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trappedinthislife
Student
- May 13, 2024
- 106
Yeah, especially when the world is worsening every day. There's no knowing what a new person will have to endure. It's best to not tamper with them.
Agon321
I use google translate
- Aug 21, 2023
- 1,621
Not anymore. There was a time I did agree but then it stopped making sense because it is anti-choice and not very practical. I also find it a bit extreme and counter-productive to label all child-bearing immoral and lumping parents all together as a homogeneous group, when there are better and worse parents. We should advocate for people to become better parents and make better choices if they pursue that route, not to take away their choice to bear children or not.
Pluto
Cat Extremist
- Dec 27, 2020
- 5,229
A sensible assessment of this needs nuance, and hopefully we are all of a mind to be respectful to any parents who are a part of our community.
What I have learned in life is that it is so easy to have a romanticised idea of parenthood, or even to become a parent 'by accident', that it is almost a rare accomplishment to reach middle-age without procreating. However, the younger generation are much more thoughtful, as they should be in light of the world's escalating economic, geopolitical and ecological issues.
I've identified key ingredients that generally need to be available for parenthood to be a healthy experience:
1) Easy money (i.e., a decent income that doesn't entail excessive work hours, commuting or stress)
2) Trustworthy and supportive (grand)parents, who might actually do a lot of the work and enable a life outside of parenting
3) A good partner
4) A decent community and culture, possibly including a healthy extended family
5) Good physical health
6) Healthy genes, as any sort of physical or mental ailments multiply the difficulty of parenting
7) Good mental health, even when sleep-deprived or placed under heavy stress
8) A solid understanding of developmental psychology and the needs of children
9) Awareness of any generational trauma and a willingness to do whatever it takes to minimise it being passed down
10) Damn, it feels like there should be ten but I can't think of any. Um... must have a cat. And no Dark Triad people anywhere in sight.
I would score poorly on most of those points and I am blessed that I never had a chance to be a parent anyway. Anyone who doesn't understand the importance of these factors (which are often outside of our control) could be in for a really bumpy ride. A sobering case of caveat emptor.
People who score highly will tend to raise healthy and happy families who would never go anywhere near a website like this, and it would be disingenuous to dismiss their experience just because they are not here.
So again, the final assessment includes a lot of nuance.
What I have learned in life is that it is so easy to have a romanticised idea of parenthood, or even to become a parent 'by accident', that it is almost a rare accomplishment to reach middle-age without procreating. However, the younger generation are much more thoughtful, as they should be in light of the world's escalating economic, geopolitical and ecological issues.
I've identified key ingredients that generally need to be available for parenthood to be a healthy experience:
1) Easy money (i.e., a decent income that doesn't entail excessive work hours, commuting or stress)
2) Trustworthy and supportive (grand)parents, who might actually do a lot of the work and enable a life outside of parenting
3) A good partner
4) A decent community and culture, possibly including a healthy extended family
5) Good physical health
6) Healthy genes, as any sort of physical or mental ailments multiply the difficulty of parenting
7) Good mental health, even when sleep-deprived or placed under heavy stress
8) A solid understanding of developmental psychology and the needs of children
9) Awareness of any generational trauma and a willingness to do whatever it takes to minimise it being passed down
10) Damn, it feels like there should be ten but I can't think of any. Um... must have a cat. And no Dark Triad people anywhere in sight.
I would score poorly on most of those points and I am blessed that I never had a chance to be a parent anyway. Anyone who doesn't understand the importance of these factors (which are often outside of our control) could be in for a really bumpy ride. A sobering case of caveat emptor.
People who score highly will tend to raise healthy and happy families who would never go anywhere near a website like this, and it would be disingenuous to dismiss their experience just because they are not here.
So again, the final assessment includes a lot of nuance.
ijustwishtodie
I have finally found my ultimate bliss
- Oct 29, 2023
- 5,796
No because, to be an antinatalist, I'd have to believe that procreation will always be morally wrong no matter what the situation is like. I believe that procreation can be morally neutral if we lived in a world where we don't have to wage slave and be responsible hence this makes me not be an antinatalist.
As of right now, I believe that procreation is wrong because there isn't an easy guaranteed way to die. If there was an easy guaranteed way to die that everybody can access, maybe I would conclude that procreation is morally neutral
As of right now, I believe that procreation is wrong because there isn't an easy guaranteed way to die. If there was an easy guaranteed way to die that everybody can access, maybe I would conclude that procreation is morally neutral
It's not a simple yes or no. I second what @Pluto already said.
Personally I never intended to procreate, I never intended to have kids - and to me it was the best decision I ever made - but I'm also not an antinatalist bc it's a natural behavior of all living beings to procreate to keep the species alive. However we humans should be intelligent enough to procreate thoughtfully.
Personally I never intended to procreate, I never intended to have kids - and to me it was the best decision I ever made - but I'm also not an antinatalist bc it's a natural behavior of all living beings to procreate to keep the species alive. However we humans should be intelligent enough to procreate thoughtfully.
L0neW0lf
i lost myself
- Apr 16, 2024
- 61
Dark Window
Forest Wanderer
- Mar 12, 2024
- 548
No because it's never going to work
I think it's a useful movement though because if it convinces many ppl not to have kids then that's a good thing.
We need less people.
AN is good but you'll never convince the species as a whole to do it.
I think it's a useful movement though because if it convinces many ppl not to have kids then that's a good thing.
We need less people.
AN is good but you'll never convince the species as a whole to do it.
No, the process that brought all of the people I love into the world isn't a bad one. It just didn't work out for me in the end...but it did for quite a while and I was happy for those experiences. And I am much happier that the people I love exist now or did exist and the world would have been a much lesser place without them. The world should have people going forward to continue the good things humanity has accomplished. I just don't need to be one of them anymore.
For me personally- definitely. I don't think my children would have turned out happy and that would have broken my heart.
I don't exactly think it's always an immoral act. I think it's often done with good intentions. I just think it's enormously risky and most of that risk falls on that new life. I'm pro choice and, seeing as there's no way of giving a person the choice on whether to come here, it seems safer to leave them be- most likely oblivious to what they could potentially be missing out on.
Of course, if life was easier or, if it was easier to leave this place, I might feel differently. But, the simple fact is- so many choices are already made for us- our genes, our upbringing, what will be expected of us. Or, we'll be expected to comply with certain things or face (the likely horrible) circumstances. That doesn't seem fair to me to birth a sentient being in to and just hope they'll either not notice or, be ok with it.
Plus, in terms of the environment and the other creatures who are stuck sharing this world with us, I think it would be better if there were fewer of us.
I don't exactly think it's always an immoral act. I think it's often done with good intentions. I just think it's enormously risky and most of that risk falls on that new life. I'm pro choice and, seeing as there's no way of giving a person the choice on whether to come here, it seems safer to leave them be- most likely oblivious to what they could potentially be missing out on.
Of course, if life was easier or, if it was easier to leave this place, I might feel differently. But, the simple fact is- so many choices are already made for us- our genes, our upbringing, what will be expected of us. Or, we'll be expected to comply with certain things or face (the likely horrible) circumstances. That doesn't seem fair to me to birth a sentient being in to and just hope they'll either not notice or, be ok with it.
Plus, in terms of the environment and the other creatures who are stuck sharing this world with us, I think it would be better if there were fewer of us.
UmbraDweller
.
- Sep 15, 2023
- 138
It's ultimately wrong to bring people in here. At the same time antinatalism in practical world is no solution. It works only in theory. In real world it applies only on a small scale if you manage to change mind of individuals which is still good thing. But for it to be legit solution, everyone would need to stop procreating, which is impossible. I'm just doing my part by not having a kid myself, but let others live in their bubbles since I can't do anything about it. I don't believe people are necessarily evil for procreating though, since they are just simply following what they have been told is a desirable life goal and their natural instinct. But as a philosophy I do agree with it.
Infinite Solipsist
Member
- Jun 20, 2024
- 89
That's the main issue isn't it? I would argue that 90%-95% of all people who become parents don't fulfill more than 2 out of 10 of the criteria that you listed. Numbers 1,8, and 9 being especially unlikely.
pthnrdnojvsc
Extreme Pain is much worse than people know
- Aug 12, 2019
- 3,492
I think it's wrong to have children under any circumstances.
If you have a child u will be responsible for every bit of suffering that child suffers and their descendants and all beings that suffer because they lived for example that cow kept cooped up suffering to provide meat and milk
If you have a child u will be responsible for every bit of suffering that child suffers and their descendants and all beings that suffer because they lived for example that cow kept cooped up suffering to provide meat and milk
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