“Nice” guys

[Deleted member 19654]

If I come across a guy I like and he seems like a genuinely decent person, we get along great, there's chemistry etc but he shows signs of being a 'nice guy' or seems to be bitter about not getting dates because 'women choose the bad guys', it throws up red flags and it's huge turn off.

 

[RedDEE]

Whenever I'm with a guy, and he tries to treat me like he's been the one that went there to the and I don't agree, but I think it might try and many nice but can't agree upon.

I don't know, what do you guys think?

 

[Fedrea]

Whenever I'm with a guy, and he tries to treat me like he's been the one that went there to the and I don't agree, but I think it might try and many nice but can't agree upon.

I don't know, what do you guys think?

I think I'm going to send you a Virtual hug and a nice cup of tea, have a sit down

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Whenever I'm with a guy, and he tries to treat me like he's been the one that went there to the and I don't agree, but I think it might try and many nice but can't agree upon.

I don't know, what do you guys think?

I think that was word salad.

 

[TrailerTrash]

It's one of those times when you wish you knew it was coming so you could say something like "oh yes, let's hook up right now ... I mean, the puss is hardly draining anymore from the sores I've been having for a few weeks on my ".... " private areas". Then wait for the blank stare ...... Sucks this happened ...... certainly a move I would never do with a person solidly established in the friend zone.

 

[muffin222]

What women say they want and what they actually want are two very different things.

How can you generalize all women? You haven't met more than a tiny, tiny fraction of all of the women on Earth. Who are you to speak for "women"? Quite a few men seem to be frustrated that women aren't attracted to them, yet they generalize and pigeonhole all women into boxes and try to speak for them as if they can know how all women think and feel. Then, those same guys seem to wonder why so few women are interested. Gee, I wonder why

 

[sourpink]

@Wayfaerer that is an absolutely disgusting blanket statement bro. says everything about you and nothing about the women you're generalizing.
yep, secret's out - I'm a feminist and I don't think we should let comments like that slide.
those ideas are what leads men to act the way they did with OP.

 

[Mud.]

I'm a male in my mid-forties so maybe I'm just old fashioned but I think women are great!

I know this is not a very political correct opinion these days since everybody has to be the same but from my experience, they're by far the more kind and caring gender. Sure, there are bitches out there but there's a whole army of assholes too.

Best wishes to the OP

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Wow that took longer than I thought.

 

[Busdriver]

Situation sucks for you @Maxtothemax.
I think it is important for both men and women to tell their intentions in the beginning of the 'relation'. You did and were probably thinking it was possible to remain friends.

If one of the 2 says that there are no romantical feelings for the other then it is better to stop being friends. A large group of people think men and women can be friends, but another large group find that they cannot be friends.

Both men and women have their criticism on the opposite gender regarding dating and this will go on forever.

We are all in the same SS boat together eventually. It is peace of mind we all want, not be a group of divided suicidals.

We have a lot more to worry about like surviving daily dreadness and we stick together to overcome the toxic happiness of pro-lifers.

For OP: I wish you strength and happiness.

 

[Good4Nothing]

If I come across a guy I like and he seems like a genuinely decent person, we get along great, there's chemistry etc but he shows signs of being a 'nice guy' or seems to be bitter about not getting dates because 'women choose the bad guys', it throws up red flags and it's huge turn off.

This sounds contradictory to me.
And...






This is why I want to kill myself.

 

[Deleted member 19654]

This sounds contradictory to me.
And...






This is why I want to kill myself.

Why do you think it sounds contradictory?

 

[RedDEE]

Every time I try to get into a relationship, the mean guys act nice to me when I want them to be mean. And all the nice guys are mean to me when I want them to be nice. I think I'm going to give up on this, and just give myself a baby instead.

 

[Mm80]

I think gpe is the person to listen to on these things. In fairness from what you have said it sounds like the initial bit was not that bad and its very common. You werent looking for someone but he thought by being in your life as a friend would lead to you having feelings for him and changing your mind. Or he could have been deluding himself by believing he could just be a friend because he liked you and would prefer friendship than not seeing you at all.these things are pretty common.
What isnt ok is that when he made his advance and you rejected him that he turned it around and tried to blame you and make you feel guilty. Thats trying to fuck with your head and unfair.
At that point the right thing to do would have been for him to accept he has feelings for you and admit it, take responsibility that he got it wrong and not blame you as you were upfront with him. And then be honest and say that he cant just be friends with you as he would want more, and wish you all the best.
Hopefully it will be a learning curve for him and you wont take his comments too personally.

 

[Deleted member 19654]

I think gpe is the person to listen to on these things. In fairness from what you have said it sounds like the initial bit was not that bad and its very common. You werent looking for someone but he thought by being in your life as a friend would lead to you having feelings for him and changing your mind. Or he could have been deluding himself by believing he could just be a friend because he liked you and would prefer friendship than not seeing you at all.these things are pretty common.
What isnt ok is that when he made his advance and you rejected him that he turned it around and tried to blame you and make you feel guilty. Thats trying to fuck with your head and unfair.
At that point the right thing to do would have been for him to accept he has feelings for you and admit it, take responsibility that he got it wrong and not blame you as you were upfront with him. And then be honest and say that he cant just be friends with you as he would want more, and wish you all the best.
Hopefully it will be a learning curve for him and you wont take his comments too personally.

I would hope that he learns from this and he changes his ways because I don't want another woman to go through the same shit. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like he has yet because it's been about 3 years since I last spoke to him till he tried to contact me again today.

 

[Mercury6737]

How has this thread not been deleted? Genuinely curious.

 

[Deleted member 17949]

Some men are unable to manage their warped fantasies. They hear you say "no I don't want to date anyone" but they have it in their heads that you can still be 'unlocked' somehow and that their kindness will result in attraction. On top of that, a lot of people seem to think kindness is a good reason for someone to fall in love with you alone and don't seem to understand that love is a lot more complex than that.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I had a guy friend who was definitely a nice guy, a guy who had ethics for sure, and not an alpha type. He'd been in the military, been in combat, rode motorcycles. But I'd say while he could be tough, he was more of a beta than an alpha.

When we met, he had a crush on me. I didn't have one back. We were friends for a very long time, I think seven years. He would often comment on my Facebook with hubba-hubba type remarks, even when he had girlfriends. He'd always compliment me, set up the compliments with an "I'm not trying to hit on you," and then extol my greatness. No matter who he was with or how much in love, he'd always extol me, and I had the feeling that if I showed interest, he'd dump whoever he was with, though he denied it when I brought it up once. I continued to make it clear we were friends and no more, and only once on a photo of him in a suit did I say wow.

What I didn't notice because I didn't know enough at the time, was how he would talk about something with his ex-wife. When they'd gotten into an argument, the cops were called and he ended up going to jail. He always claimed he was innocent. But looking back, I can see the red flag. It all came together when our friendship ended.

Once again, he was extolling me, calling me a goddess. I didn't like it. I didn't like being on a pedestal, especially when it was not accurate. For the millionth time, I gently but firmly tried to get him to back off from that, and he finally lost it. He yelled, "Goodbye! Goodbye! Goodbye!" and hung up.

Now that I understand the pattern, it makes a lot of sense. All that time in the friend zone, he'd kept hoping. He didn't hear my No but a Maybe. He didn't see me as I am, but as a glorified version of myself. If I'd ever gotten together with him, he would have treated me like a goddess. Then eventually I wouldn't live up to being a goddess, I'd fall from the pedestal, and the devaluing and subtle abuse would start. It just seems like a textbook recipe for domestic violence.

We had friends in common. I always felt uncomfortable with his gushing, but one of my female friends in our group said to let him feel what he feels, it was harmless. Now I know to listen to my gut. If it feels yucky, it is yucky. If it doesn't feel good, it's not good. If there is not agreement about who I fundamentally am and about how one acts in a friendship, then there is a battle going on, and I don't want to be in battle. I would have done much better to cut it off early on, but that was almost a decade ago, and I didn't know then what I firmly know now. I didn't have the resources to help me figure this stuff out and to give me the foundation and internal support that I have now.

 

[RedDEE]

I knew a nice guy that rode motorcycles. He kept hitting on me, but it turned out he was in love with his motorcycle. They got married 2 months later.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I knew a nice guy that rode motorcycles. He kept hitting on me, but it turned out he was in love with his motorcycle. They got married 2 months later.

I suspect that when you first started studying Buddhism, you confused arhat for asshat...

 

[RedDEE]

I suspect that when you first started studying Buddhism, you confused arhat for asshat...

LOL.. Haven't heard that one, good one!

Just trying to make this thread more light-hearted. This is a very sensitive subject that triggers a lot of people. This kind of thread shouldn't be in the suicide discussion forum, it should be in offtopic. This thread is only asking for arguments and hurt feelings. I'm just trying to spread some love.. peace!

 

[sourpink]

@RedDEE I agree completely.. I didn't initially realize it but it was a trigger from the get-go for me. that said, I do tend to trust other more easily knowing the other person doesn't hold any bigoted beliefs of any kind. so as much as this thread has been upsetting I've also been able to gauge to what I degree I should trust members with certain reasons why ctb'ing is happening. I guess this is eye opening in that ideation is not the sole foundation of common ground.
but maybe I'm overthinking.

 

[CarbonMonoxide]

This sounds contradictory to me.
And...






This is why I want to kill myself.

I understand your exasperation with women who love abusive men. It nagged me for a while until I got it. Some of these women grew up in abusive households. Watching your mother get mistreated and beaten by your dad tends to put women off men, but it also makes some women attracted to these kinds of men. We also have women who grew up without fathers. Some of them have hundreds of sex partners in their adult life. These women, like most of us here on SS are damaged. There's nothing to can do about it.

There's also a tendency of some men to confuse being nice with being whiny and boring. Like it or not, women, like men will be attracted to people with exciting personalities and interesting lives. We love people who have a certain edge, a wild part of themselves that seems unattainable. Something you have to work to get. This is what makes pick up artists annoyingly successful. It sucks but you can't change human nature.

 

[LetsGosam]

Ugh. Nice guys

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I understand your exasperation with women who love abusive men. It nagged me for a while until I got it. Some of these women grew up in abusive households. Watching your mother get mistreated and beaten by your dad tends to put women off men, but it also makes some women attracted to these kinds of men. We also have women who grew up without fathers. Some of them have hundreds of sex partners in their adult life. These women, like most of us here on SS are damaged. There's nothing to can do about it.

There's also a tendency of some men to confuse being nice with being whiny and boring. Like it or not, women, like men will be attracted to people with exciting personalities and interesting lives. We love people who have a certain edge, a wild part of themselves that seems unattainable. Something you have to work to get. This is what makes pick up artists annoyingly successful. It sucks but you can't change human nature.

On both sides, there is also a crazy-making tendency to not accept others as they are but to want to fix them and make them into an ideal version rather than what is. I think women do it more than men, though. If we all accepted others exactly as we find them, we'd probably have vastly different relationships in our lives, and maybe less of them. But we have to know and accept ourselves first, I think.

And yes, there is that element of excitement and danger. Sometimes women want to be taken on that ride to their own detriment, and sometimes they're enticed by the impossible challenge of taming or refining them to make the bad boys into an ideal.

 

[262653]

I the defense of people who "think with their dicks", let's not forget that there are forces more powerful than reason. As a suicidal person, I know well how it is when my reason is overwritten with something more primitive and influential.

And about friendship between man and woman. Once I got to know a girl over the internet, I felt that strange attraction to her, but it wasn't sexual. We talked a lot, and over time I said that I have developed sexual feelings for her. She said she is asexual. Now, even though I understand that she's not interested in sex, the desire to fuck her still persists. Probably it's better for both of us that we never met offline. When one wants to fuck and the other one does not, it creates the conflict of interest, which makes them enemies, and that's the opposite of friends. So my stance is that friendship between man and woman is generally more unstable than between man and man, woman and woman, assuming that heterosexuality is more common than homosexuality.

 

[CarbonMonoxide]

If we all accepted others exactly as we find them, we'd probably have vastly different relationships in our lives, and maybe less of them. But we have to know and accept ourselves first, I think.

I just realized how well this describes the vast divide between suicidal people and prolifers. The prolifer fails to accept the suicidal person for who they really are, trying to fit them into the little box of their world view.

I agree though that some people are caught in a terrible cycle of dating bad people, hoping to change them somehow. They fail, the relationship ends and a similar cycle begins with another toxic individual.

So my stance is that friendship between man and woman is generally more unstable than between man and man, woman and woman, assuming that heterosexuality is more common than homosexuality.

In most of my "friendships" with women, there always seem to be flirtatious undertones. Platonic physical intimacy is also much more prevalent than with male friends. It can get confusing for some guys who expect male-female friendships to be similar to same sex ones.

 

[alfie]

But...he didn't have to stay in the zone. As soon as she made it clear she wasn't interested, he could have left the friend zone and disengaged from her, rather than trying to find a different way into the zone he wanted.

I'm genuinely disheartened that many guys interpret the offer of female friendship this way, like there are zones that lead closer or further to access to our combined hearts and vaginas. If we cut the guy off completely, we're horrible. If we offer platonic friendship, we're banishing him to a torturous zone. Males do it to females as well, and plenty of females maintain the offered friendship in hope it will develop into something further. So it's not just a nice guy thing. It's a matter of not accepting the other person's No, and not wanting that to which they said Yes, instead trying to manipulate that zone of Yes to get closer and get a Yes to the zone they really want access to.

We are our boundaries. They determine how we are separate from one another, and what is okay to come in. Our skin is a basic example. A fence with a gate is another, which encloses zones like the front yard, the house, and further in rooms that determine what is shared and what is more intimate and therefore restricted. If someone doesn't love and respect our boundaries, then they don't love and respect us, they don't see us as we are, nor accept us as we say we are. That's frustrating, even crazy-making. If someone wants in a zone we don't give access to, and keeps trying to find a way in, they're battling against a boundary, whether overtly or covertly. Battling is the act of an enemy, and reinforces the choice to have set that boundary.

Regardless of gender, no means no, and not having it heard, accepted and respected is frustrating, because that means there's a battle in progress, a battle over a boundary. I've been on both sides of this, and I had to learn the painful way that someone has the right to exclude me from their life when I don't accept their No and try to get them to change it. Now I really respect them for that exclusion, even though it hurt at the time, because I value boundaries so much, and I value self-protection and the self-determining right to choose.

Superbly written... This reminds me of how my father kept trying to barge into my room even when I had already installed a door chain to try to keep him out. During the span of my life, a lot of people have violated my boundaries and this has traumatized me...