Venting It's impossible to care intrinsically about another person

[Saponification]

People only care about themselves. This much is obvious. But I'd go as far as to say that it's impossible to even think about another person.

People don't see the world for what it is, they merely project their vision onto the world. Their vision was, in turn, shaped by past experiences, emotional bruises and ego.

People fall in love with what they love about themselves, or what they wish they had in themselves. People only fall in love with mirrors. It's all projection.

People hate what others once hated about them. They internalized this hate and attach an intrinsical negative value to the characteristic that caused others to hate them. Thus, when people hate you they only hate you because they're imagining themselves as you. They're thinking about how they'd hate to be in your spot.

In this sense, love and hate are both bullshit. People are physically unable to love or hate you. Or think about you at all for that matter.

 

[FF777]

well that sucks..

 

[Saponification]

well that sucks..

It does. What's the point of being if nothing can truly validate your existence? If the universe is brutally indifferent? If other vessels are physically incapable of truly "seeing" eachother, because we're all fundamentally closed little ego systems? Isn't it the most pure suicide fuel?

 

[FF777]

Isn't it the most pure suicide fuel?

it is if you actually believe that.. are you sure you're not losing some logic in this convoluted way of thinking about it?.. seeing love/hate in that way just makes every one seem like a soulness robot or some thing.. but people have real souls and feelings and can love and hate..

i don't really appreciate murderers or rapists, but i've never had to murder or rape any one to be able to hate murderers or rapists..

 

[CTB Dream]

vnice cncpt sapon this knw ppl no undrstd no any allbtry abndn etc, this ppl all discnct this resn many pain sffr no hpnany, no slf no hlp

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think it's also about need fulfilment. We love those the most who are able to fulfil our needs I believe and, vice versa. The relationship is the most reciprocal when the majority of the experience feels effortless/ joyful.

We may never reach a stage where we know exactly what it's like to be them. We can however- get to a stage where we know someone so well- we can predict how they would feel about something. That's part of what makes a good friend- I found. They were already there when they knew I would need them in a difficult situation- for me and, vice versa.

Also- would you want someone to know absolutely everything about you? Including the things you are ashamed of? If there are any. Sometimes, we want to move on from trauma in life. Or, we feel the need to express certain negative traits in private. I actually think it might be weird if we all knew absolutely everything about one another.

I'm not even sure that would lead to love necessarily. It would demand an unconditional love from someone. Are your thoughts always pleasant? Aren't there some things you hold back from saying? Because you know it would upset people. Wouldn't their opinions on you change- if they could read exactly what you thought?

What if they have negative views about you? Would you continue to love them, knowing that? I'm not actually so sure that complete transparency would lead to more love. I think it would more likely lead to more irritation. More knowledge that we all have different needs that don't necessarily align.

You have to be so strong to hear the truth I think- if it's negative in some ways. I doubt I would have the resilience to know what people truly thought of me. It's been bad enough to just interpret it at times.

 

[Pluto]

 

[telekon]

this is really interesting. said in a less nihilistic tone, it might be worth putting in a psychology journal if it were true. needs to be studied to verify but I can see it.

I also find it impossible to care for others because you need to be okay to do that. I have to take care of myself first, I can't think about other people right now. And that makes me selfish.

 

[Saponification]

it is if you actually believe that.. are you sure you're not losing some logic in this convoluted way of thinking about it?.. seeing love/hate in that way just makes every one seem like a soulness robot or some thing.. but people have real souls and feelings and can love and hate..

i don't really appreciate murderers or rapists, but i've never had to murder or rape any one to be able to hate murderers or rapists..

If someone or a group of people literally causes you harm or is a perceived threat then of course you'd "hate" them. Which kind of explains the murderers and rapists thing.

I'm talking more about passionate hate for an individual. Especially when they haven't really hurt you so you don't know understand why you hate them. Because when you hate an individual all what's happening is that your ego feels threatened. Whether it's jealousy, them mirroring a part of yourself that you hate, them being like you but better... etc. In fact, after writing this paragraph I realize my hate argument needed a lot more elaboration.

Anyways the whole point is that as fundamentally egotistical beings we just can't truly "see" other people. Our brains can only project what we already feel about ourselves. We'll never exactly what another person sees or feels. When we "love" or "hate" we're just thinking about the effect that others have on our ego. It's depressing to think about it like this, but it's logical.

I think it's also about need fulfilment. We love those the most who are able to fulfil our needs I believe and, vice versa. The relationship is the most reciprocal when the majority of the experience feels effortless/ joyful.

We may never reach a stage where we know exactly what it's like to be them. We can however- get to a stage where we know someone so well- we can predict how they would feel about something. That's part of what makes a good friend- I found. They were already there when they knew I would need them in a difficult situation- for me and, vice versa.

Also- would you want someone to know absolutely everything about you? Including the things you are ashamed of? If there are any. Sometimes, we want to move on from trauma in life. Or, we feel the need to express certain negative traits in private. I actually think it might be weird if we all knew absolutely everything about one another.

I'm not even sure that would lead to love necessarily. It would demand an unconditional love from someone. Are your thoughts always pleasant? Aren't there some things you hold back from saying? Because you know it would upset people. Wouldn't their opinions on you change- if they could read exactly what you thought?

What if they have negative views about you? Would you continue to love them, knowing that? I'm not actually so sure that complete transparency would lead to more love. I think it would more likely lead to more irritation. More knowledge that we all have different needs that don't necessarily align.

You have to be so strong to hear the truth I think- if it's negative in some ways. I doubt I would have the resilience to know what people truly thought of me. It's been bad enough to just interpret it at times.

I understand that this is simply how things need to be—we create an identity that we feel comfortable with, we adapt, so that we may express only select part of ourselves. But for me it's just depressing that we merely fall in love with avatars.

But the self is an illusion anyways. We constantly change and adapt to the circumstances and there's nothing about our vessel that makes us special or unique. So I guess even if unconditional love were to exist, there's no "I" or "you" because what defines "you", really?

 

[notreallybored]

In this sense, love and hate are both bullshit. People are physically unable to love or hate you. Or think about you at all for that matter.

ב''ה,

This is actually the essence of the (Orthodox) Jewish worldview. Of course the Lacanian objet then becomes G-d because He didn't make anything else to actually have a lasting relationship with (aside from whatever heterosexual marital bliss and other smooth social sailing He might bless someone with).

Just saying the it's literally all mirrors at best is kind of baked into that very long-lived school of thought while Europe of course took the opposite route in kind of elevating the condition of romantic love.

(Both perspectives tend to attempt to lay some claim to the go forth and multiply thing originally written in Hebrew and arguably in genetics if that existed before that, given the general popularity of heterosexuality. Anyway, Judaism kind of gets it from throwing in the originally Persian? story of Job as is celebrated because if G-d decides to delete your everything for no reason and then give you completely different everything, smile, the scholars decided that epitomized the worldview.)