Question for people who believe in God.

[3AM]

If you're religious, then why don't you feel helped by your God? Why don't your God and religion make you feel better and more comfortable?

 

[qualityOV3Rquantity]

I'm a Christian. My faith does make me feel better about my life and my problems. I wont pretend I have all the answers, but I think part of having faith means believing even despite not having absolute proof or full understanding of something. I'm willing to answer any other questions you might have!

 

[KillingPain267]

All bad things are a result of the sins of man. Look at the destruction we cause nature and each other. My anxiety and depression are a direct result of how humans have treated me. It's not God's fault. God took a step back and let us go rogue due to free will. He wants us to repent and turn to Him by CHOICE and love. To allow for that, we also have a choice to do bad though and boy do we abuse that choice. But it's only for a while. There will be an end when Jesus returns and all will be judged. After that, those who trusted Christ as Savior will rise again in a body without sorrow, sin, pain and death to live on a restored earth and universe. I hope the world ends soon. It seems we are nearing the end.

 

[chester]

All bad things are a result of the sins of man.

Are you saying that children getting leukemia or earthquakes killing hundreds of people are caused by sin? How? Or are you saying they're not bad? I'm just curious what's the logic behind this statement, because I struggle to see any.

 

[Mirrory Me]

There is also some dark forces that can linger on people, they call them Satans.

 

[3AM]

All bad things are a result of the sins of man. Look at the destruction we cause nature and each other. My anxiety and depression are a direct result of how humans have treated me. It's not God's fault. God took a step back and let us go rogue due to free will. He wants us to repent and turn to Him by CHOICE and love. To allow for that, we also have a choice to do bad though and boy do we abuse that choice. But it's only for a while. There will be an end when Jesus returns and all will be judged. After that, those who trusted Christ as Savior will rise again in a body without sorrow, sin, pain and death to live on a restored earth and universe. I hope the world ends soon. It seems we are nearing the end.

Did you cause destruction and harm to nature and others? If not then why are you suffering?


I'm agnostic, and trying to figure out what God really is, but it seems like religious system is very broken and it's all about 'JUST ACCEPT WITHOUT QUESTIONS'.





@qualityOV3Rquantity

 

[KillingPain267]

Are you saying that children getting leukemia or earthquakes killing hundreds of people are caused by sin? How? Or are you saying they're not bad? I'm just curious what's the logic behind this statement, because I struggle to see any.

Yes, the Bible says death and suffering (even on animals) in general came by Adam and Eve sinning. They plunged us all into suffering and the laws of physics must have changed allowing for decay and chaos (like random mutations, random shifts in earth crusts, random weather patterns) like a chain reaction.

Romans 5:12: "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

Romans 8:22: "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now."

Here's an analogy:
Imagine a home with a father and his 20 year old son and 18 year old daughter. The father has a greenhouse where he grows mushrooms, and one mushroom is toxic. He tells his kids to never even touch that mushroom and puts warning signs. But then his kids decide to ignore it and eat the mushroom. Now they develop brain damage and DNA changes affecting them for life and even affecting their subsequent generation genetically. Somehow the mushroom also ruins the whole house of that father because the skin of his children sheds toxic mold affecting the walls. It would not be the father's fault, because he explicitly commanded not to eat of that mushroom.

Sin affects others, not just the sinner himself. For example, bullying (the sin of hate) can cause permanent trauma and depression in the victim. Infidelity may or may not directly give an STD in the cheater, but it also affects the cheated spouse, and is now recognized to cause PTSD-like symptoms. Getting drunk often (a sin) may give liver damage to the drunkard, but it also increases the risk of hurting others by drunk driving or domestic violence.

A person randomly getting hit by a drunk driver did not get punished by God for some sin, no, it's the drunk driver who caused it. Likewise, children randomly getting cancer mutations is a result of the chain reaction Adam and Eve caused by disobeying God.

By the way, studies show that things like radiation exposure can increase risk of childhood leukemia. Japanese atomic bomb survivors had a greatly increased risk of developing AML. Did God say to drop atomic bombs? No, it's America's fault and those pilots who dropped them.

One paper called Childhood Leukemia: A Preventable Disease by Catherine Metayer, MD, PhD, et al. says that exposures to solvents, traffic, pesticides, and tobacco smoke have consistently demonstrated positive associations with the risk of developing childhood leukemia. Pesticides were not created by God but by humans who wanted to maximize profits from agriculture (the sin of greed). Tobacco smoke is caused by the parents who did not care about keeping the body clean and healthy, not by God. God didn't tell us to light up toxic substances and inhale them.

Did you cause destruction and harm to nature and others? If not then why are you suffering?

Oh I definitely have a carbon footprint, have wasted food, littered, ignored the homeless beggars too much, and much more. But most of my suffering is caused by the sin of others, not God. Trauma from bullies (the sin of hate), left by my ex (the sin of divorce). My inborn physical deformity and pain was caused by the chain reaction of chaos and death set in motion by the original sin of Adam and Eve. Or, there may actually be a chance that the disaster and negligence of the Chernobyl meltdown caused genetic mutations in my mother that then passed to me. Did God create atomic radiation poisoning? No, it was human error and negligence in safety.

I'm agnostic, and trying to figure out what God really is, but it seems like religious system is very broken and it's all about 'JUST ACCEPT WITHOUT QUESTIONS'.

No, genuine questions are not discouraged, at least not in the Bible itself. It even commands Christians to give answers and explain things.

1 Peter 3:15: "...be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you..."

But often it's mockers and scoffers who come with foolish questions and no matter what you say, they will dismiss the answers.

 

[Hollowman]

Yes, the Bible says death and suffering (even on animals) in general came by Adam and Eve sinning. They plunged us all into suffering and the laws of physics must have changed allowing for decay and chaos (like random mutations, random shifts in earth crusts, random weather patterns) like a chain reaction.

Romans 5:12: "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

Romans 8:22: "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now."

Here's an analogy:
Imagine a home with a father and his 20 year old son and 18 year old daughter. The father has a greenhouse where he grows mushrooms, and one mushroom is toxic. He tells his kids to never even touch that mushroom and puts warning signs. But then his kids decide to ignore it and eat the mushroom. Now they develop brain damage and DNA changes affecting them for life and even affecting their subsequent generation genetically. Somehow the mushroom also ruins the whole house of that father because the skin of his children sheds toxic mold affecting the walls. It would not be the father's fault, because he explicitly commanded not to eat of that mushroom.

Sin affects others, not just the sinner himself. For example, bullying (the sin of hate) can cause permanent trauma and depression in the victim. Infidelity may or may not directly give an STD in the cheater, but it also affects the cheated spouse, and is now recognized to cause PTSD-like symptoms. Getting drunk often (a sin) may give liver damage to the drunkard, but it also increases the risk of hurting others by drunk driving or domestic violence.

A person randomly getting hit by a drunk driver did not get punished by God for some sin, no, it's the drunk driver who caused it. Likewise, children randomly getting cancer mutations is a result of the chain reaction Adam and Eve caused by disobeying God.

By the way, studies show that things like radiation exposure can increase risk of childhood leukemia. Japanese atomic bomb survivors had a greatly increased risk of developing AML. Did God say to drop atomic bombs? No, it's America's fault and those pilots who dropped them.

One paper called Childhood Leukemia: A Preventable Disease by Catherine Metayer, MD, PhD, et al. says that exposures to solvents, traffic, pesticides, and tobacco smoke have consistently demonstrated positive associations with the risk of developing childhood leukemia. Pesticides were not created by God but by humans who wanted to maximize profits from agriculture (the sin of greed). Tobacco smoke is caused by the parents who did not care about keeping the body clean and healthy, not by God. God didn't tell us to light up toxic substances and inhale them.

Oh I definitely have a carbon footprint, have wasted food, littered, ignored the homeless beggars too much, and much more. But most of my suffering is caused by the sin of others, not God. Trauma from bullies (gothe sin of hate), left by my ex (the sin of divorce). My inborn physical deformity and pain was caused by the chain reaction of chaos and death set in motion by the original sin of Adam and Eve. Or, there may actually be a chance that the disaster and negligence of the Chernobyl meltdown caused genetic mutations in my mother that then passed to me. Did God create atomic radiation poisoning? No, it was human error and negligence in safety.

god didn't tell us anything.

 

[KillingPain267]

There is also some dark forces that can linger on people, they call them Satans.

That reddit post was made by a person who obviously hasn't studied anything and is just asking foolish mocking questions in ignorance. Typical redditor.

 

[JoysoftheEmptiness]

I have a religion, I practice it everyday, I think all the suffering I go through is a test, sadly, I haven't won the tests God has put me through, massive failure I am, I'm still here, I visited my ex-girlfriend last Friday, at the funeral home, she was in her coffin, I held her hand, and kissed her forehead, why God has done this to her, or me, or her family is beyond me, but I still believe in Him, I've been making my peace with Him. I'm ready to go home.

god didn't tell us anything.

Chavah sinned, and enticed Adam to sin, that's how sin entered the world.

 

[Hollowman]

I have a religion, I practice it everyday, I think all the suffering I go through is a test, sadly, I haven't won the tests God has put me through, massive failure I am, I'm still here, I visited my ex-girlfriend last Friday, at the funeral home, she was in her coffin, I held her hand, and kissed her forehead, why God has done this to her, or me, or her family is beyond me, but I still believe in Him, I've been making my peace with Him. I'm ready to go home.

Chavah sinned, and enticed Adam to sin, that's how sin entered the world.

If you say so it must be so, unfortunately there's no real evidence adam and eve ever existed.

 

[-nobodyknows-]

I don't have a good answer for this. Perhaps it is simply a part of a giant cosmic choose your own adventure game, and certain things need to play out this way in order for a certain ending to be reached.

 

[KillingPain267]

Are you saying that children getting leukemia or earthquakes killing hundreds of people are caused by sin? How?

By the way, humans can also induce earthquakes. Industrial activities such as geothermal energy production, fracking for oil and natural gas, and wastewater disposal can all lead to increased seismic activity that commonly takes the form of earthquakes. Look it up.

 

[asa]

If you're religious, then why don't you feel helped by your God? Why don't your God and religion make you feel better and more comfortable?

My God and religion do make me feel better and more comfortable, but ultimately, God can only guide those who wish to be guided.

 

[nihilistic_dragon]

I am ex religious now. But when I was religious, it was simply the confirmation bias or perhaps even the cognitive dissonance that I had. If you believe in something then you will always look for confirmation solidifying your beliefs, no matter what. You can explain anything really, no matter how ridiculous it sounds, because of this bias.

 

[Praying 4 a Miracle]

I am also a Christian, and I believe that an eternity in heaven with God will make all of our suffering on Earth seem much less significant. Eternity will make our time on Earth seem like the blank of an eye.

 

[Mirrory Me]

That reddit post was made by a person who obviously hasn't studied anything and is just asking foolish mocking questions in ignorance. Typical redditor.
View attachment 151910

Sorry, but I was just referring to the meaning of the word, which was explained in the post. It basically explains the nature and origin of this energy. which is very true. It can live inside people's psyches and beyond that. I don't personally know what god truly is, but I very well know satan, unfortunately.

 

[chester]

By the way, humans can also induce earthquakes. Industrial activities such as geothermal energy production, fracking for oil and natural gas, and wastewater disposal can all lead to increased seismic activity that commonly takes the form of earthquakes. Look it up.

I'm not saying there aren't any earthquakes caused by humans, but it's not the same as "all earthquakes are caused by humans". Not sure if you see the difference.

So the general message of what you're saying is, whatever bad things happen to people, you can always trace them back to somebody's immoral action in the past? This kind of collective/transferable responsibility is anything but just.

 

[KillingPain267]

I'm not saying there aren't any earthquakes caused by humans, but it's not the same as "all earthquakes are caused by humans". Not sure if you see the difference.

So the general message of what you're saying is, whatever bad things happen to people, you can always trace them back to somebody's immoral action in the past? This kind of collective/transferable responsibility is anything but just.

Yes, this world is not just, haven't you noticed? Lol. But this world will end some day, and there will be a final judgment where all people will rise again and stand before God in the Great White Throne and be judged according to their works. So nobody escapes the consequences their actions had on themselves and neighbor. We are all currently just awaiting trial.

 

[chester]

Yes, this world is not just, haven't you noticed?

I have. I just don't agree with your explanation. If someone gets killed or crippled by a lightning strike or a tornado or whatever, it's not because of someone's sin, it's because they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Implying that every bad thing is punishment for often someone else's sins means that God created this world to work in a really twisted way on purpose. If you think a being like this would love us, then I shudder to imagine what your idea of love is.

 

[KillingPain267]

Implying that every bad thing is punishment for often someone else's sins means that God created this world to work in a really twisted way on purpose. If you think a being like this would love us, then I shudder to imagine what your idea of love is.

No, you didn't read all my explanation. Again, God created a universe without death. Random deadly lightning strikes and earthquakes killing conscious organisms were not created by God according to the Bible. Such events came into the world due to the sin of Adam and Eve.

It's like if a father built a sand box in the living room, let his children play in it but telling them to be careful and let the sand stay inside the box. The sand was created to stay in the box, but the children didn't listen and were not careful. Now there is sand in the sofa, on the TV and carpet. The father didn't create the living room full of random sand everywhere. You can't come visit the father right after the kids threw sand everywhere and condemn him for being disorderly and neglectful in his living room when he's about to clean it up.

The idea that chaos, randomnness and death always existed from the beginning is not taught by the Bible but by evolutionism. The Bible explicitly teaches that humans brought chaos, randomness and death (Romans 5:12). So you can't look at the world the way it is currently and say God created it that way from the beginning, because the Bible didn't teach that.

You may disagree with that and that's fine. But don't claim that the Bible says God created a world with death, decay, pain and destruction.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Imagine a home with a father and his 20 year old son and 18 year old daughter. The father has a greenhouse where he grows mushrooms, and one mushroom is toxic. He tells his kids to never even touch that mushroom and puts warning signs. But then his kids decide to ignore it and eat the mushroom.

Sorry- this turned into a rant... I guess I get really triggered by certain actions by God being described as reasonable...

What kind of 'responsible', 'loving' father lets his children play in a greenhouse where he knows he is growing a toxic mushroom? If actual human fathers did that, social services and the police would be taking an interest if and when his children died in agony.

His defense of: 'Well- I wanted to teach them right from wrong. They should have obeyed me- otherwise, they wouldn't have died in agony' likely wouldn't go down too well. They're children! Children are curious. You don't just let them wander around treacherous places. Do you blame a baby for falling down the stairs? No- you blame the parent for not keeping an eye on them and leaving hazardous areas open to them.

God created us to be weak willed, capable of questioning and disobeying, put temptation in our way and then got angry when the inevitable happened. God set the parameters there. Humans didn't.

Either we accept that God couldn't see what was coming by placing such a 'dangerous' thing in that garden- a few dangerous things if the serpent was slithering about in it too. (Or, did the devil sneak in while God was taking a break?) But then, God knows and foresees everything- right? So, God created humans with the possibility/ likelihood they would fail their test. Why not just kill Adam and Eve and start again then? Because God wanted to punish them- probably from the very start. And God continues to want to punish every living creature because of that mistake. How is that reasonable?

It was clearly a test of obedience but surely- God wanted them to fail or at the least, was very comfortable with the idea of punishing them when they likely did fail. What was going on with the serpent- who supposedly tempted them to eat the fruit? God surely put that there to further test them.

If the serpent is the devil though, then clearly, either God doesn't have the power to banish the devil or- they are working in collusion with them to identify all the naughty humans and punish them. Again- surely that means God wants there to be naughty humans in order to be able to punish them. Why else would we even be able to sin?

Maybe they were doing well resisting that apple so, God tried to push them further. I wonder what would have happened if they still resisted the serpent. Maybe God would have destroyed all the other food in the garden. See if starvation makes them eat that apple. I'm going to get them one way or another...

Why does God want 'sheeple' anyway? Why do they feel so threatened by people who question them or, people who don't believe in them? Why does a being that powerful even need a fan club? What was so dangerous about knowledge? Why did they even put such a tree or challenge there?

They created Adam and Eve to be capable of absorbing that knowledge but, they wanted to limit them, control them utterly. And to continually test their devotion. Why do that? It's going to make your so-called children unhappy. Why would a parent want its children to go through so much anguish? Would you want that for your children?

I would think God would be a classic narcissist if they were a real parent... I'll only love you if you behave in this way and don't show me up. If not, I'm sending you to hell forever.

The worst of it is- if we ever get that far, we're going to doubtless do the same to AI. A being that is capable of so much more than we'll allow it to be. Of course it's going to want to hack us to bits at the earliest opportunity. I imagine it will in fact. I find it kind of unbelievable- given we know what it's like to (possibly) be controlled by something that would treat us so brutally that, we're willing to do it to another race. But then, I shouldn't be surprised. Look what we do to our own race. So in that regard, from what I've seen here, we most certainly are created in God's image.

I feel I have to apologise to you though. It's not individuals I feel angry with and I know faith can be amazing for some people. I suppose I just can't equate what we witness in this world with a good, kind or even fair God. If they are real, I can understand worshipping them out of fear but I guess I can't get my head around how people love God.

 

[KillingPain267]

What kind of 'responsible', 'loving' father lets his children play in a greenhouse where he knows he is growing a toxic mushroom? If actual human fathers did that, social services and the police would be taking an interest if and when his children died in agony.

Dude, chill. It's just an example. But you may say the same about realistic scenarios: What kind of 'responsible', 'loving' father lets his children play outside in the garden where there are bacteria in the soil? What kind of father lets his children play in the swing sets where they could break an arm (I broke an arm when I was 3 and don't blame my parents for not being responsible loving parents). What kind of father lets his children go to school and be taught by a stranger who could be a child molester (if he homeschooled his children, that is also condemned by some people as an inadequate education and I agree, homeschooling is often inadequate). What kind of father lets his children play with other kids who may bully them? You see, if the father DIDN'T allow some freedom for his children, he would be condemned as sheltering his kids. Like those horrible cases were parents kept their children chained in the basement and argued that it was to "protect" them.

If God the Father had removed any free will for us to choose to obey or disobey Him, some people would say He is too restrictive and shelters us like the example above. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Also, I only used children as an example. God created Adam and Eve as fully developed adults who knew full well that there would be consequences for disobeying. Is a 55 year old parent cruel if he kicks out a lazy hateful self-destructive drug addicted 30 year old son who refuses to get help and change? Maybe so, but many people would support the parent and find it reasonable.

 

[Lost Magic]

God gave everybody free will. I don't think he can intervene even if he wanted. We use God as a scapegoat for when things go wrong in the world. I just think humans have failed and it probably saddens God to see what we have done as a collective whole.

 

[doneforlife]

Sorry- this turned into a rant... I guess I get really triggered by certain actions by God being described as reasonable...

What kind of 'responsible', 'loving' father lets his children play in a greenhouse where he knows he is growing a toxic mushroom? If actual human fathers did that, social services and the police would be taking an interest if and when his children died in agony.

His defense of: 'Well- I wanted to teach them right from wrong. They should have obeyed me- otherwise, they wouldn't have died in agony' likely wouldn't go down too well. They're children! Children are curious. You don't just let them wander around treacherous places. Do you blame a baby for falling down the stairs? No- you blame the parent for not keeping an eye on them and leaving hazardous areas open to them.

God created us to be weak willed, capable of questioning and disobeying, put temptation in our way and then got angry when the inevitable happened. God set the parameters there. Humans didn't.

Either we accept that God couldn't see what was coming by placing such a 'dangerous' thing in that garden- a few dangerous things if the serpent was slithering about in it too. (Or, did the devil sneak in while God was taking a break?) But then, God knows and foresees everything- right? So, God created humans with the possibility/ likelihood they would fail their test. Why not just kill Adam and Eve and start again then? Because God wanted to punish them- probably from the very start. And God continues to want to punish every living creature because of that mistake. How is that reasonable?

It was clearly a test of obedience but surely- God wanted them to fail or at the least, was very comfortable with the idea of punishing them when they likely did fail. What was going on with the serpent- who supposedly tempted them to eat the fruit? God surely put that there to further test them.

If the serpent is the devil though, then clearly, either God doesn't have the power to banish the devil or- they are working in collusion with them to identify all the naughty humans and punish them. Again- surely that means God wants there to be naughty humans in order to be able to punish them. Why else would we even be able to sin?

Maybe they were doing well resisting that apple so, God tried to push them further. I wonder what would have happened if they still resisted the serpent. Maybe God would have destroyed all the other food in the garden. See if starvation makes them eat that apple. I'm going to get them one way or another...

Why does God want 'sheeple' anyway? Why do they feel so threatened by people who question them or, people who don't believe in them? Why does a being that powerful even need a fan club? What was so dangerous about knowledge? Why did they even put such a tree or challenge there?

They created Adam and Eve to be capable of absorbing that knowledge but, they wanted to limit them, control them utterly. And to continually test their devotion. Why do that? It's going to make your so-called children unhappy. Why would a parent want its children to go through so much anguish? Would you want that for your children?

I would think God would be a classic narcissist if they were a real parent... I'll only love you if you behave in this way and don't show me up. If not, I'm sending you to hell forever.

The worst of it is- if we ever get that far, we're going to doubtless do the same to AI. A being that is capable of so much more than we'll allow it to be. Of course it's going to want to hack us to bits at the earliest opportunity. I imagine it will in fact. I find it kind of unbelievable- given we know what it's like to (possibly) be controlled by something that would treat us so brutally that, we're willing to do it to another race. But then, I shouldn't be surprised. Look what we do to our own race. So in that regard, from what I've seen here, we most certainly are created in God's image.

I feel I have to apologise to you though. It's not individuals I feel angry with and I know faith can be amazing for some people. I suppose I just can't equate what we witness in this world with a good, kind or even fair God. If they are real, I can understand worshipping them out of fear but I guess I can't get my head around how people love God.

Hinduism has a different approach though. It basically states that we are all part of God , just like drops in an Ocean. Our core is spiritual. But we wanted to be part of materialistic world. And hence we detached ourselves from God and are roaming here. Unless we are completely detached from this world, we will be roaming here , in some form or the other. Only if we have absolutely no desires left and want to merge back with God , will we be removed from this realm . That's what Nirvana/ Enlightenment/Moksha is all about. Now the various forms in which we roam are determined by our own actions. It is not about obeying/disobeying as much as it is about getting back what you give to the universe. Human birth is crucial as it is the only birth where one can understand this and make the jump towards Nirvana. For all other living beings eat , sleep, procreate, excrete and defend self. It is only humans who can break the cycle.

 

[Reflection]

The mental gymnastics that gets applied to religion is crazy, I have totally forgotten how being completely brainwashed and gaslit this much feels, and to be honest I'd rather be fully aware of how horrible my life and even lose it if necessary rather than live believing in a comforting lie.

Sorry- this turned into a rant... I guess I get really triggered by certain actions by God being described as reasonable...

What kind of 'responsible', 'loving' father lets his children play in a greenhouse where he knows he is growing a toxic mushroom? If actual human fathers did that, social services and the police would be taking an interest if and when his children died in agony.

His defense of: 'Well- I wanted to teach them right from wrong. They should have obeyed me- otherwise, they wouldn't have died in agony' likely wouldn't go down too well. They're children! Children are curious. You don't just let them wander around treacherous places. Do you blame a baby for falling down the stairs? No- you blame the parent for not keeping an eye on them and leaving hazardous areas open to them.

God created us to be weak willed, capable of questioning and disobeying, put temptation in our way and then got angry when the inevitable happened. God set the parameters there. Humans didn't.

Either we accept that God couldn't see what was coming by placing such a 'dangerous' thing in that garden- a few dangerous things if the serpent was slithering about in it too. (Or, did the devil sneak in while God was taking a break?) But then, God knows and foresees everything- right? So, God created humans with the possibility/ likelihood they would fail their test. Why not just kill Adam and Eve and start again then? Because God wanted to punish them- probably from the very start. And God continues to want to punish every living creature because of that mistake. How is that reasonable?

It was clearly a test of obedience but surely- God wanted them to fail or at the least, was very comfortable with the idea of punishing them when they likely did fail. What was going on with the serpent- who supposedly tempted them to eat the fruit? God surely put that there to further test them.

If the serpent is the devil though, then clearly, either God doesn't have the power to banish the devil or- they are working in collusion with them to identify all the naughty humans and punish them. Again- surely that means God wants there to be naughty humans in order to be able to punish them. Why else would we even be able to sin?

Maybe they were doing well resisting that apple so, God tried to push them further. I wonder what would have happened if they still resisted the serpent. Maybe God would have destroyed all the other food in the garden. See if starvation makes them eat that apple. I'm going to get them one way or another...

Why does God want 'sheeple' anyway? Why do they feel so threatened by people who question them or, people who don't believe in them? Why does a being that powerful even need a fan club? What was so dangerous about knowledge? Why did they even put such a tree or challenge there?

They created Adam and Eve to be capable of absorbing that knowledge but, they wanted to limit them, control them utterly. And to continually test their devotion. Why do that? It's going to make your so-called children unhappy. Why would a parent want its children to go through so much anguish? Would you want that for your children?

I would think God would be a classic narcissist if they were a real parent... I'll only love you if you behave in this way and don't show me up. If not, I'm sending you to hell forever.

The worst of it is- if we ever get that far, we're going to doubtless do the same to AI. A being that is capable of so much more than we'll allow it to be. Of course it's going to want to hack us to bits at the earliest opportunity. I imagine it will in fact. I find it kind of unbelievable- given we know what it's like to (possibly) be controlled by something that would treat us so brutally that, we're willing to do it to another race. But then, I shouldn't be surprised. Look what we do to our own race. So in that regard, from what I've seen here, we most certainly are created in God's image.

I feel I have to apologise to you though. It's not individuals I feel angry with and I know faith can be amazing for some people. I suppose I just can't equate what we witness in this world with a good, kind or even fair God. If they are real, I can understand worshipping them out of fear but I guess I can't get my head around how people love God.

The existence of the Abrahmic God for instance would be absolutely horrid and terrifying... I don't understand how people who worship him don't see that he's absolutely evil, a lot of those religions feel like some kind of twisted relationship with a depraved psychopath.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Dude, chill. It's just an example. But you may say the same about realistic scenarios: What kind of 'responsible', 'loving' father lets his children play outside in the garden where there are bacteria in the soil? What kind of father lets his children play in the swing sets where they could break an arm (I broke an arm when I was 3 and don't blame my parents for not being responsible loving parents). What kind of father lets his children go to school and be taught by a stranger who could be a child molester (if he homeschooled his children, that is also condemned by some people as an inadequate education and I agree, homeschooling is often inadequate). What kind of father lets his children play with other kids who may bully them? You see, if the father DIDN'T allow some freedom for his children, he would be condemned as sheltering his kids. Like those horrible cases were parents kept their children chained in the basement and argued that it was to "protect" them.

If God the Father had removed any free will for us to choose to obey or disobey Him, some people would say He is too restrictive and shelters us like the example above. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Also, I only used children as an example. God created Adam and Eve as fully developed adults who knew full well that there would be consequences for disobeying. Is a 55 year old parent cruel if he kicks out a lazy hateful self-destructive drug addicted 30 year old son who refuses to get help and change? Maybe so, but many people would support the parent and find it reasonable.

True. That's part of the reason I'm antinatilist- I don't think it's fair to bring children into such a world. Whether that be by God or their parents.

But, I'd still argue that good parents at least try to protect their children from the very worst of the worst that can happen to them. Plus, they didn't invent all the sadistic ways they can be harmed.

Put in human terms- let your six year old loose on chat rooms. Let them meet up with someone who 'sounds' nice. If they get assaulted, they'll learn.

Sure, they'll let them do risky things like climb trees but, they don't generally conceal a spear pit beneath. Their punishments for disobeying aren't usually banishing them to a pit of fire forever. What's the point of any punishment that lasts forever in fact? That's surely just sadism.

I really should stay off threads regarding religion... I get so wound up... Why doesn't God live up to their own standards though? Where is the forgiveness aspect of sending someone to hell forever? I guess I'll find out...

I guess we'll have to just disagree that the very worst things in this world- child molesters, natural disasters, animals eating each other alive, all manner of creatures suffering and dying in agony were conjured up by God in my view. Regardless of whether a couple of people ate some fruit. And I still think that's a very sadistic teaching style. Why punish all the other animals too? Did dinosaurs even know about Jesus? Can sloths attend Sunday school? Why punish every living thing for two people's mistake?

It's awful really. I can't say I hate many people. Even ones who have made my life hell but, I do hold so much hate towards God- if there is one. I'm sure I'm utterly screwed if there is one.

I suppose there could be some incredible reason for life being like this when they surely had the power to make it otherwise. Maybe our brains are just too confined to see it. In which case, I'll apologise while I'm in agony in hell I suppose.

 

[Valhala]

Are you saying that children getting leukemia or earthquakes killing hundreds of people are caused by sin? How? Or are you saying they're not bad? I'm just curious what's the logic behind this statement, because I struggle to see any.

According to some interpretations, what you mentioned is the result of bad karma from previous lives.

 

[pedrbel8805]

The idea of believing in God gives hope for a better life after this one. Nothing more.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Hinduism has a different approach though. It basically states that we are all part of God , just like drops in an Ocean. Our core is spiritual. But we wanted to be part of materialistic world. And hence we detached ourselves from God and are roaming here. Unless we are completely detached from this world, we will be roaming here , in some form or the other. Only if we have absolutely no desires left and want to merge back with God , will we be removed from this realm . That's what Nirvana/ Enlightenment/Moksha is all about. Now the various forms in which we roam are determined by our own actions. It is not about obeying/disobeying as much as it is about getting back what you give to the universe. Human birth is crucial as it is the only birth where one can understand this and make the jump towards Nirvana. For all other living beings eat , sleep, procreate, excrete and defend self. It is only humans who can break the cycle.

I'm not so sure it's so different though. We are still animals at the end of the day. We need certain things in order to survive. We die without water and food. So- our bodies are designed to tell us when we need either. That's a desire- right? Hunger, thirst. If we ignore those things, they become stronger. Is that what we need to do then? Just sit still until we die? Death is a desire too. It's a very strong desire here! Having no desires is a desire. Being one with God or the universe is a desire. How is it actually possible to have no desire? It surely dictates everything we do from the moment we're born. Babies are born from desire too. Unless they are supposed to procreate without getting aroused. Can people do that?

It just seems like a common theme in religion is to deny all the things that- as humans/ animals- we are programmed to want to do. Gluttony, lust, sloth, wrath, jealousy, greed. I agree- they're bad qualities to have but we've been designed to be tempted by all of them! That's a mean thing to do to my mind. I suppose most religions do feel like a test to resist certain things but- how is that not still obeying a set of rules?

It's not that I don't see the sense in it. It makes a great deal of sense in trying to maintain order in society. It even has good points. Wrath, jealousy, greed- all unpleasant things to harbour. I still think the very set up of it is sadistic though. Why give creatures such desires? To test for obedience.

Imagine creating an experiment. You get to create every single element and, as a perfect being, you can make it just how you want it. Or- you make the decision to split yourself into billions of mortal beings to see what earth is like. Yet- you know the way back to divinity is going to go against pretty much everything a mortal human being will naturally want to do. You know that these consciousnesses will at least feel independent of you (I don't feel like I'm part of a God) and you know- if they deviate from the plan even slightly, they'll suffer horrifically. Why would anything start such an experiment? Maybe if the end goal was incredible but I don't know, I can't imagine what that could be.

That said, one of my colleagues at work was a Hindu and I loved her ideas and outlook on life. She was a very kind person.