just wish I could know for sure whether or not God exists

[wildflowers1996]

I know I can't. I don't think anything is going to convince me either way :(

 

[Malaria]

I used to feel this way but I don't anymore... I think I've just accepted that the only way I can know for sure is when I die.

 

[Pluto]

It exists or not depending on your definition of 'God'.

 

[Oliver]

I don't believe in God but I do think that there are phenomenons which science can not (yet) explain, and therefore I am open for the possibility of reincarnation/rebirth etc.

 

[UNvisible_]

I thought god existed until about a month ago. After realising how man made the concept of religion sounded after some research, it changed a lot for me. Though if god does exist, he didn't do a very good job with humanity and I personally can't find it in me to care about what happens after.

 

[whywere]

I believe in a higher power. Now if it is GOD or whatever, I still believe that there is so much that we will never know and/or understand. Like the age-old question, is there anything after this life? For me, yes, this is just one stop on a long journey. So, does GOD exist? Yes, in some form or another.

The one thing that always irritates me is organized religion where one is supposed to give money to obtain a place in heaven. I so dislike organized religion BUT I say my prayers ever night when I retire, as a GOD and organized religion are two different ideas.
Walter

 

[koruznikov]

I believe in a higher power. Whether it's true or not it's open for debate.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I'd feel easier in my mind if I knew for sure. I'm leaning more towards atheism. In fact- I'm hoping there isn't a God because I can't see them being good or fair looking at how this world was designed. I think I'm screwed if there is a God. They already realise what I think of them. I suppose in that sense, I'm not sure they'd treat me all that well- whether I suicide or not.

 

[Little_Suzy]

I have faith in everything. The more protection, the better! lol

 

[Otaku]

You're right. No one knows.

May i ask.. why the interest? Is religion a large part of your life?

 

[Unicr0n]

I don't believe in God but I do think that there are phenomenons which science can not (yet) explain, and therefore I am open for the possibility of reincarnation/rebirth etc.

Bruh I've experienced coincidences that are too coincidental to be a coincidence. When I first started thinking "there may be a god", Christian music played on my playlist the entire way home from bible study. 2000 songs, 8 songs played in that 30 minutes. What are the chances that occurred on that day at that time? Then there was the time one of my sculptures finally sold for $1600 on ebay after sitting there for over a year. Drove 12 hours to deliver it myself to save on shipping and fees. There was a voice in my head telling me not to touch that money yet. A few days later, I had car issues that totaled to $1500. What are the odds? There are so many 'coincidences' regarding gaining money and troubles that cost me money that I can't ignore it. Like bruh

I finally concluded that there was a god when I saw a video of this woman. She had two dogs. Her house's front door autolocks when she goes in. One day she has a stroke. That day, the door didn't close behind her. Her dogs were not trained to seek help, but they ran out that door and barked until someone came out. They led the neighbour back to the fallen lady. What are the chances that the door didn't close and lock behind her that day [never happened before], and that the dogs, who had never gotten training, knew exactly what to do? That made me believe. And you know what? Life has been easier since I've been trusting this god, whatever/whoever it may be.

 

[Tar22]

I understand this perfectly. I've thought so much about this, and the conclusion, nothing, no answer. It's not something we can know.

 

[InTheStars]

Few years ago I visited Medjugorje, famous for apparitions of Mary. There is a really tall statue of Jesus on cross made of bronze and from His right knee there are tiny drops of water coming out like whole day every day. People gather to collect it with tissues. I had an idea what if I rub few drops of that water on my painful neck. I did and as I took few steps back ohh my I was like struck with electricity down my spine, legs, arms. I was in shock what did just happen. That feeling of electricity running through my boddy lasted for about 10min. The pain in my neck was gone! So yeah God is real.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Few years ago I visited Medjugorje, famous for apparitions of Mary. There is a really tall statue of Jesus on cross made of bronze and from His right knee there are tiny drops of water coming out like whole day every day. People gather to collect it with tissues. I had an idea what if I rub few drops of that water on my painful neck. I did and as I took few steps back ohh my I was like struck with electricity down my spine, legs, arms. I was in shock what did just happen. That feeling of electricity running through my boddy lasted for about 10min. The pain in my neck was gone! So yeah God is real.

That's not proof of God being real. You would need to provide evidence of there being a causal relationship between your experiences and God, which you didn't (not that you even could to begin with since proving the existence of God is impossible due to it not being falsifiable). This is more likely just a causal illusion rather than proof of the existence of a God.

 

[anonymouswebuser]

I know I can't. I don't think anything is going to convince me either way :(

I like to believe that, and that I'll get to meet him after I die to ask him a bunch of questions
the concept of an afterlife and a higher being that's watching all the time, that knows everything comforts me a little, because it's terrifying to me to think that we're just living life so that when it's done there's nothing afterwards, it'd be unfair for those who lived a terrible life if they won't have another chance somewhere else. or that I'll never get to understand so many things I questioned, or never get to comprehended concepts that I can't now as a simple human
I don't like to think that I'll just go back into the nothingness I came from, I didn't suffer all this life for nothing I should at least have my questions answered
I guess we'll find out when we actually die, I hope I won't be disappointed

 

[InTheStars]

That's not proof of God being real. You would need to provide evidence of there being a causal relationship between your experiences and God, which you didn't (not that you even could to begin with since proving the existence of God is impossible due to it not being falsifiable). This is more likely just a causal illusion rather than proof of the existence of a God.

Well there is a Shroud of Turin, most studied piece of artefact. Just go google what it is. If the mankind can't make replica then it's Gods work.

 

[Lost in a Dream]

I believe in God and he's one sick bastard in my opinion. Only reason I know there is one is because there had to have been a first cause for everything at some point. Doesn't mean I believe in a particular religion's god, but in general I believe a demented creator designed our world just for kicks.

 

[longtheriverrun]

I've always viewed it through the lens that religion is an 'inalienable' domain that cannot be reduced to anything more. My belief in God is derived from how I view living 'religiously.' For me, first and foremost, religion is a way of life for me—a core part of how I approach my daily existence. Unless they're a philosopher, most religious people (that I've known) have always put that first rather than than engaging in skepticism or speculation about it—not out of ignorance, but out of a more structured understanding of what 'faith' and being religious truly mean

To me, 'Knowing' God revolves around an 'encounter'—an on-going relationship—rather than a scientifically theological approach to the propositions of the religion. In other words, the 'experience' of religion is a way of life for me that goes beyond the need for rational proofs. Faith isn't something that you just 'believe in'—it's something you practice. And, in the wake of that practice, I encounter God. My experiential knowledge is far more important to me than theoretical reasoning

I guess another way to look at it would be that theology is concerned with systematizing beliefs and propositions (i.e. dogmatic assent), while religion, as a way of life, is about practice, experience, and 'engagement' with the divine. The lived experience of faith does not, and should not, need to be reduced to a theoretical discourse—it is valid in its own right. I lean heavily into Christian mysticism, so that's why most of my thoughts here are centered around the experiential and subjective aspects of religious experience / life

I'm deriving most of this from the idea of 'language-games.' These [religious] concepts don't exactly aim to be empirically verifiable in the same way that scientific concepts are, rather, they are part of a 'different' set of practices, goals, understandings, etc. I believe that applying such strict empiricism to religion undermines its 'lived' significance—how it shapes the way people understand and interact with the world around them. It is not largely concerned with verifiable facts, but with 'ultimate' meaning, ethics, and the human experience / condition

Religion, and religious language, is its own 'sphere' of knowledge and experience with its own criteria for meaning and justification. Extreme skepticism and empiricism don't usually adequately or meaningfully address the existential and spiritual questions that religion engages with. Engaging with either risks undermining the entire ontological framework of religion—what makes it meaningful in its own right. Besides, a decent amount of these skeptics tend to be align with radical skepticism, which is just meaningless and goes nowhere in a discussion

 

[LifeIsASadist]

After all the terrible things life has done and how sadistic it is, I am confident there is no god and even if there is, hell is just getting thrown into a lake of fire and being eternally killed with no respawn while heaven you are an eternal drone with no free will.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Well there is a Shroud of Turin, most studied piece of artefact. Just go google what it is. If the mankind can't make replica then it's Gods work.

Again, that's not proof of the existence of God. We don't even know how it was made so I have no clue how you came to this conclusion. There is no evidence that God created it. As I've stated before, the existence of God isn't something that is even falsifiable anyway, thus it cannot be proven or disproven.

 

[InTheStars]

Again, that's not proof of the existence of God. We don't even know how it was made so I have no clue how you came to this conclusion. There is no evidence that God created it. As I've stated before, the existence of God isn't something that is even falsifiable anyway, thus it cannot be proven or disproven.

Ohh com on there is no one on this whole planet that can make same replica. It's Jesuses imprint on that cloth. It's not some random thing.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Ohh com on there is no one on this whole planet that can make same replica. It's Jesuses imprint on that cloth. It's not some random thing.

That doesn't mean anything nor is it proof of God existing. You are making an assumption based on your own beliefs and treating it as evidence.

 

[InTheStars]

That doesn't mean anything nor is it proof of God existing. You are making an assumption based on your own beliefs and treating it as evidence.

What do you believe does God exist or not?

 

[EvisceratedJester]

What do you believe does God exist or not?

I'm an agnostic atheist. This means that I don't believe in God, however, I'm also aware of the fact that there is no way to definitively prove if God exists or not. Think of it like not believing your friend when they claim that they are being mind-controlled by an invisible alien named Martin whenever they do shit you tell them not to. Sure, that's technically not falsifiable but you still don't believe them.

Either way, my religious beliefs (or lack thereof) are irrelevant since even if I was religious my point would still be the same. None of your "proofs" of the existence of God are proofs. They aren't solid evidence of anything, which isn't surprising since you can't even prove whether or not God exists due to it being unfalsifiable. A lot of your claims reflect your own biases more than anything else.

 

[InTheStars]

I'm an agnostic atheist. This means that I don't believe in God, however, I'm also aware of the fact that there is no way to definitively prove if God exists or not. Think of it like not believing your friend when they claim that they are being mind-controlled by an invisible alien named Martin whenever they do shit you tell them not to. Sure, that's technically not falsifiable but you still don't believe them.

Either way, my religious beliefs (or lack thereof) are irrelevant since even if I was religious my point would still be the same. None of your "proofs" of the existence of God are proofs. They aren't solid evidence of anything, which isn't surprising since you can't even prove whether or not God exists due to it being unfalsifiable. A lot of your claims reflect your own biases more than anything else.

You don't believe in God so that means you don't believe He exists. Can you prove He doesn't exist?

 

[TurboCharcha]

I agree with you. I think this is unknowable. In fact, can we really know anything? Maybe that we are: "I think, therefore I am" - Descartes

 

[EvisceratedJester]

You don't believe in God so that means you don't believe He exists. Can you prove He doesn't exist?

Did you even read my post or did you just see the word "atheist" and purposely ignore the whole "agnostic" part?

 

[InTheStars]

Did you even read my post or did you just see the word "atheist" and purposely ignore the whole "agnostic" part?

Sorry, God called...

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Sorry, God called...

Not to he rude, but I've had conversations with children that arguably more productive and interesting compared this conversation. You keep on making the same points over and over again making it clear that you aren't reading my posts.

I'm going to out you on 'ignore' now so don't bother responding to this post.

 

[longtheriverrun]

Not to he rude, but I've had conversations with children that arguably more productive and interesting compared this conversation. You keep on making the same points over and over again making it clear that you aren't reading my posts.

I'm going to out you on 'ignore' now so don't bother responding to this post.

To preface, I am not making an attempt to convince you that God 'exists' (whatever that means) and telling you that you should convert—I wholly respect whatever beliefs you want to have. However, I do want to clarify that most theistic arguments do not posit God as some sort of arbitrary, ad hoc claim (such as your analogy would make that out to be), but as a necessary explanation for fundamental aspects of reality. I think that assuming all unfalsifiable claims are equally irrational is a bit fallacious. Rational belief is not strictly contingent on falsifiability—because if it were, we would be 'forced' to dismiss a lot of widely accepted beliefs, such as the 'reality of the external world' or 'the continuity of the past,' neither of which can be empirically falsified. I'm not arguing that God should be wholly exempt from empirical evaluation / consideration, but rather that belief in God is best understood as a human response to metaphysical questions that naturalism struggles, or fails, to address—and not as an empirical claim

If I am not being mistaken with your position, you do not align with strict verificationism (and hopefully not radical skepticism). If so, then you cannot dismiss the belief in God as an isolated, baseless claim (once again, as your analogy suggests to me). Rather, it is the conclusion of rational arguments that attempt to explain existence, contingency, consciousness, and morality (primarily). That is the best way I can elucidate it without repeating word-for-word what I said in another post in this thread

To clarify what I mean further, consider hinge propositions—foundational beliefs that make reasoning / thought possible. Certain beliefs (dare I say, many) are not empirical hypotheses, but rather the pre-conditions of thought. We don't prove these beliefs in any real meaningful sense, nor do we really doubt them—since they are what make doubt and enquiry (inquiry? I forgot the American spelling) / examination possible in the first place

For many theists, the belief in God functions as a hinge proposition, and not some scientific hypothesis to be tested or falsified—rather, it is the ontological framework that structures existence, morality, and meaning itself. God is not usually viewed as another 'object' or 'thing' in reality, but as a necessary foundation that—in a way—gives reality coherence. This is mainly why I find phrases and questions that include something like 'the existence of God' in them to be misleading and, more often than not, pseudo-questions. It spawns a whole lot of meaningless debate that typically goes nowhere (I think I'm repeating what I said in a previous post)

Short version of that paragraph (because I feel like I repeat myself a lot): God is not simply another being among beings, or thing among other things, but that which makes 'reality intelligible'

I think the assumption that 'all' rational beliefs must have their basis in absolute empirical evidence pre-supposes a particular kind of epistemological framework—one that, itself, rests upon unprovable hinge propositions. Such a demand of empirical verification for any and everything leads to infinite regress. Speaking solely for myself, my belief is based on pre-analytic certainty. It isn't the result of pure inductive rationale, but a conviction that underpins my understanding of reality (thoughbeit, not wholly). I guess it can be be thought of similarly to the way we accept many fundamental logical principles and causal relationships because they underpin all meaningful discourse—not because we empirically verify them every single time

At this point, I have to apologize if my explanations and arguments have been rather messy and / or nebulous. Once again, my goal is not to prove God's 'existence,' but to hopefully shed some insight on why the belief in God is neither irrational nor arbitrary. Agnosticism, in my view, rests on a hinge proposition that privileges skepticism as the foundation of knowledge. And, unfortunately, I think it leads to pseudo-questions such as "is there evidence for the existence of God?" (repeating myself here) I think it is much better to frame such questions as "which foundational assumptions allow us to make the most sense of reality?"

One last point about hinge propositions here—that I feel is necessary to argue—is that those who argue that the belief in God is unlike other hinge propositions because people can function without 'it' often overlook that they themselves—even those who reject theism—tend to still rely on structures of thought that implicitly assume some kind of metaphysical basis (e.g. rationality, moral realism). In this case, it would be better to discuss "can someone's world-view remain 'coherent' without an 'ultimate' foundation for reality, morality, and meaning?" (of course, the person's positions on each is relative and unique to them)