Opioid Megathread & Overview

[legoshi]

Where would one even find legit fentanyl? The dark markets have a strict rule about fent being sold.

 

[ketamineprincess]

Where would one even find legit fentanyl? The dark markets have a strict rule about fent being sold.

i think you could try to talk to some homeless people in your area, some of them even got cool stories!

 

[legoshi]

i think you could try to talk to some homeless people in your area, some of them even got cool stories!

The stuff they are on is not legit fent. Sure it may have some fent in the pills but trying to get lucky on that would likely lead to just getting addicted. Also I'm not the type that dabbles in drugs so asking people for drugs would make me look very suspicious. I'd rather find it on the darkweb at least there it's a little more reliable with reviews

 

[dead dav]

Interesting read and very informative thanks

 

[Rhizomorph1]

The stuff they are on is not legit fent. Sure it may have some fent in the pills but trying to get lucky on that would likely lead to just getting addicted. Also I'm not the type that dabbles in drugs so asking people for drugs would make me look very suspicious. I'd rather find it on the darkweb at least there it's a little more reliable with reviews

Heroin from the dark net will be more reliable than fentanyl off the streets typically. Even if you have to take 10x the amount for the same level of potency.

Fentanyl on the streets typically has equal or less than 10-15% fentanyl per sample. Many samples have benzodiazapines and other unpredictable mixtures drugs.

Weirdest I saw while working as a drug checking technician was a pink chalky sample that the spectrometer told us contained cement and pulverized teeth (I suspect animal teeth not humans) but still concerning.

The dark net relies more heavily on reviews and reputation so it is generally a few degree points more reliable, but illicit markets as a whole are never perfect.

Thus why drug checking is important. Get your shizz under a spectrometer with results back

 

[lilies.in.heaven]

They also often contain fillers (e.g., Oxycontin) that make them unsuitable for injection or other routes of administration.

In that case, filtering will remove most fillers




I've been doing some research on morphine, as I can get my hands on 30mg morphine pills

It turns out 250mg oral (which means about 80mg IV) is the lethal dose for those who don't have tolerance



So 3 30mg tablets (90mg) is more than enough (just trying to figure out if these would all fit inside the syringe due to the water volume needed even tho i will heat it, or if I will need to split into two shots)

Adding some benzos will be the cherry on top of the cake

 

[Rhizomorph1]

In that case, filtering will remove most fillers




I've been doing some research on morphine, as I can get my hands on 30mg morphine pills

It turns out 250mg oral (which means about 80mg IV) is the lethal dose for those who don't have tolerance

View attachment 182031

So 3 30mg tablets (90mg) is more than enough (just trying to figure out if these would all fit inside the syringe due to the water volume needed even tho i will heat it, or if I will need to split into two shots)

Adding some benzos will be the cherry on top of the cake

View attachment 182038

Filtering may work for recreational use where small loses aren't as considerable but you will lose some product in the filtration making dosing less reliable. Likewise, filtration is often recommended more for amateur mixes where the substance isn't suspended in highly fixed fillers. The kinetic absorption of a drug from a pill will depend a lot more on mixing and surface area among other factors give the more robust filler structure. It will certainly help but I wouldn't consider it foolproof by any means. Filtration with cotton alone is just to avoid getting large particles that can cause blockage in the bloodstream for recreational use. Who knows what dosage actual ends up absorbed.

Also, I've mentioned before and will say it again: vomiting. A lethal dose is only such when it is assumed to be fully absorbed. The reality vs. what we see presented as stats like the one you shared is that more often than not, vomiting occurs or other confounding pharmacokinetic factors relating to absorption.

These stats are intended to highlight the deadliness of the opioid epidemic where tolerant users are consuming recreational doses on the daily. They hardly reflect the accuracy of intentional drug poisonings in far more variable ROAs, tolerances, etc.

Just food for thought. Its not that it won't improve the rates of success, but I want to encourage critical thought and respect the limitations. Even with the considerations you put forth, I still retain that this method is at best, moderately reliable. Not high or low. Moderate. Somewhere in the middle.

 

[lilies.in.heaven]

If you are opioid naive (0 tolerance) and add some vodka shots, odds are very high you will CTB. Of course, you need to crush the pills into fine powder, not swallow them as a whole [they are controlled release]

Are you still here?

If you are, I would really appreciate your opinion on an IV morphine overdose. Would you say there is a risk of shooting the first, getting fucking blasted/high (as the effects are basically instant) and not being able to shoot the other?
What would you say about dissolving these ones in hot water (not all of them, just 3) and then filtering with a pharmaceutical cotton filter?

Also, I've mentioned before and will say it again: vomiting. A lethal dose is only such when it is assumed to be fully absorbed. The reality vs. what we see presented as stats like the one you shared is that more often than not, vomiting occurs or other confounding pharmacokinetic factors relating to absorption.

That's just not true

Nausea is definitely lower on IV, and there is also the possiblity of taking prophylactic antiemetics



Also, I think you forgot we are talking about IV. Let's say there is vomiting. So what? The drug was put inside your body through your veins. It won't get out through your mouth.

At worst, that's what will happen when it comes to vomiting (if you watched Breaking Bad):



I'm really not trying to make less of your thread or to refute it, as I understand oral opiod OD is likely to fail for those who don't know what they are doing and think they will die by taking 500mg of codein. And I do recognize the importance of this thread.
But I do know what I'm doing.
I constantly put effort in doing research about stuff and I actually like planning, doing the math and thinking about the possibilities. I've always been like that. Not only with suicide.

Filtering may work for recreational use where small loses aren't as considerable but you will lose some product in the filtration making dosing less reliable.

Again: I won't be taking morphine alone, I will make sure I get Xanax (or any benzo), crush it and dissolve it in warm water. And again: vomiting will not be a problem. I took 7 pills (30mg each) of codeine phosphate for recreational purposes (without any antiemetics) and didn't even get close to vomiting. Just the bad nausea. So a large amount of benzo (which itself doesn't cause as much nausea as opioids) will NOT make me vomit.

Likewise, filtration is often recommended more for amateur mixes where the substance isn't suspended in highly fixed fillers. The kinetic absorption of a drug from a pill will depend a lot more on mixing and surface area among other factors give the more robust filler structure.

Do you have any sources to back up this statement?
Something that says IV absorption is low with prescription pills due to highly fixed fillers?

 

[Rhizomorph1]

Are you still here?

If you are, I would really appreciate your opinion on an IV morphine overdose. Would you say there is a risk of shooting the first, getting fucking blasted/high (as the effects are basically instant) and not being able to shoot the other?
What would you say about dissolving these ones in hot water and then filtering with a pharmaceutical cotton filter?

View attachment 182088


That's just not true

Nausea is definitely lower on IV, and there is also the possiblity of taking prophylactic antiemetics

View attachment 182089

Also, I think you forgot we are talking about IV. Let's say there is vomiting. So what? The drug was put inside your body through your veins. It won't get out through your mouth.

At worst, that's what will happen when it comes to vomiting (if you watched Breaking Bad):

View attachment 182093

I'm really not trying to make less of your thread or to refute it, as I understand oral opiod OD is likely to fail for those who don't know what they are doing and think they will die by taking 500mg of codein. And I do recognize the importance of this thread.
But I do know what I'm doing.
I constantly put effort in doing research about stuff and I actually like planning, doing the math and thinking about the possibilities. I've always been like that. Not only with suicide.


Again: I won't be taking morphine alone, I will make sure I get Xanax (or any benzo), crush it and dissolve it in warm water. And again: vomiting will not be a problem. I took 7 pills (30mg each) of codeine phosphate for recreational purposes (without any antiemetics) and didn't even get close to vomiting. Just the bad nausea. So a large amount of benzo (which itself doesn't cause as much nausea as opioids) will NOT make me vomit.

Do you have any sources to back up this statement?
Something that says IV absorption is low with prescription pills due to highly fixed fillers?

Apologies, I'm tired and not reading too far back in the thread. I've been inundated with people asking about eating opioids so have become a bit standard/heedless in my response. I didn't see that you were discussing IV. I had no intention of foulness, just trying to share info from a place of caution and healthy respect for information despite my tired brain!

Vomiting is a moot point with IV,

But still good practice to lay on your side as the intent is for asphixiation from opioid-induced respiratory depression to kill you. If you survive that, the odds of survival altogether drastically increases and the odds of brain injury from vomiting while surviving are considerablly at odds with dying if the vomit itself asphixiates you. I've seen BB like 5 times. Still, we should cover our bases and not plan for a potential traumatic brain injury as a backup; we ought to plan for success and our backup is to not get a traumatic injury but laying on our side in case I'm the opioid doesn't work.

Benzos, as I'm sure you're aware, are just a potentiator, but best practice is always to plan to have the opioid be the lethal drug first and foremost. Including it is fine, but I would never recommend anyone uses benzos in any capacity to 'make up' for any amount of 'missing' dose from the opioid as synergistic effects are highly variable and the polydrug interaction is even more unpredictable than the single drugs alone (inter individual tolerances not only to the drugs themselves but also the compounded 'added' effect may be far wider or non existent depending on genetics and other pharmacodynamics). I.e., plan to have a large enough dose of strong opioid first and foremost, so you don't end up with a hypoxic brain injury.

What I said about cotton filters is still true; true filtration would require a buchner funnel with vacuum & much finer grained filters than cotton. Nonetheless, the amount of dose lost will still remain small. But worth noting nonetheless. The source for this is chemical synthesis and filtration of crude products post-rxn from side reactions in the rxn vessel combined with spectroscopy data of the crude mixtures post-filtration. I don't have an immediate source since it's common knowledge that a simple cotton filter will only filter a proportion of excipients in any sample. It can be found in many introductory level chemistry textbooks or even information online. If you'd really like I can find it later when I have more time and motivation + sleep.

Ultimately, I hope my comment is read as collaborative and thoughtful; I'm just tired and I'm no way mean for this to sound confrontational. I just want to invite insight at the intersection of communication. I think we're both insightful but through communication we highlight things each party hasn't considered. It's all in the spirit of collaboration and reducing suffering

 

[lilies.in.heaven]

Apologies, I'm tired and not reading too far back in the thread. I've been inundated with people asking about eating opioids so have become a bit standard/heedless in my response.

No problems. You were (and you are) trying to help and I know it.

But still good practice to lay on your side as the intent is for asphixiation from opioid-induced respiratory depression to kill you. If you survive that, the odds of survival altogether drastically increases and the odds of brain injury from vomiting while surviving are considerablly at odds with dying if the vomit itself asphixiates you. I've seen BB like 5 times lol.

That's another thing I hadn't think about.
So let's say I didn't lay on my side.
And I didn't die by respiratory depression (due to the dose absorbed not being enough, for example). Then I start vomiting and get brain injury from lack of oxygen, and before I die from it, the vomiting cessates and I can breath again.
Makes a lot of sense. I will definitely lay on my side.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

No problems. You were (and you are) trying to help and I know it.

That's another thing I hadn't think about.
So let's say I didn't lay on my side.
And I didn't die by respiratory depression (due to the dose absorbed not being enough, for example). Then I start vomiting and get brain injury from lack of oxygen, and before I die from it, the vomiting cessates and I can breath again.
Makes a lot of sense. I will definitely lay on my side.

Absolutely!

I always figure it's good to have naloxone on hand too in case someone finds you and decides to rush you to ER only to be resuscitated with a brain injury. Like, it sounds contradictory but you don't want your failsafe to be vomiting and other injuries that are actually unlikely to kill you.

You want to be 100% certain in your method but if you do start vomiting, are only partially breathing enough to survive but brain damage might occur, someone finds you, whatever, then you plan for full recovery with naloxone, vomiting on the floor/sideways, other safety precautions against brain injury.

I think a lot of people see ctb as binary; either it works and you're dead, or you come back and try again. But often there is many degrees of in-between; we may take for granted the risks of permanent injury associated with ctb failure that could impair ability to attempt again, consent, function, etc.

I hope to invite people to prepare for these variables. Just looking at the stats on failed drug poisonings (3-6% success rate) is enough to tell me more people get injured than successfully ctb with drugs. So even if not for yourself, then anyone reading this comment, it's not good news (I really, really wish I had some...), but it is necessary news that I share widely: it is not risk free, and sometimes no method is better than a method that has gaps in it. We can take the time to consider and plan, and maybe process some heavy emotions along the way, and come back to it when we filled in the gaps.

The PPH is truly the only method book I can get behind as a result and this guide is intended as mere last resort/consideration for some common pitfalls.

 

[lilies.in.heaven]

Absolutely!

I always figure it's good to have naloxone on hand too in case someone finds you and decides to rush you to ER only to be resuscitated with a brain injury. Like, it sounds contradictory but you don't want your failsafe to be vomiting and other injuries that are actually unlikely to kill you.

You want to be 100% certain in your method but if you do start vomiting, are only partially breathing enough to survive but brain damage might occur, someone finds you, whatever, then you plan for full recovery with naloxone, vomiting on the floor/sideways, other safety precautions against brain injury.

I think a lot of people see ctb as binary; either it works and you're dead, or you come back and try again. But often there is many degrees of in-between; we may take for granted the risks of permanent injury associated with ctb failure that could impair ability to attempt again, consent, function, etc.

I hope to invite people to prepare for these variables. Just looking at the stats on failed drug poisonings (3-6% success rate) is enough to tell me more people get injured than successfully ctb with drugs. So even if not for yourself, then anyone reading this comment, it's not good news (I really, really wish I had some...), but it is necessary news that I share widely: it is not risk free, and sometimes no method is better than a method that has gaps in it. We can take the time to consider and plan, and maybe process some heavy emotions along the way, and come back to it when we filled in the gaps.

The PPH is truly the only method book I can get behind as a result and this guide is intended as mere last resort/consideration for some common pitfalls.

Thank you. These kind of info are so valuable because you are putting effort into considering all (or most) variables for this specific situation, and pointing out stuff that will actually help me not wake up 3 days later in the hospital seeing my mom crying in front of me.

I always figure it's good to have naloxone on hand too in case someone finds you and decides to rush you to ER only to be resuscitated with a brain injury.

I will look into it. But I'm almost 100% sure there is no naloxone available in my country.
There is not even fent or heroin here. Only opioids like morphine (which is not easy to get, I'm lucky to know how to get it even tho fucking expensive).

edit: well, there is naloxone (i just realized it wouldn't make sense my country not having it, as it's a medication), but I probably won't know how to get it
@Rhizomorph1
I saw this video about a year ago and I think it's also good material for this thread, as he explains how it feels like to not being able to breath at some point, and the overall feeling of the OD in general