Only a very small political niche group can be considered "good people"

[noname223]

I have some leftwing friends. And they are really far left. I vote for a leftwing centrist party but they vote for the most leftwing party in the parliament.
We were at pro-palestine protests. And one of my friends had the theory there is only a small niche group of good people that can be considered politically sane. For me that is in some ways a generalization. Also because I would not be in the in-group by voting for the SPD. Lol. I think some economic policies of Die Linke don't work out in practice. I find the thought interesting anyway. And it will polarize on here.

But he suggested the following filter for finding people to connect to. In favor of Palestine and against the actions of Israel's government. Even though, the problems probably go deeper than the mere government. Something that is very condemned to say in Germany. But it is true the vast majority of the opposition is also in favor of the genocide. Next point. Pro-Ukraine and against Russia. Something that is polarizing within Die Linke. You find a lot of old lefties at protests who have Russia nostalgia a little bit too much.
Then in favor of gender inclusive language. In favor of trans people. And against humanitarian crises all around the world so that such crises are not forgotten in the media coverage. Movements against the climate crisis but that's a common sense position. Against capitalism. In favor of refugees.

I wonder how big the political tent is considering this coalition. Maybe 12% where I live. The degree of appropriate defense spending is highly contested between leftwingers. And the Russia question is debated. Actually, there was a split between Die Linke and the BSW. BSW is an anti-immigration and pro-Russia party. Most of the members once were part of Die Linke. And since they split Die Linke is on the rise because there are less arguments. The BSW was up but is now marginalized.

 

[Ashu]

No, only vegans can be considered good people.

 

[Pluto]

 

[Hvergelmir]

But he suggested the following filter for finding people to connect to.

My suggestion would be not not judge people too harshly based on political alignment.

All of your listed issues has good people on both sides, and one has to be careful to not inadvertently align with the bad guys, just because they happen to reside in the same camp.

 

[lastappleonearth]

I have some leftwing friends. And they are really far left. I vote for a leftwing centrist party but they vote for the most leftwing party in the parliament.
We were at pro-palestine protests. And one of my friends had the theory there is only a small niche group of good people that can be considered politically sane. For me that is in some ways a generalization. Also because I would not be in the in-group by voting for the SPD. Lol. I think some economic policies of Die Linke don't work out in practice. I find the thought interesting anyway. And it will polarize on here.

But he suggested the following filter for finding people to connect to. In favor of Palestine and against the actions of Israel's government. Even though, the problems probably go deeper than the mere government. Something that is very condemned to say in Germany. But it is true the vast majority of the opposition is also in favor of the genocide. Next point. Pro-Ukraine and against Russia. Something that is polarizing within Die Linke. You find a lot of old lefties at protests who have Russia nostalgia a little bit too much.
Then in favor of gender inclusive language. In favor of trans people. And against humanitarian crises all around the world so that such crises are not forgotten in the media coverage. Movements against the climate crisis but that's a common sense position. Against capitalism. In favor of refugees.

I wonder how big the political tent is considering this coalition. Maybe 12% where I live. The degree of appropriate defense spending is highly contested between leftwingers. And the Russia question is debated. Actually, there was a split between Die Linke and the BSW. BSW is an anti-immigration and pro-Russia party. Most of the members once were part of Die Linke. And since they split Die Linke is on the rise because there are less arguments. The BSW was up but is now marginalized.

People who put themselves on a moral pedestal and view their positions as superior to others, are rarely good people in my opinion. Die Linke is just a symptom of societal polarisation in Germany and the whole of Europe basically. Their positions are ideologically driven and often contradict themselves. For some reason the conflict in the Middle East is far more important to them than a conflict actually happening in our continent not far from us, which is affecting us way more directly.

 

[bagel12]

if defining what a "good person" is or enacting what "good people" do was an easy task, we wouldn't have an entire branch of philosophy dedicated to it (ethics), let alone the thousands of religions and belief systems that approach this issue in their own ways.

in my opinion, no group of people can be considered "good people." it is more realistic to acknowledge that each individual has the capacity to do and support "good" actions that help others and "bad" actions that harm others. many actions help one group while harming another group, so an action that is seen as "good" by one individual may be seen as "bad" by another.

who suffers to enable our resource-intensive lifestyles? who suffers to enable our dietary and consumption habits? who suffers to enable our national security, political aims, and economic goals? through our everyday activities and habits, all of us inadvertently harm others in ways we are unaware of, or don't care about enough to change.

 

[whyshouldinot]

I think it's the association itself with 'politically sane' and 'good person'. If you miss one bandwagon you get left in the dust. You aren't allowed to take time and consider things. It honestly makes you more distrust-worthy to do so, since politics are so radical. You aren't allowed to abstain or else you are, at best, allowing the "other side" to do their evil.

This is just a worldwide phenomenon, and I can't really think of a way to stop it.

 

[PersonBeforeLife]

Good person. Practically anyone who isn't an asshole.

Wars are between governments. Not countries. If Russian politicians were priority military targets the war would be over in a week as I doubt they would be happy living under bunkers their whole lives while their bunker supplies run out. Leave innocent civilians out of it! No drafts. Politicians directly perish for their own wars.

Regarding Palestine and Israel. Nuance actually exists. Democratic Palestine hasn't had any major territorial conflicts with Israel for decades if I'm not mistaken. Only Gaza, even moderate Islam UAE has issues with conservative Islam Gaza and has warned the west about it. With that said Israel definitely isn't innocent but neither is Gaza who target civilians brainwashed into supporting the territorial nonsense, a naked dead girl dragged down the streets of Gaza paraded I will never support a side that does that even if means standing against both sides. Again government against government not country against country.

Will never have a bigger deterrent to war than that.

As for myself... Am I a good person?... I don't actually know... But I'm redundant anyway so what does it matter...

 

[pepperfarmer]

It is impossible to have a perfectly 'good' political position in the sense that nearly all political positions ultimately will cause temporary or consistent strife and suffering for someone; that is the price of politics. There's positions that perhaps shift the suffering towards a more 'deserving' group, ones that only require a temporary strife as opposed to a permanent one, or where the suffering is greatly reduced compared to the status quo, but you have to accept that (mostly) any position you take will hurt someone, somehow.

 

[Somewhat Suicidal]

I've already answered in your other thread with a similar response in some aspects, but would like to a little deeper here and directly address the topic at hand here.

And one of my friends had the theory there is only a small niche group of good people that can be considered politically sane.

Let me guess, it's the group they belong to That's a classic Dunning Kruger at work, otherwise also called delusional.

Im from Germany too, and the reality seems to me, that there are valid arguments made by every single political party that holds any significance to begin with, even the AfD, although I strongly disagree with every conclusion they draw from the valid issues they voice at times. Politics is always a consideration of particular interests of countless individuals, social groups, institutions and so on. It's impossible to do anything without hurting anyone in the process and even impossible to clearly determine which approach hurts the least and benefits the most people in the long or short run because society in inherently way to complex for anyone to reliably predict those outcomes.

Personally, I always was political left leaning, even quite far left at some point, but also disgusted of the people I met there, which is why I returned to being a left leaning centralist as I would call it. This means for me that rational discussion and the weighing of arguments are always more important than ideological narratives which most of the political stances, especially at the far ends of the spectrum seem to come down to. Additionally I don't think right and left are really enough dimensions to describe politics by a long shot, and there's countless other models around at this point trying to address this, containing 3 or more dimensions to categorise any given political current. While I used to vote Green for most of my life, since the Baerbock era I couldn't get myself to do so anymore and have personally found all the parties impossible to vote for from this point onwards. Maybe VOLT would be an alternative I could agree most with these days, but they are completely irrelevant outside of EU parliament. It also seems the Green Party addressed some of my largest criticisms since then, so maybe I'll go back to voting for them, still undecided on that really.

I personally couldn't get myself to march for Palestine more than once either because I've encountered people at protests and seen it countless times in media who celebrated the genocide perpetrated by Hamas on Israelis that preceded Israels genocidal behaviour that followed. I don't stand on either side because I think both parties are in the wrong massively and have been so for the past 20+ years. It's really a pity the 2 state solution didn't take place back then when it was so close to being achieved is really all I want to say about it, because even the questions whose fault that was is quite complex and not trivial to answer. I think most people who choose a clear side in this extremely difficult conflict (I mean the not only the recent events but the larger conflict that has been going on for almost 80 years) are led largely by ideology and not rational objectivism or facts.
The same thing applies to anyone who thinks their political stance is the only sane or rational one or that such a thing even exists. That is just a misguided cope towards the fact that the world and the forces at work are inherently too complex for humans to fully understand and the inacceptance of the cognitive dissonance caused by the fact that many problems don't have a proper and correct solution whatsoever – which is, don't get me wrong, an uncomfortable truth to sit with, but nonetheless a truth that one has to acknowledge in my opinion.

But he suggested the following filter for finding people to connect to. In favor of Palestine and against the actions of Israel's government. Even though, the problems probably go deeper than the mere government. Something that is very condemned to say in Germany. But it is true the vast majority of the opposition is also in favor of the genocide. Next point. Pro-Ukraine and against Russia. Something that is polarizing within Die Linke. You find a lot of old lefties at protests who have Russia nostalgia a little bit too much.
Then in favor of gender inclusive language. In favor of trans people. And against humanitarian crises all around the world so that such crises are not forgotten in the media coverage. Movements against the climate crisis but that's a common sense position. Against capitalism. In favor of refugees.

While I personally agree with the vast majority of the examples given here I think it's incredibly stupid to filter for 'good people' based on their opinion to every single one of these issues (or any subset of these or other issues at hand). It just shows a complete inability to sit with uncomfortable discussions and nuance as well as a lack of the ability to agree to disagree on your friends group's part. It's especially funny to see the political current or group that always proclaims to be the most tolerant to be so blatantly intolerant and dismissive of any form of discourse in general. To get a little more theoretical and philosophical about it, this could be a really enlightening read and probably gets my point across better than I could make it myself:

Toleranz-Paradoxon – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org

 

[PimpHand]

I have some leftwing friends. And they are really far left. I vote for a leftwing centrist party but they vote for the most leftwing party in the parliament.
We were at pro-palestine protests. And one of my friends had the theory there is only a small niche group of good people that can be considered politically sane. For me that is in some ways a generalization. Also because I would not be in the in-group by voting for the SPD. Lol. I think some economic policies of Die Linke don't work out in practice. I find the thought interesting anyway. And it will polarize on here.

But he suggested the following filter for finding people to connect to. In favor of Palestine and against the actions of Israel's government. Even though, the problems probably go deeper than the mere government. Something that is very condemned to say in Germany. But it is true the vast majority of the opposition is also in favor of the genocide. Next point. Pro-Ukraine and against Russia. Something that is polarizing within Die Linke. You find a lot of old lefties at protests who have Russia nostalgia a little bit too much.
Then in favor of gender inclusive language. In favor of trans people. And against humanitarian crises all around the world so that such crises are not forgotten in the media coverage. Movements against the climate crisis but that's a common sense position. Against capitalism. In favor of refugees.

I wonder how big the political tent is considering this coalition. Maybe 12% where I live. The degree of appropriate defense spending is highly contested between leftwingers. And the Russia question is debated. Actually, there was a split between Die Linke and the BSW. BSW is an anti-immigration and pro-Russia party. Most of the members once were part of Die Linke. And since they split Die Linke is on the rise because there are less arguments. The BSW was up but is now marginalized.

That is part of the far-left PsyOp/PsyAbuse. Make you feel like a bad person because your views do not align 100% with their cult.

I do not care. Universal empathy doesn't exist. Most people do not care about all the trauma and abuse I suffered, in fact some people even said they don't have any empathy at all and that I should CTB.

I don't believe in any universal moral compass. Moreover, I believe the only way to live is by not caring at all.

I don't care about Palestine. I don't care about Israel. My only concern are the animals and the nature, but I can't do anything.

Those idiots who yell "Free Palestine" are hypocrites, they are not doing anything, even the old school arabs (idr the names) who hijacked a plane had bigger guts than those people.

Elections in Brazil will happen next month, and I will be a "mandatory volunteer" on it. Help old farts go to their sector. I do not care who wins. I won't vote. I do not believe in anyone. I don't believe in society itself. In fact I wish there was a civil war over here so I could go into some action.

Am I evil? Am I good? Idc. I believe in nature and its ability to heal from human interference. One day, nature will heal from all this.

 

[Hvergelmir]

Given your earlier post, I'll take the time to break this down and write a reply.

That is part of the far-left PsyOp/PsyAbuse. Make you feel like a bad person because your views do not align 100% with their cult.

Valid criticism, but vailed in an accusation directly at OP, where you present them as something of a covert left wing agent.
It reads like an uninformed attack from the conspiratorial rightwing fringe.

Most people do not care about all the trauma and abuse I suffered [...] I don't believe in any universal moral compass. [...] My only concern are the animals and the nature.

Here you challenge the lefts moral compass with pure defeatism. Something along the lines of: Because you can't really do much for the things you care about, the left should stop what they care about.

Those idiots who yell "Free Palestine" [...] are not doing anything. [...] old school arabs who hijacked a plane had bigger guts

Once again; valid criticism, but veiled in aggressive posturing, and followed by sympathy for islamist terrorists and attacks against civilian targets.

I do not believe in anyone. I don't believe in society itself. In fact I wish there was a civil war over here so I could go into some action.

You don't believe in anyone, but you'd happily take up arms to fight for someone?
If you simply want to become a mercenary, Ukraine is still recruiting.

All in all you come through as rather angry and violent. If you want to contribute productively, and have meaningful exchanges, you're better off cutting the aggression and expanding on the criticism.

 

[Somewhat Suicidal]

If you simply want to become a mercenary, Ukraine is still recruiting.

Side note: I looked that up as a weird CTB option, the reality is they don't take mentally ill or people without military background...

 

[PimpHand]

Valid criticism, but vailed in an accusation directly at OP, where you present them as something of a covert left wing agent.
It reads like an uninformed attack from the conspiratorial rightwing fringe.

What? No. I did not intended this towards OP. If anything, I was trying to advise OP to not care for what their friends might say.

Here you challenge the lefts moral compass with pure defeatism. Something along the lines of: Because you can't really do much for the things you care about, the left should stop what they care about.

No. What I wanted to say is: most people use politics as a way to feel better for their relative impotence. They believe that by aligning themselves with the left, they will be able to somehow make a change, even if their action remain the same.

Once again; valid criticism, but veiled in aggressive posturing, and followed by sympathy for islamist terrorists and attacks against civilian targets.

I hate Islam. I just said that they at least tried to do something for what they thought was the right choice. While the "Free Palestine" guys do nothing.

You don't believe in anyone, but you'd happily take up arms to fight for someone?
If you simply want to become a mercenary, Ukraine is still recruiting.

Why would I go to from Brazil to the depths of hell, have to learn a new language just to die?
Also, I don't hate Russians that much. Most Russians are decent people. The government is that holds them down.
Now communists... oh boy... I hate them with my heart and soul.

Side note: I looked that up as a weird CTB option, the reality is they don't take mentally ill or people without military background...

Yeah, my ASD wouldn't be allowed.