We both agreed to end our conversation but then you continued it.
So you admit they are suicidal then? because you said before that they arent
There is a difference between someone wanting to die because they decided that life is genuinely not for them, and someone wanting to die because they are having a crisis.
Quote me on that, i dont recall saying anything like that
You said before "you never know :)" when I said that child birth is wrong and that not everyone should be allowed to have a child, so you're basically saying that child birth is always okay because there isn't a 100% chance that the life of the child will be bad and that it doesn't matter if the parents aren't the kind of people who are meant to be parents.
what? never said anything like it
You did.
Me: I've known many suicidal people who never had anything bad happejning to them, but they still want to die. Life isn't for everyone. For many suicidal people, just being alive alone is terrible enough.
You: Then these people should get euthanasia
Me: So people who never suffered in their lives should get euthanasia but people who suffered and decided after many years that they want to die, shouldn't get euthanasia?
I never said that. Quote me or link.
You did.
Me: Being able to have a child doesn't justify an incompetent person from forcing someeone into existence without thinking about it first to see if they are really meant to be a parent.
You: Sometimes you can't know until you try :)
This isnt what we were arguing before why does it matter now
Because you decided to continue or conversation.
Our conversation was about euthanesia not having kids
I don't remember who started bringing up child birth but the point still stands.
You kept bringing up childbirth for whatever reason
Ah right. I brought up childbirth because that is glorified in our brainwashed society death prison where everyone slaves away for most of their life just to be able to afford the bare minimum. That's why childbirdh is glorified and romanticized. It means more slaves for the government to use. That's why euthanasia isn't legalized, because it would allow their slaves from running away.
you dont know if it stays or not
Same goes to you. But I know that for the most people, depression truly never goes away. The suicidal tendencies may go, but the lack of a desire to live, would still be there.
but if they dont attempt its likely they recovered
It would mean that they found a way cope, not that they have recovered.
lol what makes someone truly suicidal then? how many years do you have to wait to be truly suicidal? Are you gatekeeping suicidality now
There is a difference between thinking about it rationally and deciding to ctb, and having a mental breakdown and wanting to die. The first example is a suicidal person. The second example is a person who needs help.
no, not because of a crisis
here is what it says
Nine out of ten people who attempt suicide and survive will not go on to die by suicide at a later date. This has been well-established in the suicidology literature.
it doesnt say because of a crisis.
Before, you also said: "This relatively good long-term survival rate is consistent with the observation that suicidal crises are often short-lives, even if there may be underlying, more chronic risk factors present that give rise to these crises".
Again what makes it a crisis vs true suicidality?
Someone who decides after years to ctb, is suicidal, as they have thought about it for a while. Someone who is having a mental breakdown and decides to ctb, is crying out for help.
You can be suicidal for 2 years, attempt suicide and then recover
True.
Will you consider that a crisis as well? is it true suicidality only when you cant recover?
No being suicidal for 2 years is not a crisis, that's actual suicidality.
well they lost suicidality so thats a good thing. They can live life not seeking suicide anymore
If they still have no desire to life, because of their depression, then it's more like a neutral thing.
9 out of 10 is a pretty big figure no? and most suicides are results of crises so the recovery is possible for the majority of people who attempt suicide because most suicides are imuslive
Well. Thankfully me and many people on this forum aren't thinking about it in a impulsive way.
Article Abstract Because this piece does not have an abstract, we have provided for your benefit the first 3 sentences of the full text. In clinical settings, one often thinks of suicidal ideation and behavior as following a somewhat linear trajectory. It stands to reason, the clinician often...
www.psychiatrist.com
However, most of the attempted suicides were impulsive (64.0%). Only a minority of attempters reported having a defined plan (13.8%) for the attempt.
Fair.
So yeah recovery is possible for most because most attempts are impulsive aka crisis attempts. Slam dunk!
I guess I should have said that recovery is possible for most people who attempted because they were crisis attempts and not planned-out attempts of people who have thought about it since years.
Oh and by he way, you havent included any data to support any of your arguments so far
I have, for all the animal species that have died out because of humanity. Also, I don't consider the data of "9 out of 10 people who attempted suicide never attempt suicide again" as valid, because as it said, those were crisis attempts, and not attempts of suicidal people who have planned it out and thought about it.
Go look up where you live and you will see a similar pattern
Like I said, depends on where you're from.
Do you? I was asking where it says that it includes the children who live in poverty, etc.
It includes everyone reporting symptoms. Its not financially segregated at all.
Where does it says that it includes children from every different financial household?
didnt say everyone allowed to do . Send quote or link.
Me: Being able to have a child doesn't justify an incompetent person from forcing someeone into existence without thinking about it first to see if they are really meant to be a parent
You: Sometimes you can't know until you try :)
USA, some do some dont. To generalize is a mistake
Same goes to you.
So why make up a stupid claim if you dont have any evidence for it?
Because you're the one who brought up a stupid claim without having any evidence for it.
ok so? Doesn't have to be parents fault what if they are bullied because of their identity
You said that you knew suicidal kids, so you should know, but I'm not gonna ask you for their reasons.
Then they want kids not out of a need for pleasure but they want more out of life.
Which is selfish.
Saying someone wants a kid out of pleasure is such a stupid thing.
Just like saying that child birth is a good thing and that everyone should be allowed to have children, is a stupid thing.
Having kids isnt a walk in the park
It's literally the parents who bring the child to existence against their will because they decided to do so. If someone can't handle children or doesn't care for them, then they shouldn't be parents. Caring for the child after bringing it into existence is the bare minimum.
No.
Do you remember what you experienced when you were 2?
I do.
how would you know what death is like?
Like I said, if it's anything like life before birth, then I don't care if I 100% know what death is like, I just know that it's more peaceful than life is.
Typical argument of an atheist. There is no reason to think that you arent more than just a brain.
Remove a person's brain and then ask them how they are doing.
Unless you can prove that we are only our brains and body there is no reason to assume that we cant experience or perceive death
Unless you can prove that we are more than our brains and body, there is no reason to assume that we can experience or perceive death. Remove a person's brain and they wouldn't be able to think, move, talk. They would be dead.
I said that in the context of parenting. Yeah you never know how good of a parent you will be unless you actually have kids lmao thats not controversial
My point is that not everyone should have the right to have children, just because they want to have children.
also you never know if a child is going to have a good life or not.
Which is why I said that bringing someone into existence puts them under the risks of all kinds of terrible things.
Nice anecdote, I have one too. Are we using anecdotes now to discuss things?
Sure.
No, you can create someone who cures cancer
The chance of that is pretty much impossible.
Thanks for proving my point. Yet you still are in the house? Why not die to not put yourself under the risk of a house fire?
My point is that you're always under risk no matter what.
People arent animals. We are advanced species
Nope. People aka humans are literally animals. Animals have emotions just like and I do, like things just like you and I do, and act different depending from person to person, just like you and I do. Humans share roughly 90 percent of their DNA with mice, dogs, cattle, and elephants, and the DNA of human beings and chimpanzees is 98 to 99% percent identical. Humans only appear as more special to you because our cerebral cortex is larger than in any other animal and responsible for higher thought process such as reasoning, abstract thinking, and decision thinking.
People are animals.
you sure sound like one now
Never.
child learns how to value things. Very good thing for the child
Suffering should never be a child's upbringing and teacher.
You're the one who lied about ending our conversation though.
humans are way more advanced than animals in case you didnt know
Humans are literally animals in case you didn't know, as I mentioned above.
to continue the bloodline
Knew it.
i am not pro adoption, you are
You are against adopting orphans?
quote me where i said everyone should be allowed to have kids
I mentioned it above.
No you did lol. We both agreed to the other user that we would end the conversation but then you continued the conversation.
Again you changed your mind, thanks for doing that
No I didn't.
That wasnt meant to be in regards to everyone having kids it meant to say that you never know how good of a paren you will be unless you have kids but I dont expect you to be good faith in this conversation. Again quote me on that or link it. You never know because children's life's aren't uniforms
That's what I mean though. You treat childbirth as this...game. "Hey, you never know, I might be a good parent or bad parent, I lack the ability to judge myself, but anyways lets bring a child into this world"
quote me where i said that
If you thought otherwise then youldn't be against restricting everyone's wish/desire to desire. Literally every time I brought up how euthanasia should be legalized because nobody asked to be born, you were like "No, I'm against that, recovery this, recovery that", ignoring that not everyone can recover and n
ot everyone wants to recover.
Yes really.
Nope honey you only told it to me very recently. Before you went all mad about having walk in euthanesia clinics
Yes, because you openly said that there is nothing wrong with forcing others into existence, but that the right to die should be restricted.
Our discussion started with regards to euthanesia clinics and accesibility of euthanesia.
Yeah.
You were very stubborn at first but later on admitted that actually my view is correct because you changed your view to confirm with mine
I never changed my view. I'm and always will be pro-choice lol. When our conversation started, I told you that I think that I respect everyone's genuine wish/decision to die, but that I would never tell someone to die, because that's someone who is pro death would do.
You on the other hand were like "Child birth? Beautiful thing, there is nothing wrong with forcing someone into existence, not everyone should have the right to die, and you should always force recovery down the throats of suicidal people".
you could have just admitted that in the beginning of the conversation
I didn't admit anything, did you?
You changed your stance on that
No I didn't.
I am glad you agree with my position
I'm not.
Gn.
Next time you start arguments with people actually think your positions through, it may help in the future
Same goes back to you.
And just so you know. A crisis can last years it would still be a crisis
Ok.
So unless you are going to describe what you mean by true suicidality
What I mean by it is thinking it through and then deciding to ctb. Not deciding to ctb because you're having a mental breakdown.
you dont have the capability to walk away either? youd rather just keep throwing back and forth "you did it"
dudes its an ignore button and like @mmikkee1 already pointed out, its not good on their mental health.
you seriously both need to find the ignore button and mutually walk away, or one of you needs to be the adult and just drop it, dont respond to a thing or else this isnt ever gonna stop.
but hey, its your guys' mental health on the line, not mine. enjoy the argument if you want but its not going to go anywhere lol
Yeah I'm done here. I thought this would be over when me and mmikkee1 agreed to end the conversation so I was confused when they decided to continue it:
DeaD
BatterY
: GET A FUCKING ROOM OR PM EACHOTHER, YOU'RE HIJACKING THE THREAD AND KEEPING IT AT THE TOP OF THE SUICIDE BOARD
mmikkee1: Ok @DeaD
BatterY
I'll stop responding thank you sir!
Me: @DeaD
BatterY
You're right, sorry.
mmikkee1: *continues conversation*