KNO3 works? or should I wait for SN?

[panda0342]

Got KNO3, Will it work? or wait for SN?

 

[brokenpromise]

The oral LD50 of potassium nitrate is between 2500 and 5000mg/kg at an average body weight in the 82kg / 180lbs range would mean oral ingestion would be in the 410g range

While SN ld50 is about 150mg/kg

Most recommend doubling the ld50 value for assurance

Which would be 820g KNO3
Vs 24.6g NaNO2

So no KNO3 would not be feasible

However high doses of KNO3 will still cause methemoglobinemia i just don't recommend this because the amount needing ingesting is to high in successfully CTB is not likely because of this

 

[panda0342]

The oral LD50 of potassium nitrate is between 2500 and 5000mg/kg at an average body weight in the 82kg / 180lbs range would mean oral ingestion would be in the 410g range

While SN ld50 is about 150mg/kg

Most recommend doubling the ld50 value for assurance

Which would be 820g KNO3
Vs 24.6g NaNO2

So no KNO3 would not be feasible

However high doses of KNO3 will still cause methemoglobinemia

Read a few other threads talking about I.V method. I know KCl is very painful and shouldn't be tried unless as a last resort. Didn't know about KNO3. You are right, it's gotta be NaNO2.
Also, NaNO3 is available too. And I have easier access to KNO3 and NaNO3. Still waiting on someone to deliver some NaNO2.
Anyways, would you be so kind to tell me similar dosages for NaNO3 and KNO2?

 

[brokenpromise]

Read a few other threads talking about I.V method. I know KCl is very painful and shouldn't be tried unless as a last resort. Didn't know about KNO3. You are right, it's gotta be NaNO2.
Also, NaNO3 is available too. And I have easier access to KNO3 and NaNO3. Still waiting on someone to deliver some NaNO2.
Anyways, would you be so kind to tell me similar dosages for NaNO3 and KNO2?

SN can be produced through the thermal decomposition of NaNO3


2NaNO3 -> 2NaNO2 + O2

61.59g of NaNO3
Starts to decompose at 380c to NaNO2
Once the reaction is complete (heating the sodium nitrate above 380c) your final yeild will be about 50g of SN though this can be a trick temperature to hit and going drastically above 600c will result in your NaNO2 to decompose to sodium oxide nitrogen dioxide and oxygen


The oral ld50 that I can find tested in rabbits for KNO2 is 102mg/kg at 82kg and doubling your looking at about 17g I'd still take that up to 25g as a surety following the same protocol as SN

 

[panda0342]

SN can be produced through the thermal decomposition of NaNO3


2NaNO3 -> 2NaNO2 + O2

61.59g of NaNO3
Starts to decompose at 380c to NaNO2
Once the reaction is complete (heating the sodium nitrate above 380) your final yeild will be about 50g of SN

The oral ld50 that I can find tested in rabbits for KNO2 is 102mg/kg at 82kg and doubling your looking at about 17g I'd still take that up to 25g as a surety following the same protocol as SN

Thanks you, PPH does recommend 25g. And a backup 25g drink, in case of vomiting.

I don't have access to any lab equipment. Any DIY or at-home method maybe. And what about the yield's purity.

 

[brokenpromise]

Thanks you, PPH does recommend 25g. And a backup 25g drink, in case of vomiting.

I don't have access to any lab equipment. Any DIY or at-home method maybe. And what about the yield's purity.

SN can also be produced without the use of labware using NaNO3 and hydrogen peroxide

2NaNO3 + H2O2 ——> 2NaNO2 + H20 + O2

Purity in this sense is more then pure enough if anything a slight excess of peroxide to ensure full conversion maybe 10-15ml (no more then this! As to much and you can convert NaNO2 back to nitrate this can be done with standard mason jars over the counter hydrogen peroxide and sodium nitrate :)

#### Materials and Reagents:
- Sodium nitrate (NaNO3)
- 3% hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) solution
- Distilled water
- Reaction vessel (beaker or flask)
- Heat source (like a hot plate)
- Stirring rod
- Filtration setup
- Protective gear (gloves, goggles)
- Scale for measurements

#### Calculations:
1. **Required Amount of NaNO3**: Assume a 60% yield for the reaction and purification.
- Molar mass of NaNO2 = 69 g/mol
- Desired amount of NaNO2 = 50 g
- Moles of NaNO2 = 50 g / 69 g/mol ≈ 0.725 mol
- Moles of NaNO3 needed = Moles of NaNO2 (1:1 ratio) = 0.725 mol
- Molar mass of NaNO3 = 85 g/mol
- Mass of NaNO3 = 0.725 mol × 85 g/mol ≈ 61.63 g
- Adjust for 60% yield: Required NaNO3 ≈ 61.63 g / 0.60 ≈ 102.72 g

2. **Estimating Volume of 3% H2O2**:
- Assume 1 mL of 3% H2O2 per gram of NaNO3 as a starting point.
- Volume of H2O2 ≈ 102.72 mL

#### Reaction Procedure:
1. **Dissolving NaNO3**:
- Weigh out approximately 102.72 g of NaNO3.
- Dissolve NaNO3 in a minimal amount of distilled water in a reaction vessel.

2. **Adding Hydrogen Peroxide**:
- Gradually add 102.72 mL of 3% H2O2 to the NaNO3 solution while stirring continuously.
- Allow the mixture to react for several hours, occasionally stirring.

3. **Evaporation and Crystallization**:
- Gently heat the solution to evaporate excess water and hydrogen peroxide, being careful not to decompose the NaNO2.
- Allow the solution to cool slowly to room temperature, then further in a refrigerator to encourage crystallization of NaNO2.

4. **Filtration and Drying**:
- Filter the crystallized NaNO2 from the solution.
- Wash the crystals with a small amount of cold distilled water.
- Dry the sodium nitrite crystals in a desiccator or a warm, dry place.


Lol my chemistry background is showing

 

[panda0342]

SN can also be produced without the use of labware using NaNO3 and hydrogen peroxide

2NaNO2 + H2O2 ——> 2NaNO2 + H20 + O2

Purity in this sense is more then pure enough if anything a slight excess of peroxide to ensure full conversion maybe 10-15ml (no more then this! As to much and you can convert NaNO2 back to nitrate this can be done with standard mason jars over the counter hydrogen peroxide and sodium nitrate :)

#### Materials and Reagents:
- Sodium nitrate (NaNO3)
- 3% hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) solution
- Distilled water
- Reaction vessel (beaker or flask)
- Heat source (like a hot plate)
- Stirring rod
- Filtration setup
- Protective gear (gloves, goggles)
- Scale for measurements

#### Calculations:
1. **Required Amount of NaNO3**: Assume a 60% yield for the reaction and purification.
- Molar mass of NaNO2 = 69 g/mol
- Desired amount of NaNO2 = 50 g
- Moles of NaNO2 = 50 g / 69 g/mol ≈ 0.725 mol
- Moles of NaNO3 needed = Moles of NaNO2 (1:1 ratio) = 0.725 mol
- Molar mass of NaNO3 = 85 g/mol
- Mass of NaNO3 = 0.725 mol × 85 g/mol ≈ 61.63 g
- Adjust for 60% yield: Required NaNO3 ≈ 61.63 g / 0.60 ≈ 102.72 g

2. **Estimating Volume of 3% H2O2**:
- Assume 1 mL of 3% H2O2 per gram of NaNO3 as a starting point.
- Volume of H2O2 ≈ 102.72 mL

#### Reaction Procedure:
1. **Dissolving NaNO3**:
- Weigh out approximately 102.72 g of NaNO3.
- Dissolve NaNO3 in a minimal amount of distilled water in a reaction vessel.

2. **Adding Hydrogen Peroxide**:
- Gradually add 102.72 mL of 3% H2O2 to the NaNO3 solution while stirring continuously.
- Allow the mixture to react for several hours, occasionally stirring.

3. **Evaporation and Crystallization**:
- Gently heat the solution to evaporate excess water and hydrogen peroxide, being careful not to decompose the NaNO2.
- Allow the solution to cool slowly to room temperature, then further in a refrigerator to encourage crystallization of NaNO2.

4. **Filtration and Drying**:
- Filter the crystallized NaNO2 from the solution.
- Wash the crystals with a small amount of cold distilled water.
- Dry the sodium nitrite crystals in a desiccator or a warm, dry place.


Lol my chemistry background is showing

Well thanks for the efforts. But still, i don't got such equipments neither do I possess any skills in chemistry :
But, if that temp method could work with stove fire, or maybe a ligher, and purity would be enough. I suppose, I could give it a try :)

 

[zel]

Well thanks for the efforts. But still, i don't got such equipments neither do I possess any skills in chemistry :
But, if that temp method could work with stove fire, or maybe a ligher, and purity would be enough. I suppose, I could give it a try :)

I'm no chemist, but the method prescribed above can definitely be done from home, where the only relatively unusual ingredient is the sodium nitrate. Luckily, you can even find these on a site as innocuous as Amazon with a high purity. If I have trouble acquiring SN from a vendor, I'll consider synthesizing it myself, tbh.

 

[panda0342]

I'm no chemist, but the method prescribed above can definitely be done from home, where the only relatively unusual ingredient is the sodium nitrate. Luckily, you can even find these on a site as innocuous as Amazon with a high purity. If I have trouble acquiring SN from a vendor, I'll consider synthesizing it myself, tbh.

I believe you zel, I guess i got scared of Materials paragraph. And sadly don't got the whole place to myself. It's a joint family system in Asia. And extraction seems like a process, that could take a day. So, I think, doable maye. Feasible, doesn't look like it :)

 

[brokenpromise]

Yah to put it in laymen's terms if you have sodium nitrate you mix the above amount with a little bit of water in a glass canning jar heck even a measuring cup add the prescribed amount of hydrogen peroxide which is found in any pharmacy pretty much in the world at 3% you wait the time I mentioned above then you bring it to a very low heat and evaporate off the liquid to be left with you SN crystal

It's actually easier then baking a cake or cookies lol

You want to use a very low heat the hydrogen peroxide in it will decompose to water and the water will evaporate off leaving you crystals

Sodium nitrate can be found most anywhere and is not regulated

 

[panda0342]

Yah to put it in laymen's terms if you have sodium nitrate you mix the above amount with a little bit of water in a glass canning jar heck even a measuring cup add the prescribed amount of hydrogen peroxide which is found in any pharmacy pretty much in the world at 3% you wait the time I mentioned above then you bring it to a very low heat and evaporate off the liquid to be left with you SN crystal

It's actually easier then baking a cake or cookies lol

You want to use a very low heat the hydrogen peroxide in it will decompose to water and the water will evaporate off leaving you crystals

Sodium nitrate can be found most anywhere and is not regulated

Thanks @brokenpromise @zel for the confidence. Will definitely try in a three or four. I'll try to make a video, and then post it here. Much love to both of you guys <3

 

[brokenpromise]

You also don't need to heat it you could say put it in your room in a pan and just put a fan on it to remove the liquid from the crystals :) infact it can all be done in a room or bathroom or in a closet it is very very easy :)

 

[panda0342]

You also don't need to heat it you could say put it in your room in a pan and just put a fan on it to remove the liquid from the crystals :) infact it can all be done in a room or bathroom or in a closet it is very very easy :)

I was thinking the same thing, keeping the lid off the container should evaporate water in a few hours, or maybe a day.
Respect

 

[zel]

Yah to put it in laymen's terms if you have sodium nitrate you mix the above amount with a little bit of water in a glass canning jar heck even a measuring cup add the prescribed amount of hydrogen peroxide which is found in any pharmacy pretty much in the world at 3% you wait the time I mentioned above then you bring it to a very low heat and evaporate off the liquid to be left with you SN crystal

It's actually easier then baking a cake or cookies lol

You want to use a very low heat the hydrogen peroxide in it will decompose to water and the water will evaporate off leaving you crystals

Sodium nitrate can be found most anywhere and is not regulated

It really makes me wonder why this isn't more well known and talked about, particularly as authorities catch on to the lethality of SN and its "associations."
I have to ask: If all this can be done with next to no formal chemistry background and the ingredients are readily available (less than $20 online, let's say), why are so many so skeptical of it? Is it because the notion of creating it yourself is intimidating - people are afraid of ending up with an impure product? Speaking of, how would you go about ensuring that the end product is thoroughly transmuted and consequently fit for CTB?

 

[brokenpromise]

Oh also you can do the same for potassium nitrate

Approximately 59.41g of KNO3.
Between 22 mL to 24 mL of 3% H2O2 (considering a 10-20% excess).

To yield KNO2 :)

 

[zel]

Thanks @brokenpromise @zel for the confidence. Will definitely try in a three or four. I'll try to make a video, and then post it here. Much love to both of you guys <3

You absolutely should! I think that we as a community should try to help and inform each other as much as possible about alternative means to the same desired result: safe and reliable options for CTB (so that they can make an informed choice). With all the unceasing and ubiquitous demands for the PMing of sources, I think this may be something we can get behind :) Best of luck

I will also post my progress and results in this method when I begin!

2NaNO2 + H2O2 ——> 2NaNO2 + H20 + O2

You mean 2NaNO3 + H202 —> , right?

Also, you (naturally) mention that the sodium nitrate will need to be dissolved in distilled water, but you mention it being a "minimal" level; does that mean it does not need to be fully saturated/dissolved in the solution? If not, why is that?

Thanks!

 

[brokenpromise]

It really makes me wonder why this isn't more well known and talked about, particularly as authorities catch on to the lethality of SN and its "associations."
I have to ask: If all this can be done with next to no formal chemistry background and the ingredients are readily available (less than $20 online, let's say), why are so many so skeptical of it? Is it because the notion of creating it yourself is intimidating - people are afraid of ending up with an impure product? Speaking of, how would you go about ensuring that the end product is thoroughly transmuted and consequently fit for CTB?

Honestly I'm not to sure to be fair I think a lot of people with depression and low self confidence who want to CTB aren't typically going to take the time to synthesize SN as Even if CTB is planned out the final act is often impulsive and convenient.

My procedure above is chemically correct
There may be a bit of NO3 left in solution but not enough to alter the effectiveness at double the LD50 for most people

For arguments sake if one wanted to purify the no2 from the no3

you could use differential crystallization by reducing the liquid down a bit you can concentrate the solution and then chill it in a freezer the NO3 will crystalize first out of solution and can be filtered off there is no easy way to tell when it starts to go from no3 to no2 so I mean you could concentrate chill grab the first little bit then further reduce and do it again but in honesty I feel it's a waste of time tbh at the amount of ingestion even if you modified the protocol from 25g to 30g

But to be fair I have not had the need to synth nitrites I have more then enough access to that and much much more effective with the work I do

But when I get in tomorrow I will follow the procedure to exact tee without purification and let you know my exact concentrations of nitrate to nitrite to make sure my procedure is perfectly sound :)

You absolutely should! I think that we as a community should try to help and inform each other as much as possible about alternative means to the same desired result: safe and reliable options for CTB (so that they can make an informed choice). With all the unceasing and ubiquitous demands for the PMing of sources, I think this may be something we can get behind :) Best of luck

I will also post my progress and results in this method when I begin!


You mean 2NaNO3 + H202 —> , right?

Also, you (naturally) mention that the sodium nitrate will need to be dissolved in distilled water, but you mention it being a "minimal" level; does that mean it does not need to be fully saturated/dissolved in the solution? If not, why is that?

Thanks!

You are absolutely correct I mistyped I will correct that

Further I would make it a saturated solution under minor heating or hot water as such the no crystals drop out at room temp

There are a few reasons for this

The first is reaction efficiency
Dissolving first in water increases the surface area of the reactant allowing more contact with the peroxide and ensuring a quicker and more complete reaction

Its a more controlled reaction mixing solid nitrate with peroxide could lead to a rapid more uncontrolled reaction

Uniform distribution
Having the nitrate in solution ensures a more uniform distribution of the reactant homogeneity is important for consistent predictability

And lastly temperature management it helps control the temperature which is critical in managing the decomposition of the peroxide or nitrite salt :)



Oh I should also mention if your nitrate salt is not lab grade and it's possibly used for fireworks or comes in a pill form (tiny round balls) it will likely contain a small amount of anti caking agent or a binder depending on if powdered or pilled if this is the case this your nitrate salt when in solution will be quite cloudy

It won't effect the final result by any means but if it bothers you a simple cotton ball stuffed into a funnel and poured through will work just fine in removing most the impurity's from your starting no3

 

[panda0342]

Oh also you can do the same for potassium nitrate

Approximately 59.41g of KNO3.
Between 22 mL to 24 mL of 3% H2O2 (considering a 10-20% excess).

To yield KNO2 :)

Add KNO2 is also good for CTB? Like It would be, as effective as NaNO2 and what about side effects and dosage. Because, Potassium Nitrate is readily available to everyone, as a fertilizer everywhere.

 

[brokenpromise]

Add KNO2 is also good for CTB? Like It would be, as effective as NaNO2 and what about side effects and dosage. Because, Potassium Nitrate is readily available to everyone, as a fertilizer everywhere.

Fertilizer grade nitrate will contain binders see my above mention near the bottom about removing said binders in my last post

The oral LD50 of potassium nitrite is about 200mg per kg so at 82kg body mass would be 16.4g x2 to ensure effective dosing I would say 32.8g of kno2 would be lethal

Following the same protocol as SN and having 2 glasses of 32.8g each of kno2 solution

 

[panda0342]

You absolutely should! I think that we as a community should try to help and inform each other as much as possible about alternative means to the same desired result: safe and reliable options for CTB (so that they can make an informed choice). With all the unceasing and ubiquitous demands for the PMing of sources, I think this may be something we can get behind :) Best of luck

I will also post my progress and results in this method when I begin!

Yeah, It is my first day here on SS. And I have seen tons of confusing posts. Will update this thread, once I synthesize, but gonna wait for @brokenpromise experiment. I think, he/she is a professional. And after his success. If I could get it to work. Than most definitely anyone can.

Fertilizer grade nitrate will contain binders see my above mention near the bottom about removing said binders in my last post

The oral LD50 of potassium nitrite is about 200mg per kg so at 82kg body mass would be 16.4g x2 to ensure effective dosing I would say 32.8g of kno2 would be lethal

Following the same protocol as SN and having 2 glasses of 32.8g each of kno2 solution

I just wish, I could kiss your hands right now. Here I was tired & distressed, been reading everything from the past 2 months. I tried, Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo, Yandex. Every resource i could find. And Wham, you gave me the clarity I needed. No other resource mentions KNO2's lethality, nor for any other compound.

If you have seen Marvel's Thor Ragnarok. Consider yourself Loki
@zel @brokenpromise I am a Software Engineer. And If you need any help with researching, testing or anything related to our community. Let me know, I'd like to take some some things on for SS.

 

[brokenpromise]

Yeah, It is my first day here on SS. And I have seen tons of confusing posts. Will update this thread, once I synthesize, but gonna wait for @brokenpromise experiment. I think, he/she is a professional. And after his success. If I could get it to work. Than most definitely anyone can.

I just wish, I could kiss your hands right now. Here I was tired & distressed, been reading everything from the past 2 months. I tried, Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo, Yandex. Every resource i could find. And Wham, you gave me the clarity I needed. No other resource mentions KNO2's lethality, nor for any other compound.

If you have seen Marvel's Thor Ragnarok. Consider yourself Loki

Thanks for the

Yeah, It is my first day here on SS. And I have seen tons of confusing posts. Will update this thread, once I synthesize, but gonna wait for @brokenpromise experiment. I think, he/she is a professional. And after his success. If I could get it to work. Than most definitely anyone can.

I just wish, I could kiss your hands right now. Here I was tired & distressed, been reading everything from the past 2 months. I tried, Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo, Yandex. Every resource i could find. And Wham, you gave me the clarity I needed. No other resource mentions KNO2's lethality, nor for any other compound.

If you have seen Marvel's Thor Ragnarok. Consider yourself Loki

lol thanks for the vote of confidence haha
And it's He :) I work in a field which has me handle and analyze and neutralize hazardous chemical and biological waste where I handle everything from a-z and more that unfortunately I can't discuss

I will setup the experiment up for
tomorrow

Potassium Nitrate Potassium Nitrite
Sodium Nitrate to Sodium Nitrite

And I will use lab grade nitrates though and otc peroxide and provide both of which I know I have some in drums at work

I can use ion chromatography to tell me what I'm left with and report back here the only reason I'm going to use lab grade nitrates though is because I don't want binders or caking agents to skew the conversion results the results will still be the same with binders or caking agents in a home setting it will just be easier for me to quantify in this way

 

[zel]

Yeah, It is my first day here on SS. And I have seen tons of confusing posts. Will update this thread, once I synthesize, but gonna wait for @brokenpromise experiment. I think, he/she is a professional. And after his success. If I could get it to work. Than most definitely anyone can.

I just wish, I could kiss your hands right now. Here I was tired & distressed, been reading everything from the past 2 months. I tried, Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo, Yandex. Every resource i could find. And Wham, you gave me the clarity I needed. No other resource mentions KNO2's lethality, nor for any other compound.

If you have seen Marvel's Thor Ragnarok. Consider yourself Loki
@zel @brokenpromise I am a Software Engineer. And If you need any help with researching, testing or anything related to our community. Let me know, I'd like to take some some things on for SS.

He's the expert here - though I am happy to help with any medically related questions, being in that field - so take this with a grain of salt (no pun intended): It seems that according to some sources I was able to dig up, the LD50 of the potassium nitrite is 235mg/kg, rather than 200mg/kg. So if you want to be a real stickler about it, I'd warn that this may be a YMMG situation and err on going on the upper end of your intended dosage.

I've also heard murmurs about KN being slightly more caustic/painful than SN? This may be nothing but misinformation though, and I cannot confirm that this is any more than the unwarranted speculation of randos. What I can say is that the mechanism of action in both cases (hypoxia secondary to methemeglobinemia) is absolutely the same, and that the KN is only marginally less toxic. As such, my working hypothesis is that there is little to no difference in the effect on the body (both nitrites after all), and unless there is some digestive irritation, the process would be just as smooth.

 

[brokenpromise]

He's the expert here - though I am happy to help with any medically related questions, being in that field - so take this with a grain of salt (no pun intended): It seems that according to some sources I was able to dig up, the LD50 of the potassium nitrite is 235mg/kg, rather than 200mg/kg. So if you want to be a real stickler about it, I'd warn that this may be a YMMG situation and err on going on the upper end of your intended dosage.

I've also heard murmurs about KN being slightly more caustic/painful than SN? This may be nothing but misinformation though, and I cannot confirm that this is any more than the unwarranted speculation of randos. What I can say is that the mechanism of action in both cases (hypoxia secondary to methemeglobinemia) is absolutely the same, and that the KN is only marginally less toxic. As such, my working hypothesis is that there is little to no difference in the effect on the body (both nitrites after all), and unless there is some digestive irritation, the process would be just as smooth.

Thanks for that I agree there can be a bit of conflictinon in the LD50 both on sources and also on animal rat vs rabbit

That said my calculations are ld50x2 and I would round up to the nearest gram


The one I find very interesting and I was just doing some research on is Cooper Sulfate toxicity same method of action, slightly more (26-30g) highly available and almost certainly irreversible (possible but quite unlikely in the short window)

Without interference same ctb time period reports of other ctb toxicity cases show with strong interference and meth blue treatments was still fatal after 2 days


The other thing I'm curious about is boofing or booting as some countries call it but rectal administration of a nitrite solution though probably a bit unpleasant feeling at first would be way faster uptake and absorption and inability to vomit said solution up

I dunno sorry OP I'm just rambling late night thought and tangents don't mean to high jack your thread but hopefully some one finds my ramblings useful :)
As a follow up the ld50 I pulled was from here https://www.deanza.edu/chemistry/documents/1c/msds/c6/PotassiumNitriteSol.pdf section 11 orl-rbt ld50 :)

In any case though from my prior research on other compound humans are incredibly fragile beings and quite often the effective ld50 I have seen to be lower then that of the oral rabbit ld50 in most poisoning cases I have read up on

In any case mileage may very :)

Take the ld50 amount times by your body weight in kg then double it and it will assuredly be more then enough.

 

[brokenpromise]

Yeah, It is my first day here on SS. And I have seen tons of confusing posts. Will update this thread, once I synthesize, but gonna wait for @brokenpromise experiment. I think, he/she is a professional. And after his success. If I could get it to work. Than most definitely anyone can.

I just wish, I could kiss your hands right now. Here I was tired & distressed, been reading everything from the past 2 months. I tried, Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo, Yandex. Every resource i could find. And Wham, you gave me the clarity I needed. No other resource mentions KNO2's lethality, nor for any other compound.

If you have seen Marvel's Thor Ragnarok. Consider yourself Loki
@zel @brokenpromise I am a Software Engineer. And If you need any help with researching, testing or anything related to our community. Let me know, I'd like to take some some things on for SS.

You know one thing I have been considering is a ardunio or similar ble interface to a pulse oximeter somthing like a BM1000 that could poll for data ever 30 seconds to record heart rate and SpO2 maybe a nodemcu with ble support that could host a captive portal for wifi login then it would push the readings to a site with a given username and allow people through the portal to document their ctb attempt with time stamps if they want this would not only give affirmative confirmation to the community on ctb but also provide real life data as to effectiveness of certain methods etc

What's your thoughts ? I was more so thinking of outsourcing it to a 3rd party developer in like India as I'm mostly a script kiddy who can just barely hack his way around code there is admittedly a morbid curiosity within me that also is rooted in scientific data

 

[Intoxicated]

SN can also be produced without the use of labware using NaNO3 and hydrogen peroxide

2NaNO3 + H2O2 ——> 2NaNO2 + H20 + O2

Where did you find out about that reaction, dear alchemist? It's not even balanced correctly, since you have 8 atoms of oxygen on the left side and only 7 atoms of oxygen on the right side.

#### Calculations:
1. **Required Amount of NaNO3**: Assume a 60% yield for the reaction and purification.
- Molar mass of NaNO2 = 69 g/mol
- Desired amount of NaNO2 = 50 g
- Moles of NaNO2 = 50 g / 69 g/mol ≈ 0.725 mol
- Moles of NaNO3 needed = Moles of NaNO2 (1:1 ratio) = 0.725 mol
- Molar mass of NaNO3 = 85 g/mol
- Mass of NaNO3 = 0.725 mol × 85 g/mol ≈ 61.63 g
- Adjust for 60% yield: Required NaNO3 ≈ 61.63 g / 0.60 ≈ 102.72 g

2. **Estimating Volume of 3% H2O2**:
- Assume 1 mL of 3% H2O2 per gram of NaNO3 as a starting point.
- Volume of H2O2 ≈ 102.72 mL

3% (mass) from 102.72 mL of H2O2 solution is nearly 3 g or 0.1 mol of H2O2.
0.725 mol of NaNO3 vs 0.1 mol of H2O2 doesn't nearly match your chemical equation.

Lol my chemistry background is showing

That looks like alchemy background, LMAO.

It really makes me wonder why this isn't more well known and talked about, particularly as authorities catch on to the lethality of SN and its "associations."
I have to ask: If all this can be done with next to no formal chemistry background and the ingredients are readily available (less than $20 online, let's say), why are so many so skeptical of it?

Don't worry, that's just a joke.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Yah to put it in laymen's terms if you have sodium nitrate you mix the above amount with a little bit of water in a glass canning jar heck even a measuring cup add the prescribed amount of hydrogen peroxide which is found in any pharmacy pretty much in the world at 3% you wait the time I mentioned above then you bring it to a very low heat and evaporate off the liquid to be left with you SN crystal

It's actually easier then baking a cake or cookies lol

You want to use a very low heat the hydrogen peroxide in it will decompose to water and the water will evaporate off leaving you crystals

Sodium nitrate can be found most anywhere and is not regulated

Do u know What is the shelf life of SN in a closed plastic bottle and also if the bottle is left open? A way to test purity of sn?

 

[brokenpromise]

Your absolutely correct and I made a mistake last night in my search for an alternative to thermal decomposition of sodium nitrate to nitrite let me work on this this morning and figure out a solution

I am human and I did say I would be testing this this morning to verify my results

 

[zel]

Where did you find out about that reaction, dear alchemist? It's not even balanced correctly, since you have 8 atoms of oxygen on the left side and only 7 atoms of oxygen on the right side.

Good point, I missed that while reading. Is there any particular reason it couldn't be rewritten as one molecule of each? I.e. NaNO3 + H202 —> NaNO2 + H20 + O2
I'm pretty sure that's balanced, but there may be some simple reason why it must be 2NaNO3 and 2NaNO2 that I'm unaware of, since I have little chemistry background.

 

[brokenpromise]

Yes

Good point, I missed that while reading. Is there any particular reason it couldn't be rewritten as one molecule of each? I.e. NaNO3 + H202 —> NaNO2 + H20 + O2
I'm pretty sure that's balanced, but there may be some simple reason why it must be 2NaNO3 and 2NaNO2 that I'm unaware of, since I have little chemistry background.

you are correct it is balanced

But the redox reaction is not necessarily going to yield the desired result

Im big enough man to realized I had make a prior mistake it happens this is why we run tests and experiments and im working on it.

Im doing a practical experiment now in real life and i will report on the results when possible

And when i get home this evening i will review all my procedures / math and verify / correct everything to ensure everything is factual and up to date my apologies for the prior misinformation I was doing math in my head and on my phone rather then on pen and paper and typing it out properly

 

[zel]

You know one thing I have been considering is a ardunio or similar ble interface to a pulse oximeter somthing like a BM1000 that could poll for data ever 30 seconds to record heart rate and SpO2 maybe a nodemcu with ble support that could host a captive portal for wifi login then it would push the readings to a site with a given username and allow people through the portal to document their ctb attempt with time stamps if they want this would not only give affirmative confirmation to the community on ctb but also provide real life data as to effectiveness of certain methods etc

What's your thoughts ? I was more so thinking of outsourcing it to a 3rd party developer in like India as I'm mostly a script kiddy who can just barely hack his way around code there is admittedly a morbid curiosity within me that also is rooted in scientific data

Heart rate would be a good indicator of the body's early response and detection of hypoxia. Using an ECG would be a strict upgrade diagnostically, though. It would allow for precise documentation of the onset of Vtach and of (more importantly) Vfib.

Also, I would ideally prefer if we could additionally measure MetHB in addition to SpO2 during the entire process for a more complete picture, as SpO2 is understood to be overestimated by pulse oximeters in cases of severe dyshemoglobinemia.

I will add that an automatic - assuming no one is with you - blood pressure cuff is absolutely a crucial vital to get here. We'd be able to calculate the MAP and would be an extremely helpful indicator of the onset of cardiogenic shock.

Not everyone will have access to an ideal setup though, so if not, that's alright. Some information is better than no information.

Yes

you are correct it is balanced

But the redox reaction is not necessarily going to yield the desired result

The other possibility is yielding NaO and HNO3
2 NaNO3 + H2O2 = 2 NaO + 2 HNO3
Though I would say is less likely

Im big enough man to realized I had make a prior mistake it happens this is why we run tests and experiments and im working on it.

Im doing a practical experiment now in real life and i will report on the results when possible

And when i get home this evening i will review all my procedures / math and verify / correct everything to ensure everything is factual and up to date my apologies for the prior misinformation I was doing math in my head and on my phone rather then on pen and paper and typing it out properly

No problem! I have confidence we'll get something figured out :)