Police SN visits – what's next?

[FuneralGrey]

I've been reading through reports of LE visits from lots of people. Some people seem to have been raided/searched, forced to hand over SN or go to hospital, or they were just asked a question or two and LE left them alone. Some were told Canada would be in contact with them or the police would come back.

The visits seem to all be being done under the guise of "wellness checks" but I think most of us agree it seems pretty clear that they're trying to get more info to build a case against KL and they're not really interested in our wellness. I got two visits myself and they didn't tell me either way if they'd be back.

I know a lot of us are worried about follow-up visits or surprise searches. I'm just curious – what do you think happens next?

Like a lot of you, I'm so stressed out I can barely function. They kept saying I wasn't in trouble but I'm still scared. I just want to know what's going to happen next. Is it over after the wellness checks? Do we think we're all going to get more visits to try to get more information? I really don't know what to think. I'm wondering what everyone else thinks.

 

[Superdeterminist]

I've been reading through reports of LE visits from lots of people. Some people seem to have been raided/searched, forced to hand over SN or go to hospital, or they were just asked a question or two and LE left them alone. Some were told Canada would be in contact with them or the police would come back.

The visits seem to all be being done under the guise of "wellness checks" but I think most of us agree it seems pretty clear that they're trying to get more info to build a case against KL and they're not really interested in our wellness. I got two visits myself and they didn't tell me either way if they'd be back.

I know a lot of us are worried about follow-up visits or surprise searches. I'm just curious – what do you think happens next?

Like a lot of you, I'm so stressed out I can barely function. They kept saying I wasn't in trouble but I'm still scared. I just want to know what's going to happen next. Is it over after the wellness checks? Do we think we're all going to get more visits to try to get more information? I really don't know what to think. I'm wondering what everyone else thinks.

They love that line "you're not in trouble" but I don't trust anything they say. Best to avoid talking to them as much as possible. That's what lawyers are for. I agree it's horribly stressful.

 

[FuneralGrey]

They love that line "you're not in trouble" but I don't trust anything they say. Best to avoid talking to them as much as possible. That's what lawyers are for. I agree it's horribly stressful.

Yes, I've decided I'll get legal advice if I get any more visits. Just really hoping it's all over. My heart starts racing every time I hear footsteps outside my door now.

 

[Forever Sleep]

My main worry is that our governments will no doubt be trying to make the substance illegal for an individual to own- that's the logical next step I would have thought for them- to force people to use more brutal methods in the hopes fear will put everyone off. I suppose it's tricky for them because it does have legitimate uses. Still- I bet they're working on it.

It's then, I'm going to REALLY start to worry. They already know who has it now. I guess you could lie and say you disposed of it but I'm a terrible liar. If that happens- I can see myself either surrendering it to them, or- if circumstances align, (I'm waiting on my Dad to go first- I think my CTB would devastate him) using it before they come.

That's the thing- if they do ever make it illegal- I reckon people will just go ahead and CTB- even if they intended to hold on for longer. They must realise this but it wouldn't surprise me if they just try and do it anyway- for the 'greater good' type thing.

It will be so shit if that happens. Means we're back to all the horrifically violent and messy means. Plus- we're on their radar now. That's the worst thing for me I think. Till now, I've only had one brief stint with anti- depressants. So- it wouldn't even occur to the authorities to scrutinize why I might be buying stuff. I just wonder now if that will change. I don't know- perhaps I'm just being paranoid...

I feel like you do though- this whole thing has been really stressful. Ironically- it was the crisis team they put me in touch with who made me feel even worse. I'm just hoping they don't call again.

 

[seekingpeacefulend]

I'm wondering if selling this type of stuff knowing it's for ctb why have sellers not destroyed records once items sent and received. Been scammed too many times in past so would never order online.

 

[silentdude122]

Visited me too don't stress bro lol

 

[TraumaEscapee:)]

Some people might find this funny. When they came to mine they asked if I had any SN and I asked what it was they explained (I was playing dumb) and I asked what it looked like (again playing dumb) they mentioned it was a white powder. I said "Yes I've got white powder darling, it's my vanish oxyaction it's what I use to wash my clothes". I find it funny but not everyone will. Apparently my details were on a list.

 

[msocks]

Some people might find this funny. When they came to mine they asked if I had any SN and I asked what it was they explained (I was playing dumb) and I asked what it looked like (again playing dumb) they mentioned it was a white powder. I said "Yes I've got white powder darling, it's my vanish oxyaction it's what I use to wash my clothes". I find it funny but not everyone will. Apparently my details were on a list.

It gave me a laugh. I wouldn't have been able to keep a straight face.

 

[FireWalkWithMe]

I guess what is now is you look after the items in question...

Followed by trying not to worry too much. It's not to your advantage if you sit there worrying every waking moment about the police coming. You can't control it so it's pointless. You need to be able to think clearly if that does happen. Some people gave away their item because they weren't thinking, even though they had no requirement to. That shows the danger of panic.

 

[nosoul]

Visited me too don't stress bro lol

What did you say?

 

[silentdude122]

What did you say?

Looked them in the eye and said no clue what you're talking about bye

 

[nosoul]

Looked them in the eye and said no clue what you're talking about bye

They had no records of u buying it? SI or ccn?

 

[FuneralGrey]

My main worry is that our governments will no doubt be trying to make the substance illegal for an individual to own- that's the logical next step I would have thought for them- to force people to use more brutal methods in the hopes fear will put everyone off. I suppose it's tricky for them because it does have legitimate uses. Still- I bet they're working on it.

It's then, I'm going to REALLY start to worry. They already know who has it now. I guess you could lie and say you disposed of it but I'm a terrible liar. If that happens- I can see myself either surrendering it to them, or- if circumstances align, (I'm waiting on my Dad to go first- I think my CTB would devastate him) using it before they come.

That's the thing- if they do ever make it illegal- I reckon people will just go ahead and CTB- even if they intended to hold on for longer. They must realise this but it wouldn't surprise me if they just try and do it anyway- for the 'greater good' type thing.

I'm sorry you've had to go through a check too that has left you feeling worse.

A small part of me thought/is thinking about doing SN very soon, even though that wasn't my original plan. I would hope that if enough of us ctb by SN right after these "wellness checks" they would get the message that they're harmful, but of course, that's just wishful thinking and they probably wouldn't care.

Like you, I do think it will become much more tightly regulated in most countries in the near future. They can't make it illegal, I don't think, since it's so widely used, but they can definitely restrict access, track purchases, etc., like they do for other chemicals like fertilizers that can be used to make explosives.

FWIF, if they do regulate it, I highly doubt they'll be back again to try to get it from you. They won't care about who already has it so much as they'll monitor future purchases. But I am also slightly paranoid myself, so who knows, at this point... They've already created such a wasteful and excessive response for the IC shutdown that anything is possible.

I'm wondering if selling this type of stuff knowing it's for ctb why have sellers not destroyed records once items sent and received. Been scammed too many times in past so would never order online.

That is one of the aspects of this that makes me so mad. KL knew what he was doing, but it was all perfectly legal. Then he had to go around offer "consultations," which is entirely illegal and what has causes this whole mess. He definitely should have been destroying customer records too.

 

[TheSpookyNameGuy]

No warrant pal? then piss off.

Shut the door and go back to whatever it was you were doing

 

[William01]

I'm sorry you've had to go through a check too that has left you feeling worse.

A small part of me thought/is thinking about doing SN very soon, even though that wasn't my original plan. I would hope that if enough of us ctb by SN right after these "wellness checks" they would get the message that they're harmful, but of course, that's just wishful thinking and they probably wouldn't care.

Like you, I do think it will become much more tightly regulated in most countries in the near future. They can't make it illegal, I don't think, since it's so widely used, but they can definitely restrict access, track purchases, etc., like they do for other chemicals like fertilizers that can be used to make explosives.

FWIF, if they do regulate it, I highly doubt they'll be back again to try to get it from you. They won't care about who already has it so much as they'll monitor future purchases. But I am also slightly paranoid myself, so who knows, at this point... They've already created such a wasteful and excessive response for the IC shutdown that anything is possible.

That is one of the aspects of this that makes me so mad. KL knew what he was doing, but it was all perfectly legal. Then he had to go around offer "consultations," which is entirely illegal and what has causes this whole mess. He definitely should have been destroying customer records too.

Yes I am also very worried about police coming back as well. I can relate to that feeling of doing it quicker than planned to be on safe side, I have had thought of this as well.

Wheb I was in contact with KL via email, I stated l, "I'm sure you know why I want this"... can't believe he didn't destroy the records.. but then again maybe it was payment records through ti the account ppl paid, or maybe the recorded delivery system he used in Canada.. so hiding all this was impossible.

 

[FuneralGrey]

nothing can happen you bought a product that was legal while it was legal under the law.

They can't arrest you for owning/possessing SN. If they're conducting a criminal investigation and you lie to them, you could be charged with some form of obstruction of justice, depending on your jurisdiction, although I find it extremely unlikely they would go to that length.

However – it doesn't matter if you haven't done anything illegal. They can still harass you if they want, especially under the guise of "wellness checks."

 

[Forever Sleep]

I'm sorry you've had to go through a check too that has left you feeling worse.

A small part of me thought/is thinking about doing SN very soon, even though that wasn't my original plan. I would hope that if enough of us ctb by SN right after these "wellness checks" they would get the message that they're harmful, but of course, that's just wishful thinking and they probably wouldn't care.

Like you, I do think it will become much more tightly regulated in most countries in the near future. They can't make it illegal, I don't think, since it's so widely used, but they can definitely restrict access, track purchases, etc., like they do for other chemicals like fertilizers that can be used to make explosives.

FWIF, if they do regulate it, I highly doubt they'll be back again to try to get it from you. They won't care about who already has it so much as they'll monitor future purchases. But I am also slightly paranoid myself, so who knows, at this point... They've already created such a wasteful and excessive response for the IC shutdown that anything is possible.

That is one of the aspects of this that makes me so mad. KL knew what he was doing, but it was all perfectly legal. Then he had to go around offer "consultations," which is entirely illegal and what has causes this whole mess. He definitely should have been destroying customer records too.

Yes- I agree with you- I think it will push people into doing it early (ironically.) Especially if they make it illegal to have. Hmmm, I hope you're right- that they won't be back.

Yeah- it certainly puzzles me- the whole KL giving advice on how to use his products to CTB. At first- I simply didn't believe what that news article said. Why would he even need to outright say what his products COULD be used for? People who are buying for that use surely already know. I can't imagine that many people even asking questions like that. Most are keen to hide what they really want it for.

I don't know. From what we've read- about him seeing his Mum suffer after a stroke- he seemed to have a srong belief in what he was doing- one I expect we all appreciate. Maybe- as the years went by without opposition- he got confident enough to be open about his beliefs.

It's a tricky one really. A part of me feels bad that he may get into very deep trouble for trying to help others who were desperately suffering. Plus, we're all upset snd worried that we have lost this source. On the other- I don't know what to think really. I'm not sure I could do it. Mostly of course because it's teetering on being illegal. Still- even if it was legal- not so sure I could just give someone the means to CTB- just because they paid me. That probably sounds hypocritical seeing as I would say the majority of people ARE likely mentally competant to make the decision. I just don't know if I could handle the responsibility of giving hundreds of people the means. Of course- there shouldn't be the need for 'mavericks' like KL- there ought to be official routes to obtain assisted suicide that are available (with assesments of course) to mentally capable adults.

 

[FuneralGrey]

It's a tricky one really. A part of me feels bad that he may get into very deep trouble for trying to help others who were desperately suffering. Plus, we're all upset snd worried that we have lost this source. On the other- I don't know what to think really. I'm not sure I could do it. Mostly of course because it's teetering on being illegal. Still- even if it was legal- not so sure I could just give someone the means to CTB- just because they paid me. That probably sounds hypocritical seeing as I would say the majority of people ARE likely mentally competant to make the decision. I just don't know if I could handle the responsibility of giving hundreds of people the means. Of course- there shouldn't be the need for 'mavericks' like KL- there ought to be official routes to obtain assisted suicide that are available (with assesments of course) to mentally capable adults.

I think his intentions started out well – helping give a more humane option to people who suffer greatly, like his mom might have. But instructing customers on how to use the product for best results (which I think he is alleged of doing) no longer just teeters on illegal, it is. They wouldn't have been able to do anything, as far as I know, if he was just selling SN.

I agree with you that suicide ought to be permissible for mentally capable adults, but I think that's part of the problem, too. Someone like KL (supposedly an engineer and chef) really can't say whether or not the people he is advising are competent, certain and fully aware of what they're doing. He might have given advice to people in crisis who would have wanted to live in a few weeks or months.

 

[Forever Sleep]

the thing is if only he was giving us the means. if we need a complex regime he didn't give us anything.

True- it wasn't exactly a kit he was selling and of course- it's up to the individual at the end of the day. I agree- it's not like he was encouraging anyone to do it. Although- that piece in the newspaper made it sound a bit like he was selling it rather than just giving advice- the whole part about it being a reliable poison if a war breaks out etc. (Paraphrasing- can't seem to find the thread where they posted the article and don't want to pay a subscription to read it!) Plus really- he was taking an enormous risk actually giving advice on how to use it for CTB. (If he really did that.)

While it's more effective with the protocol- it is a potentially lethal substance on it's own- so- I'd definitely disagree that he 'didn't give us anything.' He was one of the few people willing to sell to individuals also. In many countries- it can only be purchased by registered companies and I suspect many companies are being extra careful now.

I think his intentions started out well – helping give a more humane option to people who suffer greatly, like his mom might have. But instructing customers on how to use the product for best results (which I think he is alleged of doing) no longer just teeters on illegal, it is. They wouldn't have been able to do anything, as far as I know, if he was just selling SN.

I agree with you that suicide ought to be permissible for mentally capable adults, but I think that's part of the problem, too. Someone like KL (supposedly an engineer and chef) really can't say whether or not the people he is advising are competent, certain and fully aware of what they're doing. He might have given advice to people in crisis who would have wanted to live in a few weeks or months.

Yeah- I agree entirely with this. I can see that he could well have set this up from compassion for people who are suffering- plus- a belief we all share that we ought to have the right to choose. I think- if this is/was the case- he was incredibly brave. There's also a cynical side to me though that wonders if he just saw a niche market here. I don't know. It's unfair to comment really when I don't know him.

Still- the whole thing has made me think a lot... I started a poll in the 'off-topic' section to see if other people would be willing to do what he did IF IT WAS LEGAL. While I'm so grateful for his service- (if I come to use it and it works without putting me through agony,) I don't think I could do it myself- for the reasons you put forward. I don't feel qualified to judge who is in a capable state to make that decision. It's not my place to decide either. Really- the ideal would be for assisted suicide to be globally legalised and properly regulated. Anyway- here's the poll if you're interested:

Even if it was legal- Could you sell products to CTB on the open market?

The whole recent business with Kenneth Law and IC has left me with a perplexing question... I believe all capable adults have the right to autonomy. I also admire what KL was doing- IF his motives were purely to help people who are suffering. That said- I don't think I could do it myself. It's...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[Deleted member 31858]

I think his intentions started out well – helping give a more humane option to people who suffer greatly, like his mom might have. But instructing customers on how to use the product for best results (which I think he is alleged of doing) no longer just teeters on illegal, it is. They wouldn't have been able to do anything, as far as I know, if he was just selling SN.

I agree with you that suicide ought to be permissible for mentally capable adults, but I think that's part of the problem, too. Someone like KL (supposedly an engineer and chef) really can't say whether or not the people he is advising are competent, certain and fully aware of what they're doing. He might have given advice to people in crisis who would have wanted to live in a few weeks or months.

I really don't think he helped, gave advice or instructions on the use of the SN because all that information should already be known by those who know the source because everything can be found in the guide and in PPH to which we all have access, I don't trust everything that the Times note says. On the other hand, when the police arrive to do the checks, referring to SN as a suicide kit reminds me of the notes that other media outlets have made, specifically one where a man has his SN and medicines in a box thinking that everything had been bought. in the same place when we have all bought things separately and gathered in one place to have them on hand for when it is time. This is all very weird.

 

[William01]

A little unrelated, but does anyone know how to block certain users on this forum form contacting you or seeing your posts? I will explain why after this done, if it can be that is.

 

[Deleted member 31858]

A little unrelated, but does anyone know how to block certain users on this forum form contacting you or seeing your posts? I will explain why after this done, if it can be that is.

you just click on his photo and you get the option to ignore

 

[William01]

you just click on his photo and you get the option to ignore

Will this also block them from seeing my posts etc?

Will this also block them from seeing my posts etc?

I've a very good reason for asking this!

 

[Deleted member 31858]

Will this also block them from seeing my posts etc?

I've a very good reason for asking this!

oh no wait I misunderstood, that's just so you don't have to read them but they can still read you, there's no other choice, I'm so sorry.
they would have to ignore you themselves.

 

[William01]

oh no wait I misunderstood, that's just so you don't have to read them but they can still read you, there's no other choice, I'm so sorry

I've ignored them. I think I was just targeted by a prolifer! Was asked how long I was on this etc... what really stood to me was that the person lied about when they join this forum. They told me they were on this for a years, but when I checked they are new to this forum. Then then wanted me to do an action that could give away my real identity. I just can't shake off the feeling that this whole SN investigation worldwide thing is not over yet and Authorities are tlmonitoring this and trying to uncover real identities etc

 

[Deleted member 31858]

I've ignored them. I think I was just targeted by a prolifer! Was asked how long I was on this etc... what really stood to me was that the person lied about when they join this forum. They told me they were on this for a years, but when I checked they are new to this forum. Then then wanted me to do an action that could give away my real identity. I just can't shake off the feeling that this whole SN investigation worldwide thing is not over yet and Authorities are tlmonitoring this and trying to uncover real identities etc

Is that user still active here? I think maybe you could contact a moderator and expose your situation if you have the messages

 

[William01]

I didn't realise that was an option

 

[rationaltake]

I didn't realise that was an option

Do contact the mods if you have any worries about a member on here. I have found them really helpful. Trying to expose your identity sounds very suspicious.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I guess I'm just wishing this all led to the fact that we could know SN is 100% lethal on its own. i wanted to assume so because authorities care so much but maybe it isn't then? especially if they keep saying suicide kit - doesn't seem like they know and they aren't mentioning anything else needed in the media to prevent copycats is how I'm taking it.

Pretty much all methods carry a risk of failing. SN seems more likey to work when the protocol is followed- that's true. If it's the actual thing- I imagine it is pretty lethal but like anything- things can go wrong. So- people follow the protocol to maximize the chances of it working. Literally any method has had it's failures though- people have survived gunshot wounds to the head and jumps from the Golden Gate bridge. Seems to me like assisted suicide at a clinic is the only 100% failsafe method- they're not going to mess it up. It's just awful that people who are suffering as it is have to risk potentially making things much worse- if the attempt fails.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Yes you are right. I am in excruciating physical pain and can't imagine going through more excruciating pain never to be able to recover or be able to try again. I have one last opportunity and can't fail. I am just wondering what the odds are. It's very unlikely you will survive falling from that bridge although it is possible. Is SN on its own (with meto) just like 15% success - like all other poisoning? As long as you are not interrupted and consume 20-25mg? The other meds on their own won't hurt you either so I'm not sure how much truth there is or if the people who died were just very rare. If hundreds of ppl are buying it and only 2 confirmed deaths re: the charge in the IC case it doesn't seem like it's that easy or people buying it don't actually want to die (which seems like a lot on here)

I'm so sorry for your situation. That sounds awful. I really wouldn't like to guess what the success rate for SN was without the other items. I suspect the number of deaths is much higher than the two being connected to IC in this case so far though. I'm pretty sure some former members here were successful with it.

I don't know if you have the search function available yet but I'd recommend you do your own research. People regularly used to discuss the SN protocol here. I'm not knowledgable enough to know or advise- and I think it's unwise to even try to really discuss method protocol in the current climate. There is a wealth of information on here though.

Still- ultimately- whatever any of us decide to do- if we decide to do it- it will be a risk- sadly. I'm so sorry for your situation. Is assisted suicide an option for you- may I ask? That would be my prefered way but I'm definitely not eligible. I understand it isn't exactly accessible for many people though.