Discussion Money is made up construct

[Darkover]

i don't think people fully understand how much 1 billion is. if your salary was 100k w no tax it would take you 10 years to become a millionaire but 10,000 years to reach a billion. it is unethical for one person to be hoarding this much money when others cannot eat.

 

[Pluto]

 

[Praestat_Mori]

I think the typical Billionaire doesn't actually have 1 Billion in cash on their bank account or even printed in bank notes. Billionaires have their cash in assets that earns them money and the crowd (the stock traders and investors) value their assets at a billion or several billions.

 

[Darkover]

I think the typical Billionaire doesn't actually have 1 Billion in cash on their bank account or even printed in bank notes. Billionaires have their cash in assets that earns them money and the crowd (the stock traders and investors) value their assets at a billion or several billions.

Their wealth is often based on the perceived market value of their shares or assets.

This value fluctuates depending on the market's faith in the future of those assets.

Example: If Elon Musk tweets something controversial, Tesla's stock can drop, and his net worth can shift by billions in a single day—without a dollar actually changing hands.

Even if it's not cash, this wealth still gives them immense power:

They can borrow against their assets at ultra-low interest rates.

They can fund political campaigns, buy media companies, influence regulation.

They can avoid taxes by not selling their stocks (no sale = no capital gains tax).

 

[Praestat_Mori]

There's a theory out there: If all debt disappears money will inevitably disappear.

I don't know anything about the scientific approach and I have no knowledge about economy (it's really complex!) but money is a debt-business and was invented as a debt business by humans.

The one who has the power and legit right to print money will always win bc they give out the money for interest and want it to be paid back at some point in time but interest is income you don't need to have it paid back.

Banks usually lend each $ someone deposits 7-8x for interest and that calculation works for them even is some can't pay back their loans/mortgages.

 

[Darkover]

There's a theory out there: If all debt disappears money will inevitably disappear.

I don't know anything about the scientific approach and I have no knowledge about economy (it's really complex!) but money is a debt-business and was invented as a debt business by humans.

The one who has the power and legit right to print money will always win bc they give out the money for interest and want it to be paid back at some point in time but interest is income you don't need to have it paid back.

Bank usually lend each $ someone deposits 7-8x for interest and that calculation works for them even is some can't pay back their loans/mortgages.

Most modern money is created through debt. Here's how:

You take out a loan from a bank.

The bank doesn't give you money it already has—it creates it digitally.

That money is newly created and added to the money supply.

When you repay the loan, the principal disappears, but the interest remains—which you have to earn from somewhere else in the economy.

So if all debt vanished, most of our money supply would vanish too. That's not a fringe theory—it's recognized in mainstream economic models, especially under fractional reserve banking.


If every loan must be paid back with more than was borrowed (because of interest), but the only money in the system is what was borrowed, where does the money to pay interest come from?

Answer:
It comes from more debt. The system requires continual lending and borrowing to stay afloat. That's why economies pursue growth endlessly—without it, defaults and recessions happen.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Their wealth is often based on the perceived market value of their shares or assets.

This value fluctuates depending on the market's faith in the future of those assets.

Example: If Elon Musk tweets something controversial, Tesla's stock can drop, and his net worth can shift by billions in a single day—without a dollar actually changing hands.

Even if it's not cash, this wealth still gives them immense power:

They can borrow against their assets at ultra-low interest rates.

They can fund political campaigns, buy media companies, influence regulation.

They can avoid taxes by not selling their stocks (no sale = no capital gains tax).

To say that in simple words:

Money is the fuel of our society - whether we like that or not. We don't have to be billionaires bc not all of us want to have that much influence but again money is the fuel in this world that is the major part of whether a life is good or bad - no doubt about that!

Most modern money is created through debt. Here's how:

You take out a loan from a bank.

The bank doesn't give you money it already has—it creates it digitally.

That money is newly created and added to the money supply.

When you repay the loan, the principal disappears, but the interest remains—which you have to earn from somewhere else in the economy.

So if all debt vanished, most of our money supply would vanish too. That's not a fringe theory—it's recognized in mainstream economic models, especially under fractional reserve banking.


If every loan must be paid back with more than was borrowed (because of interest), but the only money in the system is what was borrowed, where does the money to pay interest come from?

Answer:
It comes from more debt. The system requires continual lending and borrowing to stay afloat. That's why economies pursue growth endlessly—without it, defaults and recessions happen.

That was what I wanted to say!

 

[Darkover]

To say that in simple words:

Money is the fuel of our society - whether we like that or not. We don't have to be billionaires bc not all of us want to have that much influence but again money is the fuel in this world that is the major part of whether a life is good or bad - no doubt about that!

being poor is the reason i have a brain injury i left my dads house at aged 23 straight into shared accommodation the housing in the uk is absolutely shithole quality because i was poor and had nowhere to live and had to live in shared accommodation and you can't play music aloud plus your not allowed anyone to sleep over i was in shared accommodation since 2009 until 2019

 

[Praestat_Mori]

being poor is the reason i have a brain injury i left my dads house at aged 23 straight into shared accommodation the housing in the uk is absolutely shithole quality because i was poor and had nowhere to live and had to live in shared accommodation and you can't play music aloud plus your not allowed anyone to sleep over i was in shared accommodation since 2009 until 2019

Although money can't buy everything - specifically not health, love, true friends and the like - money is the key to a basically good life and health from the start.

I would assume that shared housing and related facilities are very similar everywhere not only limited to the UK. It's pretty much impossible to break out of this and the older we are the more difficult it is.

 

[Darkover]

Although money can't buy everything - specifically not health, love, true friends and the like - money is the key to a basically good life and health from the start.

I would assume that shared housing and related facilities are very similar everywhere not only limited to the UK. It's pretty much impossible to break out of this and the older we are the more difficult it is.

Money doesn't guarantee love, trust, or fulfillment, but it absolutely does provide the foundation for a life with dignity, health, and opportunities. Without it, even the most basic forms of safety and comfort like stable housing, rest, space to heal, privacy become privileges instead of rights. that baseline matters so much more than people realize, especially if they've never had to go without it.

And yes, shared housing in many parts of the world not just the UK often means poor maintenance, zero autonomy, and being treated like a problem instead of a person. It's a setup that keeps people stuck, worn down, and isolated. Add to that the mental toll of years without privacy or control, and it becomes harder to work, harder to heal, harder to even hope.

 

[supremacyofdeath]

I think the typical Billionaire doesn't actually have 1 Billion in cash on their bank account or even printed in bank notes. Billionaires have their cash in assets that earns them money and the crowd (the stock traders and investors) value their assets at a billion or several billions.

This is exactly what imaginary money would say

 

[Forever Sleep]

It is bizarre to think about. I suspect initially- it made more sense. When people didn't have items or services they wanted to trade- maybe they didn't want 3 bags of potatoes in exchange for 1 chicken- it would make sense to have an object that signifies a value to be traded. I guess what earnt that coin or what it could buy continually changed as to what was in demand.

Now though, I'm guessing money is largely a figure on a screen. Do you suppose there even exists enough physical representation of it? Are there the correct amount of currency notes, gold bars, whatever else to match up to those figures on screens? I doubt it. Which makes the whole idea really weird really. Like a kind of fiction.

 

[Darkover]

It is bizarre to think about. I suspect initially- it made more sense. When people didn't have items or services they wanted to trade- maybe they didn't want 3 bags of potatoes in exchange for 1 chicken- it would make sense to have an object that signifies a value to be traded. I guess what earnt that coin or what it could buy continually changed as to what was in demand.

Now though, I'm guessing money is largely a figure on a screen. Do you suppose there even exists enough physical representation of it? Are there the correct amount of currency notes, gold bars, whatever else to match up to those figures on screens? I doubt it. Which makes the whole idea really weird really. Like a kind of fiction.

People traded things directly (barter), but it was messy: what if you had eggs and needed shoes, but the shoemaker didn't want eggs?

So people moved to commodities (like salt, shells, or gold) as shared representations of value.

Eventually, coins and later paper money were used as IOUs backed by something tangible—often gold or silver.

You could redeem your note or coin for real stuff.

Trust was rooted in the metal or the government's promise.

About 92–97% of money exists only as numbers on screens.

It's not backed by gold or anything physical.

It's called fiat money, meaning it has value because governments say so and people believe it does.

 

[Forever Sleep]

About 92–97% of money exists only as numbers on screens.

It's not backed by gold or anything physical.

It's called fiat money, meaning it has value because governments say so and people believe it does.

That's so weird though- right? I'm glad I don't work for the treasury. I'm so bad with typo's. I absolutely would be mistakingly adding numbers to totals here and there.

I don't understand economics though. I once asked my Dad why countries who were short of money didn't just print more. But yeah- it f*cks with the value I think.

 

[Darkover]

That's so weird though- right? I'm glad I don't work for the treasury. I'm so bad with typo's. I absolutely would be mistakingly adding numbers to totals here and there.

I don't understand economics though. I once asked my Dad why countries who were short of money didn't just print more. But yeah- it f*cks with the value I think.

Debasing currency means reducing its value, typically by diminishing the amount of precious metal (like gold or silver) in coins or by inflating the money supply. This can be done by mixing less valuable metals with precious metals, reducing the purity of the metal used, or printing more money than is supported by the available resources.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Now though, I'm guessing money is largely a figure on a screen. Do you suppose there even exists enough physical representation of it? Are there the correct amount of currency notes, gold bars, whatever else to match up to those figures on screens? I doubt it. Which makes the whole idea really weird really. Like a kind of fiction.

The "gold-standard" was lifted around the time of WWI by the US-FED - money as we use and know it today isn't backed by anything other than people believing in its "value".

There's also the "debt-discussion" - the reality is and it applies specifically to the USD (and all countries who have a strong currency compared to the rest of the world - they can make an infinite amount of debt as long as the people (and the world) believe in the specific currency!

I don't understand economics though. I once asked my Dad why countries who were short of money didn't just print more. But yeah- it f*cks with the value I think.

Countries are short of money bc they have debts in USD and not their own currency!

 

[Apathy79]

Something I've been thinking about today purely as a hypothetical: A genie offers you $1M, $10M, $100M, or $1B, which do you take?

I think the default assumption is everyone would take the $1B right? But I dunno it feels like a huge amount of responsibility, guilt, and a target on your back to me. And for what? What is $1B really worth to me vs $10M? It's 100x more sure but do I really want to own private jets, 20 houses, 100s of cars, islands, football teams, etc.? Do I really want to start another charity that will end up the same as every rich person charity ever (some scam)? I think there's a responsibility that comes with it that I wouldn't want. And $100M is just a lesser degree of that. I think $10M buys security for life for me and any family I decide to share it with, without all those added things I don't want. I'd probably take that in preference to the $1B. Despite that violating every economic law ever created.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

There were several "financial crisis" in the past decades - the last one during COVID but there is so much more money floating around worldwide and even though people struggled people had it so much better than the people suffering after the 1929 crash - governments (central banks) just didn't hand out enough money back then.

Even though poverty is still a thing - if there wasn't all that money floating around how could 8 billion humans share an amount of money that wasn't "printed" when the whole world population was only 200 million or so around the era of the late Roman Empire?

If there was only that amount of money in circulation like back then poverty would be so much worse!

 

[Holu]

There were several "financial crisis" in the past decades - the last one during COVID but there is so much more money floating around worldwide and even though people struggled people had it so much better than the people suffering after the 1929 crash - governments (central banks) just didn't hand out enough money back then.

Even though poverty is still a thing - if there wasn't all that money floating around how could 8 billion humans share an amount of money that wasn't "printed" when the whole world population was only 200 million or so around the era of the late Roman Empire?

If there was only that amount of money in circulation like back then poverty would be so much worse!

Quality of life has improved for sure since 1929. That much is impossible to argue with. However, it might very well decrease dramatically given the massive tariff with China and the fact that apparently after the 90 days are up the tariffs on the rest of the world are going back. Through exports with China, many countries have been able to slow real wage increases because the price of goods actually decreased(accounting for inflation). Whereas, the whole non tradable sector has massively increased in cost, since these aren't able to be supplemented really, which is why things like the housing market, healthcare, and education have all risen while the cost of say a TV has decreased(accounting for inflation).

Also, I think it's kinda unfair to assume we aren't going to see a repeat of the 1929 crash lol. Time will tell but atm it's kinda a repeat of history.

Excessive speculation? Check
Arguably "bloated" market? Check
Increased deregulation? Check
Agricultural decline? Check
And tariffs to tie everything off? Check

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Something I've been thinking about today purely as a hypothetical: A genie offers you $1M, $10M, $100M, or $1B, which do you take?

I think the default assumption is everyone would take the $1B right? But I dunno it feels like a huge amount of responsibility, guilt, and a target on your back to me. And for what? What is $1B really worth to me vs $10M? It's 100x more sure but do I really want to own private jets, 20 houses, 100s of cars, islands, football teams, etc.? Do I really want to start another charity that will end up the same as every rich person charity ever (some scam)? I think there's a responsibility that comes with it that I wouldn't want. And $100M is just a lesser degree of that. I think $10M buys security for life for me and any family I decide to share it with, without all those added things I don't want. I'd probably take that in preference to the $1B. Despite that violating every economic law ever created.

It's not that easy. 10 Million is the magic amount that usually is the key to permanent financial freedom even if you lose 70-80% in a financial crash. There's no reason to feel guilty about having access to that amount of money but it's impossible that each and every human being can have that amount of money - it's like if there were 22 balls in a soccer match - noting would happen!

I would opt for the 10M $ bc this amount of money will guarantee you a secure passive income and growth over time. Even if your not living in the "1st world" the magic 1 million 5 million and 10 million of a local currency after the keys to financial freedom.

That's how "money" works it depends on maths and maths (physics) are the same throughout the universe.

Quality of life has improved for sure since 1929. That much is impossible to argue with. However, it might very well decrease dramatically given the massive tariff with China and the fact that apparently after the 90 days are up the tariffs on the rest of the world are going back. Through exports with China, many countries have been able to slow real wage increases because the price of goods actually decreased(accounting for inflation). Whereas, the whole non tradable sector has massively increased in cost, since these aren't able to be supplemented really, which is why things like the housing market, healthcare, and education have all risen while the cost of say a TV has decreased(accounting for inflation).

Also, I think it's kinda unfair to assume we aren't going to see a repeat of the 1929 crash lol. Time will tell but atm it's kinda a repeat of history.

Excessive speculation? Check
Arguably "bloated" market? Check
Increased deregulation? Check
Agricultural decline? Check
And tariffs to tie everything off? Check

You're right!

Honestly, the world need a big crash and a reset and that will open the chances for a lot of people at almost equal chances - but ultimately it will end up in the same manner as this money system did.

Economy is complex it's not B&W and ofc not as easy as that.

More printed money can still "fix" the issues in the system imo but the true fact is nature would provide everything for free what we humans need to live - but we're too many and we could never ever live as a unity with nature again - but that's sth different to be discussed.

 

[GhostInTheMachine]

You may like this video

Money is indeed nothing more than an enumeration of value created to keep track of debt, so it makes sense that pretty much every modern economy has been founded on the principle of taking on and then paying off debts. This is why billionaires are so focused on their stocks because a high net worth mean they can freely take on loans and have them paid off with other loans. Essentially, being rich is a self-Ponzi scheme that's just kicking the can of debt down the road and riding on such a high net worth that eventually you die before you have to pay it all back, or you managed to 0 out your debts by playing the loan lottery.

 

[Holu]

It's not that easy. 10 Million is the magic amount that usually is the key to permanent financial freedom even if you lose 70-80% in a financial crash. There's no reason to feel guilty about having access to that amount of money but it's impossible that each and every human being can have that amount of money - it's like if there were 22 balls in a soccer match - noting would happen!

I would opt for the 10M $ bc this amount of money will guarantee you a secure passive income and growth over time. Even if your not living in the "1st world" the magic 1 million 5 million and 10 million of a local currency after the keys to financial freedom.

That's how "money" works it depends on maths and maths (physics) are the same throughout the universe.


You're right!

Honestly, the world need a big crash and a reset and that will open the chances for a lot of people at almost equal chances - but ultimately it will end up in the same manner as this money system did.

Economy is complex it's not B&W and ofc not as easy as that.

More printed money can still "fix" the issues in the system imo but the true fact is nature would provide everything for free what we humans need to live - but we're too many and we could never ever live as a unity with nature again - but that's sth different to be discussed.

I disagree the world needs a big crash, but that's my personal opinion. I don't really see any upsides to crashes, because every time a crash happens wealth just pools more at the top. A reset, as in a true reset, would require everyone to lose their money and start from 0 or the same amount.

Even if you agree with trump and his policies, the reality is that if he causes a crash, the only people who benefit are the 1%, because they will do exactly what they did in 2008. The very wealthy don't just sit back during recessions, they exploit them. They wait for lower prices, buy up all the shit cheaper, then with their newfound mass control they wait to sell higher.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

I disagree the world needs a big crash, but that's my personal opinion. I don't really see any upsides to crashes, because every time a crash happens wealth just pools more at the top. A reset, as in a true reset, would require everyone to lose their money and start from 0 or the same amount.

Even if you agree with trump and his policies, the reality is that if he causes a crash, the only people who benefit are the 1%, because they will do exactly what they did in 2008. The very wealthy don't just sit back during recessions, they exploit them. They wait for lower prices, buy up all the shit cheaper, then with their newfound mass control they wait to sell higher.

I think "crash" wasn't well-worded.

I meant a real reset, slow down of everything like it may be after WW3 that even destroys the US (maybe it is fought totally on US territory) instead of central Europe, unlike WWI and WWII.

 

[Holu]

I think "crash" wasn't well-worded.

I meant a real reset, slow down of everything like it may be after WW3 that even destroys the US (maybe it is fought totally on US territory) instead of central Europe, unlike WWI and WWII.

Tbh, I'm somewhat down with WW3 resetting everything lol. If the timeline goes as follows…

Trump pisses off the world and isolates us entirely
Trump realizes we don't have the natural resources to fucking fuel ourselves without trade
Trump tries to take land from Canada, Panama, Greenland, or where ever he has his eyes in
The world invokes article 5 and thus we enter into war with the world
Europe ideally wins, and the U.S. is no more, but each state becomes its own country

I'd be fine with that… if I could somehow look past all the fucking suffering that would cause. I think as is, the better possibility is just that the U.S. gets its shit together, and stops allowing its citizens to be monetarily abused and assaulted by the top .01%

 

[GhostInTheMachine]

At the risk of sounding evil, those who voted for Trump deserve the suffering they will inevitably bring on themselves. It's unfortunate the rest of us have to suffer with them because of their ignorance. Ideally, i nsuch a doomsday scenario the US balkanizes and we have multiple confederations of states, of which most of the blue states will unite and leave the red state to wallow in their own filth.

 

[getoutgirl]

Yup

I always think of this website, mind boggling stuff

What Does One Billion Dollars Look Like?

ooh this one was better even https://eattherichtextformat.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/

 

[Griever]

Money doesn't make you happy in the long run, but only in the short term and I wish I still had money, but I just order too much online

 

[LittleMagician]

i don't think people fully understand how much 1 billion is. if your salary was 100k w no tax it would take you 10 years to become a millionaire but 10,000 years to reach a billion. it is unethical for one person to be hoarding this much money when others cannot eat.

Okay Mr communist, maybe if we keep campaigning Elon Musk will be so kind and gift us all ten grand

 

[_pop_Mongo]

Even millionaires have too much in my opinion. Every time I have the "if I win the lottery" my spending caps out around the 10 million mark after I've paid off all mine and my families debt and bought us all houses before I hit a point of "I guess just start a game development company and fund every indie project regardless of profit until we run out of money" how do you spend $50million without eventually just giving it away somehow?

You horde it.

Eat them. Drag them down into the pit and devour them whole.

 

[cowboypants]

I was thinking of making a post like it. I don't understand what makes such people hold so much money over everyone else probably because humans have always been taking advantage of the lesser for the millennia