Help Parents who wish to CTB

[RejectedKarma]

My CTB ideation came and went in waves and one of the main reasons that kept me hoping and fighting for my life was my son. He is still very young.
The thought of me CBTing and leaving my child behind was terrifying.
But in the past days I've felt completely disconnected from him too. I imagine him moving on and not suffering much since he is only little and he actually associates death with going to the stars...He actually asked me if I'm going to the stars one day and I said I will.
I'm wondering of other people's thoughts and emotions about this, especially parents..
I know it's a delicate topic....

 

[Kit1]

Dear RejectedKarma,

Welcome to the parents guilt life - I have two children (teenagers) and they are the sole reason for me trying my absolute best to keep myself alive. The reality (and ample evidence points to this as well) is that children will suffer greatly if either of the parent die by suicide. There is also a higher chance of a child/children ending their lives if a parent had ended their life. My aunty ended her life in the 1970s leaving behind two children aged under 5. In the 90s, the younger daughter ended her life. The elder daughter is struggling - bit there is trauma there and then there is the intergenerational trauma.

If anyone, regardless of whether they are a parent or not, ends their life - I will only have empathy and sympathy for that person. Because despite knowing all the stats and seeing what suicide can do for the generations to follow, it is painful to remain when we feel like we have reached the end of the road.

Good Luck with whatever decision you make - and I hope that you have looked at other alternatives and reached out for support before you make any firm decisions. Take care.

 

[evannave]

This is a very difficult topic :(. Just reading it is almost bringing me to tears. In the end, it is your decision, but your son needs you.

 

[letsgetittogo]

I don't want to sway your decision, or try to convince you to not ctb or seek recovery, just providing my personal experience.

My father committed suicide when I was 4 years old by using CO in his car. At 23 years old, I have only one vague memory of him from back then.
I don't remember what his voice sounded like, his mannerisms or what his personality was like, outside of what I've been told by family members.

Despite the fact that I don't remember him though, his death has definitely affected the course of my life greatly. I processed his death in many different ways, with varying degrees of maturity given my age, and I can safely say it fucked me up quite a bit. In fact, I think it's pushed me Towards suicide as well. Maybe it's not the deciding factors, but a huge contributing one to my poor mental health.

losing a parent In ANY way is traumatic for a child, and losing them to suicide is even more so. It brings a whole other sequence of questions regarding their motives and their mental state. Your son will most like think:

Why did they do it? Was I not important enough for them to stay? Why didn't they want to raise me? Did they not want kids, and that's why they ctb? Did they know how bad their ctb would fuck me up, and not care?

A million different questions. They'll feel anger and sadness and grief at extremely young ages. It's confusing and, at times, crippling. Even if you say your son is young enough to move on and not remember you, your suicide will inevitably be a traumatic part of their life, for the rest of their life. that is not in question, because it will be. It's up to you to decide if that matters to you at this point in your life, and whether you think your son will have the support system required to work through the issues your death will inevitably cause them.

You saying "I think they'll be fine, they'll forget about me" etc etc is a huge cope. Like I said, I don't want sway your decision to ctb. I would just say if you DO decide to ctb, your son deserves you looking at things from THEIR perspective too. Ctb if you want, but when you make that decision, make it with the understanding that you will alter the course of your child's life forever, and most likely not in a positive way.

 

[Proteus]

Feeling unimportant to others is a common symptom of depression. I just hope you don't really believe it. :)

@Kit1 made a very good point, and specially because the kid is little, he will be affected more. He probably won't believe in an afterlife forever, either.

I'd like to say it's your decision, but this cases are very delicate, because the people involved is more vulnerable than anyone else, and one made the decision to make them dependent. For the better or worse, our choices shape the responsibilities we take.

I understand one doesn't control suicidal ideation, otherwise, almost no one would die that way. It's usually a response to exhausting coping ways. However, if it was possible to improve, I'm sure your son will love it. :)

Having a parent who is there but not really there isn't going to be any more beneficial than not having a parent at all, at least in my opinion.

I disagree. OP's condition may not necessarily cause neglect or abuse to the child, and that's also more in control than suicidal ideation. Plus, being orphan may feel like an extreme form of neglect. Sure, it helps leaving someone to care about the child, but it's still not ideal. As I said, rights have obligations, but it's not always in our control what other's do and how they feel.

Nothing I've said is trying to guilt-trip, it's just how things are. There can't be an ideal solution for everyone, and I think the right of the child should be prioritized. It wasn't his choice to be through all this, after all.

 

[myopia]

It sounds like you are going through an impossible struggle, and I hope you know that there is no right or wrong answer.

I lost my father when I was a child, and although at first I didn't think I was severely impacted, a few years ago I had a mental breakdown and was hospitalized for an extended period. I never truly recovered, and I am still dealing with that grief now. My point being, even if you don't think your child will be impacted too much, I can guarantee they will, at least subconsciously.

Even so, as long as your child has another strong support system to care for them (parent, grandparent, etc.), I think you're completely within your right to CTB. Especially if your suicidal ideation is impairing your ability to parent. Having a parent who is there but not really there isn't going to be any more beneficial than not having a parent at all, at least in my opinion.

If you do end up CTBing, it might be nice to leave your child a note explaining why you did it for them to have when they get older. I'd also recommend leaving behind a voice memo so they can always have your voice. I know that really helped me when my dad died.

I hope you are able to find peace with your decision, no matter what it ends up being. Sending virtual hugs and lots of support your way.

 

[melancholymallory03]

I don't want to sway your decision, or try to convince you to not ctb or seek recovery, just providing my personal experience.

My father committed suicide when I was 4 years old by using CO in his car. At 23 years old, I have only one vague memory of him from back then.
I don't remember what his voice sounded like, his mannerisms or what his personality was like, outside of what I've been told by family members.

Despite the fact that I don't remember him though, his death has definitely affected the course of my life greatly. I processed his death in many different ways, with varying degrees of maturity given my age, and I can safely say it fucked me up quite a bit. In fact, I think it's pushed me Towards suicide as well. Maybe it's not the deciding factors, but a huge contributing one to my poor mental health.

losing a parent In ANY way is traumatic for a child, and losing them to suicide is even more so. It brings a whole other sequence of questions regarding their motives and their mental state. Your son will most like think:

Why did they do it? Was I not important enough for them to stay? Why didn't they want to raise me? Did they not want kids, and that's why they ctb? Did they know how bad their ctb would fuck me up, and not care?

A million different questions. They'll feel anger and sadness and grief at extremely young ages. It's confusing and, at times, crippling. Even if you say your son is young enough to move on and not remember you, your suicide will inevitably be a traumatic part of their life, for the rest of their life. that is not in question, because it will be. It's up to you to decide if that matters to you at this point in your life, and whether you think your son will have the support system required to work through the issues your death will inevitably cause them.

You saying "I think they'll be fine, they'll forget about me" etc etc is a huge cope. Like I said, I don't want sway your decision to ctb. I would just say if you DO decide to ctb, your son deserves you looking at things from THEIR perspective too. Ctb if you want, but when you make that decision, make it with the understanding that you will alter the course of your child's life forever, and most likely not in a positive way.

I'm so sorry for your loss. this made me cry reading this …
& this is all so insightful to OP, I wonder what things they can do to ensure if they are already decided they are leaving the child with a nurturing support system…. Although I entirely agree the loss of a loved one will inevitably always be a traumatic event for the rest of their life….

 

[RejectedKarma]

I don't want to sway your decision, or try to convince you to not ctb or seek recovery, just providing my personal experience.

My father committed suicide when I was 4 years old by using CO in his car. At 23 years old, I have only one vague memory of him from back then.
I don't remember what his voice sounded like, his mannerisms or what his personality was like, outside of what I've been told by family members.

Despite the fact that I don't remember him though, his death has definitely affected the course of my life greatly. I processed his death in many different ways, with varying degrees of maturity given my age, and I can safely say it fucked me up quite a bit. In fact, I think it's pushed me Towards suicide as well. Maybe it's not the deciding factors, but a huge contributing one to my poor mental health.

losing a parent In ANY way is traumatic for a child, and losing them to suicide is even more so. It brings a whole other sequence of questions regarding their motives and their mental state. Your son will most like think:

Why did they do it? Was I not important enough for them to stay? Why didn't they want to raise me? Did they not want kids, and that's why they ctb? Did they know how bad their ctb would fuck me up, and not care?

A million different questions. They'll feel anger and sadness and grief at extremely young ages. It's confusing and, at times, crippling. Even if you say your son is young enough to move on and not remember you, your suicide will inevitably be a traumatic part of their life, for the rest of their life. that is not in question, because it will be. It's up to you to decide if that matters to you at this point in your life, and whether you think your son will have the support system required to work through the issues your death will inevitably cause them.

You saying "I think they'll be fine, they'll forget about me" etc etc is a huge cope. Like I said, I don't want sway your decision to ctb. I would just say if you DO decide to ctb, your son deserves you looking at things from THEIR perspective too. Ctb if you want, but when you make that decision, make it with the understanding that you will alter the course of your child's life forever, and most likely not in a positive way.

Thank you for opening up about your experience and I am so sorry for you having to go through it. What you highlighted is part of my main concerns and at the same time it's what's kept me going. At the same time I think of the reverse situation, if my child would want to CBT and how that would make me feel....
Take care

Feeling unimportant to others is a common symptom of depression. I just hope you don't really believe it. :)

@Kit1 made a very good point, and specially because the kid is little, he will be affected more. He probably won't believe in an afterlife forever, either.

I'd like to say it's your decision, but this cases are very delicate, because the people involved is more vulnerable than anyone else, and one made the decision to make them dependent. For the better or worse, our choices shape the responsibilities we take.

I understand one doesn't control suicidal ideation, otherwise, almost no one would die that way. It's usually a response to exhausting coping ways. However, if it was possible to improve, I'm sure your son will love it. :)


I disagree. OP's condition may not necessarily cause neglect or abuse to the child, and that's also more in control than suicidal ideation. Plus, being orphan may feel like an extreme form of neglect. Sure, it helps leaving someone to care about the child, but it's still not ideal. As I said, rights have obligations, but it's not always in our control what other's do and how they feel.

Nothing I've said is trying to guilt-trip, it's just how things are. There can't be an ideal solution for everyone, and I think the right of the child should be prioritized. It wasn't his choice to be through all this, after all.

Yes, I understand my symptoms but many times rational thoughts don't reflect the emotional experience. I know that people care for me I just don't feel it.
And yes I understand your point about decision and responsibilities and I guess it's that situation when what you decide is for life, probably the only thing you can't undo
Thank you for your input

 

[beyondthestars]

My CTB ideation came and went in waves and one of the main reasons that kept me hoping and fighting for my life was my son. He is still very young.
The thought of me CBTing and leaving my child behind was terrifying.
But in the past days I've felt completely disconnected from him too. I imagine him moving on and not suffering much since he is only little and he actually associates death with going to the stars...He actually asked me if I'm going to the stars one day and I said I will.
I'm wondering of other people's thoughts and emotions about this, especially parents..
I know it's a delicate topic....

Thanks for sharing so honestly RK!

It's an uncomfortable truth, but your emotions and thoughts are often lying to you. It's nice to imagine our children being fine and we don't know if this is the truth. The best you could do for them is to come back, to overcome your suffering. I know you probably tried many things already, but if there's anything you could still try it's definitely worth a shot.

Don't got me wrong, I'm not downplaying your suffering. I've been having suicidal episodes for over 30 years, I know how unbearable life can be.

Is there anything you haven't tried yet?

Thanks to being a parent I stayed alive. It's been rough, but the shared moments have been worth it. Even after al this time there's still new things to try for me. (MDMA therapy, IFS, seeing new medical experts, etc.)

I wish you all the best!

 

[Tesha]

As a parent of a teen and a tween I fully understand where you're coming from. I've been doing the same as you, switching between being present for mine and feeling completely detached (but still physically present). Detached and dissociated feels the most comfortable for me to manage, but I still find myself fighting it.

I didn't have MH issues or suicidal ideation when I had my kids, if I had I wouldn't have had them. So, I don't blame myself for feeling the way I do now. However I do recognise that my detachment from them is ultimately about protecting me, rather than them; and I'm struggling to come to terms with that. Suicide is selfish, but I'm testing my thought process on how selfish I'm prepared to be.

As with any suicide decision, it's one that can only be taken by the suicidal person. Others experiences and advice may help you decide one way or another, but I think you have to be so much more open with yourself when young children are involved.

I've had this conversation with my community mental health team (I've got a fantastic NHS team) and I've kind of given them the green light to section me if I get to the point where they think I'm about to take my life - as a way of giving me time to reflect. If I still feel it's the right choice after a period of being 'contained' in a safe environment, then that's my decision made.

 

[RejectedKarma]

It sounds like you are going through an impossible struggle, and I hope you know that there is no right or wrong answer.

I lost my father when I was a child, and although at first I didn't think I was severely impacted, a few years ago I had a mental breakdown and was hospitalized for an extended period. I never truly recovered, and I am still dealing with that grief now. My point being, even if you don't think your child will be impacted too much, I can guarantee they will, at least subconsciously.

Even so, as long as your child has another strong support system to care for them (parent, grandparent, etc.), I think you're completely within your right to CTB. Especially if your suicidal ideation is impairing your ability to parent. Having a parent who is there but not really there isn't going to be any more beneficial than not having a parent at all, at least in my opinion.

If you do end up CTBing, it might be nice to leave your child a note explaining why you did it for them to have when they get older. I'd also recommend leaving behind a voice memo so they can always have your voice. I know that really helped me when my dad died.

I hope you are able to find peace with your decision, no matter what it ends up being. Sending virtual hugs and lots of support your way.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience....
Yes I had these thoughts about my ability to be a good enough parent considering my ongoing difficulties and I did find ways around it.
I guess what's left is managing these crisis days when the impulse is very strong and overwhelming.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I feel so bad for parents going through this. It must be hell. I don't want to guilt trip you but I lost my Mum to natural causes when I was 3. I'm 44 now and I don't think I ever will get over it.

I suppose I do understand the reasoning that someone may be convinced they'll have such a harmful affect on their child that the child would be better off without them. I don't know though. If they are that aware of their behaviour, is it something they could modify? Get help or support for?

I'm afraid I do have a bias towards the child needing their parents because that's the side I know. I guess for some, it just doesn't feel possible to keep going though. I'm so sorry you are going through this.

 

[Dopamine_Junkie44]

Thank you all for your messages. I am in the same position as OP. Having young kids and feeling suicidal. Your views will help me to remember what my leaving would do to my kids and hopefully guide me back to recovery, when I am having a bad episode.
A related question that is in my mind: would it be "better" if I ctb'd when my kids are adults? Would it traumatize them less? Hanging on to: "I will be free to do it, when they are old enough." might be helpful to bear surviving in the present.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

The child will be the one who suffers the most. What makes you actually suicidal? Is there no chance to go on for now - for the wellbeing of yoour child? There's a responsibility that adults take when they decide to produce a child.

It's the ever unsolvable problem when it comes to CTB someone will have to suffer from it but it should never be a child that wasn't even asked whether it wanted to be here or not.

An adult also suffers when a partner / parent CTBed but eventually they can understand the reasons why CTB was the only option.

 

[beyondthestars]

This is such a valuable thread for parents

Thank you all for your messages. I am in the same position as OP. Having young kids and feeling suicidal. Your views will help me to remember what my leaving would do to my kids and hopefully guide me back to recovery, when I am having a bad episode.
A related question that is in my mind: would it be "better" if I ctb'd when my kids are adults? Would it traumatize them less? Hanging on to: "I will be free to do it, when they are old enough." might be helpful to bear surviving in the present.

That's what I always thought. I've to keep going at least until my child is an adult. Hopefully I'll have healed by then.

 

[RejectedKarma]

I feel I need to clarify that I wasn't struggling when I had my child and never in 1000 years I would have imagined that I would end up thinking about suicide not that many years later on.
And I don't think people who struggle mentally actually decide to have a child just because.
Yes I'm exploring treatments and trying to build my resilience.
And regarding what @Dopamine_Junkie44 said about waiting until your child is an adult - if you make it for that long , what does that actually mean? That you recovered ( that means so many things for different people)? And then won't you think wanting to see them married or with grandkids and so on?

 

[Dopamine_Junkie44]

And regarding what @Dopamine_Junkie44 said about waiting until your child is an adult - if you make it for that long , what does that actually mean? That you recovered ( that means so many things for different people)? And then won't you think wanting to see them married or with grandkids and so on?

Maybe. Right now I don't have any curiosity for anything in the future. And I am a little scared about what my kids will be like in the future. I influence them just by being around. They might learn to think like I do. They might blame me for being messed up, because I am... I have been struggling since I am 12. sometimes more, sometimes less. My first pregnancy was unexpected. I was careless and a little naive. I was unsure if I would make a good mother. Other people said I would. And I relied on my kid having a good father. The first 3 years have been good enough. And I felt well. It made sense to have a second child. Then the pressure of parenting got to me. I blamed my dad (emotionally unavailable, very fond of himself) for my mental health. I wanted to avoid hurting my kids emotionally. I wanted to avoid mistakes and failed. Parenting is something you have to learn while doing it. At the end of last year I was pretty convinced my kids would be better off without me. Still other people tell me, I am doing well enough as a mother... so long story short: I do blame myself for having kids when I should have known, that I might get worse again. And that's why I tell everyone to do therapy first and then think about having children. All the more reason to work on myself now. And to not leave them. But that's easier said than done...

 

[restlessdream3r]

I have two kids (9 and 12) they are removed from me and with dad because of my mental health. I am divorced and since may I am granted 1 hour a week supervised visits with them. It has been the hardest thing I have ever been through. I raised both of them and spent each day with them. I feel really disconnected from them now. I tried to commit in may, which led to the removal etc. i do feel a lot of guilt and sadness when i think about leaving them, but i know they are fine. They are taken care of and happy. I hope you find the peace you are looking for. I relate to your feelings and struggle.

 

[Nikitatos]

Do your best to hang in there. Reach out to people in your community for help.

 

[RejectedKarma]

I have two kids (9 and 12) they are removed from me and with dad because of my mental health. I am divorced and since may I am granted 1 hour a week supervised visits with them. It has been the hardest thing I have ever been through. I raised both of them and spent each day with them. I feel really disconnected from them now. I tried to commit in may, which led to the removal etc. i do feel a lot of guilt and sadness when i think about leaving them, but i know they are fine. They are taken care of and happy. I hope you find the peace you are looking for. I relate to your feelings and struggle.

I am so sorry that you are going through this and I am sorry that the only solutions that systems have to this issue are punitive and pushing people further down that path.
I understand and appreciate your courage of sharing this here.


Just some reflections following all the answers:

Suicide continues to carry stigma in our society but it seems this somehow gets bigger when the person who experiences suicidal ideation or dies by suicide is a parent.

Mental health is supposed to be a myth that we don't talk about to children at any level like they wouldn't understand. Anything expressed in age appropriate manner will be understood.
I am saying this because talking about it takes the burden of people feeling isolated and alone
No, mental health is there just like physical health. Just like any organ in our bodies, our brain can also have functionality issues, however you wish to conceptualise mental health.
So why is it so difficult to accept this?

If a parent has cancer and has lost hair and weight and their body is bruised from the whatever treatment they are doing, would you keep that parent away from their children because it's better for the child not to see them like that?
Then why do it with one who wishes to die?
What's so difficult to explain suicide to children?
They are going to hear about it anyway and the way we present this concept to them is going to influence the way they perceive: as a stigma or maybe some glorified if they end up watching that Netflix series.
Do you think talking about suicide is going to increase suicide rates? This is like talking about homosexuality, genders and what not? Do we think talking to children about these things increases their prevalence?

It seems that the pro choice movement exists but not for parents.

These are just some of my thoughts, I am not talking to anyone particular from this thread.

 

[restlessdream3r]

I am so sorry that you are going through this and I am sorry that the only solutions that systems have to this issue are punitive and pushing people further down that path.
I understand and appreciate your courage of sharing this here.


Just some reflections following all the answers:

Suicide continues to carry stigma in our society but it seems this somehow gets bigger when the person who experiences suicidal ideation or dies by suicide is a parent.

Mental health is supposed to be a myth that we don't talk about to children at any level like they wouldn't understand. Anything expressed in age appropriate manner will be understood.
I am saying this because talking about it takes the burden of people feeling isolated and alone
No, mental health is there just like physical health. Just like any organ in our bodies, our brain can also have functionality issues, however you wish to conceptualise mental health.
So why is it so difficult to accept this?

If a parent has cancer and has lost hair and weight and their body is bruised from the whatever treatment they are doing, would you keep that parent away from their children because it's better for the child not to see them like that?
Then why do it with one who wishes to die?
What's so difficult to explain suicide to children?
They are going to hear about it anyway and the way we present this concept to them is going to influence the way they perceive: as a stigma or maybe some glorified if they end up watching that Netflix series.
Do you think talking about suicide is going to increase suicide rates? This is like talking about homosexuality, genders and what not? Do we think talking to children about these things increases their prevalence?

It seems that the pro choice movement exists but not for parents.

These are just some of my thoughts, I am not talking to anyone particular from this thread.

I agree with you. My divorce pushed me over the edge and then I in turn made that decision in may. Since then I've been in 6 different psych hospitals, I've tried over 30 medications, and I've had 16 ECT treatments. ECT helped a little at one point, but now I'm back at square one. Definitely a hard thing to be looked at under a microscope by the state, while drowning mentally.

 

[MatrixPrisoner]

It pains me to say this, because I feel like anyone that is suffering should be allowed to end it...but ethically you really have no choice but to grind through it. Your child exists for no other reason than an act by you. So the ending of your suffering is not justified, as it transfers your suffering to another human that you are responsible for creating, multiple times over.

I hope that you have some stroke of luck that allows you to keep living with minimal suffering. Not only for you, but for the sake of your innocent child.

 

[Dopamine_Junkie44]

That sounds right seen from a rational ethical point of view. Yet again: how many people are rational ehical beings? I wish I was able to think and feel this straight...

 

[scientificmethid]

My CTB ideation came and went in waves and one of the main reasons that kept me hoping and fighting for my life was my son. He is still very young.
The thought of me CBTing and leaving my child behind was terrifying.
But in the past days I've felt completely disconnected from him too. I imagine him moving on and not suffering much since he is only little and he actually associates death with going to the stars...He actually asked me if I'm going to the stars one day and I said I will.
I'm wondering of other people's thoughts and emotions about this, especially parents..
I know it's a delicate topic....

Man this hits home. The only thing keeping me here is what it would do to my kids (6 and 3). Thank you for posting. I felt like I was the only one

 

[RejectedKarma]

Man this hits home. The only thing keeping me here is what it would do to my kids (6 and 3). Thank you for posting. I felt like I was the only one

You're not the only one, we just suffer in complete silence because of the stigma.
I'm sorry you're going through this and hopefully knowing that you're not alone in this will ease that burden.