Resource N specifications

[Ta555]

Wow I never thought I'd be making another thread on here but I think this is important for people to know.

I come in and check on the N threads every once in a while and I noticed there's a couple of members who have been repeating information that I find dubious who have never replied to any of my requests for evidence. So I want to share with you what I think the misinformation is and why I think it's misinformation.

1. One member has more than once claimed that they have it from a VERY RELIABLE source that one bottle is needed per 110lb/50kg of body weight. I have now asked them three times to site this very reliable source and they have continually ignored me.
2. Another point these people make is that there's now more and more evidence which points to more two or more bottles being needed if you don't want to end up in a coma. Again, no sources sited.

Firstly, the PPH states the coma happens extremely rarely and to people who have been heavy drinkers or long term psychiatric drug users ok? It is not a random occurrence.

Secondly, I have found and am attaching a safety data sheet for pentobarbital which states the minimum lethal dose is 36mg per kg of body weight. That means 2g of pento is the minimum lethal dose for a 110lb/50kg person. One bottle contains 6g. Unlike the user who refuses to provide any sources I'm attaching the screenshot of the safety data sheet. If you want to find it yourself Google "pentobarbital LDLO Cayman" and it should be the first pdf that comes up.

Someone told me a while ago to never take anything at face value in this site, always always do your own research which is why I did. Not saying you have to trust the safety sheet I found but it sounds a hell of a lot more reliable than a stranger on the internet saying 'I have it from a *very* reliable source that...'.

Take care everyone. (And please don't pm asking for D's email. I'm happy to confirm it but I'm not giving it out.)

 

[CassieHoward]

So if I could just ask (and confirm for others curious, basically): in the most technical of senses, one bottle would be sufficient?

It seems to be the general consensus that two is optimal, but surely one is acceptable as well - please correct me if this is incorrect.

 

[Ta555]

So if I could just ask (and confirm for others curious, basically): in the most technical of senses, one bottle would be sufficient?

It seems to be the general consensus that two is optimal, but surely one is acceptable as well - please correct me if this is incorrect.

When PPH talks about N it talks about it in the singular. 'Drink your bottle of N' etc. I have not read anything about two bottles in the PPH but please double check for yourself. Yes, two bottles will make it FASTER but not necessarily more lethal.

 

[CassieHoward]

When PPH talks about N it talks about it in the singular. 'Drink your bottle of N' etc. I have not read anything about two bottles in the PPH but please double check for yourself. Yes, two bottles will make it FASTER but not necessarily more lethal.

Oh, interesting - the way it was always described to me was that one bottle gives you a 99% chance of a lethal outcome, while the second bottle covers that last 1%.

 

[Ta555]

Oh, interesting - the way it was always described to me was that one bottle gives you a 99% chance of a lethal outcome, while the second bottle covers that last 1%.

Sure, I'll agree with that.

 

[new.solution1]

PPH says 1.

Five Last Acts says 2.

Wow I never thought I'd be making another thread on here but I think this is important for people to know.

I come in and check on the N threads every once in a while and I noticed there's a couple of members who have been repeating information that I find dubious who have never replied to any of my requests for evidence. So I want to share with you what I think the misinformation is and why I think it's misinformation.

1. One member has more than once claimed that they have it from a VERY RELIABLE source that one bottle is needed per 110lb/50kg of body weight. I have now asked them three times to site this very reliable source and they have continually ignored me.
2. Another point these people make is that there's now more and more evidence which points to more two or more bottles being needed if you don't want to end up in a coma. Again, no sources sited.

Firstly, the PPH states the coma happens extremely rarely and to people who have been heavy drinkers or long term psychiatric drug users ok? It is not a random occurrence.

Secondly, I have found and am attaching a safety data sheet for pentobarbital which states the minimum lethal dose is 36mg per kg of body weight. That means 2g of pento is the minimum lethal dose for a 110lb/50kg person. One bottle contains 6g. Unlike the user who refuses to provide any sources I'm attaching the screenshot of the safety data sheet. If you want to find it yourself Google "pentobarbital LDLO Cayman" and it should be the first pdf that comes up.

Someone told me a while ago to never take anything at face value in this site, always always do your own research which is why I did. Not saying you have to trust the safety sheet I found but it sounds a hell of a lot more reliable than a stranger on the internet saying 'I have it from a *very* reliable source that...'.

Take care everyone. (And please don't pm asking for D's email. I'm happy to confirm it but I'm not giving it out.)

I also asked 3 times.

 

[WhiteyBulger]

2 bottles is just under 8 oz. I plan to coat my tongue with Orajel, then with honey. Then it'll be time to plug and chug (plug my nose and chug away like Nick Cage in Leaving Las Vegas. Immediately after, I'll slug down some Bailey's (not too much though b/c the cream I've seen rebound on people in the most Exorcist fashion). Anti-emetics beforehand. But I'm twice the man I used to be, so I'm going with the two bottles Big Gulp.

 

[Sunset Limited]

For oral pentobarbital poisoning, you cannot do a human scientific study. In fact, IV doses of barbiturates are also quite specific. 36mg/kg dose is not scientific. Probably the lowest dose ever reported to have killed someone. A bottle of N will probably kill someone who isn't addicted to drugs. I think this is the only important point here. Long-term marijuana addicts have a high tolerance to anesthetics such as barbiturates and propofol. I read that they had to give 800mg of propofol to a marijuana addict. That's almost 5.5 times the standard induction dose. If you give this dose to a non-addicted person, the circulation collapses and the patient dies. If I was a drug addict I would go with 2 bottles. 1 bottle should be enough for a non-addicted person, but still no one can offer a guarantee. When it comes to the human body, the sum of two and two is not four. The most experienced organization in this regard is Dignitas. It's a good way to trust the data from there and follow the procedure exactly.

 

[Ta555]

Oh, interesting - the way it was always described to me was that one bottle gives you a 99% chance of a lethal outcome, while the second bottle covers that last 1%.

For oral pentobarbital poisoning, you cannot do a human scientific study. In fact, IV doses of barbiturates are also quite specific. 36mg/kg dose is not scientific. Probably the lowest dose ever reported to have killed someone. A bottle of N will probably kill someone who isn't addicted to drugs. I think this is the only important point here. Long-term marijuana addicts have a high tolerance to anesthetics such as barbiturates and propofol. I read that they had to give 800mg of propofol to a marijuana addict. That's almost 5.5 times the standard induction dose. If you give this dose to a non-addicted person, the circulation collapses and the patient dies. If I was a drug addict I would go with 2 bottles. 1 bottle should be enough for a non-addicted person, but still no one can offer a guarantee. When it comes to the human body, the sum of two and two is not four. The most experienced organization in this regard is Dignitas. It's a good way to trust the data from there and follow the procedure exactly.

This is why I keep saying it's the minimum lethal dose. Key word: minimum. This is also why I said about the extended comas being something that happens to people who have a long history with mind altering drugs. What did I say that is false?

 

[CassieHoward]

This is why I keep saying it's the minimum lethal dose. Key word: minimum. This is also why I said about the extended comas being something that happens to people who have a long history with mind altering drugs. What did I say that is false?

I'm not accusing you of any incorrect info at all - I apologize if it came off that way. I was just saying what I had heard before and, truthfully, I have absolutely no way of knowing if that info was correct or not. It was just what I had heard.

I don't know anything about N beyond the basics, so information like this is very helpful for me. Thank you!

 

[Ta555]

I'm not accusing you of any incorrect info at all - I apologize if it came off that way. I was just saying what I had heard before and, truthfully, I have absolutely no way of knowing if that info was correct or not. It was just what I had heard.

I don't know anything about N beyond the basics, so information like this is very helpful for me. Thank you!

No worries Cassie. I was replying to @Sunset Limited

 

[CassieHoward]

No worries Cassie. I was replying to @Sunset Limited

Oh, lol. Sorry, I completely missed that that was a quotation from someone else!

 

[Red Scare]

a long history with mind altering drugs.

I read your earlier comment about alcohol and psychiatric medication but what about if someone has been an opiate user for a few years? Would you think that person would require more n than a normal person?

 

[Ta555]

I read your earlier comment about alcohol and psychiatric medication but what about if someone has been an opiate user for a few years? Would you think that person would require more n than a normal person?

I have no idea. I only know what PPH says and they only talk about antipsychotics sorry. You can try googling for morphine barbiturate drug interactions and see if anything comes up.

 

[Red Scare]

I have no idea. I only know what PPH says and they only talk about antipsychotics sorry. You can try googling for morphine barbiturate drug interactions and see if anything comes up.

From what I have seen, it into talks about the additive effects of administering opiates with barbiturates. I haven't found anything about someone who has a tolerance to opiates needing more n or anything like that.

 

[BrokenBliss]

From what I have seen, it into talks about the additive effects of administering opiates with barbiturates. I haven't found anything about someone who has a tolerance to opiates needing more n or anything like that.

I've been trying to get an answer to that for quite some time, with no luck. I invite @Sunset Limited to comment. Otherwise, I'll keep researching and share any useful info with you, Red. Hope you'll do the same.

 

[Red Scare]

Long-term marijuana addicts have a high tolerance to anesthetics such as barbiturates and propofol. I read that they had to give 800mg of propofol to a marijuana addict. That's almost 5.5 times the standard induction dose. If you give this dose to a non-addicted person, the circulation collapses and the patient dies. If I was a drug addict I would go with 2 bottles.

Where is this information coming from? Where did you read that?

 

[Sunset Limited]

This is why I keep saying it's the minimum lethal dose. Key word: minimum. This is also why I said about the extended comas being something that happens to people who have a long history with mind altering drugs. What did I say that is false?

What makes you think you said something wrong? I just gave this community information about the subject, not a personal answer to you. What you say is largely true. Only 36mg/kg cannot belong to a scientific study as a specific dose. Because you can't do a scientific study where you divide people into groups A B C and give you lethal doses of pentobarbital. This is probably the smallest dose among cases reported to have died from oral pentobarbital poisoning. Still, this dataset is far from scientific as it doesn't include everyone on the planet. Even IV doses of barbiturates are highly specific.

Where is this information coming from? Where did you read that?

Information from anesthesiologists.

What is the largest dose of propofol you have had to give someone for anesthesia induction?

Answer (1 of 2): I’ve given close to 600 mg; one of my former residents claims that she has given 800 mg. There seems to be an association between regular cannabis use and high propofol requirements. I have data from 13,300 endoscopies done over a 2 year period, the largest dose in that dataset i...

www.quora.com

 

[bad luck]

so scared Weight 88kg. Alcoholic and taking benzodiazepines for 20 years :(

 

[Sunset Limited]

so scared Weight 88kg. Alcoholic and taking benzodiazepines for 20 years :(

It seems that alcohol abuse also increases barbiturate tolerance. Benzodiazepines are also GABA A receptor agonists, although not as potent as barbiturates.

Influence of Alcohol and Tobacco Use on Sodium Thiopental Requirements in General Anesthesia: A Retrospective Study of 700 Patients

Hospital charts of 700 patients who had undergone upper gastrointestinal surgery were reviewed to examine the relationship between alcohol abuse and dose of intravenous sodium thiopental (Pentothal) required to induce general anesthesia. Patients who ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[bad luck]

It seems that alcohol abuse also increases barbiturate tolerance. Benzodiazepines are also GABA A receptor agonists, although not as potent as barbiturates.

Influence of Alcohol and Tobacco Use on Sodium Thiopental Requirements in General Anesthesia: A Retrospective Study of 700 Patients

Hospital charts of 700 patients who had undergone upper gastrointestinal surgery were reviewed to examine the relationship between alcohol abuse and dose of intravenous sodium thiopental (Pentothal) required to induce general anesthesia. Patients who ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I have survived two alcoholic comas without consequences and once I took 100mg of diazepam to see what would happen, and I swear to God I was insomniac for 8 hours until I fell asleep at dawn

 

[Sunset Limited]

I have survived two alcoholic comas without consequences and once I took 100mg of diazepam to see what would happen, and I swear to God I was insomniac for 8 hours until I fell asleep at dawn

Sorry to hear that. Presumably this increases your barbiturate tolerance.

 

[Red Scare]

Information from anesthesiologists.

What is the largest dose of propofol you have had to give someone for anesthesia induction?

Answer (1 of 2): I’ve given close to 600 mg; one of my former residents claims that she has given 800 mg. There seems to be an association between regular cannabis use and high propofol requirements. I have data from 13,300 endoscopies done over a 2 year period, the largest dose in that dataset i...

www.quora.com

That's not information, that is at best highly anecdotal.

 

[Sunset Limited]

That's not information, that is at best highly anecdotal.

"There seems to be an association between regular cannabis use and high propofol requirements."

If an anesthesiologist tells you this, you should take it seriously. And a scientific study here

High quantities: Evaluating the association between cannabis use and propofol anesthesia during endoscopy - PubMed

Our data suggest that cannabis use is significantly associated with the quantity of propofol needed for sedation at endoscopy. Further study is needed to better understand the molecular basis for this possible drug-drug interaction.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Red Scare]

"There seems to be an association between regular cannabis use and high propofol requirements."

If an anesthesiologist tells you this, you should take it seriously. And a scientific study here

High quantities: Evaluating the association between cannabis use and propofol anesthesia during endoscopy - PubMed

Our data suggest that cannabis use is significantly associated with the quantity of propofol needed for sedation at endoscopy. Further study is needed to better understand the molecular basis for this possible drug-drug interaction.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The guy in the quora thread says his resident "claimed" to give someone 800mg, that is hardly scientific evidence.

And propofol is different then pentobarbital. They are two different drugs.

 

[Sunset Limited]

The guy in the quora thread says his resident "claimed" to give someone 800mg, that is hardly scientific evidence.

And propofol is different then pentobarbital. They are two different drugs.

I didn't write about N, I already wrote about propofol. However, propofol and N are both GABA A receptor agonists. The mechanisms of action are similar. I don't think an anesthesiologist giving you information on Quora has a valid reason to lie or manipulate you. Did you read what I said? " I read that they had to give 800mg of propofol to a marijuana addict." I wrote this because it is an example that seems interesting to me, not because there is scientific evidence. The part you need to take seriously here is that the anesthesiologist wrote that there is a correlation between the dose of cannabis and propofol. I also gave you the link for the scientific study.

However, the relationship between propofol and cannabis does not provide us with definitive information about N. It just gives an idea that if someone has decided to go with N and is addicted to cannabis, they should be careful about N dosage.

 

[Red Scare]

It just gives an idea that if someone has decided to go with N and is addicted to cannabis, they should be careful about N dosage.

Why? There's not even any real information about propofol and marijuana. You don't even know that was a real anesthesiologists responding, and it's really not a question of "why would they lie?" but in reality that wasn't even anything more than an anecdote. They said they remembers a former student claiming to give somebody something... that's hardly a credible statement. People say whatever they want on the internet.

 

[Sunset Limited]

Why? There's not even any real information about proposal and marijuana. You don't even know that was a real anesthesiologists responding, and it's really not a question of "why would they lie?" but in reality that wasn't even anything more than an anecdote. They said they remembers a former student claiming to give somebody something... that's hardly a credible statement. People say whatever they want on the internet.

I don't know why, but I find your approach and answers offensive. You're right, he may not be a real anesthesiologist. I'm sure he's a shoemaker who likes to play anesthesiologist on Quora You are free to believe what you want. I'll do myself a favor and block you. Thus a happier SS experience. Goodbye.