Discussion Pro life shit we've probably heard before

[pony No.2]

"Your life has value!"
If it does, then why am I seen as not valuable when I'm depressed and can't get up to do anything, and then I lose my job because guess what, I'm not a valuable employee. If you're not a valuable employee then you get no money. What makes a person's life valuable if they have nothing they want to offer? What's valuable about being suicidal for years? And according to how everything costs money and how everything revolves around working, not really. If you can't work or find alternatives to making income, your life, according to how society operates, is not valuable.

"It gets better!"
Depending on several factors, no it probably won't. Learning to cope and live with your pain and trauma is not getting better, it's being compliant with what society wants you to do with your own life or else they'll lock you away until you're "sane". Also define better, being happy doesn't mean you're better, being healthy doesn't mean you're better neither. You can be unhealthy and happy, you can be healthy and not happy and be depressed. Forcing someone to live so they can get "better" is not a guarantee if they will get better. Loophole.

"You have to keep going!"
A person with free will doesn't have to do anything, whether or not if society likes it. Nobody is obligated to keep living regardless. And for what? To keep contributing to a world that doesn't like it when a person makes their own decisions?

"Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem!"
If someone's suicidal or depressed, and especially for years, chances are their problems aren't temporary. And lots of mental illnesses, physical disabilities, and neurodevelopmental disabilities, aren't temporary. Trauma, depending on the person and the type of trauma they received and how it's affected them, can be permanent. Temporary problems can also cause permanent problems, so that argument makes no sense.

A question I have for pro lifers is, why does society force traumatized, or extremely depressed individuals, to live while knowing they don't have any alternatives to offer those people that are guaranteed to make them, "better" or stop their suffering, when making the choice of commiting suicide is a much better option than staying and dealing with more problems they don't want to face, needlessly suffer and be depressed?

They care about the value of life and preserving it, not the individuals personal beliefs or struggles, and definitely not what they're going through. Because they think they can fix every. Single. Fucking. Thing. When they can't.
Living without choice is a life without a voice, that person is alive now that you stopped them, but now they have to face the problems and irreversible causes for their suicidal thoughts. Did you really save them at all? And save them from what? A life they don't want for valid reasons? You're not saving anyone, you're just preventing them from making a choice that'll guarantee no more suffering, unlike living.

 

[k41tlynn]

the fact that our existence kills the earth is proof enough to me that humans are parasitic. IDC about birthing more humans to maintain our workforce. I'm just gonna have fun and leave when I stop being adored and it gets hard

 

[myattempt]

They don't want to be apart or see people dying within their vicinity- it makes them uncomfortable and feel responsible- but they are always okay with being the indirect cause of someone's death - it's all performative

 

[dragonofenvy]

"It gets better!"
Depending on several factors, no it probably won't. Learning to cope and live with your pain and trauma is not getting better, it's being compliant with what society wants you to do with your own life or else they'll lock you away until you're "sane". Also define better, being happy doesn't mean you're better, being healthy doesn't mean you're better neither. You can be unhealthy and happy, you can be healthy and not happy and be depressed. Forcing someone to live so they can get "better" is not a guarantee if they will get better. Loophole.

I've been trying to explain this to mental health professionals forever. Spending you entire life coping is not a life worth living. It really should be a pretty basic concept yet it eludes them. I almost wonder if they're intentionally misunderstanding what I'm saying. Yes, people who have had trauma and pain do get better. I've seen people heal and live happier lives despite their trauma. Some people though go from a 3/100 to a 6/100 and are stuck. Oh boy guys I doubled my happiness! Life's worth living now!

Not every disease has a cure. Why would it not be the same for diseases of the mind?

 

[LostHighway]

"Your life has value!"
If it does, then why am I seen as not valuable when in depressed and can't get up to do anything, and then I lose my job because guess what, I'm not a valuable employee. If you're not a valuable employee then you get no money. What makes a person's life valuable if they have nothing they want to offer? What's valuable about being suicidal for years? And according to how everything costs money and how everything revolves around working, not really. If you can't work or find alternatives to making income, your life, according to how society operates, is not valuable.

"It gets better!"
Depending on several factors, no it probably won't. Learning to cope and live with your pain and trauma is not getting better, it's being compliant with what society wants you to do with your own life or else they'll lock you away until you're "sane". Also define better, being happy doesn't mean you're better, being healthy doesn't mean you're better neither. You can be unhealthy and happy, you can be healthy and not happy and be depressed. Forcing someone to live so they can get "better" is not a guarantee if they will get better. Loophole.

"You have to keep going!"
A person with free will doesn't have to do anything, whether or not if society likes it. Nobody is obligated to keep living regardless. And for what? To keep contributing to a world that doesn't like it when a person makes their own decisions?

"Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem!"
If someone's suicidal or depressed, and especially for years, chances are their problems aren't temporary. And lots of mental illnesses, physical disabilities, and neurodevelopmental disabilities, aren't temporary. Trauma, depending on the person and the type of trauma they received and how it's affected them, can be permanent. Temporary problems can also cause permanent problems, so that argument makes no sense.

A question I have for pro lifers is, why does society force traumatized, or extremely depressed individuals, to live while knowing they don't have any alternatives to offer those people that are guaranteed to make them, "better" or stop their suffering, when making the choice of commiting suicide is a much better option than staying and dealing with more problems they don't want to face needlessly suffer and be depressed?

They care about the value of life and preserving it, not the individuals personal beliefs or struggles, and definitely not what they're going through. Because they think they can fix every. Single. Fucking. Thing. When they can't.
Living without choice is a life without a voice, that person is alive now that you stopped them, but now they have to face the problems and irreversible causes for their suicidal thoughts. Did you really save them at all? And save them from what? A life they don't want for valid reasons? You're not saving anyone, you're just preventing them from making a choice that'll guarantee no more suffering, unlike living.

The people telling you your life has value, it gets better and you have to keep going love you and they are doing everything they can to keep you alive. It's not their fault for trying. They're not "pro-lifers" They're pro YOU. They likely feel helpless watching you suffer. I'm speaking for myself here. I've heard all the comments you've gotten. I don't resent my loved ones for wanting me to stick around. They can't fathom what I'm going through that led me to this point, but it's not their fault that they can't. My friends have helped me in the past find ways to deal with my issues. They DID come to my rescue. And so did anti-depressants. And a LOT of work on myself. I'm choosing to die now because I can't sleep. I don't want to be angry at anyone who wants to change my mind. That's because they love me. I hope you are loved too, whether you choose to CTB or live.

As for "it gets better" - it DOES GET BETTER for millions of people who are suffering. That expression was coined in 2010 or 2011 and was intended for gay teens who were being bullied in grade school and high school. It sure does get better for them as they go off to college and start a life.

 

[pony No.2]

As for "it gets better" - it DOES GET BETTER for millions of people who are suffering.

And what about the other millions of people? You do realize getting "better" varies and is basically opinion based, you can get better in the head and be unhealthy in the body, or better in the body and unhealthy in head, or healthy in both, doesn't mean it's "better". Define better.

And this isn't about other people who managed to get better, this is about people who haven't, don't want to, or can't. If they did manage to then good for them, how does that change my situation? How does that affect me? Just because they managed to get better doesn't mean I or anyone else is guaranteed to. Everyone is affected by trauma differently, copes, and behaves differently. These people who got better haven't been through what I have, even if they did, they're not me and I'm not them.

The people telling you your life has value, it gets better and you have to keep going love you and they are doing everything they can to keep you alive

Love is a stretch. I hear those things from absolute strangers, including mental health "professionals".

I don't resent my loved ones for wanting me to stick around. They can't fathom what I'm going through that led me to this point, but it's not their fault that they can't.

Well I do. If they can't fathom what I'm going through then they have absolutely no say in whether or not if I live and have no right to enforce their beliefs onto me if they can't see my perspective and what I've been through for years.

My friends have helped me in the past find ways to deal with my issues. They DID come to my rescue. And so did anti-depressants. And a LOT of work on myself.

My friends were powerless when it came to my problems, they didn't know how to help. My antidepressants didn't do shit. I'm not working on myself because I don't care about myself or what happens to me.

I hope you are loved too, whether you choose to CTB or live.

Oh I am loved, but conditionally, and temporarily. All it takes is one minor inconvenience or argument.

 

[LostHighway]

And what about the other millions of people? You do realize getting "better" varies and is basically opinion based, you can get better in the head and be unhealthy in the body, or better in the body and unhealthy in head, or healthy in both, doesn't mean it's "better". Define better.

And this isn't about other people who managed to get better, this is about people who haven't, don't want to, or can't. If they did manage to then good for them, how does that change my situation? How does that affect me? Just because they managed to get better doesn't mean I or anyone else is guaranteed to. Everyone is affected by trauma differently, copes, and behaves differently. These people who got better haven't been through what I have, even if they did, they're not me and I'm not them.

Love is a stretch. I hear those things from absolute strangers, including mental health "professionals".

Well I do. If they can't fathom what I'm going through then they have absolutely no say in whether or not if I live and have no right to enforce their beliefs onto me if they can't see my perspective and what I've been through for years.

My friends were powerless when it came to my problems, they didn't know how to help. My antidepressants didn't do shit. I'm not working on myself because I don't care about myself or what happens to me.

Oh I am loved, but conditionally, and temporarily. All it takes is one minor inconvenience or argument.

I'm so sorry you're suffering. I'm a stranger and I feel the compulsion to want to help. But I acknowledge all that you're saying.

I truly think most people only have the best intentions when they say "It gets better", either because of their own experiences, or just trying their best to help someone through a rough time. (It sure got better for me. I was in living HELL of depression for years, but got out of it and had some wonderful life experiences. If I was able to get out of it, I think many other people can.)

I personally want to CTB for health reasons. I can't sleep.

Most people cannot fathom the pain most of us here are struggling with. It doesn't mean they don't care. Yeah, most relationships are conditional, I suppose. They need to be nurtured to stay alive. There are good people out there.... Wishing you some peace- whatever the outcome.

 

[Pluto]