Objectively, life is never worth it

[Darkover]

In short, the idea is that life is never worth living, because:

Life contains positive and negative aspects.

If someone doesn't exist, they 100% avoid all negative aspects and miss out on all positive aspects.

But the thing is, while they would miss out on all the good things, this could not bother them, because they don't exist.

So let's even if someone worked in their dream job, had a great social life, never experienced tragic losses, their worst injury was a sprained ankle and they died peacefully at 90 years old, this life would not have been worth it, since if this person wouldn't have existed they avoided all discomfort/suffering, and while they would have missed out on all the good things, this wouldn't have been a problem because they wouldn't have been able to know what they are missing.

the videogame Days Gone. If for some reason my PS4 or the game disc broke or it got canceled during development, this would feel bad, but if I never knew that this game existed, I wouldn't be bothered that I would be missing out on it, because I wouldn't know what I was missing. I hope this analogy makes sense.

 

[untothedepths]

It does. It's why if I had a choice to never have been born, I wouldn't be here. Sometimes I think about if I could just go back and do something right, but I make all the right choices I think I do now and it might as well be for absolutely nothing.

 

[thewalkingdread]

Once we are here, we certainly should try to make "the best" out of this bad predicament, if we can...

But what you said is true: life isn't worth STARTING by any means.

People who willfully bring new human beings to this world/reality thinking it's a great, miraculous, "blessing" are sorely dellusional...

 

[iloverachel]

Facts.
Even if i woke up with a billion dollars life is still not worth it
Life will always be a pointless torturous abomination with no limit to how much one can suffer

 

[LunarLight]

I disagree. Life is the product of incredible luck: it's not worth living if you suffer all your life, but I don't understand why a life of pleasure wouldn't be worth living.

 

[thewalkingdread]

but I don't understand why a life of pleasure wouldn't be worth living.

There is no such a thing as a "life or pleasure"...

 

[LunarLight]

There is no such a thing as a "life or pleasure"...

Well, most people enjoy living. Just because you don't doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

[cosmic-freedom]

I hate being a woman.I hate being born.I hate that I am not born in a better place.I hate that I don't have a high IQ.

 

[sserafim]

I hate being a woman.I hate being born.

I hate being a woman too. It sucks

 

[cosmic-freedom]

I hate being a woman too. It sucks

I just hate that only an invisible chromosome channels everything within our lives.Discrimination,abuse,misogyny,and all that because our bodies have an extra X chromosome.Screw this garbage planet and all its people.

 

[sserafim]

I just hate that only an invisible chromosome channels everything within our lives.Discrimination,abuse,misogyny,and all that because our bodies have an extra X chromosome.Screw this garbage planet and all its people.

Literally. I wish mine had a Y chromosome instead and that I were XY instead of XX

 

[Forever Sleep]

Once a creature is born, I think it's up to them to decide whether life is worth it or not. They may be absolutely tickled pink at the miracle that they exist. Life is subjective after all. You simply won't be able to convince some people that their lives are shit- even if they look that way to you.

That doesn't mean I think it's fair to inflict life on something though, because in my view, it's way too risky and too bigger decision to make for another being. In that sense, I agree that non existence seems the safer option.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

I feel like whether life is worth it or not is completely subjective and cannot be stated as a fact. It's something that comes down to your own life experiences at the end of the day and how view the world. For some people it is worth it and for others it's not. You can't tell someone that life is objectively worth it/not worth it because that's just an opinion based on your own experiences and outlook. Whether life is worth or not can't be objectively measured.

 

[FuneralCry]

The existence of life truly is the most terrible abomination that never should have existed at all, it's tragic to me how life exists when there was never a need for it with nobody being able to suffer from the absence of everything.
To me non-existence certainly is always preferable, in fact all that's ideal to me is being eternally unaware of the evil that is existence but only never existing is true perfection to me. I'd see it as better to not exist as there are no disadvantages to permanent non-existence, in fact it's the absence of all bad as all suffering, pain and torment is ultimately as a result of existence and without existence one cannot suffer in any way.

Yet as long as one exists, existing can potentially get so torturous way beyond how anyone can imagine, in this reality there is potential for the most extreme torment and agony which is disturbing. Existence truly is so futile and unnecessary, I envy those who no longer exist as they lack the ability to suffer and cannot mourn for how they are unable to be tormented in this meaningless existence that just leads to decay and death anyway.

 

[LevUwU]

Yeah, that's sunk cost fallacy in a nutshell

 

[thewalkingdread]

most people enjoy living

Oh, really?! What objective evidence do you have in order to support that statement??

I would argue that the majority of the world population is actually struggling and suffering with bad lives overall — and many of them don't even have their basic needs met.

Just because you don't doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

When I counter-argued to you by saying there is no such a thing as a "life of pleasure" I wasn't extrapolating from my own experience.

My personal experience is irrelevant to the argument.

You are assuming that my stance comes from the fact that I personally don't enjoy life, making an Ad Hominem fallacy.

In reality, my response to you came from my observation of the fact that even the most pleasureable life one could point out will be filled with suffering. Suffering is inevitable. Therefore, there is no such a thing as a "life of pleasure".

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I agree with you completely and this is why I think that giving birth can never be morally good. There's a massive asymmetry between suffering and pleasure when comparing between non existence and existence. Even if somebody were to have a good life, they wouldn't crave that life if they were never born to begin with

 

[Dmoore3232]

that is weird you mentioned video games. I was thinking about a video game metaphor while reading your post title in the section list.

You are looking at it the wrong way I think. How would you live your life if it were a video game? This is the game, yeah it sucks, really bad, how would you live it though?

I think the way to do it is to probably just get old on a beach.

 

[divinemistress36]

People say life has highs and lows I never experience the highs so I have no idea what the hell they are talking about

 

[INTJme]

People say life has highs and lows I never experience the highs so I have no idea what the hell they are talking about

Really? And here I was, thinking, you were a connoisseur of the 'shrooms and devil's lettuce...

I hate being a woman.I hate being born.I hate that I am not born in a better place.I hate that I don't have a high IQ.

Life as a man or with high IQ is no better. Depression gets you no matter who you are and where you were born.

Literally. I wish mine had a Y chromosome instead and that I were XY instead of XX

Why is everyone imagining life as a male is any better? Men die by suicide 4 times more than women. That must tell you something.

 

[willitpass]

This is the same argument that people use when saying so adamantly to suicidal people that life is a blessing and a gift. Both are equally as extreme and neither are completely true or false. Just as someone who tells you that life is a wonderful gift worth living is stating something incorrect for you, you telling someone who is genuinely happy and wants to live that life isn't worth it and everything is ultimately bad isn't true for that person. The thing about life is it is different for everyone. Just because those of us here have suffered immensely and don't see life as worth living doesn't mean other people aren't truly happy and enjoying themselves. There is no one correct way to perceive life. Suicidal people shouldn't be forced to live and told life is some magical precious gift, and happy people shouldn't be forced to be told life is this awful thing they shouldn't want.

 

[davidtorez]

Don't procreate. If you feel you have the need to nurture a child and see it grow , you can always adopt a child and save a life instead of creating more needs and desires

 

[AliceTheGoon]

the videogame Days Gone. If for some reason my PS4 or the game disc broke or it got canceled during development, this would feel bad, but if I never knew that this game existed, I wouldn't be bothered that I would be missing out on it, because I wouldn't know what I was missing. I hope this analogy makes sense.

That you illustrated your point with a video game makes perfect sense.

 

[xinino]

It does not seems right though, because knowing something is existential experience "existence precedes essence"

If someone doesn't exist, they 100% avoid all negative aspects and miss out on all positive aspects.

But the thing is, while they would miss out on all the good things, this could not bother them, because they don't exist.

Here if you suppose non-existing, you are not allowed to use the term "they" or any indication for nothing.
From that ur two examples are wrong.

 

[HeavensOpenDoor]

Literally. I wish mine had a Y chromosome instead and that I were XY instead of XX

Don't wish that lol. At the very least a woman can sell what god gave them and make money to survive. If you're a man you only have 2 options. Work at a dead-end job or die! Oh and you cannot express any feelings or emotions because if you do you're not a real man. So just deal with it because that's what real men do. Still wanna be a man lol??

 

[xinino]

I disagree. Life is the product of incredible luck: it's not worth living if you suffer all your life, but I don't understand why a life of pleasure wouldn't be worth living.

Pleasure is not enough, I need contentment, I can indulge myself all day and still feel like shit afterward, I need something that if I had it, I wouldn't ask for more, which is certainly not a primitive pleasure dopamine cycle, I need a meaningful "big goal" with satisfactory subtasks so pleasure and suffering will be byproducts of that journey.

I feel like whether life is worth it or not is completely subjective and cannot be stated as a fact. It's something that comes down to your own life experiences at the end of the day and how view the world. For some people it is worth it and for others it's not. You can't tell someone that life is objectively worth it/not worth it because that's just an opinion based on your own experiences and outlook. Whether life is worth or not can't be objectively measured.

Truth is one therefore life is objective, life is machine-centered, people are cogs in machines, and they accept it or not, consciously or unconsciously, based on simulations they had from the machine.

Life of machine is more valuable than human one, and that is good thing.

Life as a man or with high IQ is no better. Depression gets you no matter who you are and where you were born.

Right, Elon musk is taking antidepressants, Ted Kaczynski turned to terrorism to destroy machines, that's tell a lot.

 

[sserafim]

Really? And here I was, thinking, you were a connoisseur of the 'shrooms and devil's lettuce...

Life as a man or with high IQ is no better. Depression gets you no matter who you are and where you were born.

Why is everyone imagining life as a male is any better? Men die by suicide 4 times more than women. That must tell you something.

Society is patriarchal and women are systematically oppressed. We're sexualized and subject to the male gaze. We're viewed for our beauty/attractiveness and as sexual objects. We're subject to misogyny and have to deal with it. Men have more power. They control and run governments. There's even a wage gap. Men make more money than women for the same job. Maybe men die by suicide 4 times more than women because men choose more successful methods? I heard that men choose more bloody and violent methods. Ideally, I'd be a rich, white and attractive male because that's who society is built for

 

[INTJme]

Women are systematically oppressed.

I think the word you were looking for is systemically. Yes, it's true, but the corollary to that is that women also have it easy when it comes to survival. For example, you won't find nearly as many homeless women as men.

We're sexualized and subject to the male gaze.

Yes, very true. But some women like it and even use it to their advantage to get ahead in their careers and personal life. Those who don't, well, I can imagine it's indeed not a fun experience to be catcalled and inappropriately touched by "accident" regularly.

Men have more power, and there's even a wage gap.

Physical power? Yes. But socioeconomic power? Not necessarily. More money equals more power and yes, it's true that more men have significant amounts of money than women but that has more to do with patriarchy and how historically women weren't "allowed" to participate in the economy. But that's changed already and it's easier than ever for women to make a name for themselves. Being a man in today's world doesn't give you a head start like it used to.

Maybe that's because men choose more successful methods?

Sure, that explains some of the discrepancy but not all. Men are under tremendous pressure to prove themselves, to attract a woman, to earn decently and even stave off competition for jobs from women now, all while showing no emotional weakness.
By no means am I saying women have it easier. I'd hate to bleed from my woohoo 3-5 days every month while also being expected to hold on to a job, family and hobbies. But men have their own set of challenges. I guess the adage "grass is greener on the other side" rings true in such discourses the most.

 

[davidtorez]

They in this sense is a semantic thing as there is no other word that could be used here

It does not seems right though, because knowing something is existential experience "existence precedes essence"

Here if you suppose non-existing, you are not allowed to use the term "they" or any indication for nothing.
From that ur two examples are wrong.

 

[xinino]

They in this sense is a semantic thing as there is no other word that could be used here

if we follow the existentialist view, "existence precedes essence" it implies that 'nothingness' cannot have a predefined essence because it does not exist in the first place. Therefore, semantically, we can discuss the concept of nothingness, but it's more of a philosophical construct than an entity with existence thus indicating the existence of 'nothing' would be contradictory and misapplication of language. The essence of something, or the meaning we ascribe to it, comes after it comes into existence.

The purpose is to debunk the notion that life is inherently meaningless, in fact meaning is not something found or given but rather something created by each person. Life isn't objectively meaningless, its meaning is subjectively constructed by individuals through their engagements with the world.