Ms.Starr

Ms.Starr

Member
Sep 10, 2022
48
....but it isn't just that.

Therapists always "break me" instead of helping me to heal. Now my heart is sore and beats a little lighter than it did yesterday; it feels so heavy. My anxiety is paralyzing.

My therapist broke up with me today in a way that showed no accountability for them being the one who initiated it. It makes it seem like I am beyond the reach of being helped. He did it in a way that was unethical and devastatingly painful; I am in pure emotional turmoil.

I have been discarded so much in my life that I no longer feel like a human being anymore. I feel like human trash without a soul. If I had one, people would be kind.

I am not worthy of being treated with basic decency; I guess. I am so damaged that even mental health professionals grow cold and estranged from their compassionate nature to treat me.

The worst part is that he works in my shelter. I have to pass by his office to use the restroom, take a shower, and go to the cafeteria.

I don't have the will to eat, shower, or change my clothing. I don't have the will to live. Once you reach this point you just entirely give yourself over to the process of decay.

I am going to start the process of starving myself to death. I may decide to "cbt" in another way before I can starve to death though. For now, starving to death is my solace. I hate myself for being myself; in the condition I am in. I hate that something is so bad about me that people can't tolerate my existence and I can't live with the knowledge. I don't think my body can support life anymore.



Starvation day #1
 
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BlazingBob

BlazingBob

I'm still here b/c of my dogs
Oct 28, 2021
602
I've been dumped by a psychiatrist (after 3 years), 2 psychologists, and a therapist. They all said my case was too extreme and they couldn't help me. I went to see a psychiatrist at a county mental health facility back in May and he told me given my physical health problems and other issues there was nothing he could do for me and sent me on my way. I hope there are some normy do gooders who read this. The kind that say there's help available, there's always hope! Two words: fuck you! I should mention that in addition to trying almost every medication available and not being helped, I also tried TMS and ketamine infusions with zero success.
 
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Holu

Holu

Hypomania go brrr
Apr 5, 2023
673
As a psych major and someone who has a social worker stepmother I want to apologize for modern mental health professionals. Furthermore, as someone who has spent more than half their existence in therapy between multiple therapists, it's sad to say it's not uncommon for therapists to abandon their clients.

While I can't say exactly what the reason is for you particular therapist, a lot of the times it's due to a lack of foreseeable progress. A therapist who believes they are stuck feels incapable of assisting and cuts ties, despite the glaringly obvious negative consequences that has.

There's a lot of therapists, and too many of them seem to be problem solvers instead of healers. I don't really know what your situation is like, but it sounds like you really need someone there for you, and if so then it's nothing but despicable for your therapist to leave you.

There's a lot of suffering in this world, and it's disheartening that the people trained to fix it fail where they are needed. I'm of the belief that some situations are simply just hopeless. I really wish consensual euthanasia was legal, as everyone deserves a painless and peaceful way out. Society isn't ready to swallow that pill yet tho :P.

I hope your starvation goes okay, and if your intent is to follow through then I wish you nothing but strength. If not, maybe try the night-night method, as it's somewhat easy to obtain since you can shoplift the needed items out of most general stores.

Once again, I'm truly sorry. I know how little it really means coming from a stranger on the internet, but regardless I feel compelled. The world and humanity may have turned their backs on you, but just know that you have more soul than the vast majority. If people are so uncaring that they would abandon and discard you, then really they aren't worth much shit anyways

I wish you strength in your endeavors. May you find peace in whatever you do next. Take care soldier.
 
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N

NoHorizon

Experienced
Nov 22, 2022
276
That sounds utterly heartbreaking, I'm so sorry. I can't really articulate what I want to say except that you deserve more kindness.
 
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Wyldfyre4948

Wyldfyre4948

Waiting for my bus
Jul 12, 2023
377
I think I lost my therapist. He told me about his successes and that no patient has popped his cherry yet. Pretty sure he is trying to protect his record.
 
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MrDarkness

MrDarkness

Left sasu, to improve my life
Jun 18, 2023
1,066
I'm sorry this had to happen to you, life is truly shit, starving to death is extremely painful way to go, I hope your able to find peace
 
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W

WantsToJumpAlready

Member
Jul 17, 2023
27
I am so sorry. I know you must be exhausted but please don't give up your therapist search. Like someone said above modern mental health professionals suck. I had a therapist "break up" with me and I realized that was due to her ignorance and had nothing to do with me. It took me 3 years after that to find my current therapist who is awesome. I cycled through about 10 before finding my current one and would drop them after 1-2 sessions knowing they weren't going to be helpful. Again I know you're probably exhausted, but don't stop looking for someone who's the right fit for you. This is not a reflection on you whatsoever, it's a reflection of the ignorance and lack of education in the psych field.
 
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O

offbalance

All I want is peace
Dec 16, 2021
203
You're not alone :(
I have a lot of bad therapist stories, you don't have to read this but I wanna get it out I suppose.
I know I can be difficult sometimes but my therapist seemed to sometimes laugh at me sometimes or sound more like a judgmental mother than a therapist.
One of them I dropped after two sessions because she couldn't even hide it in her face she was amused by me. I can socially come off different, I've been called autistic before so yeah.
Another one during this outpatient treatment I went to after hospitalization (which also sucked, they seemed to want to put me on meds more than listen to me intelligently, also one of the art therapists there acted disparaging toward me, saying I was putting up a social mask, but maybe I don't trust people enough to want to connect? Other patients were calling me names and shit and she seemed to encourage it)
Anyway the therapist in the outpatient program was very bad at her job. Idk if she was new but she seemed to get upset easily and like she needed therapy herself. She seemed to look down at me for not connecting emotionally like others in the group and kept saying I need to work on my "interpersonal effectiveness skills" in a disparaging way. Then when the therapy was over I literally heard her talking with someone else in a room as I was walking in the lobby saying that I was a difficult patient, and she seemed like, angry. Like, you can't even wait til they leave to talk about a patient? Idk it's like she was mad I threatened her sense of competence as a therapist. I wasn't even mean to her I just didn't want to be there
 
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FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Just wanting some peace
Sep 24, 2020
38,920
I find it so awful how humans are so cruel and create so much suffering, it must be so tiring what you've been through, I hope that you eventually find the freedom you search for, best wishes.
 
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Ms.Starr

Ms.Starr

Member
Sep 10, 2022
48
"The kind that say there's help available, there's always hope! Two words: fuck you! I should mention that in addition to trying almost every medication available and not being helped, I also tried TMS and ketamine infusions with zero success."
Firstly, I would like to say I am sorry you have been through so much. Unfortunately, I can relate to what you are saying for obvious reasons. Sometimes there is no reason for hope. When you mentioned "The kind that say there's help available, there's always hope" reminded me of that man who made the video against the community, Trancula; whatever his name is. It wasn't important enough for me to remember.

Anyway, I nearly lost it when I watched the end of his video and he started talking like that. "Just call professionals.... don't go to the site" or his most annoying line about just smiling at people translating to hope. I wanted to throw my phone.

I was thinking, "Is this guy can't be serious!" I loved Rain's response and think it addressed his nonsense. It is as if Trancula (whatever his name is) has never struggled with his mental health. He slandered this site and the 25k members in more ways than one. As Rain said, many of us have been struggling for a long time. We have already tried "professionals".

The reality is we are all adults and this isn't our first rodeo. We have been here and done that... whatever "that" is... We didn't wake up one day, "be lured to the site", then develop mental health or medical issues. Some of us are "terminal".

Trancula said we were lured to the site. Umm, no! LMFAO! More LIKE we were wandering around in darkness with terminal conditions and this was our last haven of hope; even if "hope" meant our last stop. I found the site, I wasn't lured here. I was planning to cbt before I ever joined.

How we just connected on this topic is why this site is so amazing. I read your comment and I just started bawling. I had already been weeping all night when I decided to post. My therapist just broke up with me yesterday.

I know that feeling of being untouchable. Everyone gives up on you. You are not worth even their acknowledgment after awhile. It does something to your spirit when you keep opening up yourself to these people(professionals/therapist) then they dehumanize you. There is something degrading about it especially when they don't do it with compassion. You are not alone. The mental health industry has done this to me too.
 
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Ms.Starr

Ms.Starr

Member
Sep 10, 2022
48
You're not alone :(
I have a lot of bad therapist stories, you don't have to read this but I wanna get it out I suppose.
I know I can be difficult sometimes but my therapist seemed to sometimes laugh at me sometimes or sound more like a judgmental mother than a therapist.
One of them I dropped after two sessions because she couldn't even hide it in her face she was amused by me. I can socially come off different, I've been called autistic before so yeah.
Another one during this outpatient treatment I went to after hospitalization (which also sucked, they seemed to want to put me on meds more than listen to me intelligently, also one of the art therapists there acted disparaging toward me, saying I was putting up a social mask, but maybe I don't trust people enough to want to connect? Other patients were calling me names and shit and she seemed to encourage it)
Anyway the therapist in the outpatient program was very bad at her job. Idk if she was new but she seemed to get upset easily and like she needed therapy herself. She seemed to look down at me for not connecting emotionally like others in the group and kept saying I need to work on my "interpersonal effectiveness skills" in a disparaging way. Then when the therapy was over I literally heard her talking with someone else in a room as I was walking in the lobby saying that I was a difficult patient, and she seemed like, angry. Like, you can't even wait til they leave to talk about a patient? Idk it's like she was mad I threatened her sense of competence as a therapist. I wasn't even mean to her I just didn't want to be there
I read the entire thing. Thank you for sharing your story/experiences. Unfortunately, what you wrote about happens alot. These "professionals" aren't so professional. A lot of them can be bullies, mean spirited, and inappropriate. You didn't deserve what happened to you. I am sorry to hear these experiences are more common than people think. I appreciate you taking the time to comment. It really means a lot to me. Take care of yourself. Don't let them make you feel less than. You deserve kindness. I am on the Autism Spectrum too. People really don't understand us, the way we think, process stuff. They are usually very harsh with us. It is terrible.
I am so sorry. I know you must be exhausted but please don't give up your therapist search. Like someone said above modern mental health professionals suck. I had a therapist "break up" with me and I realized that was due to her ignorance and had nothing to do with me. It took me 3 years after that to find my current therapist who is awesome. I cycled through about 10 before finding my current one and would drop them after 1-2 sessions knowing they weren't going to be helpful. Again I know you're probably exhausted, but don't stop looking for someone who's the right fit for you. This is not a reflection on you whatsoever, it's a reflection of the ignorance and lack of education in the psych field.
I wasn't going to respond to this comment but then I changed my mind. I am done, finished, it is over. I will not put myself through this again; I am not a sadists. I do think it is a reflection of me. Please let me tell you why. These same therapist continue to see other patients but give up on me consistently. Some of these other patients are more challenging than my case and they still choose to axe me from services. I can't help but look at it as something must be intrinsically wrong with me as a person. I get this overwhelming feeling of dread that sinks in when this happens (another therapist drops me). The years are passing, I am growing colder, and older; still very much alone. No one stays with me. I am so easily let go. While I see other people's lives and they are surrounded by people who love them. They have had the same supportive therapist for many years. There has to be something "different" about me, not in a good way, that has led to the deterioration of the relationships in my life. Even if it is not me, or I haven't been at fault every time, nobody sees value in me as a human being. To be aware of this and to keep watching people so callously leave my life is devastating. I am not giving up on them, they gave up on me. At this point it is a toxic situation and unhealthy for me to keep doing this to myself.
As a psych major and someone who has a social worker stepmother I want to apologize for modern mental health professionals. Furthermore, as someone who has spent more than half their existence in therapy between multiple therapists, it's sad to say it's not uncommon for therapists to abandon their clients.

While I can't say exactly what the reason is for you particular therapist, a lot of the times it's due to a lack of foreseeable progress. A therapist who believes they are stuck feels incapable of assisting and cuts ties, despite the glaringly obvious negative consequences that has.

There's a lot of therapists, and too many of them seem to be problem solvers instead of healers. I don't really know what your situation is like, but it sounds like you really need someone there for you, and if so then it's nothing but despicable for your therapist to leave you.

There's a lot of suffering in this world, and it's disheartening that the people trained to fix it fail where they are needed. I'm of the belief that some situations are simply just hopeless. I really wish consensual euthanasia was legal, as everyone deserves a painless and peaceful way out. Society isn't ready to swallow that pill yet tho :P.

I hope your starvation goes okay, and if your intent is to follow through then I wish you nothing but strength. If not, maybe try the night-night method, as it's somewhat easy to obtain since you can shoplift the needed items out of most general stores.

Once again, I'm truly sorry. I know how little it really means coming from a stranger on the internet, but regardless I feel compelled. The world and humanity may have turned their backs on you, but just know that you have more soul than the vast majority. If people are so uncaring that they would abandon and discard you, then really they aren't worth much shit anyways

I wish you strength in your endeavors. May you find peace in whatever you do next. Take care soldier.
Wow! Amazing! Thank you for sharing. It was very thought provoking and informative. Ironically, he did seem frastrated I wasn't making progress fast enough for him. He was very much a problem solver when I just needed him to listen.

He can solve mental health conditions but he can be supportive to the person suffering. He became so cold and angry with me. He said, "I can't help you". It would have been great to know this before it got this far.

I asked him all the time for feedback. He always reassured me everything was fine. Then just pulled the rug from under me. I can tell it had been building up but he kept placating me. The feelings that arise from being abruptly abandoned are heart wrenching to experience for me. I wish someone would not leave.

Can you send me a personal email detailing the "night night" method? I have never heard of it and now I am curious. I have a modest income although I am homeless. I also have some savings. If you or anyone had method ideas I can purchase whatever is needed. The city I live in the rent and cost of living is extremely high. There are a lot of "working poor" and people being priced out of the state. The struggle is real.
 
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W

WantsToJumpAlready

Member
Jul 17, 2023
27
I read the entire thing. Thank you for sharing your story/experiences. Unfortunately, what you wrote about happens alot. These "professionals" aren't so professional. A lot of them can be bullies, mean spirited, and inappropriate. You didn't deserve what happened to you. I am sorry to hear these experiences are more common than people think. I appreciate you taking the time to comment. It really means a lot to me. Take care of yourself. Don't let them make you feel less than. You deserve kindness. I am on the Autism Spectrum too. People really don't understand us, the way we think, process stuff. They are usually very harsh with us. It is terrible.

I wasn't going to respond to this comment but then I changed my mind. I am done, finished, it is over. I will not put myself through this again; I am not a sadists. I do think it is a reflection of me. Please let me tell you why. These same therapist continue to see other patients but give up on me consistently. Some of these other patients are more challenging than my case and they still choose to axe me from services. I can't help but look at it as something must be intrinsically wrong with me as a person. I get this overwhelming feeling of dread that sinks in when this happens (another therapist drops me). The years are passing, I am growing colder, and older; still very much alone. No one stays with me. I am so easily let go. While I see other people's lives and they are surrounded by people who love them. They have had the same supportive therapist for many years. There has to be something "different" about me, not in a good way, that has led to the deterioration of the relationships in my life. Even if it is not me, or I haven't been at fault every time, nobody sees value in me as a human being. To be aware of this and to keep watching people so callously leave my life is devastating. I am not giving up on them, they gave up on me. At this point it is a toxic situation and unhealthy for me to keep doing this to myself.

Wow! Amazing! Thank you for sharing. It was very thought provoking and informative. Ironically, he did seem frastrated I wasn't making progress fast enough for him. He was very much a problem solver when I just needed him to listen.

He can solve mental health conditions but he can be supportive to the person suffering. He became so cold and angry with me. He said, "I can't help you". It would have been great to know this before it got this far.

I asked him all the time for feedback. He always reassured me everything was fine. Then just pulled the rug from under me. I can tell it had been building up but he kept placating me. The feelings that arise from being abruptly abandoned are heart wrenching to experience for me. I wish someone would not leave.

Can you send me a personal email detailing the "night night" method? I have never heard of it and now I am curious. I have a modest income although I am homeless. I also have some savings. If you or anyone had method ideas I can purchase whatever is needed. The city I live in the rent and cost of living is extremely high. There are a lot of "working poor" and people being priced out of the state. The struggle is real.
Hey - I'm really sorry my response wasn't helpful and thank you for taking the time to explain your perspective so I can understand better. Your response was really well written - I'm also autistic and your words just made me teary-eyed because I resonate heavily with what you just said about there something different about yourself and feeling like everyone around me could get help and I couldn't and that must mean that I'm the problem - and I know being autistic is why I struggled so long finding someone who could actually help me because the mental health care system has no clue know how to help people who think like we do. The lack of education in the psych field on autism is maddening and I completely understand you not wanting to put yourself in that position again. Again - so sorry my post wasn't helpful for you and thank you for chiming back with more of your thoughts. Take care <3
 
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Ms.Starr

Ms.Starr

Member
Sep 10, 2022
48
Hey - I'm really sorry my response wasn't helpful and thank you for taking the time to explain your perspective so I can understand better. Your response was really well written - I'm also autistic and your words just made me teary-eyed because I resonate heavily with what you just said about there something different about yourself and feeling like everyone around me could get help and I couldn't and that must mean that I'm the problem - and I know being autistic is why I struggled so long finding someone who could actually help me because the mental health care system has no clue know how to help people who think like we do. The lack of education in the psych field on autism is maddening and I completely understand you not wanting to put yourself in that position again. Again - so sorry my post wasn't helpful for you and thank you for chiming back with more of your thoughts. Take care <3
I would not classify it as unhelpful. I think the most important thing I received from your comments was the feeling that I am not alone. You took the time out of your day to leave an encouraging note. As of right now I don't foresee myself returning to therapy ever.

That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the intent behind why you posted. You are entitled to your opinion. Nothing is wrong with sharing what you did. It did give me pause for a few moments though. I think everyone has to do what is right for themselves.

For some people it may be to keep trying until they find the right fit. For others like myself I have reached a point where the amount of harm it has caused me outweighs any benefits I have received. Worse I think it has contributed to the mental health problem I already had when I went to meet with these people.

For my situation I think of it as an abusive relationship. I could go back and the person miraculously change however it is most likely going to be the same. Especially, since I don't exactly know what I have done to contribute to the relationships demise. If you have hope, relief, and a good therapist I am gent happy for you; happy you didn't give up.

Yeah, feeling like you are worthless is a horrible feeling. My heart feels so heavy. My body feels physically tired from and weak. I still don't know how to fully confront that reality; it is so painful.
 
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Holu

Holu

Hypomania go brrr
Apr 5, 2023
673
Starvation Day #2
:D. I'm assuming your drinking water. Regardless, thought I'd link this in case your unfamiliar with death by starvation. Death By Dignity Org on Starvation
Can you send me a personal email detailing the "night night" method? I have never heard of it and now I am curious. I have a modest income although I am homeless. I also have some savings. If you or anyone had method ideas I can purchase whatever is needed. The city I live in the rent and cost of living is extremely high. There are a lot of "working poor" and people being priced out of the state. The struggle is real.
Ah hypercapitalism. Pricing working people out of existence. Anyways, heres the thread for the Night-Night Method.
Wow! Amazing! Thank you for sharing. It was very thought provoking and informative. Ironically, he did seem frastrated I wasn't making progress fast enough for him. He was very much a problem solver when I just needed him to listen.

He can solve mental health conditions but he can be supportive to the person suffering. He became so cold and angry with me. He said, "I can't help you". It would have been great to know this before it got this far.

I asked him all the time for feedback. He always reassured me everything was fine. Then just pulled the rug from under me. I can tell it had been building up but he kept placating me. The feelings that arise from being abruptly abandoned are heart wrenching to experience for me. I wish someone would not leave.
Keep in mind, from what little information I have, I can't really give a great estimate on why your therapist abandoned you. Whilst it may be for the aforementioned reason, it's also possible that your therapist simply didn't like you or see you as a good match, and simply cut ties. A way you might be able to gauge between these two given possibilities is the amount of time / sessions spent with the therapist. Typically, therapists are anticipating for 15-20 total sessions (Google says 6-14 so maybe I've been told wrong but same idea), which means that should he have failed to complete 6 sessions with you it's much more likely he simply didn't like you. Either way, if this individual is literally working at a shelter then I'd hope that a disliking for you wasn't the reason, since it's not like there would be a differing option for residents to turn to.
For some people it may be to keep trying until they find the right fit. For others like myself I have reached a point where the amount of harm it has caused me outweighs any benefits I have received. Worse I think it has contributed to the mental health problem I already had when I went to meet with these people.

For my situation I think of it as an abusive relationship. I could go back and the person miraculously change however it is most likely going to be the same. Especially, since I don't exactly know what I have done to contribute to the relationships demise. If you have hope, relief, and a good therapist I am gent happy for you; happy you didn't give up.

On note of this, and I hate to ever take the stance of defending therapists on this forum since people will rip me to shreds, but it's necessary to mention a significant deviation when it comes to the effectiveness of therapy. You used the word hope, which is an excellent word/idea when it comes to therapy because the placebo of believing in your therapist actually does effect your overall mood. Similarly, it works as an anti-placebo(Nocebo), in which if you believe you will receive nothing from said therapist, then you in fact, will receive nothing. Unfortunately, this isn't something you can really reverse, which in all honesty is why I stopped going to therapy after 11 years.
Yeah, feeling like you are worthless is a horrible feeling. My heart feels so heavy. My body feels physically tired from and weak. I still don't know how to fully confront that reality; it is so painful.
Lastly, before I go try to sleep and fail miserably, I want to say I'm really really sorry for the situation your in. Again, I know it really means nothing, and doesn't really help, but reading your post makes my heart sink for you.

In the end, we know ourselves best. You do what you have to do, and we as a community will be here to support you. Take care, hope for a kind starvation day 2. Feel free to message me if you need something or just need to vent.
 
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Sweet Tart

Sweet Tart

Arcanist
May 10, 2023
452
Your therapist ended therapy and didn't refer you to a colleagues? Their supervisor should be handling this situation. What your therapist did sounds completely inappropriate. If they felt they could not help you, it is their responsibility to connect you with another therapist (or a higher level of care, if needed).

Idk if you are able to speak to a worker there about getting the supervisor involved, but there's a chance someone overseeing the therapist could help (even the Shelter Director).

Alternately, it could help to reach out and complain to the Department of Homeless Services where you live.

I'm sorry for offering unsolicited advice. I hate seeing service providers behave irresponsibility toward people in need. So sorry you are dealing with this. I think you are worthy of more than basic decency. If you want to vent or any help with ideas on how to remedy the situation, please don't hesitate to DM me.
 
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lachrymost

lachrymost

finger on the eject button
Oct 4, 2022
344
Maybe Mr. T-Cruel should make another video--this time censuring mental health professionals who alienate their clients and abandon them. He can apologize for saying they can do no wrong while he's at it.
 
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Ms.Starr

Ms.Starr

Member
Sep 10, 2022
48
Starving for peace...

I assume this is going to take at least 3-6 months to complete. Today I don't feel any major changes in my body. It is, after all, only day three. I don't anticipate any noticable health changes until the end of the first month going into the second month. I am glad I have the company of this community while I go through the changes this will bring. I will keep everyone updated.

This may take a while for me because I am a big person 5'11-6'0 tall. I am not going to give up though because in the absence of hope the hunger will fill the void. I don't even feel hungry yet though which is strange.

I think the depression/chronic stress is causing my body to be in panic/survival mode. I have CPTSD (server PTSD). My body doesn't even know what normal is after all these years.

I assume at some point hunger will kick in. I despair of life so much that in some way, beyond my way of understanding, I think my body has already started to give up too. Why don't I feel hungry yet? It has been three days.The depression is feeding my body mega doses of hormones I guess maybe interrupting or preventing feelings of hunger. Hey, I don't know. I am not an expert at starving to ☠️...

I wonder how many days it will take to kiss the sky? It is not going to come soon enough though; I know that much.


I am going to start a picture diary starting today. It will consist of one picture a day of my face and body to document the changes that happen. Towards the end I will create a Youtube video with a college of all the photos in quick succession.

Then I will post a goodbye thread on here when I can feel the end nearing with a link to the video. That is far away from now but just wanted to share my idea. I have a time set for how many days, minutes and seconds I haven't eaten. Refer to screenshot. The app is for sobriety but I am using it for this.

Lets give it a name...I gotta think of one . Any ideas, folks! Maybe Project ...(you fill in the blank).

I am an amateur videographer. I will make this into an mini documentary of some sort. Maybe people will believe we want to because it is our human right. Maybe it will help people in my country rethink the ban on Euthanasia for people like me when they watch what I am about to endure to the end. I hope the video goes viral and is downloaded and shared before they eventually remove it from multiple platforms. Maybe it will change nothing but I am still going to make it.

I am going to mention consent (alot) since people who attack this community spread harmful narratives that we are pressured or prodded to do this when the reality is some of our lives are nightmares; which the site is not liable. I am going to briefly mention how the mental health industry is harmful and toxic

It is not going to be something major or award winning. It will however be my last project and will serve a purpose greater than my life; which has been pretty useless.
 

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