Venting Pro-lifers - what’s their agenda?

[I’vehadenough]

Love Hunter- what a ledge- I dont normally say this but I didnt even feel too sad when he ctb- it just seemed kind of so right-like he really wanted to be in control of his own personal 'story' right til the end, really sad for his wife of course-but i just think he couldnt bare the thought of bein a decrepit old man- he'd led a rich and exciting life, had written all those amazing books-cant help but feel he wanted to go out on a high note-rather than the gradual decline into old age-there are many quotes that alluded to the fact that was always how he was gonna go out- and what a funeral too! :) My favourite writer was called Richard Brautigan- he shot himself too ( even if i was in the states and had access not sure if it would be a method id have the balls to use- who knows-maybe)

Yeah, you can't go from an exciting, unpredictable life to a dull, boring one. It's impossible. That's what happened to me. No point in living. Id be afraid to use a gun too, but I know Hunter was an avid gun user, so I'm pretty sure he knew how to aim correctly

 

[TAW122]

My simple answer is that they have this instinct to project their opinions and stance on others and ingrained belief that life = good and death = bad. I do wish they would accept others' decision/choice to die instead of just writing them off as mentally ill, irrational, can't make up their own decision, etc. It's ridiculously hypocritical that they champion ALL other rights, (right to freedom of religion, choice, gay rights, human rights, and more) yet when it comes to the personal decision of whether to continue living or not, oh no, we can't have that, we must stop that person at all costs! Such fucking hypocrisy makes my blood boil and sometimes I secretly wished them ill (Note: I don't encourage illegal acts or violence against them, but no empathy for those who think it's ok to force their decision and will on others to live, especially the militant ones).

 

[Stan]

We might have a couple on the board tonight so let's ask them

 

[Passersby]

Yeah, you can't go from an exciting, unpredictable life to a dull, boring one. It's impossible. That's what happened to me. No point in living. Id be afraid to use a gun too, but I know Hunter was an avid gun user, so I'm pretty sure he knew how to aim correctly

Hello I've had enough. Yes you are absolutely right. It's is extremely hard to go from a fast paced vibrant life that is full of meaning and being able to have a good body and use it to a dull meaningless life of being crippled. It would be one thing if you were born crippled. That would be horrible also but it would be all you have ever known. But if someone had a great life up until 30 or 40 or whatever then the transition isn't doable especially depending on how severe the situation would be. It torture. Also if your younger then you have all those years to suffer before your natural death. This is why I will ctb also along with a bunch of other suffering. As far as the prolife people I think overall they mean really well but they don't understand suffering. Most people with this stance have never suffered something that's intolerable with no fix and facing many yrs of a living hell. They also say that we have no free will and our body's belong to god because he created us and therefore we don't have the right to take it regardless of any level of sufffering. Even with this opinion though I guarantee that with the right crisis a lot of them would be able to take there own lives. I believe that anybody is capable of suicide all it takes is the right crisis. For one person it might be losing your wife or husband or a breakup or for others it might take drooling on yourself in a chair looking at the wall with no hope for the rest of your time. Just depends I guess.

 

[fightingsioux]

Does anyone else think that some (not saying all) pro-lifers are actually quite selfish (at best) & mildly sadistic at worst?! Or are they just wildly misguided? Or does for some of them- someone wilfully taking their own throw their own delusions / lives into stark relief- and possibly show it for what really is? Which ever it is, I'd quite like it if they could spend even a day with the same mental or physical, anguish or pain of someone that has for whatever reason, sadly had to conclude that for them they feel they need or would simply rather just Ctb - than proceed with their life- it's like they can not wrap their brains around how someone has to actually must be feeling to reach that point-that conclusion- they don't even want to try and understand! Just as i have been told I don't even want to 'try and get better'. As if it's that simplistic & as if I haven't or wouldn't have already done so if I could & if it was that easy - like I'm just feeling like I strongly want to end my life for the fun of it...yeah good times

I assume that you're using the term pro-lifer to mean someone who thinks that suicide under any condition,for any person, is always wrong.

In my experience, these people are almost always arguing from a strong religious standpoint. Very occasionally they're looking at the issue philosophically, socially, even--believe it or not--economically. But religion is the usual rationale, and there's no point in debating with them about that, they believe what they believe. I'm a lifelong freethinking liberal atheist, and these people have never been my favorites, I avoid them.

But IMHO it would be wrong to label anyone and everyone who says that in certain situations suicide is not the best choice as a pro-lifer. There are many shades of grey to the discussion.

Personally, I feel that blanket restrictions and laws against suicide are barbaric. I stand with Exit International and the many other organizations who say that every adult of sound mind has the right to implement plans for the end of their life so that their death is reliable, peaceful and at a time of their choosing; that control over one's life & death is a fundamental human right.

Every adult of sound mind.

Just because someone here suggests to a poster that perhaps losing their boyfriend or girlfriend, or having a fight with their mom, or getting fired from their job, or feeling lonely and alone (the Human Condition) is not necessarily grounds for immediately ending it all does not make them a pro-lifer!

Yes, especially for a young person or someone who is experiencing mental ill health, these can be painful and serious issues. Life-altering issues, issues that deserve to be addressed, issues that can't be ignored. But suicide?

To close with perhaps a silly and trivial analogy but it's what comes to mind: suppose you own a house. Suppose, for whatever reason, it's absolutely the only house you can and will ever own. You post that the toilet is clogged, or the bedroom needs painting, or the grass needs mowing. You say that you can't remedy any of these problems yourself, you don't have the money to hire a plumber or painter or to buy a lawnmower, and you've decided that the best course of action is to burn the friggin' house down!

If some decent soul responds by suggesting that there are other alternatives, it does not mean that they're a pro-lifer.

 

[I’vehadenough]

Hello I've had enough. Yes you are absolutely right. It's is extremely hard to go from a fast paced vibrant life that is full of meaning and being able to have a good body and use it to a dull meaningless life of being crippled. It would be one thing if you were born crippled. That would be horrible also but it would be all you have ever known. But if someone had a great life up until 30 or 40 or whatever then the transition isn't doable especially depending on how severe the situation would be. It torture. Also if your younger then you have all those years to suffer before your natural death. This is why I will ctb also along with a bunch of other suffering. As far as the prolife people I think overall they mean really well but they don't understand suffering. Most people with this stance have never suffered something that's intolerable with no fix and facing many yrs of a living hell. They also say that we have no free will and our body's belong to god because he created us and therefore we don't have the right to take it regardless of any level of sufffering. Even with this opinion though I guarantee that with the right crisis a lot of them would be able to take there own lives. I believe that anybody is capable of suicide all it takes is the right crisis. For one person it might be losing your wife or husband or a breakup or for others it might take drooling on yourself in a chair looking at the wall with no hope for the rest of your time. Just depends I guess.

Yes, I agree. They are drawing on the commandment thou shall not murder and relating it to suicide. But soldiers murder, so how come they are saved? Also, what about the people in 911 who had to jump to their deaths to avoid burning to death? Is that not suicide? So, they tell you not to take your life, but they offer no alternatives
Everyone has a breaking point. Most are lucky they never experience it. The Bible also says man cannot live by bread alone. Meaning, we need others, we need relationships, love, etc. If your disability is so bad, you are forced in isolation, how are you expected to go on? By staring at the TV for 50 more years? How do you even do that after living a wild life like Thompson's? Impossible.

I assume that you're using the term pro-lifer to mean someone who thinks that suicide under any condition,for any person, is always wrong.

In my experience, these people are almost always arguing from a strong religious standpoint. Very occasionally they're looking at the issue philosophically, socially, even--believe it or not--economically. But religion is the usual rationale, and there's no point in debating with them about that, they believe what they believe. I'm a lifelong freethinking liberal atheist, and these people have never been my favorites, I avoid them.

But IMHO it would be wrong to label anyone and everyone who says that in certain situations suicide is not the best choice as a pro-lifer. There are many shade of grey to the discussion.

Personally, I feel that blanket restrictions and laws against suicide are barbaric. I stand with Exit International and the many other organizations who say that every adult of sound mind has the right to implement plans for the end of their life so that their death is reliable, peaceful and at a time of their choosing; that control over one's life & death is a fundamental human right.

Every adult of sound mind.

Just because someone here suggests to a poster that perhaps losing their boyfriend or girlfriend, or having a fight with their mom, or getting fired from their job, or feeling lonely and alone (the Human Condition) is not necessarily grounds for immediately ending it all does not make them a pro-lifer!

Yes, especially for a young person or someone who is experiencing mental ill health, these can be painful and serious issues. Life-altering issues, issues that deserve to be addressed, issues that can't be ignored. But suicide?

To close with perhaps a silly and trivial analogy but it's what comes to mind: suppose you own a house. Suppose, for whatever reason, it's absolutely the only house you can and will ever own. You post that the toilet is clogged, or the bedroom needs painting, or the grass needs mowing. You say that you can't remedy any of these problems yourself, you don't have the money to hire a plumber or painter or to buy a lawnmower, and you've decided that the best course of action is to burn the friggin' house down!

If some decent soul responds by suggesting that there are other alternatives, it does not mean that they're a pro-lifer.

I think it's mainly younger people that want to ctb over broken relationships. The tragedy is when you really do have a life alternating problem with no solution and you are unable to get assisted suicide, either bc you aren't terminally ill or physically dying. There are conditions in which a normal human can't tolerate.

 

[MeltingHeart]

Performing a CtB is selfish.
Stopping a CtB is selfish.

I dont think it necessarily is always

 

[WhiteDespair]

I dont think it necessarily is always

Each side can claim selfishness on the other. Some people can CtB altruistically. Some CtB interventions are the absolute, correct action.

It's interesting to think about the interactions between them.

 

[MeltingHeart]

I assume that you're using the term pro-lifer to mean someone who thinks that suicide under any condition,for any person, is always wrong.

In my experience, these people are almost always arguing from a strong religious standpoint. Very occasionally they're looking at the issue philosophically, socially, even--believe it or not--economically. But religion is the usual rationale, and there's no point in debating with them about that, they believe what they believe. I'm a lifelong freethinking liberal atheist, and these people have never been my favorites, I avoid them.

But IMHO it would be wrong to label anyone and everyone who says that in certain situations suicide is not the best choice as a pro-lifer. There are many shade of grey to the discussion.

Personally, I feel that blanket restrictions and laws against suicide are barbaric. I stand with Exit International and the many other organizations who say that every adult of sound mind has the right to implement plans for the end of their life so that their death is reliable, peaceful and at a time of their choosing; that control over one's life & death is a fundamental human right.

Every adult of sound mind.

Just because someone here suggests to a poster that perhaps losing their boyfriend or girlfriend, or having a fight with their mom, or getting fired from their job, or feeling lonely and alone (the Human Condition) is not necessarily grounds for immediately ending it all does not make them a pro-lifer!

Yes, especially for a young person or someone who is experiencing mental ill health, these can be painful and serious issues. Life-altering issues, issues that deserve to be addressed, issues that can't be ignored. But suicide?

To close with perhaps a silly and trivial analogy but it's what comes to mind: suppose you own a house. Suppose, for whatever reason, it's absolutely the only house you can and will ever own. You post that the toilet is clogged, or the bedroom needs painting, or the grass needs mowing. You say that you can't remedy any of these problems yourself, you don't have the money to hire a plumber or painter or to buy a lawnmower, and you've decided that the best course of action is to burn the friggin' house down!

If some decent soul responds by suggesting that there are other alternatives, it does not mean that they're a pro-lifer.

This is prob one of the best posts I have read on here - thku for yr response - I agree with most things & I like the house metaphor (analogy?- I always get those confused). I've seen on occasion people jump down people throats on here that they are 'pro-lifers' when suggesting alternatives. In my own personal situation - I am being suggested such ridiculous things by people that are pretending to care - that never ever did before -and still in all honestly don't - except for selfish reason- when I am so past that point -that's it is offensive to me -but that is my own personal story- if id said some of the things i am saying now years ago to kind people and they hadnt tried to posit some alternatives or offer up other ways of looking at things that too would have been upsetting-sadly there was no one around that took the time to listen to me anyway - so equally sad - in a different way and not suggesting generally that genuine people that love & care for someone in great despair shouldn't atleast try an offer up alternatives/ intervene and such like...