Medication damage?

[hunter_lewis]

That's the reason I refused benzos and antidepressants for years-because of the risk of damage. Now I am taking an antidepressant for chronic pain and it makes me feel like a failure-I now have to take the very thing I avoided for years! I hate it!

 

[ThinkingAboutThis]

That's the vilest thing about benzodiazepine withdrawal; it doesn't ease off a day at a time so you can think, hey, today I'm feeling rubbish but tomorrow I'll feel less bad. It literally follows no pattern but comes and goes and stays as it chooses.

You can have a slightly less awful day then the next day is like being hit by a shovel and that can then set in for days and nights with nausea, anxiety and black fear like you've never known.

They don't write any of this in the leaflet in the box

No, they don't. And they don't write that it can take years to feel any better. The guideline is to taper down slowly to miinimize "discomfort", but even tapering down slowly is not a shield against some extremely horrific symptoms that come and go for months on end.
The trouble with this class of drug is that both doctors and patients are trained to interpret post-withdrawal symptoms as a return of the anxiety disorder i.e. needing more "medication". And since these are medicinally legitimized, nobody ever looks at it as a withdrawal issue early on. By the time a patient (usually always a patient) catches that something is really wrong, it ends up being too late to avoid long-term agony.

 

[Dor]

That's the reason I refused benzos and antidepressants for years-because of the risk of damage. Now I am taking an antidepressant for chronic pain and it makes me feel like a failure-I now have to take the very thing I avoided for years! I hate it!

Antidepressants aren't guaranteed to damage you, however it seems hit or miss when it comes to tolerability of it, some get no side effects at all while others get severe long lasting ones. If it's working and you're not having side effects then I'd say keep taking it, I mean if you're on the verge of suicide what do you have to lose?

 

[ThinkingAboutThis]

That's the reason I refused benzos and antidepressants for years-because of the risk of damage. Now I am taking an antidepressant for chronic pain and it makes me feel like a failure-I now have to take the very thing I avoided for years! I hate it!

Please don't feel like a failure. Antidepressants can be very succesffuly tapered off at a very slow rate (like 5% a month). The liability aspect is less than with the benzos, so the doctors are not going to go berserk if you are tapering off an antidepressant at 5% a month like they do if you taper off a benzo at 5% a month. Antidepressants are also not controlled substances, so the doctors won't feel pressured to see you off because they're afraid of liability. My anger against the antidepressant is that it actually masked the depression I was getting from a benzo, but it did nowhere near the amount of damage that benzo did. Not even close. I'd still be working if I'd stayed on an anti-depressant only. Not that I like them, but that's a fact.

 

[JustAboutDone]

No, they don't. And they don't write that it can take years to feel any better. The guideline is to taper down slowly to miinimize "discomfort", but even tapering down slowly is not a shield against some extremely horrific symptoms that come and go for months on end.
The trouble with this class of drug is that both doctors and patients are trained to interpret post-withdrawal symptoms as a return of the anxiety disorder i.e. needing more "medication". And since these are medicinally legitimized, nobody ever looks at it as a withdrawal issue early on. By the time a patient (usually always a patient) catches that something is really wrong, it ends up being too late to avoid long-term agony.

Hi Thinking,

I really feel for you ending up in this position. As you say, to a medical "professional" the withdrawal looks like a return of anxiety so they often re-medicate and the stuff is awful to stop.

I stopped my benzodiazepines in a week, tapered to 10mg then stopped and it was indescribable. For someone jittery with ptsd who can't even hear a door shut without freaking out, I sat for a fortnight watching non stop horror films because that at least was better than what my imagination was trying to do to me. Six months on, I still have out of nowhere bad days.

 

[ThinkingAboutThis]

Oh. I am sorry. 10mg is not something a person wants to stop from unless they'd been on it for only 2 days in their entire life. Sorry again. I understand about horror films. I watch true crime episodes for the same reason. At least this "anxiety" can latch on to something tangible.

 

[JustAboutDone]

Oh. I am sorry. 10mg is not something a person wants to stop from unless they'd been on it for only 2 days in their entire life. Sorry again. I understand about horror films. I watch true crime episodes for the same reason. At least this "anxiety" can latch on to something tangible.

Yes! That's exactly it; it's a "real" feed for the sick black dread feeling rather than having nothing.

As for stopping from 10mg that was my decision - not the wisest but I thought it's now or never.

 

[hunter_lewis]

Please don't feel like a failure. Antidepressants can be very succesffuly tapered off at a very slow rate (like 5% a month). The liability aspect is less than with the benzos, so the doctors are not going to go berserk if you are tapering off an antidepressant at 5% a month like they do if you taper off a benzo at 5% a month. Antidepressants are also not controlled substances, so the doctors won't feel pressured to see you off because they're afraid of liability. My anger against the antidepressant is that it actually masked the depression I was getting from a benzo, but it did nowhere near the amount of damage that benzo did. Not even close. I'd still be working if I'd stayed on an anti-depressant only. Not that I like them, but that's a fact.

thank you, that is very sweet of you!

 

[Dor]

I've seen some horror videos of people weaning of benzos on youtube, they looked like they had severe parkinsons, and it wasn't like it was their first week of weaning of, oh no, for one of them it was like the seventh month.

If your doctor prescribes it for you for more than a period of two weeks I'd consider another doctor. I think benzos have a use as a temporary course of action for acute cases, like extreme anxiety or insomnia.

 

[ThinkingAboutThis]

Yes! That's exactly it; it's a "real" feed for the sick black dread feeling rather than having nothing.

As for stopping from 10mg that was my decision - not the wisest but I thought it's now or never.

Congratulations on doing it. It's a brave move. I had managed down to an equivalent of 7.5mg. For a brief time a few years back, I was on an equivalent of 27.5mg. Got down to 22.5mg equivalent by the end of that year. Then to 15mg equivalent by the end of that year. Then to 7.5mg by the end of the last year. It is a slow process, indeed.

 

[JustAboutDone]

Congratulations on doing it. It's a brave move. I had managed down to an equivalent of 7.5mg. For a brief time a few years back, I was on an equivalent of 27.5mg. Got down to 22.5mg equivalent by the end of that year. Then to 15mg equivalent by the end of that year. Then to 7.5mg by the end of the last year. It is a slow process, indeed.

You are doing so well, keep at it, you will get there. Benzos should be renamed life stealers

 

[BlackDragonof1989]

I know my advice is amateur and hit-or-miss at best, but please look into high-dose niacin and vitamin C and fish oil and maybe even dxm *yes cough syrup I use the robotussin pills though* to help and epsom salt bath soaks <3 These help me on days I really am hurting but sometimes make me manic so be careful <3 I usually take between two and six grams of just ascorbic acid vitamin C a day and at least a couple grams of fish oil with maybe between 500 mg to 1,000 mg EPA and DHA respectful, and a multi and vitamin D. DXM days I take between 150 to 300 mg but anything about 150 I get a hangover the next day sort of but it's a fun bit of respite but it's all temperamental depending on if you metabolize it well, I usually have to take 125 to 150 mg diphenhydramine for sleep at night and too much of that I can become quite depressed as it dries me out, for lack of good science terms but it can be helpful for me.

Oh and I've been on risperdal like 2 mg but it zombified me I didn't like it but I was able to hold down a job better but I also wasn't drinking coffee then xD

I've hardly ever used benzos though so I can't help there I'm sorry <3 I have been on celexa only about 20 mg for about six months and it helped a little but I just missed my sexual function <3 I'm obviously still a mess but these things can help, epsom salt baths I'll usually buy like, Dr. Teal's and then soak an hour or two before bed but I don't use it every day too much and I get depressed and lethargic. And niacin usually between a gram to two grams if you flush hard don't panic take some benadryl <3 But it helps me detox a bit from dxm I feel and crap diet >< I drink soda and coffee every day hardly ever water <3 Good luck sorry I can't help more, watch it on DXM in case you decide to try it if you have an enzyme deficiency so start low like 80 mg if that <3 Good luck <3 Yes I'm clearly manic histrionic today but hey better than depressed have a good day <3

And I just more recently got into making stews with vegetables and like full fat beef or chicken but if I'm not feeling up to it I just eat fast food I know not good, feel bad for eating animals but I think it helps me feel better as I'm sure my blood sugar is not so good <3 But then again perhaps eating animal meat is ingesting suffering or lower vibrational energy but I don't really believe that but I try not to eat too much meat mostly just feel guilty over it and it's expensive after a point <3

 

[ThinkingAboutThis]

I've seen some horror videos of people weaning of benzos on youtube, they looked like they had severe parkinsons, and it wasn't like it was their first week of weaning of, oh no, for one of them it was like the seventh month.

If your doctor prescribes it for you for more than a period of two weeks I'd consider another doctor. I think benzos have a use as a temporary course of action for acute cases, like extreme anxiety or insomnia.

I manage my insomnia now with Valerian Root + melatonin combo, which is a big progress for me. Yes, benzos can worsen both anxiety and insomnia after a while, so it's important to figure out ways to sleep and ward off those panic attacks before the dependency hits. Once it does, life can become umanageable. Yes, 2 weeks is a good, healthy guideline. I'd be vary with Ativan (lorazepam) because that particular one can be very spiky and cause a lot of rebounds early on, which just feeds into the pre-existing anxiety and adds to more confusion down the road. It's the one that got me in trouble, so I don't have much love for it at all. It is very widely prescribed and is given as needed in low doses (0.5mg) as "safe", but this kind of dosing can backfire after a while, as well.

 

[ThinkingAboutThis]

Yes, thank you BlackDragonof1989. Fish oil is something that has helped me a lot. Thanks for the vitamin C suggestion. I also take absorbable Calcium with magnesium and a few others. I can no longer take diphenhydramine. Makes me too jumpy even at 25mg. I used to take it occasionally for sleep before this mess, and was not a problem at all to take. Now it is. I contribute it to my nervous system being very activated due to what benzos did to me long term. The adrenaline/cortisol went up over time, the fatigue got worse over time, etc. etc. This all contributed to agoraphobia and other severe problems. I'd been told by others tapering these meds that agoraphobia eventually lifts, but it is a very long and difficult process and a lot of is sort of a very long waiting game for the brain and nervous system to re-adapt to less of a drug in the system.

 

[hunter_lewis]

I know my advice is amateur and hit-or-miss at best, but please look into high-dose niacin and vitamin C and fish oil and maybe even dxm *yes cough syrup I use the robotussin pills though* to help and epsom salt bath soaks <3 These help me on days I really am hurting but sometimes make me manic so be careful <3 I usually take between two and six grams of just ascorbic acid vitamin C a day and at least a couple grams of fish oil with maybe between 500 mg to 1,000 mg EPA and DHA respectful, and a multi and vitamin D. DXM days I take between 150 to 300 mg but anything about 150 I get a hangover the next day sort of but it's a fun bit of respite but it's all temperamental depending on if you metabolize it well, I usually have to take 125 to 150 mg diphenhydramine for sleep at night and too much of that I can become quite depressed as it dries me out, for lack of good science terms but it can be helpful for me.

Oh and I've been on risperdal like 2 mg but it zombified me I didn't like it but I was able to hold down a job better but I also wasn't drinking coffee then xD

I've hardly ever used benzos though so I can't help there I'm sorry <3 I have been on celexa only about 20 mg for about six months and it helped a little but I just missed my sexual function <3 I'm obviously still a mess but these things can help, epsom salt baths I'll usually buy like, Dr. Teal's and then soak an hour or two before bed but I don't use it every day too much and I get depressed and lethargic. And niacin usually between a gram to two grams if you flush hard don't panic take some benadryl <3 But it helps me detox a bit from dxm I feel and crap diet >< I drink soda and coffee every day hardly ever water <3 Good luck sorry I can't help more, watch it on DXM in case you decide to try it if you have an enzyme deficiency so start low like 80 mg if that <3 Good luck <3 Yes I'm clearly manic histrionic today but hey better than depressed have a good day <3

And I just more recently got into making stews with vegetables and like full fat beef or chicken but if I'm not feeling up to it I just eat fast food I know not good, feel bad for eating animals but I think it helps me feel better as I'm sure my blood sugar is not so good <3 But then again perhaps eating animal meat is ingesting suffering or lower vibrational energy but I don't really believe that but I try not to eat too much meat mostly just feel guilty over it and it's expensive after a point <3

I don't think recommending DXM here is a good idea-it makes you high in large doses. It is much better to try herbal remedies such as St. John's Wort (read the leaflet carefully), passionflower, valerian and lavender. In my country they are all very popular.

 

[TheCrow]

@faex42
That was interesting. I used to take atypical antipsychotics, but like you mentioned, for insomnia. Seroquel. But I gained a TON of weight (like, I kept binging on carbs every night I gained like 100 lbs) and refused to take it anymore. They put me on a typical antipsychotic after having no effect from other atypicals. I take Thorazine now and yes I know it has the potential for PERMANENT side effects but it is literally the ONLY thing that has allowed me to seep. Typical sleeping meds do absolutely nothing for me and are not sedating; some actually made me manic (I'm bipolar)! Benadryl even in high doses (I've tried 200mg once in desperation) does nothing for me sedation-wise.

The only med I can say has truly screwed up my life is/was topamax (topiramate). I only took 75mg for about 12 months but it made me so. fucking. STUPID. I lost words, sentences, names, faces, streets, anything. I had to drop out of school because I was failing my classes (university level). It worked GREAT for my moods and migraines; but I eventually put my foot down and said I wouldn't take it anymore. I believe it has caused permanent brain damage because I used to have a great memory prior to taking it and now, while it's not as bad as when I was TAKING it, I have zero short term memory and a lot of my long term memory is gone too.

I used to take Seroquel, and also started eating more and gaining weight! I was not happy. I currently also take Topamax, been on it for years. I wonder if that's contributing to me being a dumbass, as you described.

 

[furax53]

anyway time that the pharmaceutical industry will make profit on our back he will gorget us with drugs and I'm sure that the effect of the drugs are not even test laboratory now it's the money that counts by the santer of the no one and to calm us down he puts us in chemical straitjackets

 

[your pathologist]

Anyone find it ironic that one if the main side effects of Antidepressants is suicidal thoughts

 

[Jen Erik]

I currently also take Topamax, been on it for years. I wonder if that's contributing to me being a dumbass, as you described.

haha no doubt, really.

When my psychiatrist prescribed it for me to treat trauma-related symptoms, he said, "oh it might make you into a dumb blond". RUDE! I'm not even blond.

It did really fuck me up, though. My memory was screwed up, I couldn't recall passwords that I use everyday for instance, I had trouble speaking because I couldn't find the right words, and it affected my gait – I began shuffling as I walked and I'd randomly fall down.

I stopped taking it after 2 weeks because the side effects were too disabling. After I stopped, everything returned to normal, though, so I'm grateful for that.

 

[Jen Erik]

Anyone find it ironic that one if the main side effects of Antidepressants is suicidal thoughts

It makes sense, though. One of the first effects of ADs that many people report, before any psychological improvement, is a boost of energy; so still feeling crappy but now having enough wherewithal to end it.

 

[JustAboutDone]

Anyone find it ironic that one if the main side effects of Antidepressants is suicidal thoughts

There is definitely a correlation for some people between starting or increasing their dose of antidepressants and committing suicide which is why anyone taking these mess should be closely monitored by a doc and not just left to their own devices

 

[TheCrow]

haha no doubt, really.

When my psychiatrist prescribed it for me to treat trauma-related symptoms, he said, "oh it might make you into a dumb blond". RUDE! I'm not even blond.

It did really fuck me up, though. My memory was screwed up, I couldn't recall passwords that I use everyday for instance, I had trouble speaking because I couldn't find the right words, and it affected my gait – I began shuffling as I walked and I'd randomly fall down.

I stopped taking it after 2 weeks because the side effects were too disabling. After I stopped, everything returned to normal, though, so I'm grateful for that.

Damn! Not good. Thank god everything returned to normal for you. Did your doc put you on another medication to treat your PTSD?
I find that when I talk, I struggle to find the right words, and I'm experiencing short-term memory loss. I've also ODed on heroin a few times, and I have anorexia that comes and goes, so altogether I think I have brain damage or something.

 

[JustAboutDone]

Damn! Not good. Thank god everything returned to normal for you. Did your doc put you on another medication to treat your PTSD?
I find that when I talk, I struggle to find the right words, and I'm experiencing short-term memory loss. I've also ODed on heroin a few times, and I have anorexia that comes and goes, so altogether I think I have brain damage or something.

Hi Crow :-)
As far as I understand, the toprimate side effects can ease off over time - making you feel more "all there". As for the anorexia, I'm so sorry xx that's a horrible battle to fight xxx if you can, at all, try and have protein where you can manage if you can stomach Brazil nuts, any nuts, cheese fish as your brain will you for it.
Sending you a hug

 

[TheCrow]

Hi Crow :-)
As far as I understand, the toprimate side effects can ease off over time - making you feel more "all there". As for the anorexia, I'm so sorry xx that's a horrible battle to fight xxx if you can, at all, try and have protein where you can manage if you can stomach Brazil nuts, any nuts, cheese fish as your brain will you for it.
Sending you a hug

Thank you. It really is a pain in the ass. It'll never go away, but it comes and goes. Sometimes it's just inactive, but it's always there, if that makes any sense. Thank you for the nice protein suggestion. I need to remember that bc I often find myself eating small portions of things I really like, like candy and chips.

 

[JustAboutDone]

Thank you. It really is a pain in the ass. It'll never go away, but it comes and goes. Sometimes it's just inactive, but it's always there, if that makes any sense. Thank you for the nice protein suggestion. I need to remember that bc I often find myself eating small portions of things I really like, like candy and chips.

I know exactly what you mean - and to be honest it's good that you're eating things you like, that's the most important thing :-)

 

[Jen Erik]

I think I have brain damage or something.

This is precisely the feeling I had, I was so worried. But once I stopped taking it, I was fine.

It really is a tough balancing act of sorts: there is so much evidence supporting Topamax as useful but the side effects blow. For PTSD especially it sounds so wonderful since it can help with re-experiencing, hyperarousal, and avoidance. I was disappointed I had to get off it.

Did your doc put you on another medication to treat your PTSD?

Yes. I did some research on my own and found baclofen, a very weak muscle relaxer, had shown promise for helping with hyperarousal symptoms but the research was sparse and mostly anecdotal. Fortunately for me, my psychiatrist had already been prescribing it to other patients, but to manage alcoholism and alcohol cravings. So he although he was unfamiliar with its use for PTSD, he was willing to prescribe it to me anyway, because the way it works – reducing overstimulation of the amygdala – is basically the same.

I had already been taking propranolol and gabapentin, so I think those two in combination with baclofen have been really helpful to me.

 

[TheCrow]

I know exactly what you mean - and to be honest it's good that you're eating things you like, that's the most important thing :-)

Awww. Ok, good. Thank you. xo

 

[TheCrow]

Yes. I did some research on my own and found baclofen, a very weak muscle relaxer, had shown promise for helping with hyperarousal symptoms
Nice. Yeah, sometimes we have to do the research and make a suggestion. That kinda sounds like Soma that I used to take. Multiple doctors prescibed it to me in AZ, but back here in my home state no one will.

I had already been taking propranolol and gabapentin, so I think those two in combination with baclofen have been really helpful to me.

Oh, good. I'm glad you found something that works. It can be so hard to find the right medicine or combination of things. I also take gabapentin. It's been a miracle drug for my CRPS. But I get dizzy when I sit up—like the blood is rushing to my head or away from my head or whatever. So I'm just careful and don't start walking until that's completely over. I've fallen a couple times, and I actually fainted when I was on it for anxiety a few years ago. In spite of that, it's been a real lifesaver.

 

[TheCrow]

Oh, good. I'm glad you found something that works. It can be so hard to find the right medicine or combination of things. I also take gabapentin. It's been a miracle drug for my CRPS. But I get dizzy when I sit up—like the blood is rushing to my head or away from my head or whatever. So I'm just careful and don't start walking until that's completely over. I've fallen a couple times, and I actually fainted when I was on it for anxiety a few years ago. In spite of that, it's been a real lifesaver.

Weird. The first part of my response is in what you said. I did that wrong.

 

[Its almost time]

I went through a manic episode and was sectioned and put on filth called Olanzapine. Went along with it for a month like a dickhead, Been severely depressed ever since, I am convinced they have destroyed my brain. Anyone else ever took these?