BleedingHeart

BleedingHeart

Student
Nov 5, 2019
130
If my CTB plan gets discovered before I do it, or if I fail my attempt and end up having to go to psych ward- who pays for it? I have insurance under my husband (I don't work)- so the bill I believe would fall to him and I know he wouldn't be thrilled at all about that.
I had a single day stay in hospital in September for suicidal thoughts and even with insurance the one day hospital stay cost us $2000. I can't imagine what the cost of a psych ward stay would impose.
For those of you who've had one or several psych ward stays, how do you pay it off if you don't have a job? That burden will keep going to him until I get CTB right. This weighs on me...
 
Squiddy

Squiddy

Here Lies My Hopes And Dreams
Sep 4, 2019
5,903
Disability is helping me pay off the many hospital stays I've had
 
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BleedingHeart

BleedingHeart

Student
Nov 5, 2019
130
Disability is helping me pay off the many hospital stays I've had
Glad you're able to get some help paying it off; do you have disability for MH reasons?
I don't have any way to pay if it happens :(
 
Squiddy

Squiddy

Here Lies My Hopes And Dreams
Sep 4, 2019
5,903
Glad you're able to get some help paying it off; do you have disability for MH reasons?
I don't have any way to pay if it happens :(
I'm on it for bipolar, anxiety and bpd
 
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WhiteDespair

WhiteDespair

The Temporary Problem is Life
Oct 24, 2019
837
Look into charity care.
 
BlueWidow

BlueWidow

Visionary
Oct 6, 2019
2,179
I was forced into a psych ward in 2009 against my will when I didn't need to be in there. I was forced to sit in the emergency room from around 2 PM in the afternoon until 7 o'clock at night.
I was then checked in to the psych ward. I was there the entire next day, checked out at 11:30 in the morning the following day (I got lucky because they normally wouldn't check people out until after 3 PM in the afternoon, but they really needed the bed for someone else, so they let me check out early). I later got a bill for nearly $7,000 which I was forced to pay even though I had been checked in against my will and I didn't need to be in there. The nurse I was seeing for my thyroid problems at the time had a trainee in her office that day and I think she was just showing off for this trainee, showing her how powerful she was and how she could have someone confined to a hospital against their will at the drop of a hat if she chose to without any proof whatsoever. I just happened to be the unfortunate victim that she chose.
Mentally ill people definitely have no rights at all in the United States. They're one of the few groups of people that you can completely violate their constitutional rights and nobody says a word. They can be confined against their will for no reason on the word of any rogue nurse or doctor or sometimes people that aren't even medical professionals and falsely accused of things that they didn't do or didn't say and nobody does anything about it. Mentally ill people are treated worse than criminals.
It's disgusting.
 
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Frank

Member
Aug 22, 2019
87
If you get "saved" and you come out wounded or brain damaged etc insurance might not cover it since it's self inflicted
 
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Soulless_Angel

Soulless_Angel

existence is futile
Jul 10, 2019
2,225
wow the US etc is seriously messed up!!! I know we bitch about the NHS here in the UK, but at least the non care and non existent help doesn't charge us!!!
 
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BleedingHeart

BleedingHeart

Student
Nov 5, 2019
130
I was forced into a psych ward in 2009 against my will when I didn't need to be in there. I was forced to sit in the emergency room from around 2 PM in the afternoon until 7 o'clock at night.
I was then checked in to the psych ward. I was there the entire next day, checked out at 11:30 in the morning the following day (I got lucky because they normally wouldn't check people out until after 3 PM in the afternoon, but they really needed the bed for someone else, so they let me check out early). I later got a bill for nearly $7,000 which I was forced to pay even though I had been checked in against my will and I didn't need to be in there. The nurse I was seeing for my thyroid problems at the time had a trainee in her office that day and I think she was just showing off for this trainee, showing her how powerful she was and how she could have someone confined to a hospital against their will at the drop of a hat if she chose to without any proof whatsoever. I just happened to be the unfortunate victim that she chose.
Mentally ill people definitely have no rights at all in the United States. They're one of the few groups of people that you can completely violate their constitutional rights and nobody says a word. They can be confined against their will for no reason on the word of any rogue nurse or doctor or sometimes people that aren't even medical professionals and falsely accused of things that they didn't do or didn't say and nobody does anything about it. Mentally ill people are treated worse than criminals.
It's disgusting.
That's awful; I'm sorry that happened to you.
People with MH issues are already afraid of those situations and to just leave you there without any clue S to what might happen to you is cruel.
I went to ER for one day and they referred me to psychiatrist and my current therapist. (Who I've revealed much of my thoughts and feelings to over the last years and months). I stopped using my SSRI that I was only on for 2 weeks and haven't told my psychiatrist yet. (I stopped so I can use meto for SN method but now have to try to lie my way out of why I stopped to my psychiatrist and hope she doesn't put me on different meds or force me to take my SSRIs). I might have to tell my therapist today IF she asks me about my meds; (Because I stupidly signed a paper a few weeks back saying they could share medical info on me and so I have to make sure my lies match up now. I hate lying and I get anxious.) if so, she might call psychiatrist and then it could become a concern. I'm not sure if they can force me to take meds when I haven't yet been diagnosed with anything besides anxiety *technically* (but they do know I have perceptual disturbances and paranoia after 4 months of marijuana use). So they could potentially use that against me but I'm not sure. Depends if I can lie or fake my way through being somewhat normal for a few weeks. This is agonizing. My paranoia doesn't help things and makes me act more anxious and could clue people in and watch me closer. Not to mention, since my husband and I are basically separated and we were seeing her together initially and now he might see her soon regarding issues in our marriage resulting from my marijuana use and sort of psychotic break, he could tell her anything of my behavior lately and what he is witnessing and the fact that he saw things on my phone regarding looking in to suicide legitimately; this is cause for concern because I won't know what he said to her or her to him regarding my behavior. They could monitor me and I just am so afraid of where all this could go. And then if I do end up in a ward, the financial burden is on him and is won't be okay. I can barely function day to day but have to hide it a bit from others when they're around. So if I'm looking functional, he will likely make me get a job to pay it off which I know I can't function at in my state, OR I'd have to admit to my mental health issues and agree to their terms and then still seems I couldn't get disability for mental health for 2 years. It's getting out of hand and I'm so nervous.
If you get "saved" and you come out wounded or brain damaged etc insurance might not cover it since it's self inflicted
So if my husband gets stuck with the bill it could be full expense? I can't imagine... this is terrifying. I'm already terrified I won't be able to CTB because of high anxiety and SI.
 
F

Frank

Member
Aug 22, 2019
87
So if my husband gets stuck with the bill it could be full expense? I can't imagine... this is terrifying. I'm already terrified I won't be able to CTB because of high anxiety and SI.
Only if you survive and it says so in your insurance def worth checking that out tho
 
BlueWidow

BlueWidow

Visionary
Oct 6, 2019
2,179
I think if more people couldn't afford their stays in the hospital or if it could be proven that they were forced in there against their will when they didn't need to be and that caused the insurance to not pay off, I think far less people would be forced into the hospital against their will.
I think here in the United States, as Insurance becomes more and more expensive, mental health is going to get pushed to the wayside and the insurance companies aren't going to pay for it anymore- unless something drastic is done.
And I believe if hospitals didn't get paid for forcing people in there against their will, they wouldn't do it nearly as often if they had to bear the cost themselves.
Personally, I think the person that forced you into the hospital against your will should have to pay for it. I don't see why I should be forced into the hospital against my will when I don't need to be in there, and then be bankrupted on top of it by being forced to pay a giant medical bill that I wouldn't have incurred if it wasn't for the person forcing me in the hospital. I think if more people had to pay for the bills of people they forced into the hospital, that would also be a way for less people to be forced in there when they didn't need to be in there. If you wanna save me then put your money where your mouth is and pay for it. These do-gooders should have to pay a cost for interfering in things that are none of their business and totally disrupting people's lives who already are having a difficult time.
The same nurse also lied to the police and told them that my husband was abusive when she had no proof whatsoever and nothing could be further from the truth. My husband was the farthest thing from abusive that you can get! She was dying to show this trainee that, not only could she get someone committed to a hospital against their will whenever she felt like it, but she could also get people arrested with no proof at all just by calling the police and claiming something about them that wasn't true. Luckily, my husband realized what she was doing and he stayed away from this police woman, who was dying to arrest him and just daring him to do any tiny thing so that she would be justified in it. My husband went with me to this doctor's appointment just to support me because of how horrible I was feeling, and he ends up getting falsely accused of being abusive! After that, he never went to another doctor's appointment with me ever again, no matter how sick I was. I actually don't blame him. It was a horrific experience that shook both of us to the core.

If that ever happened to me again and I was forced into the hospital against my will, it would bankrupt me. I just wouldn't be able to pay the bill. I have no clue what they would do. I have no wages for them to garnish. I guess they could garnish the tiny pension that I get from my husband's retirement plan, but it doesn't even amount to barely $300 a month.
Most of the money I live on is money from my husband's life insurance policy that he left to me when he passed away. It was supposed to be enough money for me to live on for the rest of my life, but it has fallen way short of that. That's one of the reasons I have to ctb.
I can't hold down a job and my money is going to run out at some point eventually.
Plus, I'm hoping to leave some money to my husband's grandkids. If I live to a natural life I could very well deplete all of the money that he left and there would be, not only nothing left for his grandkids, but I would also end up homeless and on the street.
It's a horrible situation that they put us in. And all of their so-called solutions seem to actually work against us and make our lives worse. It's just so messed up.
Only if you survive and it says so in your insurance def worth checking that out tho
Could they force him to pay the bill?

What do people do that don't have any money and can't afford to pay the bill? There must be some organization somewhere that pays the bills for these people. What about all of these mental health services that supposedly want to help people? Why aren't they helping them to pay the bill?
That's awful; I'm sorry that happened to you.
People with MH issues are already afraid of those situations and to just leave you there without any clue S to what might happen to you is cruel.
I went to ER for one day and they referred me to psychiatrist and my current therapist. (Who I've revealed much of my thoughts and feelings to over the last years and months). I stopped using my SSRI that I was only on for 2 weeks and haven't told my psychiatrist yet. (I stopped so I can use meto for SN method but now have to try to lie my way out of why I stopped to my psychiatrist and hope she doesn't put me on different meds or force me to take my SSRIs). I might have to tell my therapist today IF she asks me about my meds; (Because I stupidly signed a paper a few weeks back saying they could share medical info on me and so I have to make sure my lies match up now. I hate lying and I get anxious.) if so, she might call psychiatrist and then it could become a concern. I'm not sure if they can force me to take meds when I haven't yet been diagnosed with anything besides anxiety *technically* (but they do know I have perceptual disturbances and paranoia after 4 months of marijuana use). So they could potentially use that against me but I'm not sure. Depends if I can lie or fake my way through being somewhat normal for a few weeks. This is agonizing. My paranoia doesn't help things and makes me act more anxious and could clue people in and watch me closer. Not to mention, since my husband and I are basically separated and we were seeing her together initially and now he might see her soon regarding issues in our marriage resulting from my marijuana use and sort of psychotic break, he could tell her anything of my behavior lately and what he is witnessing and the fact that he saw things on my phone regarding looking in to suicide legitimately; this is cause for concern because I won't know what he said to her or her to him regarding my behavior. They could monitor me and I just am so afraid of where all this could go. And then if I do end up in a ward, the financial burden is on him and is won't be okay. I can barely function day to day but have to hide it a bit from others when they're around. So if I'm looking functional, he will likely make me get a job to pay it off which I know I can't function at in my state, OR I'd have to admit to my mental health issues and agree to their terms and then still seems I couldn't get disability for mental health for 2 years. It's getting out of hand and I'm so
nervous.



I'm so sorry you're stuck in this situation. It's kind of you to worry about what would happen if your husband had to pay the bill. I don't know what your relationship with him is, but if it was me and someone turned me into the hospital or did anything to make me be put in the hospital, I wouldn't give a damn if they were forced to pay the bill. It would serve them right for interfering in my own personal plans which is none of their business. But I understand that maybe this isn't the situation you're in.
I wish I knew something to say to help you, but I just don't know what to say. I would be in the same situation of worrying about how the bill was going to get paid. I also understand your paranoia.
I hope everything works out well for you. I'll be thinking of you and hoping everything works out the way you need it to. Please let us know what happened. I'm sure everyone here is sending you good wishes. :heart:
 
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BleedingHeart

BleedingHeart

Student
Nov 5, 2019
130
I think if more people couldn't afford their stays in the hospital or if it could be proven that they were forced in there against their will when they didn't need to be and that caused the insurance to not pay off, I think far less people would be forced into the hospital against their will.
I think here in the United States, as Insurance becomes more and more expensive, mental health is going to get pushed to the wayside and the insurance companies aren't going to pay for it anymore- unless something drastic is done.
And I believe if hospitals didn't get paid for forcing people in there against their will, they wouldn't do it nearly as often if they had to bear the cost themselves.
Personally, I think the person that forced you into the hospital against your will should have to pay for it. I don't see why I should be forced into the hospital against my will when I don't need to be in there, and then be bankrupted on top of it by being forced to pay a giant medical bill that I wouldn't have incurred if it wasn't for the person forcing me in the hospital. I think if more people had to pay for the bills of people they forced into the hospital, that would also be a way for less people to be forced in there when they didn't need to be in there. If you wanna save me then put your money where your mouth is and pay for it. These do-gooders should have to pay a cost for interfering in things that are none of their business and totally disrupting people's lives who already are having a difficult time.
The same nurse also lied to the police and told them that my husband was abusive when she had no proof whatsoever and nothing could be further from the truth. My husband was the farthest thing from abusive that you can get! She was dying to show this trainee that, not only could she get someone committed to a hospital against their will whenever she felt like it, but she could also get people arrested with no proof at all just by calling the police and claiming something about them that wasn't true. Luckily, my husband realized what she was doing and he stayed away from this police woman, who was dying to arrest him and just daring him to do any tiny thing so that she would be justified in it. My husband went with me to this doctor's appointment just to support me because of how horrible I was feeling, and he ends up getting falsely accused of being abusive! After that, he never went to another doctor's appointment with me ever again, no matter how sick I was. I actually don't blame him. It was a horrific experience that shook both of us to the core.

If that ever happened to me again and I was forced into the hospital against my will, it would bankrupt me. I just wouldn't be able to pay the bill. I have no clue what they would do. I have no wages for them to garnish. I guess they could garnish the tiny pension that I get from my husband's retirement plan, but it doesn't even amount to barely $300 a month.
Most of the money I live on is money from my husband's life insurance policy that he left to me when he passed away. It was supposed to be enough money for me to live on for the rest of my life, but it has fallen way short of that. That's one of the reasons I have to ctb.
I can't hold down a job and my money is going to run out at some point eventually.
Plus, I'm hoping to leave some money to my husband's grandkids. If I live to a natural life I could very well deplete all of the money that he left and there would be, not only nothing left for his grandkids, but I would also end up homeless and on the street.
It's a horrible situation that they put us in. And all of their so-called solutions seem to actually work against us and make our lives worse. It's just so messed up.

Could they force him to pay the bill?

What do people do that don't have any money and can't afford to pay the bill? There must be some organization somewhere that pays the bills for these people. What about all of these mental health services that supposedly want to help people? Why aren't they helping them to pay the bill?
Sorry to hear of your husbands passing and your situation. I hope things work out in your favor to ease your pain.
I probably have some mental health issues going on that are emerging and probably need to be in a psych ward but I'm still coherent enough to be able to hopefully manipulate a bit for awhile to try to stay away from the outcome even though I hate to have to be manipulating and lying. But now I've told so much of my inner world to my therapist and others that they know a lot about my mental state (even though they themselves tried convincing me I was okay and just needed to get through the MJ psychosis etc)- but because of all that and things I've done, my life is ruined and I'm in too deep. Now I have to do my best to play somewhat normal enough to stay out of a psych ward all while trying to cover for some lies as I go about Getting medication and stuff. Ugh.
As if I'm not stressed enough with guilt and mental pain from the wrong I've done in my life and others lives I've made more difficult by my mistakes, and will also hurt by CTBing too, I'm stressed about trying to hide my mental state and covering my ass and still being stressed about the whole CTB thing. So much fear. I probably deserve it but it isn't fair. Sorry for my selfish ranting; I'm just so worried about things.
I don't want anyone to have to be responsible for the costs of my actions, but definitely not my husband who I've already hurt and it all just adds to my guilt and self hatred.
 
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Morphosis

Morphosis

Experienced
Sep 22, 2019
260
What do people do that don't have any money and can't afford to pay the bill? There must be some organization somewhere that pays the bills for these people. What about all of these mental health services that supposedly want to help people? Why aren't they helping them to pay the bill?
I was wondering this too? I had no idea it cost that much, thousands of dollars for ONE DAY?! So they section you against your will and then bankrupt you for it?
I will never complain about the NHS again!
What about people who have no money, are they just not eligible for inpatient care?
 
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BlueWidow

BlueWidow

Visionary
Oct 6, 2019
2,179
Sorry to hear of your husbands passing and your situation. I hope things work out in your favor to ease your pain.
I probably have some mental health issues going on that are emerging and probably need to be in a psych ward but I'm still coherent enough to be able to hopefully manipulate a bit for awhile to try to stay away from the outcome even though I hate to have to be manipulating and lying. But now I've told so much of my inner world to my therapist and others that they know a lot about my mental state (even though they themselves tried convincing me I was okay and just needed to get through the MJ psychosis etc)- but because of all that and things I've done, my life is ruined and I'm in too deep. Now I have to do my best to play somewhat normal enough to stay out of a psych ward all while trying to cover for some lies as I go about Getting medication and stuff. Ugh.
As if I'm not stressed enough with guilt and mental pain from the wrong I've done in my life and others lives I've made more difficult by my mistakes, and will also hurt by CTBing too, I'm stressed about trying to hide my mental state and covering my ass and still being stressed about the whole CTB thing. So much fear. I probably deserve it but it isn't fair. Sorry for my selfish ranting; I'm just so worried about things.
I don't want anyone to have to be responsible for the costs of my actions, but definitely not my husband who I've already hurt and it all just adds to my guilt and self hatred.
I understand and sympathize. I wasn't aware that you could get psychosis from marijuana. I'm not too familiar with marijuana, as I've never used it before in my life.

I probably deserve it but it isn't fair. Sorry for my selfish ranting; I'm just so worried about things.

I don't think any of us on this forum deserve any of the things that are happening to us, no matter how bad we think the things we've done are. I understand your worry and I don't think you're being selfish at all. I understand when you're anxious and scared you just need a place to let it out. I'm glad you have this forum to let out feelings and thoughts that you probably can't let out other places without severe consequences. I learned the hard way never to be honest with a therapist
about any suicidal ideations or tendencies that I might have, and particularly to NEVER NEVER tell them that you have a plan.
I think the first time many people see a therapist, they assume they can be honest because they assume the person is there to help them, but in my experience, they're not really there to help you. They're just there to get you to stop "acting crazy". They usually do this by offering trite suggestions about things you can do to make yourself feel better or else they take the opposite road and they attempt to shut down what you're feeling and tell you that what you're feeling isn't appropriate and you need to just quit because you're not fitting into society. The whole goal is to make sure you fit back into society so they can put you back to work. If you're not earning money and spending money, then you're no good to the society. That's all it's really about is earning money and spending money.

I don't want anyone to have to be responsible for the costs of my actions, but definitely not my husband who I've already hurt and it all just adds to my guilt and self hatred.

I understand this too. I worry about how my ctb will affect certain people around me who have been kind to me. I guess that's something we all have to face and makes a decision about. There's really no way to ctb without hurting somebody somewhere, even if you may not realize you're doing it.
It ultimately comes down to whether you want to sacrifice yourself or the other people. In my case, I feel like I've been sacrificing myself for a long time by living in a condition that is not sustainable or fixable. I've been in severe emotional pain for most of my life. Then just when I thought it couldn't get any worse, I lost my husband and found out it could get a whole lot worse than I ever dreamed of.
And now, I'm also dealing with lots of physical issues as well. For me the situation has become so impossible to live with that I don't really feel like I have any other choice but to ctb for lots of different reasons. But I also feel guilt about the few people that I will leave behind who could be affected by it. It's a difficult thing to live with. You don't want to hurt the people you love, but you can't continue on in the condition that you're in. It's a situation where someone has to lose and there doesn't seem to be any way around it that I can find. I wish our society had different views on death and self-determination. It would make things so much easier for a lot of us if they did.
I also understand trying to pretend you're"normal" when you aren't. That's one of the few things that I am grateful for is that I no longer have to do that. Of course, I have to keep my suicidal tendencies hidden, but I no longer keep my depression hidden at all. I don't keep my bad moods hidden from people. I think if they don't want to be around my depression and my bad moods and they can stay the hell away from me and I'm perfectly fine with that, in fact, I prefer it.
At this point I don't owe anybody anything.
But I remember how hard it was trying to pretend like I was OK when I wasn't all the way back to being in elementary school, high school, college, and beyond. I've spent most of my life trying to pretend like I'm OK when I'm not. It was a little better when my husband was alive, but I still had to do a lot of pretending even around him.
I understand that you're already stressed out because of your mental issues, and then more stress is added because you have to pretend they don't exist and that you're OK. And then if your husband decides to get you a job on top of all that. . . That would definitely cause me to have a major breakdown. Once again people who are trying to make things better instead only end up making it worse. The whole situation is frustrating because situations like yours play out over and over all over the place. People, who may be well-meaning and think they're helping, end up doing things that make mentally ill people worse instead of better. Every solution they have seems to be designed to make things worse. It's frustrating to me because I want to say something positive to make you feel better and to help you, but the situation & the way society thinks about these issues just seems to make it impossible. The most I can do is send you my well wishes and hope that everything works out for you. I'm really sorry that you're struggling so much and I can certainly identify with it more than I can even explain. It's heartbreaking. I'm so sorry that this is happening to you. :aw:
 
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RestingGirl23

RestingGirl23

Member
Nov 2, 2019
55
I don't have much of a solution to be honest but there's an easy (albeit immoral depending on how you look at it) solution if you get into a psych ward. Just don't pay your bill. You'll start getting collection letters and your credit will go down but you don't have an obligation to pay for it. After a couple a years the ward will write it off as uncollectible and you can take it off your credit report. Filing for bankruptcy is another way of doing this.

Alternatively, you can work with the psych ward to negotiate what you owe and they can offer you a payment plan or you can even negotiate a lower payment overall of what you owe if it's a huge amount.

I'm not an expert by any means, so I would suggest you do your research as well. The above options are the common solutions I have heard.
 
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BleedingHeart

BleedingHeart

Student
Nov 5, 2019
130
@BlueWidow
yeah, I guess it's rare but the marijuana sort of brought on a psychosis or mental break (I only smoked for 4-5 months and never before that). That in combination with mistakes I've made that hurt people I love led to perceptual disturbances and feeling spiritually attacked. It's a long story that I still don't quite understand myself. Maybe I just have mental and personality disorders that I wasn't aware of, I'm not sure. But now I'm trying to hide my thoughts because I already ruined a great life and I don't want the lifelong stigma and suffering of mental health disorders. I don't even want to be diagnosed because I already fear psych ward stays because of how much I've already shared about my symptoms and suicidal ideations with therapist and psychiatrist. Now I'm trying to pretend I'm getting a little better to buy me some time. And because my husband went to therapy with me before and now we are basically together but separated, he is going to be seeing her too for at least one appointment. I'm paranoid of what he may say to her regarding my health and if he will tell her the suicidal info he saw me looking at, among other things. Without knowing what he may divulge to her, I have to be careful what I share with her. I feel bad because she's always truly seemed like she wanted to help me over the years and now with this whole new issue, I know she seems to want to help and cares but then I know she also has to look out for herself and her job which I understand but now I have to hide myself a bit. Though I agree the mental health system sucks! Any other organ gets scans and testing to figure out if things can be treated and healed; but for the brain, they don't scan it or look for things, they just seem to use us as guinea pigs for their medicines and throw meds at us until something seems to stick and then hail to the meds who made us "normal". It's not truth health. (Though I'm grateful for those who get some kind of relief from meds too.) it's a catch22 it seems.
I wish mental health issues weren't even a thing. I wish mistakes in life weren't even a thing. being on this planet and being alive should be a beautiful thing and it's so unfair that so many suffer and I also feel so bad and guilty that I'm such a broken person now and have also caused suffering to others because of my own fight flight/ mental health/ personality disorder/ etc. which has contributed to lashing out emotionally to the people I love. I still wonder if I'm even capable of real love or if I've always been some sort of covert narcissist and just now realizing it. It's awful to live with these thoughts and the repercussions of me existing.
Im glad for your sake that you don't have to hide your depression anymore. Sometimes it's a relief and it sounds like that's what it is for you. And again, I'm really sorry for the loss of your husband. I feel terrible that I took my own husband for granted and broke his heart and speaking with you and how much the loss of your husband has affected you, I feel I don't deserve your kindness. I'm really sorry for you suffering so much; you seem to be a caring person and don't deserve to be in so much pain.
I'm not saying suicide is selfish because I don't think that it is, but for *myself* it will probably be my last act of selfishness. I feel like I was living well for awhile and that any mental health issues I had seemed more like behaviors I just needed to adjust or fix about myself. Then after my issues with marijuana psychosis and my mistakes, it seems everything intensified and made me see what a shit person I've been. And I don't want to live with that; but me CTBing will break my kids and husband because it will just cause him to have to carry more burdens I've brought into their lives. But then I think I'm doing them a favor too of taking myself out. Yes, I have my mental issues and mistakes I want to escape because I don't see a sustainable future as "me" and I don't know how to grow into the person I want to be now that I have mental issues on top of the mess I've made of my life. It all feels like a living hell but then I know I will give that to them to bear and so it's so difficult. Again this is my feelings only for my situation. I just feel like I'm again choosing selfishness. I didn't always see myself as that way before but I feel like I've hit the basement of my soul and there's no way out.
thank you for listening to my drama. It's hard for us to articulate the whole scope of our stories while trying to share. I wish you peace in your life in each day.
 
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azucaramargo

azucaramargo

Enlightened
Sep 16, 2018
1,010
If you get "saved" and you come out wounded or brain damaged etc insurance might not cover it since it's self inflicted
Really??? Wow!
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,820
Yeah the overall situation just really sucks in the US. While I never been in a psych ward or any hospital before, from stories that I've heard, most patients who can't pay it off either go to negotiate with the hospital on some payment plan, they keep fighting with the billing department (over months, years even), and then worst yet if they can't pay, it either goes to collections, the hospital could sue (get a judgment on any properties, assets, garnish wages), and/or the patient ends up filing for bankruptcy (which hurts their credit even more).

I agree with @BlueWidow that the people who are involuntarily hospitalized should not be required to pay for hospital bills and any services rendered (or more accurately, forced/imposed on) to the patient and the person who is taking the person to the hospital should be on the hook (the state, concerned individuals, etc.) for them. This is basically kicking the patient while the patient is already down (due process violated, dignity, freedom of movement, civil liberties, etc.) and if anything, only makes the situation even worse. I do wish that less hospitals will admit patients in over time and perhaps if more people decide to stand up against this unjust system then perhaps the hospitals will be even less likely to commit patients especially knowing the harm it does and the fact that patients aren't willing to pay for something that is imposed on them without their consent/agreement.

Personally, I think that involuntary commitement should be abolished because not only does it violate one's privacy, freedom, but also due process since it's basically detaining someone against their will under suspicion that they are a danger to others, oneself, even though said person hasn't committed any crimes to begin with. It is also very degrading the way that the system treats the patient (almost like a prisoner/criminal), but that's another topic altogether.
 
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BlueWidow

BlueWidow

Visionary
Oct 6, 2019
2,179
Yeah the overall situation just really sucks in the US. While I never been in a psych ward or any hospital before, from stories that I've heard, most patients who can't pay it off either go to negotiate with the hospital on some payment plan, they keep fighting with the billing department (over months, years even), and then worst yet if they can't pay, it either goes to collections, the hospital could sue (get a judgment on any properties, assets, garnish wages), and/or the patient ends up filing for bankruptcy (which hurts their credit even more).

I agree with @BlueWidow that the people who are involuntarily hospitalized should not be required to pay for hospital bills and any services rendered (or more accurately, forced/imposed on) to the patient and the person who is taking the person to the hospital should be on the hook (the state, concerned individuals, etc.) for them. This is basically kicking the patient while the patient is already down (due process violated, dignity, freedom of movement, civil liberties, etc.) and if anything, only makes the situation even worse. I do wish that less hospitals will admit patients in over time and perhaps if more people decide to stand up against this unjust system then perhaps the hospitals will be even less likely to commit patients especially knowing the harm it does and the fact that patients aren't willing to pay for something that is imposed on them without their consent/agreement.

Personally, I think that involuntary commitement should be abolished because not only does it violate one's privacy, freedom, but also due process since it's basically detaining someone against their will under suspicion that they are a danger to others, oneself, even though said person hasn't committed any crimes to begin with. It is also very degrading the way that the system treats the patient (almost like a prisoner/criminal), but that's another topic altogether.


I agree with everything you said. I also feel like some hospitals may use it as some kind of a scam to earn themselves more money from people that ordinarily they wouldn't be able to get money out of. They find some person who's already in mental distress, but who doesn't need to be in the hospital. Or maybe just a random person like I was who was just tired from a physical condition that has absolutely nothing to do with depression or any other mental issue. Then they claim that person did or said something that they didn't say or do and therefore they are "justified" in involuntarily putting them in the hospital. Then they can keep them in the hospital for a minimum of 72 hours, and many times a lot longer (especially if they are a minor). And they are earning money off of them that entire time.

This happened to me over and over when I was a teenager. I got caught up in a giant insurance scam that was being conducted by a ring of criminals that included: doctors, therapists, caseworkers, judges, and a bunch of other so-called professional people.

The way it worked was, they would find a vulnerable minor and make them a ward of the state. Then, because they were a minor and didn't know the laws or their rights, they would put them in and out of the hospital at will and try to use them to collect as much money as possible from the insurance companies. I was placed in the hospital when I didn't need to be in there. I was released with full bottles of pills when I would be saying, as I went out the door, that I was going to swallow every pill. The thing is, they WANTED me to swallow the pills. Then they'd have a reason to put me back in there and squeeze more money out of my dad's insurance.
They would also constantly do things like tell me that I was leaving the hospital, including once when they told me my sister was downstairs waiting to come up and get me and take me home. (A total lie) I'd get all excited thinking that I was finally going to leave the hospital. Then sometimes less than 10 minutes later they'd come back and say,
"Oh sorry, we've changed our mind. You can't leave the hospital after all", which I would, of course, get extremely upset about. They would then use my normal response, a response anyone would have to being emotionally jerked around the way these people were doing to me, as an excuse to keep me in the hospital longer. What I found out later was that behind the scenes, one of their schemes was to tell an underage patient that they were going home. They would get the person all excited about leaving the hospital, and then after some amount of time, they would go back in and announce that they had decided that the person wasn't ready to go home after all. This would obviously make the person upset and they would react as such. Then the schemers would call the insurance company and state that the person couldn't leave the hospital because they were having an anxiety attack or a violent reaction or something. Then the insurance company would approve an extended stay in the hospital. Or, in another scenario, I would be in my therapist's office. My therapist would start saying horrible things to upset me. Then when I got upset, my therapist would say that I needed to go to the hospital immediately because I was being over emotional and I was "a danger to myself and others". None of which was true. I was just having a normal reaction to a horrible thing that they said to me. I was also fed all kinds of drugs against my will that caused me to have various reactions and emotions and that they would then report as excuses for me to be hospitalized so that they could collect even more money off my dad's insurance. It was all a huge manipulation. They were manipulating the situation and taking anything I did or said completely out of context and reporting it that way to the insurance company in order to collect more money. I was nothing more to them than a vehicle through which they could collect money. The fact that they were emotionally manipulating me and using me and the fact that I was already in a very serious and distressed emotional state didn't mean anything to them. When they looked at me they saw nothing more than dollar signs.
And I was not the only one they did this to.
From what I understand, the scheme was run by various sets of professionals in various parts of the United States all throughout the 1980s and 1990s. For all I know, it may still be going on. I wasn't allowed my own lawyer until 2 years into being made a ward of the state. It was only then that some of my rights started getting considered.

Therefore, one of the first things I did after being forced into the hospital as an adult 10 years ago, was to tell my husband to call our insurance company and tell them that I had been forced into the hospital against my will for no reason at all and that they were wasting their money.

I have a feeling if the insurance companies would cut a lot of this stuff off, or at least question more as to why the person is being forcibly placed in the hospital, they wouldn't be nearly as likely to do it if they weren't making as much or any money off of it.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: azucaramargo
A

a.h

Specialist
Jun 19, 2019
356
I am just curious to know about night checks in hospital and psych ward prison.

For those who are sure to ctb and are really afraid of getting locked up if discovered too soon can't they just hide small amount of deadly substance (like the legal, popular one we have) inside plastic wrapping when going to psych ward and if they aren't let out soon then use it at night. Or how often they check their prisoners??
If they get checked every hour there then one could use it at hospital at night after the biggest risk from failed attempt is over (when they aren't monitored at night when sleeping and don't have machines attached to them and peep the heart attack)

I am sure that at least in Europe they wouldn't and couldn't search your private places and you get to keep your clothes, back etc.
 

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