Discussion Opinion - people who complain too much of SI just aren't ready to die yet.

[26mmmm]

I get the impression SI tends to come into full force when you are actually physically attempting. So- I guess- I'm curious- have you attempted OP? If you feel up to sharing that is...

I think it's probably one thing predicting how you'll feel and quite another when the time actually comes. I myself have never actually attempted so, I have no clue as to how strong mine might be.

I think I kid myself that I'll just breeze through it! I have a horrible feeling that I am actually kidding myself there though.

I dont know exactly how I'd feel when doing it.
There will be some fear involved but If I get to that point it means I have fully given up on life and I will be happy and at peace with suicide. Im also going to choose a method that isn't too scary and if it is, numb the fear down somehow.

 

[Intoxicated]

I think people who are overly concerned with SI just aren't ready to go yet.

I think, most of them wouldn't be able to explain what SI is and how exactly it works. It's a vague and useless notion that doesn't describe what actually is going on.

There are various examples of how discomfort and anxiety/panic lead to premature mortality instead of helping to survive. Nicotine addiction motivates smokers to consume the poison again and again via persistent withdrawal discomfort even if they understand that smoking has a negative impact on their health and would like to stop it altogether. Panic mode often leads to fatalities due to inability to follow a rational algorithm during an emergency situation.

There exist concrete things that motivate people to abort a suicide attempt, and they can be more meaningful that just "instinctive behavior". The details are important, because they can help you understand how to adjust your behavior.

There is a noticeable difference between simple "I am ready to die" and "I am ready to die using my chosen method, I am ready to patiently endure all symptoms that can be experienced during the attempt, and I accept all potential risks of failure." The second consent is stronger and it has to be clearly understood, so your intuition won't raise unanswered questions like "Wait, should dying really be like this?" at the last moment. Basically, it's nearly the same as convincing yourself that some dangerous and possibly unpleasant/painful medical intervention has to be done and you have no option to escape during the procedure.

 

[26mmmm]

I think, most of them wouldn't be able to explain what SI is and how exactly it works. It's a vague and useless notion that doesn't describe what actually is going on.

There are various examples of how discomfort and anxiety/panic lead to premature mortality instead of helping to survive. Nicotine addiction motivates smokers to consume the poison again and again via persistent withdrawal discomfort even if they understand that smoking has a negative impact on their health and would like to stop it altogether. Panic mode often leads to fatalities due to inability to follow a rational algorithm during an emergency situation.

There exist concrete things that motivate people to abort a suicide attempt, and they can be more meaningful that just "instinctive behavior". The details are important, because they can help you understand how to adjust your behavior.

There is a noticeable difference between simple "I am ready to die" and "I am ready to die using my chosen method, I am ready to patiently endure all symptoms that can be experienced during the attempt, and I accept all potential risks of failure." The second consent is stronger and it has to be clearly understood, so your intuition won't raise unanswered questions like "Wait, should dying really be like this?" at the last moment. Basically, it's nearly the same as convincing yourself that some dangerous and possibly unpleasant/painful medical intervention has to be done and you have no option to escape during the procedure.

So you're basically saying a person needs to accept death but dying too to be at peace with suicide.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I dont know exactly how I'd feel when doing it.
There will be some fear involved but If I get to that point it means I have fully given up on life and I will be happy and at peace with suicide. Im also going to choose a method that isn't too scary and if it is, numb the fear down somehow.

Yeah- that's my plan too. Hopefully going for a method that isn't too scary but- I don't think we'll really know what SI will be like till we are in that moment.

Have you ever watched the film: '2001: A Space Oddity.' I imagine SI to be a bit like the computer 'Hal' in that. Like- it will be like- 'What are you doing?... I'm afraid I can't let you kill us...'

 

[26mmmm]

Yeah- that's my plan too. Hopefully going for a method that isn't too scary but- I don't think we'll really know what SI will be like till we are in that moment.

Have you ever watched the film: '2001: A Space Oddity.' I imagine SI to be a bit like the computer 'Hal' in that. Like- it will be like- 'What are you doing?... I'm afraid I can't let you kill us...'

You might be right, but I feel like you might be thinking too much of it because everyone keeps talking about it.
If so many people manage to overcome it every year it's probably not the worst.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I don't think it's that simple. Suicide is just a shorter pathway to death and, whilst some may still cling to life, others embrace death for what it is and want to be dead. I think that, for the latter group, what keeps them alive isn't some hope or positive thing regarding life but rather resilience and other circumstances. Some people aren't strong enough to risk their lives in a brutal method to ensure death

 

[26mmmm]

I don't think it's that simple. Suicide is just a shorter pathway to death and, whilst some may still cling to life, others embrace death for what it is and want to be dead. I think that, for the latter group, what keeps them alive isn't some hope or positive thing regarding life but rather resilience and other circumstances. Some people aren't strong enough to risk their lives in a brutal method to ensure death

Maybe those people don't have any hopes of life, and want to die, but haven't suffered enough to actually accept dying, to accept the small bit of suffering that will lead to peace.
That was my situation atleast, a couple of years ago. I wanted to die but would have never even considered doing it myself. I had the "hiring a hitman" mentality.

 

[FuneralCry]

No, sorry but other people just aren't you, like you don't know what other people are going through. If you want to write about you then that's fine but I don't think it's your place to make claims about people you don't even know and cannot experience existence in the same way. The survival instinct is completely irrational anyway, to survive is simply what we are programmed for, the SI is separate from logical thought.

 

[Ambivalent1]

I see way too many threads and comments complaining about SI, regardless of how peaceful or painless the method is.

I think people who are overly concerned with SI just aren't ready to go yet.
Not that SI isn't a real thing, but in my opinion those who have truly given up on life would barely face that struggle with most methods.


I personally have been suicidal on and off for years now, and at first I was probably in the same boat, but now, having accepted suicide as potentially my only way to be happy im alot more at peace with it.
I haven't completely given up on life so I still have some fear of it but that can be overcome too by desperation.

I'm thinking so too. They're trying to rush something that they're not really ready for.

 

[26mmmm]

No, sorry but other people just aren't you, like you don't know what other people are going through. If you want to write about you then that's fine but I don't think it's your place to make claims about people you don't even know and cannot experience existence in the same way. The survival instinct is completely irrational anyway, to survive is simply what we are programmed for, the SI is separate from logical thought.

I get what you're saying. I understand now that some people have just suffered in different ways than myself and aren't necessarily fine with dying.
I still think my opinion is true but only in some cases.

 

[offbalance]

I respect you for still appreciating life. Alot of people here view life as an awful place based just on their own experience.

Thats literally one of the easiest, most painless methods out there. I find it hard to imagine that someone who really wants to end it all wouldn't be able to pull through with it because of SI. Not that it wouldn't show up but it can probably be overcome.

Of course, im just saying it would probably be alot less severe or could be overcome despite being severe if a person has less to lose and has fully accepted it.

That makes sense.
Personally, gore has gotten me to the point of not being afraid of death as much, but honestly its probably one of the factors that had led me to consider suicide.

I don't know why people are jumping down your throat. It just makes logical sense. The more you lose hope the more SI can be overcome. Not in all cases but generally. Not everyone can overcome SI, but to overcome SI it seems you must lose hope.

 

[Chronicoverwhelm]

I attempted to CTB as a teenager in 1995. I had ZERO SI, I was ready to go to sleep forever. I had zero fear. At that time, I truly believed there was nothingness after death. I also believed my family would grieve a slight bit and get over it. I felt so much peace in the 2 weeks leading up to my attempt

Fast forward to now and I am READY TO GO but have major SI. My life is even 100x worse now, with a dozen new, more valid reasons to CTB. It's different now because I have all this fear and so much guilt. I have 2 friends that I can't stand the thought of hurting by CTB. I am also no longer 100% certain about there being nothingness after death, and am now terrified of the unknown. I'm planning to go soon and I can say I feel zero peace like I did 1995.

 

[26mmmm]

I attempted to CTB as a teenager in 1995. I had ZERO SI, I was ready to go to sleep forever. I had zero fear. At that time, I truly believed there was nothingness after death. I also believed my family would grieve a slight bit and get over it. I felt so much peace in the 2 weeks leading up to my attempt

Fast forward to now and I am READY TO GO but have major SI. My life is even 100x worse now, with a dozen new, more valid reasons to CTB. It's different now because I have all this fear and so much guilt. I have 2 friends that I can't stand the thought of hurting by CTB. I am also no longer 100% certain about there being nothingness after death, and am now terrified of the unknown. I'm planning to go soon and I can say I feel zero peace like I did 1995.

So I guess that in a way you aren't fully ready to go yet, maybe you're not afraid of dying but you're uncertain about death and have some guilt.

 

[bunny_brownie9]

I get the impression SI tends to come into full force when you are actually physically attempting. So- I guess- I'm curious- have you attempted OP? If you feel up to sharing that is...

I think it's probably one thing predicting how you'll feel and quite another when the time actually comes. I myself have never actually attempted so, I have no clue as to how strong mine might be.

I think I kid myself that I'll just breeze through it! I have a horrible feeling that I am actually kidding myself there though.

this is a very good point.

I OD'd a few years back and did the act no problems, but I called an ambulance afterwards because I got scared and SI kicked in. Hospital told me that if I hadn't of arrived when I did I would've died… but your point is so valid. It can be so different in the moment

 

[Bianka]

It's an instinct. You can't "eliminate" it with thoughts or will. What do you mean? You can overcome it sure but saying "you're not ready to die if you have SI" is pretendcious and just wrong

 

[bluegodism]

i partially agree. anyway, it's an opinion i decided not to give to avoid causing controversy.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

I'm not sure human autonomy is that categorical/black and white.

Having studied human behaviour and psychology, I'm certain that survival instinct varies from moment to moment and is contingent more on contextual factors than an individual's will to die.

It plays a role but in the vast sea of behavioural economics, the extent to one's suicidal intent is not very predictive of actual real-world suicides.

Even the most empirical methods of assessing suicide risk in hospitals have poor predictive validity at best.

Philosophically and neurochemically, autonomy is more like a spectrum with multiple competing interests and motivations.

You give someone the right drug, sleep deprive them, isolate their senses, etc. for just a few hours/days and even the most non-suicidal person may become acutely suicidal with significant motivation to follow through.

Intent alone is insufficient to characterize one's ability to overcome SI.

 

[SexyIncél]

Well, they've passed the suicide threshold: death is preferable to life. But they're looping in that dark zone of suffering where they can't end it



(At least if we take their words at face value. Which we generally do when respecting each other)

 

[Intoxicated]

So you're basically saying a person needs to accept death but dying too to be at peace with suicide.

My main point is that survival instinct is not worth considering in the given context. Explaining failed attempts through survival instinct is too primitive, counterproductive, and likely to be wrong (if we take the differences between reflexes, instincts, and learned behavior into consideration). It doesn't provide us an adequate detailed picture of what actually happens, and it doesn't suggest any good solutions, since survival instinct is commonly viewed as just a magic force that prevents you from killing yourself somehow.

There exist at least three demotivators that can work against suicide: a desire to live and enjoy some things in the life (that can coexist with the desire to die due to the negative aspects of life), unsureness that the chosen suicide method is sufficiently effective and worth using, and intolerance to discomfort. The motivation to commit suicide with the chosen method has to compete with these demotivating factors, and it should be stronger.

A competition between opposite motivations is common. If you're a smoker and you want to stop smoking, your logically reasoned motivation to get rid of the unhealthy habit will compete with the motivation to get rid of the discomfort caused by withdrawal. Most people probably wouldn't associate such a discomfort with the survival instinct, because it motivates towards a self-destructive behavior which is "anti-survival" by its nature. The concept of survival instinct is flawed, it doesn't explain why a discomfort can be destructive in some cases.

Many suicidal attempts were aborted because the actual perceptions happened to be worse than anticipated. The influence of unusual perceptions and possibly altered state of consciousness could make it difficult to analyze the situation logically. In such cases, the decisions are made based on intuition, which may suggest that the whole plan is likely wrong because some part of it doesn't match the initial expectations. This pattern of intuitive thinking is not necessarily instinctive, it could be learned.

You probably can prevent undesirable intuitive decisions via planning and reaching acceptance of the worst scenarios beforehand. On the other hand, belief in difficult-to-overcome survival instinct can be a psychological barrier on itself, which can deprive you from confidence and belief in your abilities. Thinking of suicide as a hard procedure doesn't make you better prepared to it.

 

[notforl0ng]

If you have zero SI when you try to die then you're in a manic episode or are under the influence of something. That's my opinion at least.

 

[Davey40210]

Agree, SI is real.

It also makes sense right - its an easy evolutionary adaptation to increase success of the species/genes, so if it wasn't there that would be strange.

I definitely experience SI at the moment. I must have been on my balcony ready to jump off a dozen times, and have put my head in my noose every day for the last week but then standing back up right when my tunnel vision starts. I hope that one of these days I just accidentally lose consciousness too fast and don't get up in time, that's the dream scenario. I keep needing to reschedule the auto send email to my siblings..