last one today: Creatine 'similar to ketamine' as anti-depressant

[LittleJem]

Hey

So there are some papers out there about creatine and some anecdotes on Reddit. I haven't tried it yet, some people on Reddit say it helps and others don't - so ymmv.

'Both clinical and preclinical evidence have demonstrated that creatine (N-aminoiminomethyl-N-methylglycine, a substrate of creatine kinase enzyme) improves mood, possibly by restoring brain energy levels and homeostasis [16–22]. Of note, creatine supplementation has been reported to improve depressive symptoms in 1–2 weeks of treatment in depressive patients, faster than the currently available antidepressants, which require 4–5 weeks to produce their therapeutic effects [19, 21].

Although it is supposed that the mechanisms underlying creatine-induced mood modulation involve the enhancement in energy storage, a second line of evidence has demonstrated direct neuromodulatory effects for creatine in neurotransmitter systems and intracellular targets [22–24]. It was recently shown by our group that the antidepressant-like effect of creatine in preclinical models is dependent on the modulation of the monoaminergic and glutamatergic systems and several intracellular pathways involved in neuronal plasticity and cell survival [16–18, 22, 25].'

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4425723/ The extract is from that paper.

And here is another paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6769464/

 

[summers]

Just a heads up, I have used several different brands of creatine. Some are much coarser / sandier than others. It doesn't really dissolve, even in hot liquids. If you mix it into food, like soup or eggs, they will have a sandy/gritty feel in the mouth. The best thing I have found to mix it in is protein shakes.

The least gritty brand I have found is the Walmart brand Equate Creatine Monohydrate 5g:

 

[LittleJem]

Just a heads up, I have used several different brands of creatine. Some are much coarser / sandier than others. It doesn't really dissolve, even in hot liquids. If you mix it into food, like soup or eggs, they will have a sandy/gritty feel in the mouth. The best thing I have found to mix it in is protein shakes.

The least gritty brand I have found is the Walmart brand Equate Creatine Monohydrate 5g:
View attachment 61449

what does it do for you?
Here's an extract from an article in Nature:

Depression prevalence was 42% higher among adults in the lowest quartile (0–0.26 g) compared to adults in the highest quartile (0.70–3.16 g) of creatine consumption. In comparison, depression prevalence among persons with low creatine intake mirrors what has been estimated among persons with chronic medical conditions such as Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus50. After controlling for demographic and lifestyle variables, the risk of screening positive for depression was 31% lower among adults in the highest, compared to the lowest, quartile of creatine consumption.

Dietary creatine intake and depression risk among U.S. adults - Translational Psychiatry

Creatine monohydrate is actively being researched for its antidepressant effects, yet little is known about the link between dietary creatine and depression risk. This study examines the association between dietary creatine and depression in U.S. adults, using data from the 2005 to 2012 National...

www.nature.com

https://www.joseph-levine.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/creatine-depression.pdf

 

[summers]

@LittleJem for me, I use it as a supplement for lifting weights. It supposedly improves recover times. Don't know how true this is, but it's cheap and easy to work into my day, so why not.

Never heard of any other benefits of creatine. If it works as an antidepressant, that's great. Again, supposedly it has to build up in your system to work. Takes about 7-10 days.

Using "supposedly" because a lot of what you hear about supplements is bro-science. That's when one guy who has an impressive physique makes claims, and everyone else thinks this person is some kind of expert on the topic. Most of the time, the person with the great physique works very hard, and has great genetics.

 

[LittleJem]

@threesummers I think they use it alongside anti-depressants, rather than stand alone. The reviews on Reddit like I said are mixed.

But it's another £20 on pills and supplements - I may as well try it ;)

 

[LittleJem]

So update - I had a 5g scoop this evening and instantly felt much better. But I don't know how long this will last for - everything seems to work for a day or two then stop! but will update on it.

 

[saltshaker]

So update - I had a 5g scoop this evening and instantly felt much better. But I don't know how long this will last for - everything seems to work for a day or two then stop! but will update on it.

Are you by any chance bipolar? I flip like this all the time, if it was really the creatine that's good though.

 

[Life.Journey.Unknown]

That's interesting. I was thinking of trying it as I'd heard of possible antidepressant effects.

A good article that I read about all the benefits of creatine is this one by TC Luoma

The Secret Benefits of Creatine Monohydrate

by TC Luoma Creatine is a Health Supplement Everyone should take creatine, even if their goal isn't to build mountains of muscle. Here's why and how to use it. Millions of people take multivitamins daily, despite mountains of evidence showing they don’t improve health very much. Most would be...

www.t-nation.com

 

[LittleJem]

@saltshaker I don't have that diagnosis. If I am Bipolar, it is just the Bipolar depression - I have read in some places that it is a thing to only have Bipolar depression!

When my mood changes it is always because of something I have taken - usually weed tbh, but then sometimes a supplement. Sometimes something works for me instantly or in an hour, like Modafinil can work for me in an hour or so and my mood improves.

The Taurine and Creatine were best the first time I took them, but then the studies are about taking them over many weeks so I should give them time to build also.

Are you by any chance bipolar? I flip like this all the time, if it was really the creatine that's good though.

Are you by any chance bipolar? I flip like this all the time, if it was really the creatine that's good though.

That's interesting. I was thinking of trying it as I'd heard of possible antidepressant effects.

A good article that I read about all the benefits of creatine is this one by TC Luoma

The Secret Benefits of Creatine Monohydrate

by TC Luoma Creatine is a Health Supplement Everyone should take creatine, even if their goal isn't to build mountains of muscle. Here's why and how to use it. Millions of people take multivitamins daily, despite mountains of evidence showing they don’t improve health very much. Most would be...

www.t-nation.com

That's a great article! Thanks for sharing

 

[Life.Journey.Unknown]

Reading this thread has also inspired me to look into trying vitamin d and magnesium.

I've heard of the many benefits of vitamin d. And also magnesium. From what I've read they both work together and magnesium helps with the absorption of vitamin d.

 

[wasteofspace22]

I've done ketamine and it did help my depression to be hone so

 

[GentleJerk]

I agree with the comments about nutrition playing a role in depression. So does the microbiome, gut health, and the presence certain pathogens.

I keep a whipped cream dispenser around in case depression hits really bad and I can't handle it. A couple of nangs can really stop depression in it's tracks, the key is moderation. I haven't used N2O in a long time but I know it works well for severe depression, and there's real science to it, but cbf finding it to put here rn. Just look it up if you don't believe me. Nitrous oxide is a really good ketamine substitute, although short lasting, the effect it has on lifting depression is similar to ketamine and lasts for a decent amount of time. Careful you don't get carried away though, it's rather more-ish. You don't wanna end up like Steve-O.