Venting Owing a debt/ emotionally safe guarding our parents.

[Forever Sleep]

In truth, even though it annoys me from a rational perspective, I still feel this enormous responsibility not to hurt my parents with my suicide. (My Dad anyway- my real Mum is already dead.)

Rationally though, it really irritates me. This pressure we have put on us not to hurt our loved ones- via suiciding. Especially when it comes to our parents. It's like this feeling of being indebted and, emotionally responsible for them.

I've mentioned it before but, I tend to view being born as being involuntarily entered into a co dependent relationship. I think we mostly realise co dependent relationships are bad. They don't give us freedom. They are characterised by mannipulation.

Even if our parents and even if society isn't openly mannipulative and emotionally blackmail us- as in- you'll destroy my life if you CTB, we often do still feel that burden. Because we still realise the inevitability of that happening.

That seems like such a cruel obligation to put on someone but it feels almost innate to life. Unless of course, the person's parents are so awful that they don't care or have any kind of relationship with them to begin with. Which will possibly make them more likely to have ideation to begin with but, more free to do it I guess.

It really struck me though, on the (enforced) call to a helpline, following a welfair check. The woman actually tried to guilt trip me- think what it would do to your family. I honestly wanted to flip my lid at her but, I held my tongue. For context though, I've already held on for 35 years so as not to upset my family.

It's worse than that though. My parents knew my Mum had cancer when they went ahead with the pregnancy. Ok, they may have hoped/ believed that she would recover. But then surely- death was a possibility at that point. Why is it ok for parents to inflict their deaths on us but, we're given hell for doing the same? It just seems so unfair.

I'm so tired of feeling resentful too. Which further intensifies my resentment towards actually being alive. I could have been spared all this. My Dad could have been spared the slow realisation of how bad things are for me if I wasn't here to begin with.

He refuses to regret the decision because I supposedly brought joy to their lives. Not sure how accurate that is. It's pretty rose tinted I think. But worse and far more selfishly speaking- that isn't enough to make me happy. I'm happy for them- if that was the case. I just wish all of it hadn't involved me.

It almost feels like talking to the soul of a chicken- I know you lived a shit life and were butchered horribly but- you tasted delicious! Isn't that enough to have given your life meaning? Aren't you grateful that you made my life better? Well, no- probably not. Why would we necessarily enjoy being fodder to other people's needs?

 

[whywere]

I am at the other end of the spectrum as I have said so many times on here, both my "parents" never wanted me and would have left me at the hospital after being born if society would not have stood in the way.

So, having a parents love a child or say that having a child brought joy to their lives, is something that I can never understand ever.

I can truly see the dilemma of a parents telling an offspring that statement and the offspring having turmoil about it, it can be so heart wrenching, however for me, way back in the 1960's getting a hug and a "I love you" from a parent would to this day be something that I would cherish and hold close to my heart always.

This is another one of life's dilemmas, one longs for it, and another does not so much, and both are equally correct.

To @Forever Sleep, lots of hugs, love, understanding and the knowledge that you are family here to/for me, you are WONDERFUL!

Walter

 

[Forever Sleep]

I am at the other end of the spectrum as I have said so many times on here, both my "parents" never wanted me and would have left me at the hospital after being born if society would not have stood in the way.

So, having a parents love a child or say that having a child brought joy to their lives, is something that I can never understand ever.

I can truly see the dilemma of a parents telling an offspring that statement and the offspring having turmoil about it, it can be so heart wrenching, however for me, way back in the 1960's getting a hug and a "I love you" from a parent would to this day be something that I would cherish and hold close to my heart always.

This is another one of life's dilemmas, one longs for it, and another does not so much, and both are equally correct.

To @Forever Sleep, lots of hugs, love, understanding and the knowledge that you are family here to/for me, you are WONDERFUL!

Walter

I've always found your life story particularly tragic and heinous truthfully. No parent should abandon their child. I can also understand why you would believe that a loving family would have made all the difference in the world to you.

I'd suggest it can be a little more complicated than that though. They can be loving one minute but then take fundamentally selfish actions that turn your life on its head. Knowingly or unknowingly. It's reasonable to say my own family caused my ideation to begin with- even though they do actually love me. (Well, some of them.) So, it's complicated I suppose.

Also, I know your words are from a place of kindness- which is appreciated. But to be claimed as 'family'- even though I know where you're coming from- I'm also very appreciative of the community we have here. But, even to be described as 'wonderful'- which again is kind. It's still part of the underlying problem I have with life I suppose.

We are useful here to one another. So, our 'use' is in what we can do for other people. Is that enough to motivate us to stay alive though? If we were truly selfless, it would be. I suppose I'm just not that selfless though. I'm tired of those exact pressures- having to stay alive to be useful or 'wonderful' for others. I guess the crux of it is being born to serve. To fill an emotional gap. To fulfil financial, lawful, societal, familial obligations. It just doesn't feel fair (to me) to dump that on someone.

Of course, now that we are stuck here for the time being, I suppose it is good that we appreciate on another. You are hugely appreciated here too Walter.

 

[Permanoir]

I've felt this too, but the difference is I don't feel that enormous responsibility not to hurt my parents with my suicide. I guess that's because I discovered antinatalism at 14, and it completely changed how I saw my parents. I only saw them for the role they played in bringing me into existence, and nothing else. I don't know if that's good or bad, but it helped me get over the guilt of leaving them in grief. I guess I've rationalized a lot why my leaving isn't inherently negative- they chose to bring me into this world, and that decision created this situation.

Honestly, I still don't fully understand why I don't feel emotionally connected to them like other people are to their parents, but I know my upbringing and the choices they made must have contributed more than I can measure.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I've felt this too, but the difference is I don't feel that enormous responsibility not to hurt my parents with my suicide. I guess that's because I discovered antinatalism at 14, and it completely changed how I saw my parents. I only saw them for the role they played in bringing me into existence, and nothing else. I don't know if that's good or bad, but it helped me get over the guilt of leaving them in grief. I guess I've rationalized a lot why my leaving isn't inherently negative- they chose to bring me into this world, and that decision created this situation.

Honestly, I still don't fully understand why I don't feel emotionally connected to them like other people are to their parents, but I know my upbringing and the choices they made must have contributed more than I can measure.

I'm almost glad that I didn't really get into antinatilism till quite recently- my 40's. I think, to live with that hate for even longer would have been exhausting.

This is going to sound so strange and it may even be unfair but, I'm kind of the reverse in a way. In that I don't entirely understand my loyalty towards my Dad. Truthfully, his actions have knowingly put me in (serious) harms way at times.

In a way, it hurt more for me to feel resentment towards my Mum. I always used to have nothing but cherished, loving feelings towards her. Now, I wake up and see her picture and find I'm asking why she did this to me.

I guess it's because my Dad is actually a good person. Plus, he avoided suicide when my Mum died for my sake so, I suppose that is a favour I've been trying to return.

I guess it's to do with intention too. I'm sure my parents intended for me to be happy. I just think they didn't think it all through. Can I hate them for believing in something that didn't work out? Were they even that naive ultimately? I suppose it isn't exactly the majority of people who end up suicidal.

 

[Permanoir]

I'm almost glad that I didn't really get into antinatilism till quite recently- my 40's. I think, to live with that hate for even longer would have been exhausting.

This is going to sound so strange and it may even be unfair but, I'm kind of the reverse in a way. In that I don't entirely understand my loyalty towards my Dad. Truthfully, his actions have knowingly put me in (serious) harms way at times.

In a way, it hurt more for me to feel resentment towards my Mum. I always used to have nothing but cherished, loving feelings towards her. Now, I wake up and see her picture and find I'm asking why she did this to me.

I guess it's because my Dad is actually a good person. Plus, he avoided suicide when my Mum died for my sake so, I suppose that is a favour I've been trying to return.

I guess it's to do with intention too. I'm sure my parents intended for me to be happy. I just think they didn't think it all through. Can I hate them for believing in something that didn't work out? Were they even that naive ultimately? I suppose it isn't exactly the majority of people who end up suicidal.

It's not a coincidence that I became an antinatalist around the time that I started considering suicide as an option haha. I don't know if what I said came across this way, but I don't feel any resentment or hate toward my parents. I did when I was new to the philosophy, but not now. I've shared my beliefs with them, but since they're religious, nothing really came out of it. But then I guess I only tried to have those conversations as a way for them to figure out why I hated this existence without saying it outright. I know their intentions were pure, but they still made a decision that I see as objectively wrong, and their grief (from my suicide) is just the consequence of that choice.