That wanting to die when one has a mental illness can be rational is recognised in those countries where euthanasia for incurable mental suffering is legal. If a doctor is willing to execute the euthanasia and he/she and at least one colleague agree that the condition is indeed beyond medical help clearly they think the wish to die is rational under those circumstances.

I get your frustration at politicians who think they can impose their values (oftentimes they're not even real but merely propaganda in order to get elected or re-elected) on others. The very idea of the pseudo-argument of 'moral majority' is abhorrent to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: blue_muse and noname223
eternalmelancholy

eternalmelancholy

waiting for the bus
Mar 24, 2021
1,169
Imagine someone whose girlfriend left him a cryptic message which he interprets as 'she's going to leave me' and he kills himself because he can't imagine life without her while she in fact did not want to leave him at all which would make his reason moot. He therefore died for absolutely nothing. Surely you'll admit suicide would not be rational in this case?

It is not up to me or you to decide whether someone's suicide is rational. Only the individual can make that decision. If someone commits suicide for whatever reason it was justified from their point of view.

How can it be rational for a pilot to fly a plane full of passengers into a mountain just because he wants to die?

The lives of the passengers are not his to take. Only his life is in his hands.

As for some of your other statements I am not sure why you are giving extremely exaggerated scenarios in an attempt to prove your point. That is just seeking confirmation bias instead of engaging in open dialog. For someone who calls themselves 'Enlightened' I find your attempt to overwhelm others into submission by sheer volume of text very perplexing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nolifer, Bleh and pthnrdnojvsc
TheAmazingCriswell

TheAmazingCriswell

I predict...
Apr 28, 2021
1,351
Why am I wrong?
Where do you draw the line for what constitutes too much bullying or too much depression? Why shouldn't one go for the option that is guaranteed to eliminate all problems?
Imagine someone whose girlfriend left him a cryptic message which he interprets as 'she's going to leave me' and he kills himself because he can't imagine life without her while she in fact did not want to leave him at all which would make his reason moot. He therefore died for absolutely nothing.
He will die for nothing either way, if he kills himself or not. He will also live for nothing.
How can it ever be considered rational to burn oneself to death and thus inflict the greatest pain upon oneself when humans are biologically and psychologically programmed to avoid pain? What possible purpose would such a nightmarish death serve (political protest aside) aslong as there are other, less painful and gruesome means? Which there realistically speaking will pretty much always be: even jumping in front of a train would make more sense than that.
How can it be rational for a pilot to fly a plane full of passengers into a mountain just because he wants to die?
These are not examples for irrational suicides, but merely for irrational methods. The irrationality of the chosen method does not compromise the rationality of the death wish.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bleh, Journeytoletgo, pthnrdnojvsc and 1 other person
eternalmelancholy

eternalmelancholy

waiting for the bus
Mar 24, 2021
1,169
This is not an example for an irrational suicide, but merely for an irrational method. The irrationality of the chosen method does not compromise the rationality of the death wish.

I do not understand his argument either. If you come to a conclusion first and then try to justify it, the argument will not make sense. Or maybe I am too stupid to understand what he is trying to say.
 

Similar threads