TAW122
Emissary of the right to die.
- Aug 30, 2018
- 6,980
Introduction and defining the term 'confidentiality':
Even though in the past I wrote about the topic of confidentiality and had various threads (here from 2023 as well as another one too) related to them (mostly pertaining to psychotherapy and the topic of death, CTB, harm, and similar taboos), this thread is a megathread as it takes a more broad perspective across multiple domains and explains the harm of the lack of confidentiality, not just in those specific areas, but in general.
To start things off, first, what is "confidentiality?" Confidentiality is the state and construct in which one's information (good or bad) is kept private, secret from unwanted or unauthorized parties. Sure, confidentiality exists in many fields and domains, however, very RARELY is there absolute confidentiality (especially when it comes to CTB ideations, planning, and such). Almost nowhere in today's present society is there ever an entity (maybe the RCC but even then with modern world and how the world is, that may not be 100% true) that offers such a thing, and there are always limits to the state of confidentiality, which means the person saying the wrong thing immediately breaks that state of confidentiality and the person's secrets and information is then leaked to other entities or parties.
Also note: This megathread is NOT about workarounds or having to censor and tip-toe (walk on eggshells, or what not) just to get around the taboo subjects as that is NOT a solution. Yes, while that is a valid option, the points described in the megathread still holds true. Additionally, having to "work around, get around, or circumvent something" (along with the risk of failure) is not really a viable solution overall as one is not really free if they have to skirt regulations just to get things done (more details later).
With that said, I will proceed with this megathread with regards to 'true' confidentiality in more contexts outside of CTB ideation (though some points may still use CTB ideation as an example due to overlapping points).
An example of confidentiality: Confessions in the ancient Roman Catholic Church:
Disclaimer: I want to be clear that I do NOT believe in God (I am an atheist), do NOT condone, endorse, support any of tenets and values, nor am I affiliated with the RCC in any way. I am only merely giving this example for educational and informative purposes only.
In the past, especially in the days of the RCC (and even up until modern days), there was a concept called confession that means if a priest did something, no matter how bad and no matter what they said, they were excused and their confession was 100% sealed (unbreakable and 100% kept confidential). Once again, I don't condone nor endorse any of the illicit and immoral, unethical behaviors that the bad actors did at all. I am merely just explaining the concept and how it would have benefit marginalized people as a whole, as the lack of 'true' safe spaces we face in present day reality. In present day's reality, there is no such thing as 100% true confidentiality and privacy, there are always limits to it, and especially in the context of CTB or risk assessment. This means that if any entity, institution, or third party believes (whether it's true or not) that there is a danger to others or oneself (moreso when it comes to CTB), they will be safer than sorry, which entails reporting said person's intentions to authorities by breaking confidentiality. This takes away any real safe space for those who wish to go on their own terms.
Also in one of Marc Antinatalist's videos (the video about "confidentiality"), he also mentions about the RCC having such practices (he was a former Christian before becoming an misotheist) and while he stated that he was on the path towards to becoming a priest himself (before he changed course and went to become misotheistic) he did understand and appreciate that concept as he believes that it would have benefited society as a whole. He states that since there is a lack of [true] confidentiality, there are people who have a lot of burdens and issues that are bottled up and cannot release them, leading to the person spiraling or getting worse over time. Therefore, if this same or similar concept was extended to society, especially for people with CTB ideation and such, it would certainly guarantee to reduce the amount of CTB ideation, CTB attempts (even those that result in failure), and generally less persecution and harassment of those with CTB ideation.
Other examples through marginalized groups:
Throughout history, there has been marginalized groups throughout them, which at points through even the 20th century and into the 21st century, there are people who are in the fringes of society, minorities, LGBTQ people, women, and more. One of such examples in modern day (until the early 2010's or so) is where LGBTQ people or those who identify as such lack societal acceptance and lack true confidentiality for their identity and often have to remain in closets for perhaps decades and the undue burden and fear of social consequences (before society accepted them to be valid and ostracized those who are homophobic). It wasn't until society has socially tolerated and generally accepted LGBTQ community as legitimate and also socially ostracized those who were homophobic that the LGBTQ had a safe community. In present day, they now have more spaces than they did from earlier times in the last century or turn of the century. When discussing their plights and among those closed groups, they found camaraderie and acceptance within their safe place and since they have 100% confidentiality as well as societal's shielding (in general, but not all since there are still quite a lot of bigots and homophobic actors even out there), they managed to thrive and have established their vision as well as their stance compared to decades ago.
A good example of this is when it comes to workers' rights and nowadays with many legal protections for those who are informants and whistle-blowers. They are legally protected from retaliation, and even if true confidentiality wasn't truly there, there are many protections in place where the whistle-blower will not be punished and is not only legally protected but also socially sanctioned from ostracization (not always, but generally true). When various whistle-blowers come forth to speak out against bad policies, bad actors, and bad (sometimes even dangerous) practices, they would be able to do so without fear of their livelihood, their lives, and other unwanted consequences (legally, financially, socially, etc.).
The same could be said for people with various forms of disability (both physical and psychological). Throughout history, there were groups that deviated from society (depending on the time and the society in which said individual(s) reside in), and they were treated poorly. They didn't have safe spaces or organizations that represented them and more often than not were discriminated against and their secrets were weaponized against them either through ostracization, violation of their wishes, and even harassment and bullying. However, throughout history and time when more and more awareness are brought up and programs allowed confidentiality and a real safe space for them, it allowed them to have a sense of community, unity, and peace knowing that their secrets were safe and at least accepted, not just repressed and bottled down. There are many more examples of various marginalized groups due to lack of confidentiality for their plight, but later tolerated and perhaps even thrived as a result of having those true safe spaces, but these are prominent ones.
Using SaSu (our community here) as a case example:
This megathread would feel like it's missing a major point without the mention of our own community, SaSu. SaSu originated from Reddit way back in the mid 2010's or so, all the way up until Reddit shut it down (censorship) and as a result, other subreddit sprung up to take it's place, but more importantly, this platform SaSu, independent of Reddit showed up. Founded in March 2018, SaSu was considered a safe space, but even moreso, better than almost all other existing pro-choice platforms that allowed free speech, no censorship of the topic (about CTB, death, RTD, and similar topics), and more importantly the discussion of methods (which most other pro-choice spaces do NOT offer, mostly for liability reasons). Since there is true confidentiality and no censorship of CTB discussion and methods, most people here are able to express their real ideation and thoughts of CTB without fear of persecution and other consequences that they otherwise would have faced in other settings and spaces. What and where is true confidentiality in SaSu? When SaSu was founded that was one of the core principles that it was founded on and the original founders really upheld such values, which has allowed SaSu to thrive as a safe space of true confidentiality when it comes to discussion of CTB ideation, methods, CTB planning, and other similar socially taboo topics.
So as a result of this platform existing, it actually benefited society in a way that many prohibitionists, preventionists, pro-lifers will never admit nor acknowledge. It prevented people who otherwise may act out impulsively (more often than not, failing their attempt and being in a worse situation than before the attempt), and also offered a place where 'true' confidentiality when it comes to topics of CTB, RTD, CTB ideation, CTB planning, and CTB methods discussion. This allows people who feel trapped or otherwise frustrated with sentience to be able to truly express themselves in ways that they would otherwise not be able to in other spaces or even in real life. Therefore, there are likely fewer people who would attempt CTB or even think about CTB as much when they have an outlet to safely express their true thoughts without fear of being persecuted, sent away, detained, locked up against their will, or other unwanted repercussions. In a sense, SaSu is a way to prevent (impulsive) CTBs and also help those who may be considering brutal means to reconsider or at least choose a less disruptive means to exit (perhaps even considering more peaceful methods such as SN, inert gases, and/or other means, rather than being solely limited to brutal means of exit).
How true confidentiality may benefit society:
There are various ways in which true confidentiality may benefit society especially when there are would be people who could unload their burdens and perhaps some of the worst atrocities in the human world could still be prevented (or higher chance of being prevented) if the would be bad actors could confess their ideas without fear of consequences and not be treated as a criminal (before they commit a real crime). Of course, I will state that true confidentiality may NOT always stop ALL bad actors and sure, there will always be some bad actors, but at least there may be fewer bad actors and fewer CTBs if people know they can speak their most sensitive and vulnerable thoughts, information with 100% guaranty of confidentiality with NO limits or exceptions. While some may still CTB regardless, it will certainly prevent those who would have CTB'd because nobody heard their true thoughts out because of the fear of repercussions (being sent away, locked up, detained against their will, etc.).
Back to the point about bad actors though, not just those who are only a danger to themselves. If those bad actors was able to voice their plans, but assuming that would be perpetrators of mass violence was able to vent and express their things safely, without repercussions (legal, social, etc. as they have yet to commit any real crime by then, or even if the law changed to exempt them from being legally punished before they committed the act), then perhaps they might just be talked down or abandon their carnage instead. This would be an ideal win-win situation as both society is spared carnage, but also the would be prepetrator would be able to express themselves freely without repercussions and at least have their voice heard, acknowledged. Again, while this is theoretical and whether it is practical or not is another issue altogether; but for now, I'm merely bringing the concept in theory as food for thought.
So in current day society as it stands, those who are deemed a threat to themselves or even others are already treated as criminals and terrible individual(s) before they even act, and this preemptive judgment as well as punishment (before the act) only drives those suffering further underground. Even assuming that those would be perpetrators hide well (or as well as they could), they bottle up their resentment further (not even revealing to people what they are really planning) resulting in one snap carnage that devastates innocent people and other unwilling participants. That results in a lose-lose situation, not just for the then perpetrator, but also for all the innocent people. Even worse yet, there would then be a call for further scrutiny, tighter scoping and profiling of potential red flags, and other erosions of privacy, creating a continuous paternalistic and tyrannical feedback loop, but I digress…
Conclusion:
As it stands in present day society, due to the lack of [true] confidentiality, many people who otherwise might not have CTB, acted out, or did things end up suppressing their own angst thoughts, and other burdens, thus one day potentially exploding and lashing out. Thus is the consequence of a society that doesn't honor true confidentiality and privacy with more and more draconian, invasive, paternalistic, and tyrannical policy being pushed throughout the passage of time. Such consequences then result in people lamenting the outcome (carnage, horror, suffering, and damages to unwilling participants), then virtue signaling (most people do) and then asking for more security and protection, further fueling the paternalistic and invasive practices that are present in modern day. If we as a society want to actually improve things, then there must be safe spaces where 'true' confidentiality exists in order for those who otherwise would not speak for fear of punishment, repercussions, and unwanted consequences to be able to speak freely.
Even though in the past I wrote about the topic of confidentiality and had various threads (here from 2023 as well as another one too) related to them (mostly pertaining to psychotherapy and the topic of death, CTB, harm, and similar taboos), this thread is a megathread as it takes a more broad perspective across multiple domains and explains the harm of the lack of confidentiality, not just in those specific areas, but in general.
To start things off, first, what is "confidentiality?" Confidentiality is the state and construct in which one's information (good or bad) is kept private, secret from unwanted or unauthorized parties. Sure, confidentiality exists in many fields and domains, however, very RARELY is there absolute confidentiality (especially when it comes to CTB ideations, planning, and such). Almost nowhere in today's present society is there ever an entity (maybe the RCC but even then with modern world and how the world is, that may not be 100% true) that offers such a thing, and there are always limits to the state of confidentiality, which means the person saying the wrong thing immediately breaks that state of confidentiality and the person's secrets and information is then leaked to other entities or parties.
Also note: This megathread is NOT about workarounds or having to censor and tip-toe (walk on eggshells, or what not) just to get around the taboo subjects as that is NOT a solution. Yes, while that is a valid option, the points described in the megathread still holds true. Additionally, having to "work around, get around, or circumvent something" (along with the risk of failure) is not really a viable solution overall as one is not really free if they have to skirt regulations just to get things done (more details later).
With that said, I will proceed with this megathread with regards to 'true' confidentiality in more contexts outside of CTB ideation (though some points may still use CTB ideation as an example due to overlapping points).
An example of confidentiality: Confessions in the ancient Roman Catholic Church:
Disclaimer: I want to be clear that I do NOT believe in God (I am an atheist), do NOT condone, endorse, support any of tenets and values, nor am I affiliated with the RCC in any way. I am only merely giving this example for educational and informative purposes only.
In the past, especially in the days of the RCC (and even up until modern days), there was a concept called confession that means if a priest did something, no matter how bad and no matter what they said, they were excused and their confession was 100% sealed (unbreakable and 100% kept confidential). Once again, I don't condone nor endorse any of the illicit and immoral, unethical behaviors that the bad actors did at all. I am merely just explaining the concept and how it would have benefit marginalized people as a whole, as the lack of 'true' safe spaces we face in present day reality. In present day's reality, there is no such thing as 100% true confidentiality and privacy, there are always limits to it, and especially in the context of CTB or risk assessment. This means that if any entity, institution, or third party believes (whether it's true or not) that there is a danger to others or oneself (moreso when it comes to CTB), they will be safer than sorry, which entails reporting said person's intentions to authorities by breaking confidentiality. This takes away any real safe space for those who wish to go on their own terms.
Also in one of Marc Antinatalist's videos (the video about "confidentiality"), he also mentions about the RCC having such practices (he was a former Christian before becoming an misotheist) and while he stated that he was on the path towards to becoming a priest himself (before he changed course and went to become misotheistic) he did understand and appreciate that concept as he believes that it would have benefited society as a whole. He states that since there is a lack of [true] confidentiality, there are people who have a lot of burdens and issues that are bottled up and cannot release them, leading to the person spiraling or getting worse over time. Therefore, if this same or similar concept was extended to society, especially for people with CTB ideation and such, it would certainly guarantee to reduce the amount of CTB ideation, CTB attempts (even those that result in failure), and generally less persecution and harassment of those with CTB ideation.
Other examples through marginalized groups:
Throughout history, there has been marginalized groups throughout them, which at points through even the 20th century and into the 21st century, there are people who are in the fringes of society, minorities, LGBTQ people, women, and more. One of such examples in modern day (until the early 2010's or so) is where LGBTQ people or those who identify as such lack societal acceptance and lack true confidentiality for their identity and often have to remain in closets for perhaps decades and the undue burden and fear of social consequences (before society accepted them to be valid and ostracized those who are homophobic). It wasn't until society has socially tolerated and generally accepted LGBTQ community as legitimate and also socially ostracized those who were homophobic that the LGBTQ had a safe community. In present day, they now have more spaces than they did from earlier times in the last century or turn of the century. When discussing their plights and among those closed groups, they found camaraderie and acceptance within their safe place and since they have 100% confidentiality as well as societal's shielding (in general, but not all since there are still quite a lot of bigots and homophobic actors even out there), they managed to thrive and have established their vision as well as their stance compared to decades ago.
A good example of this is when it comes to workers' rights and nowadays with many legal protections for those who are informants and whistle-blowers. They are legally protected from retaliation, and even if true confidentiality wasn't truly there, there are many protections in place where the whistle-blower will not be punished and is not only legally protected but also socially sanctioned from ostracization (not always, but generally true). When various whistle-blowers come forth to speak out against bad policies, bad actors, and bad (sometimes even dangerous) practices, they would be able to do so without fear of their livelihood, their lives, and other unwanted consequences (legally, financially, socially, etc.).
The same could be said for people with various forms of disability (both physical and psychological). Throughout history, there were groups that deviated from society (depending on the time and the society in which said individual(s) reside in), and they were treated poorly. They didn't have safe spaces or organizations that represented them and more often than not were discriminated against and their secrets were weaponized against them either through ostracization, violation of their wishes, and even harassment and bullying. However, throughout history and time when more and more awareness are brought up and programs allowed confidentiality and a real safe space for them, it allowed them to have a sense of community, unity, and peace knowing that their secrets were safe and at least accepted, not just repressed and bottled down. There are many more examples of various marginalized groups due to lack of confidentiality for their plight, but later tolerated and perhaps even thrived as a result of having those true safe spaces, but these are prominent ones.
Using SaSu (our community here) as a case example:
This megathread would feel like it's missing a major point without the mention of our own community, SaSu. SaSu originated from Reddit way back in the mid 2010's or so, all the way up until Reddit shut it down (censorship) and as a result, other subreddit sprung up to take it's place, but more importantly, this platform SaSu, independent of Reddit showed up. Founded in March 2018, SaSu was considered a safe space, but even moreso, better than almost all other existing pro-choice platforms that allowed free speech, no censorship of the topic (about CTB, death, RTD, and similar topics), and more importantly the discussion of methods (which most other pro-choice spaces do NOT offer, mostly for liability reasons). Since there is true confidentiality and no censorship of CTB discussion and methods, most people here are able to express their real ideation and thoughts of CTB without fear of persecution and other consequences that they otherwise would have faced in other settings and spaces. What and where is true confidentiality in SaSu? When SaSu was founded that was one of the core principles that it was founded on and the original founders really upheld such values, which has allowed SaSu to thrive as a safe space of true confidentiality when it comes to discussion of CTB ideation, methods, CTB planning, and other similar socially taboo topics.
So as a result of this platform existing, it actually benefited society in a way that many prohibitionists, preventionists, pro-lifers will never admit nor acknowledge. It prevented people who otherwise may act out impulsively (more often than not, failing their attempt and being in a worse situation than before the attempt), and also offered a place where 'true' confidentiality when it comes to topics of CTB, RTD, CTB ideation, CTB planning, and CTB methods discussion. This allows people who feel trapped or otherwise frustrated with sentience to be able to truly express themselves in ways that they would otherwise not be able to in other spaces or even in real life. Therefore, there are likely fewer people who would attempt CTB or even think about CTB as much when they have an outlet to safely express their true thoughts without fear of being persecuted, sent away, detained, locked up against their will, or other unwanted repercussions. In a sense, SaSu is a way to prevent (impulsive) CTBs and also help those who may be considering brutal means to reconsider or at least choose a less disruptive means to exit (perhaps even considering more peaceful methods such as SN, inert gases, and/or other means, rather than being solely limited to brutal means of exit).
How true confidentiality may benefit society:
There are various ways in which true confidentiality may benefit society especially when there are would be people who could unload their burdens and perhaps some of the worst atrocities in the human world could still be prevented (or higher chance of being prevented) if the would be bad actors could confess their ideas without fear of consequences and not be treated as a criminal (before they commit a real crime). Of course, I will state that true confidentiality may NOT always stop ALL bad actors and sure, there will always be some bad actors, but at least there may be fewer bad actors and fewer CTBs if people know they can speak their most sensitive and vulnerable thoughts, information with 100% guaranty of confidentiality with NO limits or exceptions. While some may still CTB regardless, it will certainly prevent those who would have CTB'd because nobody heard their true thoughts out because of the fear of repercussions (being sent away, locked up, detained against their will, etc.).
Back to the point about bad actors though, not just those who are only a danger to themselves. If those bad actors was able to voice their plans, but assuming that would be perpetrators of mass violence was able to vent and express their things safely, without repercussions (legal, social, etc. as they have yet to commit any real crime by then, or even if the law changed to exempt them from being legally punished before they committed the act), then perhaps they might just be talked down or abandon their carnage instead. This would be an ideal win-win situation as both society is spared carnage, but also the would be prepetrator would be able to express themselves freely without repercussions and at least have their voice heard, acknowledged. Again, while this is theoretical and whether it is practical or not is another issue altogether; but for now, I'm merely bringing the concept in theory as food for thought.
So in current day society as it stands, those who are deemed a threat to themselves or even others are already treated as criminals and terrible individual(s) before they even act, and this preemptive judgment as well as punishment (before the act) only drives those suffering further underground. Even assuming that those would be perpetrators hide well (or as well as they could), they bottle up their resentment further (not even revealing to people what they are really planning) resulting in one snap carnage that devastates innocent people and other unwilling participants. That results in a lose-lose situation, not just for the then perpetrator, but also for all the innocent people. Even worse yet, there would then be a call for further scrutiny, tighter scoping and profiling of potential red flags, and other erosions of privacy, creating a continuous paternalistic and tyrannical feedback loop, but I digress…
Conclusion:
As it stands in present day society, due to the lack of [true] confidentiality, many people who otherwise might not have CTB, acted out, or did things end up suppressing their own angst thoughts, and other burdens, thus one day potentially exploding and lashing out. Thus is the consequence of a society that doesn't honor true confidentiality and privacy with more and more draconian, invasive, paternalistic, and tyrannical policy being pushed throughout the passage of time. Such consequences then result in people lamenting the outcome (carnage, horror, suffering, and damages to unwilling participants), then virtue signaling (most people do) and then asking for more security and protection, further fueling the paternalistic and invasive practices that are present in modern day. If we as a society want to actually improve things, then there must be safe spaces where 'true' confidentiality exists in order for those who otherwise would not speak for fear of punishment, repercussions, and unwanted consequences to be able to speak freely.
